What happens when a man finally stops abandoning himself just to keep everyone around him comfortable? That question sits underneath most of what came up in this conversation, starting with my own story. I grew up in a family of neglect, not much physical touch, not much emotional connection, and by the time I hit my teens that turned into isolation, anxiety, depression, and no real idea how to name what I felt, let alone share it. Turns out that story is a lot more common than most men want to admit.
We got into embodiment, which really just means being connected to what's alive in your body instead of living from the neck up like so many of us do. There's a stat I love bringing up here, about 80 percent of the traffic between your brain and body actually runs from body to brain, not the other way around. If you're not in your body, you're missing most of the information available to you in any given moment. I walked through the simplest practice there is for building that connection, your relationship with your own breath, which somehow is also the most advanced practice there is.
We spent real time on nice guy syndrome, that pattern where a man abandons himself to keep everyone else happy, runs around with covert contracts he never actually got anyone to agree to, then gets resentful when those unspoken deals don't pay off. I told the story of a client who worked the same job for thirty years before he finally asked for a vacation. That's what boundaries do, they show you fast who actually has your back and who doesn't.
And we talked about what happens when men chase the raise, the relationship, the six pack, believing freedom is waiting on the other side of achievement, and why almost nobody on their deathbed wishes they'd worked more.
Where in your life are you still waiting for permission you could just go ahead and ask for?
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Host (JEDAN PODCAST): Welcome back to the show. Today we are joined by Jason, a men's embodiment coach, group facilitator, and evolutionary guide who helps men gain deeper clarity in their purpose, relationships, and personal growth. Jason is a Certified no More Mr. Nice Guy Coach and has studied with influential leaders including Dr. Robert Glover, John Wineland, Junpur Roshi, Trip Lanya, and Ken Weber. Jason is passionate about helping men step into authentic masculinity and believes every man can benefit from being part of a men's group. Jason, you're welcome to the show.
Jason Lange: Thanks so much for having me. Excited to be here.
Host (JEDAN PODCAST): You're welcome. So for listeners meeting for the first time, tell us a little about your journey and what led you to dedicate your life to helping men grow and evolve.
Jason Lange: Yeah, so my journey is, yeah, I'm born here in the States, lower middle class, you know, grew up with basically all my survival needs met. But as I became a teenager in particular, what was quickly revealed to me is I was raised in a family of neglect and did not receive a lot of physical touch or emotional connection. And that led to a lot of downstream consequences for me as I grew older, feeling isolated, lonely, lonely, depressed, anxious in my body, and not knowing how to connect with other people and absolutely not knowing how to share what I felt or deal with what I felt. And turns out that's not a very uncommon story these days in terms of the culture of masculinity so many of us men are raised in, which is basically, you know, keep it all inside and be tough. And as I navigated, trying to figure out how to be a healthy expression of myself in the world and not, um, feel so down all the time, I discovered the power of men's work and men's groups and getting into community and men supporting other men to be the best versions of themselves. And out of all the different transformational things I've done, that has moved the needle the most profoundly for me. And thus I'm now very inspired to support other men in becoming the best versions them. Versions of themselves they can be by joining a men's group.
Host (JEDAN PODCAST): That's interesting. So what does men's embodiment actually mean? And why is it so important into this world?
Jason Lange: Yeah, embodiment's really just the process of being connected to our body in the moment, actually being present and feeling what's alive, both physiologically for us and even emotionally for us, I would consider. And why that's important, particularly for us men, is most of us men live the majority of our lives from the neck Up. Our attention is almost always on our thoughts. Okay, I'm thinking about this. How am I going to execute this plan? What am I going to do here? What am I going to say? Our attention is mostly in our mental realm and people around us can feel that. And it has consequences for us because we become less trustable, less effective leaders. And often we're disconnected from our bodies and our hearts, our emotional selves. And that's where we'll often injure ourselves or because we don't know how to process emotional weight that we then end up dragging around with us. For so many men, that's so overwhelming. What they do to try to get rid of that is they turn to substances outside themselves. Alcohol, weed, drugs, porn, masturbation, sex, overworking, tv, video games. You know, you can name your vice in a lot of ways, which all provide some temporary relief, but never provide the deepest relief our nervous system's really aching for. And embodiment is the process of getting connected to all of ourselves so we can show up more present in the world and create the life we want.
Host (JEDAN PODCAST): That's great. So how does the embodiment impact a man's confidence, leadership and relationships?
Jason Lange: Yeah, this is such a key one that so many guys don't get in that one simple story I tell is right. There's a bundle of nerves essentially that connect our brain to our body, that go down kind of our center column there. And what's interesting, if we imagine that as a two lane highway, so traffic goes from brain to body, and traffic goes from body to brain. Only about 20% of that traffic is brain to body. About 80% of that traffic is body to brain. And what does that mean? It means if you're not in your body, you are not receiving 80% of the information available to you in any given moment to lead, to create, to relate with those around you. And so embodiment makes us more effective in the things we want to do. Right. We loosely kind of joke about this in English of like, oh, he trusted his gut. Really what that means is he was connected to his body and his intuition and his impulses. And so much feeling and data happens in the body. And the more we get embodied, the more in a good way we become sensitive. Meaning we can feel what's happening inside ourselves, what's happening with people we're with, and frankly, what's happening in the environment around us. And that makes us better leaders because we have more information to make better decisions. And when we're in our bodies and out of our heads, Exclusively. It tends to downshift our breathing, relax us and relax the people around us so they often trust us more. And when people trust us more, guess what? We tend to get more of what we want in life.
Host (JEDAN PODCAST): Great. So what are some simple practices men can begin today to become more grounded and present?
Jason Lange: Yeah. The first one is building a relationship with your breath. This is one of the oldest practices in pretty much every lineage across the planet. And that's becoming aware of, how am I breathing right now? Again? Because particularly for us men, so many of us live from the neck up in our heads, our breath tends to be very shallow. Often we'll breathe quickly, more shallow, sometimes just into the upper chest. And that in itself sends signals to our nervous system to be on alert, to be vigilant. That's the more sympathetic part of our nervous system. As we learn to build the relationship to our breath and deepen it all the way down into our belly, Taking long, slow, full inhales and exhales, we immediately have more influence on the state of our nervous system. We can downshift into a more parasympathetic, restorative place that tends to actually relax. Like I said, everyone around us. And that practice is the most beginner practice there is, and it's the most advanced practice there is, because learning to build our relationship with our breath is how we learn to become more present as men. The beautiful thing about breath is it only exists in the present, doesn't exist in the past, and it doesn't exist in the future. So if your attention is on your breath, your attention is on the moment. And that will transform how embodied you are. If nothing else, you might become aware of how disembodied you are, which, that and alone will start to shift you towards reconnecting to yourself and the moment.
Host (JEDAN PODCAST): Wow, that's great. So you are a Certified no more Mr. Nice Guy Coach. What is Mr. Nice Guy Syndrome and how does it show up in everyday life?
Jason Lange: Yeah, absolutely. Nice Guy syndrome is basically what happens when a man starts putting everyone else in front of himself. And so, in order to keep the peace, in order to stay liked, in order to not make other people uncomfortable, nice guys disconnect from themselves. They abandon themselves. They are often conflict avoidant, have a hard time setting boundaries, are incredibly friendly, sensitive, likable, attuned, and, yes, you guessed it, nice. But what they're not often is trustable, dependable in the way that they'll tell you what's really alive for them. And the challenge for so many nice guys is they get into this paradigm where they do things for other people to try to keep them happy in hopes that those people will do things back for them, for them to keep them happy. But because they never actually ask anybody, they're running around with what Dr. Robert Glover, the guy who coined this term, calls covert contracts. Well, if I do this for you, you'll have to do X, Y, or Z for me. Right. And the problem with that is it's not consensual. I'm not actually asking for your agreement. So when I don't get what I want and I start getting mad about it or frustrated or resentful, it's not actually fair because you never agreed to that deal. And so nice guys are more and more common these days because so many men in particular have been raised around other men who do the opposite, who are kind of more the traditional macho jerk guy who just has a lot of power, goes for what he wants, but does not care about the impact of other people. And many men I work with, if not personally through fathers, uncles, or peers, having been emotionally or physically abused or even just bullied. Many men see those men and say, I don't want to be that. I don't want to be that kind of harmful man. So I'm going to kind of cut off from that part of myself, from my power, and just be more sensitive and sweet and safe. But the problem is, like I said, that man ends up often being resentful and not getting what he wants. So the work of a nice guy is not to stop being nice, but it's not to be nice at the expense of oneself. So to stop abandoning oneself,
Host (JEDAN PODCAST): that's a nice one. So what are some of the biggest fears men face when they begin setting boundaries and speaking their truth?
Jason Lange: Yeah, a lot of times men don't know how to do it, for one. They're just like, well, what is a boundary? Um, and so oftentimes, there's an education gap, there's a training gap around just teaching men what boundaries are and then teaching men the resilience to hold them right. The thing about setting boundaries is it's one of the fastest ways to discover who we actually want in our lives. If we set a boundary and someone doesn't honor it, that's a pretty huge red flag that we might want to reconsider whether or not we want to be in that relationship. If they do honor it, even if they don't like it, that's a big green flag. That means someone cares about my experience. And so I often tell men, setting boundaries is going to be disruptive in your life, but nobody is going to do it for you. And so leaning into that fear of, yeah, sometimes if I set a boundary, someone might be mad at me or uncomfortable or get angry or upset with me and I might lose some relationships. But the upside of that is the relationships that are left over on the other side are going to be ones you really want to be a part of.
Host (JEDAN PODCAST): Nice. So can you share a success story of someone who transformed after overcoming these patterns?
Jason Lange: Sure, yeah. You know, one simple story is I had a client from about a year ago who he came here from Eastern Europe. He's been in the states for about 30 years. Years. And he's basically been working a job ever since he got here. That for the first time ever, after working together for after 30 years, he asked for a vacation. He said, I want to take a vacation. I want to go back home overseas and spend a month and visit my friends and family. And so he had to ask for something and say, hey, this is a boundary. I need time off. Right. And it was confrontational for him in a sense. And lo and behold, they were happy to give him the time and he went home and he had one of the best vacations and experiences of his life and realized that he had been the limit around this more than anything else. And that's what nice guys often discover is more than they realize. People want to help them, but we have to learn to ask for help directly. And then if someone says no, at least we know where they're at and they know where we're where we are at. So overcoming nice guy syndrome. It's a lifelong pattern, but it's very doable. And like I said, the misconception is it doesn't mean you have to stop being nice. It just means you have to start advocating more for yourself.
Host (JEDAN PODCAST): That's beautiful. So what's your approach to helping men uncover meaningful purpose rather than chasing external success?
Jason Lange: Yeah, I mean the, the, the mistake a lot of men make is once I X, then I'll feel Y. What I mean by that is, oh, once I get the raise or once I make this amount of money, or once I get the hot girlfriend, or once I get the shiny new car or once I get the six pack abs, then I'll finally be happy and I'll be free. And I can tell you I've worked with hundreds of men at this point and it's not true. It's not that, you know, having more money is worse than having Less money. Certainly it has many, many benefits and that's generally better. But what men are quickly confronted with is when they live an output goal oriented life and they start to get those things, it doesn't necessarily change how they feel inside. And oftentimes men will put so much time and energy into certain types of success and achievement, they start to get what they call, what we call the golden handcuff. They're working so hard, they have no time to actually enjoy their lives, or they've made so much money, it actually becomes a source of stress in itself. And so the work I often do with men is, hey, pause. Before jumping on this escalator of success. What is the life you actually want to live? How do you want to feel throughout the day? How do you want to spend your time? Where do you want to spend your time? Who do you want to spend it with? These are questions a lot of men don't ask until they hit middle age and hit the crisis and realize, how did I end up here? This sucks, right? So I often work with men on, let's get clear on that first. And once you know how you want to feel and what you want the rhythm of your day to day life to be, you reverse engineer everything else from there. Because what that might mean is, wow, I actually make $40,000 less a year, but oh my God, I don't have a boss, I don't have to work 9 to 5, I can travel when I want, or I can be home to pick up my kids from school. That's what's really important to me. These are the kinds of things us men have to get really, really clear about. And more than a lot of guys realize, what that stuff ends up being is relationships. Right? There's study after study that interviews people who are terminally ill or on their deathbed. And none of them say, I wish I had worked harder and made more money. Almost all of them. Their number one thing is I wish I had spent more time with the people I loved and that loved me. And so getting clear about these things earlier in our lives is one of the ways I help men go deep and go under the surface and get lightning clear about how they want to live their lives so when they die, they can die free without regret.
Host (JEDAN PODCAST): Great. So you are a strong advocate for men's group. Why do you believe every man should be part of one?
Jason Lange: Yeah. So part of the challenge for so many men these days is we're taught from a young age, don't trust other men. Other men are competition Keep everything inside. Don't be vulnerable. Otherwise you're not considered a man. And just be tough, be invulnerable. And the truth is, it doesn't work. It kills men. Men are three and a half times to four times more likely to commit suicide. More men feel isolated and alone. More men die from heart disease. And this is all related to how we manage stress. The biggest way to manage stress, if there was a pill version of this, I told you that could lower your blood pressure, help your sleep, help you stop ruminating, improve your blood sugar, like all that kind of stuff. If there's a pill form, guys would be like, yeah, give it to me, give it to me. But the truth is, you can get it for free through connection, through feeling connected, known and seen and seeing and knowing another human being and realizing you're not alone. And so men who get into men's groups discover they can get more of what they want faster by growing in community. Because it does two things. Being in a powerful group helps men find their center again when they get knocked down in life. Physically, emotionally, spiritually, financially, whatever that might be. A men's group can help support you when you've lost your center, when you've collapsed, when you're overwhelmed, when you're in stress. Connection is what helps bring you back. The other thing a group will do is hold you accountable, help you get clear about the vision of the life and the man you want to be. And they will give you feedback on whether or not you're on that course and when you're not. They don't call you out from shame, but they call you out from love. Hey, I know who you want to be, and I know what you're up to and what's happening right now. That's not it. Do you realize you're doing this thing which seems to be hurting yourself? It's very simple feedback we often get as mental. And seeing that, seeing our patterns, seeing our shadows, having reflected to us how we're actually showing up in our lives is one of the fastest ways for us to transform in a more efficient manner. Right. I often joke. Most men know the experience of, you can go work out, and we can usually push ourselves pretty hard. Then you go work out with a buddy, you tend to push yourself harder. That's what happens in a men's group.
Host (JEDAN PODCAST): That's great. So if a man listening today feels stuck, disconnected, or setting about his next chapter, what message would you like to leave him with?
Jason Lange: Yeah, don't try to do it all alone there. Everything you want is going to be easier the more you lean into connection. Learn to find men you trust and build connection and community with them. They will be your emergency support system when life gets too intense. And you can start investing in that now and more and more. In our world, the best things that often come to us come through personal relationships. So a men's group is one way to build a lot of those fast and help keep you on track. So find some men in your life who you just have an intuitive sense you could go deeper with. And don't wait for them to go first. Set up a walk, grab a coffee, sit down and go under the surface with them. Talk about what's really going on in your life and then ask them what's really going on in theirs. And then talk about what it feels like to actually connect in that way. And you'll probably be shocked as to what happens.
Host (JEDAN PODCAST): Oh, wow, that's great. So before we wrap up, where can listeners connect with you and learn more about your work?
Jason Lange: Yeah, best place to stay, catch up with me is at my website, evolutionary men. So it's not.com but it's.men. on there you can find my podcast, writing, blogs, everything. And if you're a guy listening to this and you kind of want to know where your strong suits as a man are and where your, your growth edges are as a man, I have a free quiz you can take at Evolutionary Men Quiz and that'll give you a pretty powerful overview of what your gifts, your strengths and yeah, some of your blind spots and weaknesses are to help you get on the road to growth as fast as possible.
Host (JEDAN PODCAST): Oh, wow. Jason, this has been a powerful conversation about embodiment, purpose, relationships and authentic masculinity. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and insights today. Thank you so much.
Jason Lange: Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.
