Jason Lange: Men’s Groups, Healthy Masculinity, and the Path to Deeper Purpose | Control or Be Controlled

Host (Control or Be Controlled): And welcome back to another exciting episode on the show, Control or Be Controlled podcast designed to help you start thinking differently and take control of your life. And as always, I remain your host, Darlington. Our guest today is Jason Lange. Jason, welcome to the show.

Jason Lange: Thanks so much for having me. Excited to be here.

Host (Control or Be Controlled): Okay, so our guest today is a men's embodiment coach, group facilitator, and evolutionary guide who helps men develop deeper clarity around their purpose, relationships, and the way they show up in the world. Our guest today is a Certified no More Mr. Nice Guy Coach and has studied with leaders including John Wineland, Dr. Robert Glover, John Poroshi, Tripp Lenya, and Ken Wilbur. Once again, Jason, welcome to the show.

Jason Lange: Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here and excited to get into it.

Host (Control or Be Controlled): Okay, so let's start with your story, your own story. What was happening in your own life when you first realized that you needed to explore men's work?

Jason Lange: Yeah, my journey to men's work really came through my own personal pain and struggles. So it all really began for me when I was a teenager and as I started kind of getting outside of the house, outside of my family sphere, and in my case, I'm heterosexual, so hit puberty and found myself very attracted to girls, but found myself absolutely unable to connect with them, my body would lock up, I'd get anxious, I'd freeze, I would ruminate very heavily in my head. And as this continued and progressed, it just didn't fix itself. And simultaneously, even as I started to build relationships with other men, I noticed they connected to each other differently than I did. Mainly they horse played, they touched each other, they wrestled, and I simply did not have that impulse in my body. And really where this all took me is it all just continued into my 20s and I was a virgin. I felt a lot of shame around it. I started numbing with alcohol, food, and porn and felt so overwhelmingly stuck that I just realized I need help. I need to do something. And that kind of kicked me off on a journey of personal growth and transformation that eventually led me, when I was 26, into my first men's group and doing my first somatic work, specifically in the container of men. And that, more than anything else, changed my experience of my body, my emotions, and how I could connect with other people.

Host (Control or Be Controlled): Okay, thank you so much. A lot of men are actually in that same situation. So you talk about loneliness and struggling to create romantic relationships. So what did those struggles teach you about the way you are showing up as a man?

Jason Lange: Yeah, what it really started to show me was, I think I, like a lot of men, was actually completely touch deprived in my life. My family, it turns out, just had no physical or emotional connection. There was no touch, there was no real talking. There was no being present with each other. And that impacted my nervous system. So two things started to happen. One, I didn't have touch or connection anywhere. So mind, body, body was constantly in a stressed out state. And like a lot of men, then where I found the only place I thought I could get it would be from a woman. So it put a lot of pressure on sex and sexuality as a place for me to get touch. So that was driving thing, and that creates a lot of stickiness in all kinds of ways we could talk about. But then the other thing was because my body had never experienced it, when I did start getting into situations where touch was available to me, it actually made my body uncomfortable. I didn't know how to receive it. I would bristle, I would brace when I would receive touch or connection or affection. So I had to do a lot of work to start to tease apart this kind of wounded inner child inside of me that was showing up in all my attempts to relate with women as an adult. And it turns out, you know, women don't want to relate to a little baby. It's kind of a crass way to put it, but they want to relate to an adult. And my little inner child was coming out, trying to get its touch needs met, and it just wasn't very attractive. So I had to go off and do my inner work and get connected to this part of me and learn to integrate it so that I could show up in a much more grounded, present and available way, which is what so many women are actually longing for from men these days.

Host (Control or Be Controlled): All right, Jason, so for those who don't know what a men's group is, who have never experienced one, what happens inside a men's group?

Jason Lange: Yeah, there's lots of different ways to run a men's group, but essentially it's a, you know, probably six to 12 men who get together with some regularity on a set schedule with the intention of going deeper into them, their lives, feeling what they need to feel in their bodies, and holding each other accountable for what they most want to create in life. So oftentimes, the types of men's groups I lead have men circle up, get together, do some kind of practice to actually get present. That could be meditation, that could be movement, that could be breath work. And then each man in the group takes some time to check in with what's going on in the moment for them and in their lives. Where are they in pain? What kind of tension are they carrying? What are they working toward, but feel challenge along the way. And in the process of that, the other men then give that man reflection about how they're experiencing him and what blind spots he might be carrying in terms of not being able to see the very things limiting him from getting what he wants. So it's really a place where men can come to, A, get supported when they get knocked off, centered when they have a chance, struggle in life, a setback. Other men can literally just hold a space for them to come back to themselves. And B, it's also then to hold men accountable to moving towards the lives and ways of being each man has intended for himself. So if I show up and I say I want to make this amount of money or I want to get into this kind of relationship, or I want to change how I connect to my kids, I let the guys know that and know that that's important to me, and then they track that with me over many meetings, months, years, etc. And they give me feedback about what they see I'm actually doing in terms of how I'm showing up in my life and what's in the way of me getting there. And that feedback is one of the most powerful thing men can receive. It is absolutely the root of how the masculine part of all of us grows and changes. We need challenge and we need feedback.

Host (Control or Be Controlled): Okay, so for those who do not have this type of friend group, how then can you experience this? How can they get challenge and feedback without being in the men's group?

Jason Lange: Yeah. So, I mean, the good news is what a men's group is, is just a container and structure for facilitating deep connection, and it's something any man can create. But you don't have to wait for a full group. Right. This is the kind of thing that you can be a leader in your life, in your community, in your peer circle, by reaching out to other men, getting together with them, and quite simply taking things deeper than the default conversation most men talk about, which is sports or politics or things or women they're chasing. And instead, you can be the one that initiates a deeper conversation of, hey, how do you actually feel about where your life's at right now? Where do you want it to go? Where are you struggling? And if each man shares that, that creates an opportunity right then and there to offer each other some feedback around what they're hearing, seeing, and experiencing with that other man, particularly if you get together regularly with that guy over time.

Host (Control or Be Controlled): All right, so. What is the man box? And how do men end up trapped inside expectations about what they are supposed to be?

Jason Lange: Yeah, so the man box is this great term that was coined by a couple different people, but probably most popularized in a TED talk. And essentially, it's this idea that masculinity in manhood is something that we reward two men based on their behavior. And that behavior is essentially a collection of boxes, little check boxes that you either check off or you don't. And if you check off enough things inside this overall box of behaviors, you're considered a man. And if you don't, you're not considered a man. And, you know, this varies somewhat culture to culture, but overall, globally, what we tend to see is the biggest thing that often determines whether or not a man is a man or not is, hey, is he invulnerable? Right. As long as he's tough and never shares weakness, never gets vulnerable, he's considered a man. Because a man who cries or fears or feels shame, he's not a man. Right. You can start to feel the ways we talk about this. It also, the man box tends to tell men that other men are competition. You should try to figure out everything on your own by yourself. You should pick yourself up by your bootstraps. Everything is a matter of willpower and toughness. Right? Bravado. Strength is the only thing that matters. And so if you embody all those qualities, you're considered a man. And if you don't, you're not. And we can think of all the ways men talk to each other, and our culture labels men who don't meet some of those attributes. Now, the problem with the man box is, frankly, it creates a very narrow range of acceptable behavior for men to be in. And when they're not in it, it causes them even more emotional distress. And frankly, I think it's at the root of why in many countries, the suicide rate for men is three and a half to four times higher than with women. And I think it's because of this man box, this expectation put on men that they should be tough, never ask for help, keep all their emotions inside, and just grind through life doing it all alone. And I've seen it enough, and there's enough evidence that shows that it really does end up wearing down and killing men. So the work of men and men's work right now is to add to that box so men can become complete human beings who are allowed to have interiors, feelings, and actually have connections with others.

Host (Control or Be Controlled): All right, thank you so much, Jason. I hope a lot of. So what happens when a man begins taking responsibility for his life without turning that responsibility into self blame?

Jason Lange: Yeah. One of the most powerful things we can do as men right now, specifically around responsibility, is to take responsibility for our pain. Sounds so simple. But every man, every human, but we're talking about men here, because that's who I work with, has a certain amount of pain in their life. Physical pain, emotional pain, mental pain, spiritual pain. And us men in particular are not taught the tools for how to deal with our pain, of which one of the most powerful and free ones is simply the. The power of human connection. It's talking, it's sharing, it's eye contact, it's breath, it's touch. And because of all that man box crap, so many men don't have tools to deal with our pain. So we do one of two things. We try to numb out to it with alcohol, weed, drugs, porn, masturbation, sex, food, video games, tv, you name it. Or we unconsciously push that pain out onto other people in our lives. We take it out on others and say it's their fault. And this isn't to say men deserve everything that's been done to them. You know, particularly early in our childhood, the way we are raised, the culture we're raised in, the religion we are raised in, we often don't have a choice about what's done to us. But as we become adults, only we have the power to take responsibility for that pain. I didn't ask for this, but it's mine to deal with. And when a man starts to take responsibility for his pain, a, first and foremost, he becomes more empowered. He feels a source of power in his life. Wow, I have choice to make here rather than this was all just done to me. And B, the next thing, when he starts to take responsibility for his pain, his nervous system starts to settle. It's quite simple. As we start to heal and do the things we need to do to take care of ourselves, we get regulated, Our nervous system relaxes, we leave, fighting flight, freeze and fawn as our constant states. And we get to be in this much more grounded and relaxed place where people trust us more. A man who has taken responsibility for his pain is a man that more and more people will trust because he's not just pushing it out or numbing it to other people. And if there's one thing that's quite valuable, it's trust. The more a man is trusted, the More he's gonna money he's gonna make, the more he's gonna have successful intimate relationships, and the more people are gonna want to be around him. So, so much can happen for men when we say, you know what, it's time for me to do my healing and take responsibility for my pain so I can start choosing using what happens in my life rather than falling victim to it.

Host (Control or Be Controlled): Okay, Jason, finally, if you could leave men with one piece of advice from your own experience and from your own story, one piece of advice that will change their life for good, what would that be?

Jason Lange: Yeah, I would say, quite simply, stop trying to do everything alone. Get resourced with connection and particularly other men. And why I say this is, you know, I often use this phrase, but I don't care how tough you think you are as a man, Every man at some point in his life will be confronted with a moment where he can't just push through it alone. That might come from illness, that might come from accident, or the one that's coming for us all, old age. And for most men, they wait until the crisis to discover they have no support network around them. And so if you want to be a proactive, productive man, don't wait for the emergency. Start building up social connection and capital in your life now so that when the time comes where you can't handle everything yourself, you have a system of support already around you.

Host (Control or Be Controlled): Okay, so, Jason, I need to be honest with you, because most of the things you have spoken about are reflection. I can say they're a reflection of myself or something. I don't have a good support system in terms of social system because is very difficult. I will not say it's very difficult. People outside, there, they have it. But for me, I don't know, most of my. What I call them friends, people of shared interest. And when you guys no longer share an interest, it's very difficult to still be friends, although you can still catch up and have a good chat. But spending time together is a bit different. I think it was easier when I was younger and growing up. Now everyone is trying to face their life. Everybody's trying to discover their purpose. Everybody's trying to just become who they think they want to be. And we have lost this coming together, doing things together with us. And I don't know, I. I struggle to actually make new friends. I know I can meet new people, make new friends, but it's difficult because most of the friends I make in my lifetime, they were people I met while I was doing something. We did something Together. Okay, let's say the last place I work now, I met like some guys there. And automatically because we work in a place, we could say, okay, we are now friends, but not, not actually friends, but same thing. So how can I make friends outside something I have an interest in? Yeah.

Jason Lange: Well, the good news is technologies like this make it more possible than ever. You know, I'm a huge fan of men building local community. But sometimes the easiest way to do it is to start virtual. And there's a tidal wave now of what we would call men who are the shared interest, let's say, is inner growth and healing. And that for men who choose that, that doesn't change throughout a lifetime. And so you want to find people and you want to look for people who are doing their work. And for a lot of men, it's hard to find those guys, right? Like that, that's part of the struggle. So you have to go to places where people are doing that, you know, and it's going to look different in community, in place. But yeah, who's. Who, who's taking responsibility? Like I said, that could be a meditation group, a yoga group, a mindfulness group. It could be as simple as going on something like meetup.com or a local WhatsApp and saying, Hey, I want to start a men's group. I'm looking for two or three guys who want to grow together and you've got to be the one to kind of take the lead and join the call or implant the flag, as we would say. And if you can't find that, then, yeah, you want to poke around online and start to look for these different places because it is harder than ever. A lot of the structures that supported this with us men have fallen apart. And that's why guys like me, you know, have a job right now of trying to create spaces where men can meet each other and go deeper to create these long lasting relationships. But you know, I'll just double click this point again. You could be a perfect example of this. What I'd say is it can always start with just one other man. So most men, no matter how isolated they feel or lonely they feel, if I ask them, hey, is there some guy in your life you have been in contact with that just for whatever reason you have an intuitive sense you would like to connect with more and you just were intrigued or curious about him. Most guys can think of someone, maybe it's someone they met at a barbecue or a party or through at a coffee shop, you know, who knows? And what I'D say is, take the lead. Find a way to contact that man. Reach out. Say, hey, you want to get a coffee or go for a walk? And you initiate the connection. And then on it, you lead by going somewhere deeper than most men normally would. And how I train men around this these days is pretty simple. Say, hey, I'm interested in having a real conversation. And then you share somewhere you're in pain, somewhere that you're struggling, somewhere that hurts. Then you share something you're celebrating in your life that you're proud of that's going well. Then you share something you're longing for. What are you actually longing for in your heart of hearts, in your life? Then, after you've shared all that, you ask him to share the same. And then you just talk about, and now what does it feel like for us to be here together? And almost always, that will create a deeper level of connection that you can then build upon in that relationship with that man. And for many men, they are so desperate for spaces where they can get real and go deep, you'll be shocked what happens if you're the one to create that space for them.

Host (Control or Be Controlled): Right. Thank you so much, Jason. So for those who would like to connect with you and learn more about what you do, how can they do that?

Jason Lange: Yeah, Easiest way to connect with me is to go to my website, Evolutionary Men. So it's not dot com, it's dot men. And on there, you'll find my own podcasts, blogs, writings, programs, and if nothing else, just a contact form we can write out and say, hey, I, I heard your episode and I want help finding or starting a group. And I can point you in the right way. And you can also. I always forget this, but you can take a free quiz at Evolutionary Men Quiz that'll give you some pretty, pretty clear feedback about what your gifts, your strengths in this world as a man are and what your weaknesses, what your blind spots as a man are and where you might need to grow.

Host (Control or Be Controlled): All right, thank you so much, Jason. And to my audience, I love you guys so much. Thank you all for joining today. I'll see you guys on the next episode. Bye, guys. Thank you, Jason.

Jason Lange: Thanks much.