There's a moment Jason Lange sees over and over with the men he works with, when the old script finally breaks. You did everything you were told to do, provide, stay tough, never crack, and you're still lying awake thinking this can't be all there is. That's the entry point into this conversation with Oti Jay on Infinite Dialogues, and Jason doesn't waste time softening the stats. Three out of four suicides are men. Loneliness among men is climbing. And the identity most of us were handed, invulnerable, stoic, a provider first and everything else second, just isn't built for the world we're actually living in now.
Jason walks through why "providing" used to mean one thing (make money, show up occasionally) and now means something much bigger, emotional presence, involved parenting, financial contribution, all while entire categories of work men used to rely on are getting automated out from under them. He gets into what men's work actually is, not therapy jargon, just the practice of getting present in your body, your nervous system, your relationships, instead of white-knuckling through life alone. There's a great section on the myth of the lone wolf (the real lone wolf is the one that got kicked out of the pack and dies faster) and the rat park addiction study, which lands hard as a case for connection being the actual medicine most men are missing.
He also gets specific about embodiment, why 80% of the communication highway between body and brain runs body to brain, not the other way around, and what that means for men who've spent their whole lives living from the neck up. And there's a good redefinition of vulnerability here too: not oversharing, but authenticity plus risk plus the willingness to stay soft instead of rigid.
Where in your own life have you been taught that needing people is the weak move, when it might actually be the thing that would move you forward fastest?
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Oti Jay: Hi, and welcome to another episode of Infinite Dialogues with Oti Jay, where we explore leadership, transformation, and the deeper work of becoming. And the deeper work of becoming. Today's conversation is about masculinity, identity, and how men can find clarity, connection, and purpose in a changing world. Today I'm joined by Jason Lange, a men's embodiment coach, group facilitator, and guide. In the space of modern masculinity, Jason helps men reconnect with themselves, their purpose, and their relationships through deep inner work and community. As a Certified no More Mr. Nice Guy Coach, he has spent over two decades exploring what it means to live as a grounded, integrated man. His work challenges outdated paradigm and invites men into healthier, more connected ways of being. Welcome to the show, Jason. It's great to have you on.
Jason Lange: Yeah. So excited to be here. Thank you for having me.
Oti Jay: Yeah, you're welcome. So you talk about old paradigm of masculinity. What exactly is breaking down today?
Jason Lange: Yeah, this is, you know, a big issue globally, I would say, which is that, you know, what we're taught to be as men is no longer sufficient for what the world is asking of from us. And for so many men, we've been kind of had this thing drilled into us since we were kids of what we kind of call the man box of, hey, to be a man, you have to be this way specifically. And the biggest version of that most of us have gotten since we were little boys is, you know, to be a man means to be invulnerable, means to be tough, means never to be sad or cry or weak or ask for help. And that has massive consequences for us men and frankly, our physical, emotional, and mental health. And we're seeing in this day and age, the research, the stats are pretty bleak for men. Men are lonelier than ever. Men are commuting suicide at high rates. Three. Three. Three out of every four suicides are men. And are feeling lost when it comes to how to create a meaningful life and how to create meaningful relationships. And so much of that is tied to this old way of thinking of what it means to be a man, which is to be loud, angry, tough, or, you know, winning at the cost of everything else.
Oti Jay: And.
Jason Lange: And so a lot of men come to me in the work these days when they start to have this intuitive sense of, I'm in a lot of pain and I don't like this, and this can't be it.
Oti Jay: Right?
Jason Lange: This can't be all there is in life. I want something more. And that's where us men are being asked to really grow and change in some pretty amazing ways.
Oti Jay: Why are so many men struggling with identity and purpose right now?
Jason Lange: Yeah, I mean, right. For decades and probably even farther back, one of the main defining traits of a man has been his capacity to provide. Right. Being a man means being a provider for his community, for his family, even for himself. And culture, society, technology are all changing so fast right now that what it means to provide is changing. Right. It used to be enough for a man to go out, make some money, take care of his family, and yeah, as long as he did that, he was considered a successful man, a good father. That's not enough anymore, right. As men, we're expected to be involved in our kids lives, to raise them, to be emotionally present, to be available in our relationships, and oftentimes to financially provide. But we need to provide more than just that. And then simultaneously, the types of jobs men have tended to do in the world, more kind of body based jobs, dangerous jobs, manual labor, all of that is starting to disappear and being replaced with automation and robots and AI. And so more and more men are having it thrown in the face of, hey, what you used to think you were needed for, you're not needed for anymore. And this is creating a lot of challenges for guys when it comes to job retraining or even knowing where to focus and even knowing how to contribute and be valuable in this current marketplace. Right in the world, a lot more jobs that are surviving are shifting towards more service and relational jobs, which mean you have to deal with people and your capacity to relate and be a good people person is important in those jobs. And most men just aren't trained in how to do that. Right. We're trained in how to be tough and how to use our bodies. So all this is kind of swirling together right now where a lot of men are losing their ability to provide their identity is being threatened. You know, I work with a lot of guys who are a little younger than me, but even my generation and kind of below here in the states, it was like if you got a computer science degree, you were safe, you were going to have a great job, make a lot of money for your whole life. All that's evaporating right now as AI is taking those jobs and those coding and a lot of men who thought they had a safe way are having to revisit like, wow, how am I going to participate in society now? So it's these cultural pressures around the man box, it's these identity pressures about our expectations of how we're Supposed to show up as men. And then it's these very real kind of societal and technological pressures that all combine to have men really being face to face with this identity crisis of who am I if I'm not just my work?
Oti Jay: That's also true. What does men's work actually mean in practical sense?
Jason Lange: Yeah, that's a great question. So men's work is just kind of a fancy term for human work. What is the work we need to do to become more available, grounded, and present in our lives, where we have the capacity to be in control and create the life we want? And this is a big shift. That means we have to learn to take care of our bodies, our nervous systems, our heart, our emotions, and our mind and our thoughts. And men's work is really that process of learning how to become more present in the world and not be trapped by so many of the things that get so many men stuck. So men's work is pretty broad and all encompassing, but it's this idea of, hey, to become more, to grow more as men, we need to look at parts of ourselves, look at how we're showing up in life, looking at how we're showing up in relationships, and frankly, for a lot of guys, just learn to take better care of ourselves. And then we do that in the context of also getting connected and relating to other men and blowing up and destroying this notion that to be a man means you have to do everything alone. And so men's work is when it all swirls together and we get deeply connected to other men, and those men help us clarify what it is we want in our lives, what we're trying to grow towards, and then what's in the way from our history or our patterning or our culture that doesn't let us get there. And in a lot of ways, men used to connect by facing the unknown in the external world, going off exploring, adventuring, hunting, warring, whatever that might be. More and more, obviously it changes depending on where you are on the planet, but that's starting to transform. And the new kind of edge or exploratory place for men is becoming more and more the inner world. Right? What is my heritage? What did I inherit from my family system, from my culture that tells me what's okay to feel and what's not okay to feel and how I'm supposed to be? And we turn and we confront that stuff face, face on in men's work and look at the things that cause us pain or discomfort that we want to numb out about, and instead we move towards them and through them so we can find more freedom to create the life we want to create.
Oti Jay: Yeah. Wow. How did your own journey into men's work begin?
Jason Lange: Yeah, it really began when I was a young boy. I grew up here in the United States, lower middle class, white guy. So I had a lot of privilege, a lot of my basic security needs met. But one thing that became apparent as I got older is my family just did not know how to do connection, emotional connection or physical connection. It just was not part of my family growing up. And so when I launched out into the world as a teenager, not having that as a base created a lot of trouble for me. I was depressed, I was anxious, I was numb in my body. I didn't know how to relate to other men. I didn't know how to relate to women in my case. And I was suffering and I had the awareness that, okay, you know, there's gotta be a different, better way here. And so I went on a search, right? I tried to figure out how to heal myself. And that led me to my first men's group when I was 26. And out of all the things I've done, many of which were transformational, being part of a men's circle, a men's group really changed me the most because it taught me how to get present with myself, what I'm feeling in my body, how to ask for help, how to get feedback about what it is I'm wanting to do in the world and how I'm showing up. And more than anything else, taught me that I'm loved and people care about me and want the best for me. And as that foundation solidified inside of me, I started taking more risks in life and really got out there. And there was a point where I was just doing men's work, doing men's groups for my own health and well being. And frankly, I just wouldn't shut up about it. So other men started asking me, hey, can I come to your group? Can I sit in? And I was living in Los Angeles at the time and we would meet in one of our members offices. He was a therapist and it was small, there wasn't room for more than eight of us. So at one point I was like, well, I want to give back. This has been so transformative for me. So I started leading groups out of my living room and everything kind of took off from there. And then I found I really enjoy supporting men and helping men live a life where they feel more alive and well and integrated. So it was really out of My own pain of disconnection. I've come to really value and think I'm pretty good at helping other men get connected.
Oti Jay: That's amazing. You emphasize men's groups. Why are they so powerful?
Jason Lange: Yeah, you know, men's group, you know, this is how we're, we're wired. You know, we are social creatures and turns out everything we want to do in life, particularly as men but as humans, is easier when we have a well regulated nervous system, right? Which just means we feel safe, relaxed and alert in our bodies. And we're not stuck up in our heads, we're not numb, we're not full of tension. And lo and behold, one of the fastest ways to get a well regulated nervous system is through connection to other people. And a men's group is one of the best places I've found to do that, particularly for men, because it does a couple things. It gives us a place of support and safety for when we're overwhelmed or we get knocked down in life. Gives us a safe place to come back to connection, to learn to feel, to metabolize, to get feedback. And it also gives us a place to be held accountable and get really clear about what we want in life and what we're trying to create and where we're going. And other men can give us feedback about what they're seeing in us along the way, right? Things we might be missing, places we might be showing up out of integrity. They challenge us because. But they challenge us with care and feedback, which helps us stay on the path we want to stay on in men. You know, there's a lot of similarities and there's a lot of difference when it comes to male bodies and female bodies. But one of the things they found is, you know, male bodies are slightly more responsive to vasopressin, a hormone we have that helps connect and bond us. And lo and behold, that hormone is released when, when we face and deal with hard things together, when we actually go into challenge and figure out tough stuff, that is often how we bond as men. So a men's group becomes this incredible place where we get side by side brotherhood with other men. And we all face the challenges of life. And in navigating the challenges of life together, men tend to experience two things. A deeper sense of purpose and a deeper sense of belonging. Purpose, meaning their presence really matters, that they're part of the group. Their feedback, their point of view, their way of being in the world, it matters and it supports the other men that they care about. And so they start to get a Deep sense of purpose. And then with that, often comes a deep sense of belonging. Right. I belong to men. I am part of. Of something. And more and more these days, the greatest pain of so many men is just feeling disconnected, feeling disconnected from themselves, feeling disconnected from other people. And frankly, depending on what culture you live in, feeling completely disconnected from the natural world and the planet itself. And a men's group becomes a pathway back to that, where we start to get more connected. We start to feel that sense of, I belong, I'm part of something, and I matter. And frankly, if nothing else, it's a place where we get community, we get connection, we get support, we get accountability. And it just helps us go farther, faster, instead of the alternative which men, most men think, which is, oh, I got to do it all alone and suffer in silence.
Oti Jay: Yeah. Well, what happens when men try to navigate life as the lone wolf?
Jason Lange: Yeah. So, right. The myth of the lone wolf we often talk about. Right. Is there's this romantic notion, idealized that, oh, my God, the lone wolf is the tough one that can survive on his own, is so resilient. But the truth is, in the natural world, the lone wolf is the wolf that got kicked out of the pack. And the wolf that's not part of a pack doesn't survive as long. He dies faster because he has no one to rely on. And so breaking up this myth is a big part of men's work these days, which is this. Hey, everything you've been taught of to be a man means to be tough, to be alone, to never ask for help. That's killing you, quite literally. For some men, whether it's physical, emotional, depression, suicide, this stuff catches up with us men. We are meant to be in relationship and connected. And, you know, there's a famous research example people often talk about that kind of relates this to addiction, something that lots of men struggle with. And it was basically they took a rat and threw it in a cage, and they filled up its little drinking tube with morphine, a very strong drug, and left alone, the rat would just keep drinking and drinking and drinking the morphine until it killed itself. What they found, though, was pretty simple intervention. Put two rats in a cage so they're not alone. Rat drinks a little, and then it's just done. It's got enough because it's actually got connection, which is the real medicine for our nervous systems and souls. So without connection, when we try to be the lone wolf, we often turn to other things that are ultimately more destructive and hard on our bodies and minds. And Hearts. And as we learn that, hey, being part of a pack actually means I get more of what I want, and it makes life easier for me. It starts to really transform, Transform things as guys. And the most often elite performers in the world are often part of teams because it means you have to relate and rely on other people in a way that we just can't do alone. And even if we're the best in what we do, or we think we are, two important things. We can't always see our own shadow. We can't see what we don't know. But other people can often see it very fast. Other people, other men in particular, can give us that reflection. And it helps prepare us for the moment in our life where no matter how tough we are as a man, there will be a moment where our body will fail us through sickness, through accident, or the one that's coming for us all through time and old age. And so building community now means we have a system around us to help support us when we can't just push through with toughness alone.
Oti Jay: Yeah. So how does embodiment. The far from talking about personal growth.
Jason Lange: Yeah. So embodiment's a key thing because from a young age, many of us men are taught to be disconnected from our bodies. You know, it's different around the world. But go most places, and you will hear, stop crying or get up, you're okay, you're tough, you can do it, you're fine. These messages that boys in particular tend to get really hit with hard when they're young. And the downstream consequence of that is what all those things really mean is, hey, what's happening in your body? It's not important. Override it, ignore it with your head. Right. Think your way through it. And that catches up with us over time. And most men end up spending way too much time up in our heads in thought or rumination, disconnected from our bodies, which then disconnects us from our emotions. Embodiment is simply the practice of coming down out of our heads and fully inhabiting our whole body, including our emotions and heart. And why that's important is it turns out our bodies are incredibly sensitive antennae.
Oti Jay: Right?
Jason Lange: They've done research that the bundle of nerves that connect our brain to our body, they call, you know, the vagal nerve. If we imagine that as a highway, only 20% of that highway is dedicated to brain to body. 80% of it is actually body to brain. Meaning if we're not in our bodies, we're actually missing out on an incredible amount of information in the Given moment. And we can't make as effective decisions for what we want to do in life. So getting into our bodies, becoming embodied, learning to feel, getting connected to the actual sensations in our physicality and our emotions. Because all emotions start as physical sensation, it makes us more effective leaders. It helps us actually be present more in the world and relate to people in a more effective way. Because we're getting more information, our intuition becomes stronger. And most men walk through the world just living from their neck up, totally stuck in their heads, totally dissociated from or not, treating their bodies well. And that will catch up to you. And what I have found is men get more embodied. They become more effective, more trustable, have more energy, get paid more money, and get into better relationships.
Oti Jay: Wow. How can men build healthier and more meaningful relationships?
Jason Lange: Yeah. Yeah. So really it comes down to the capacity to get real and go under the surface and under the hood and really get present. So the challenge with many men is most men are taught to relate via what I call triangulation or by talking about or putting our focus on things. So me and you, we hang out, we watch a sports game, we do some activity. Our attention, our connection comes from having our attention on something else other than us. Two deeper relationships start to happen when we start to turn our attention towards each other and get really present and say, hey, what is your experience in this moment? What are you feeling? Where are you in pain? What are you wanting? What's in the way? And it turns out as we go under the hood, under the surface, into that more vulnerable stuff, as we share that in our heard and seen and hear and see others, we feel more connected. And so connection really is kind of the miracle drug of our lives, that the more connected we feel, the more capable we feel, the more able to be present and create a meaningful life. And so for so many men, the change becomes rather than when I'm struggling, our often impulses hold it all inside, withdraw from connection, figure it out alone. And instead, when we start to replace that with actually what I'm hurting, when I'm in stress, that's the time I want to reach out to people that I care about and that care about me. And in those moments when my nervous system is overwhelmed, they get to lend me their nervous system, and that helps relax me and calm me and bring me back to my center. Which, lo and behold, then means I can go out and do more of the things I want. So by getting radically present and learning how to communicate in these more emotional and vulnerable ways, we really can transform ourselves and create an incredible type of connection and resiliency in our relationships.
Oti Jay: Wow. What role does vulnerability play in masculine strength?
Jason Lange: Yeah. Such a great question. I define vulnerability as three things together. It's authenticity plus risk, and then a capacity to be soft and not rigid. So vulnerability, why it's so powerful is it's actually the more courageous thing. Right. So vulnerability basically means there's something I want to say or do or feel and I don't know how it's going to be received out there in the world, but I'm going to put it out there anyway. And the resiliency it takes to do that is actually quite meaningful.
Oti Jay: Right.
Jason Lange: So I see this so much with guys. A lot of guys come to me and they're wanting to have more successful experiences in relationship. Right. What they say to me is, I want to be more confident. What most guys mean when they say confident is I want to be able to take actions, approach a woman, whatever, and know that it's going to go the way I want so I don't have to feel rejected or hurt or less than. Well, that's actually more about control and avoidance, vulnerability. Learning this kind of courage means actually what I'm going to do instead is no matter the outcome, I'm going to put myself out there, I'm going to go for what I really want. And I know I'm going to be okay on the other side of that because I got my men's group, I got my practices, I'm embodied, etc. Now the hilarious thing about that, or not just hilarious, the meaningful thing about that is the man who is willing to take the risk and be vulnerable. Hey, I want this. Do you want this too? I'm going to try this. Oh, messed that up. But I tried this. That's the man we actually see on the outside is, wow, that guy's really confident. He just goes for what he wants. If it doesn't go his way, it doesn't collapse him. So vulnerability is really this capacity to trust our deep okayness that when we take risks or put ourselves out there or unveil or reveal ourself, we're going to be okay on the other side of it.
Oti Jay: It.
Jason Lange: And it really is an incredible superpower because, you know, you could really swap being vulnerable with being courageous. If there's no fear involved, it's not courageous. Right. If I know exactly what's going to happen on the other side, I don't need any courage to do it. So stepping into vulnerability means stepping into courageousness. And most men I know, they're inspired by courageousness. They want to be courageous. They want to be around other people who are courageous. And vulnerability in this sense for men actually becomes a type of leadership over time that, wow. Every time I step into my vulnerability, reveal a hard thing that I'm feeling, take a risk, go for something I want, give someone feedback. I'm actually making it easier for other men to do the same. And that feels amazing. For men, it becomes this really beautiful type of connection where other men inspire us, and we inspire them by being brave enough, courageous enough to go into our vulnerability and discomfort and the unknown.
Oti Jay: Yeah. Wow. Thank you so, so much, Jason. This has been such an insightful conversation. You've brought clarity to a topic that many people are quietly struggling with, and your work offers a meaningful path forward. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
Jason Lange: My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me and for creating this space.
Oti Jay: Yeah. Where how can listeners connect with you? Yeah.
Jason Lange: Best place to keep up with me is at my website, Evolutionary men. So it's not.com, it's men. And on there, you'll find my podcast, blogs, writings, programs. I do men's groups. I do just everything you could possibly want to kind of learn more about what I'm talking about here.
Oti Jay: Amazing. Thank you once again,
Jason Lange: Awesome. Thank you so much.
Oti Jay: And to everyone listening, if this conversation resonated with you, share it with someone who might need it. Subscribe to Infinite Dialogues with OTJ for more conversations that explore growth, identity, and transformation. Take care. Thank you so much for your time.
Jason Lange: Yeah, my pleasure.
