The Courage to Feel (with Luke Adler)

Jason Lange: Luke Adler: Hey, y'.

Jason Lange: All.

Luke Adler: Jason and I are back. We're diving into our Heart of Shadow series. Deeper and deeper. It's what we do. And this. This track, this podcast, this Dive in session, we've both kind of been tuning into the men out there, people out there, but we're talking to men in particular who are. Who are really hurting. You know, they're. They're. You're alone, you're isolated. You maybe you have a lot of success in your life, things are going well, you followed the script, and you have succeeded financially. You've got a nice marriage, but there's this undercurrent of dissatisfaction. There's this undercurrent of kind of disconnection. And I've been tuned into it more. I think we're in this election year, and it's a polarizing, energetic. It emboldens kind of disconnected discourse and behavior with the leadership strata that the world is really looking at. And so for a man that's in tune and sensitive, as this energy polarizes up again, it can bring up the places in our life where we're not kind of totally anchored into a sense of purpose and satisfaction. And there's a collective sense of hurt. There's a collective sense of kind of a strayness, like, where are we headed as a society, as a species, and what's my place in this? So today's cast, we're diving into that somewhat existential sense of hurt that we're all feeling and men who are particularly, like, not kind of knowing where to be. And that the idea of doing shadow work, deep shadow work, maybe it seems scary or it seems like, I don't want to do that, or, you know, I've got my shit together, I'm buttoned up in life. You know, why would I do that? So we're. We're talking to this kind of greater, greater, greater schema that we're sensing. And here we go.

Jason Lange: Yeah, I think part of what had us lean in this direction was. And this shows up in all kinds of ways, but I think it's particular for men in that we've talked about some of the themes of masculinity in the man box and what men are allowed to share and feel and be. Weakness is not something Most men are allowed to feel. And that manifests in the sense of. Right. A pattern I think we've both experienced in our own lives and certainly seen in clients and in men we work with is the. Whether it's throwing ourselves into work, whether it's intensely physical things like endurance training or, you know, high performance sports, or all the way over to porn, masturbation, booze, weed, there's a sense of, as men, we'll do anything to not have to slow down and be in our bodies and feel right. So because oftentimes we're not taught how to do that or we're not equipped with the tools for like turning inward and like that. And what we find is, you know, sometimes, certainly for you and I here in the States, like our culture also supports that. Like us just scrolling, getting the next dopamine hit, buying the next thing, consumerism, social media, like these things that are constantly trying to make us feel differently than we are and kind of dangle a carrot in a sense rather than like slow down and really connect to your experience, which can often be unsettling or painful or uncomfortable. And so, you know, we work with a huge range of men, some of whom are like, yeah, I know there's something up in my life and I want to work on it. And we love those men, that self awareness. And there's also a group of men that's out there that's not even fully aware of how much pain they're in in their relationship or in their work or in their life because they never have the space to actually allow it to be felt in their nervous system. Right. Consciously or not. And so there's the sense, like, you know, at some level something isn't right. Like, ah, I'm just a little bit on edge or I feel, but I don't know, like, I got a good job, I got a wife. Like, I'm doing all these things and yet my soul doesn't, you know, really feel at peace or at ease. And this is, I think, something, you know, we're really trying to highlight that, you know, I don't care who you are and how much work you've done or how good your life has been. We all carry stuff inside of us wounding. Right? And this is something I see with a lot of guys that, no, my life's pretty good, I should be, I'm blessed. I don't deserve to feel upset or down about something. Right? We can create these stories how it's pretty, you know, it's, it's all pretty good. But then inside, you know, there actually is that suffering. So I think part of what we're trying to turn attention to here is it's okay for us men to have pain, to be in suffering and for things not to be always right and for us to start to connect to that in ourselves and actually presence that in our lives and relationships.

Luke Adler: When we're, when we're in a system, we follow the script of what success is and then we get into our lives, you know, we get into a job, we get into a long term commitment, we get into our adult life and you know, at that stage of life compared to adolescence and kind of early 20s, life grabs a hold of you. At some point it grabs a hold of you and you find yourself on a train, on a, on a trek. And I think at that point one of the things that's constant is that it starts to pull energy out of your body. Life does, you know, you got to make money, you got to show up in a certain way. For most of us, when I say Most, I mean 98% of us who have to work for a living or show up in some way, our life curriculum asserts itself and we start to engage with society in different ways. And man, sometimes I wake up and go, dang, I'm already like in my middle aged, you know, and, and I can see, wow, I'm not too far from my daughters can, they're going to be in high school and college, you know, before, before I know it. And I think, you know, we wake up, we wake up as human beings and go, wow, my life has moved and I know it's moving and it's going to kind of go faster from here forward. And that feels scary, that, that feels like, wow, what am I going to do with the time? I have, in theory, I don't have the vitality I had in my 20s and 30s, so to speak. And do I just isolate more? Do I double down on, on addiction? Do I, you know, have the affair? Do I change something externally, you know, change my career, do something drastic out here to maybe make myself feel better inside? And you know, we, we see those cliches in society and we know, you know, you might feel happy with that new Porsche or that new Subaru, whatever you like for a little bit, but that, that inner gnawing, that loneliness, it doesn't, doesn't go away. And you know, maybe there's work out there where you can go scream and pound your chest and like do something extreme to kind of liberate your masculine presence and you know, that's beautiful work. Some of that happens in our sessions. But I think what we're highlighting, what you just said, Jason, so poignantly and beautiful, is that we're creating a culture where it's permissible for a man to feel. One of the things you've said is real men feel everything. And, you know, it's a play on words in a certain sense, but it's this idea that to be complete as a man requires that we open our hearts and utilize this part of our nervous system, our energetic system, and in a certain sense, learn. Learn to live in a new way that is broken free and out of the typical man box, which is men are not allowed to feel. And you keep that up into your 40s and 50s and it's a problem. It's a problem relationally, it's a problem financially. Maybe not financially, you can get away with that because it's more. That's more of a survival area, money. But relationally and health wise, because that's a relationship with our bodies, it becomes a serious problem. And, you know, putting money aside, the most valuable thing we have is time. And as that passes, you can't get it back. You can't get it back with money. Time is the great currency of life. And when we can start to feel again, in a certain sense, become alive again, we start to get life back. Life comes back to us. In a strange way, we do regain time because the quality of our experience.

Luke Adler: Was there a way in which. Jason, I mean, I'm asking you this really for the benefit of others, but the.

Jason Lange: The.

Luke Adler: The years preceding that realization, was there a sense of, you know, the. The comfort and, you know, all. It was very positive connection that you had, that it was worth not bringing that forward, was worth, you know, staying comfortable in the dynamic. Like, it was like, this. The payoff is worth it right now. Like, I. I'm fine with that.

Jason Lange: Yeah. I mean, that's the story I told myself. And there was. There was a lot of comfort in it, even though, you know, I wasn't. All my needs and wants weren't being fully met, and frankly, hers weren't either. You know, there was a way that I think this is what became really, you know, our teacher. Like, it all tied together for me as. And I didn't necessarily feel this in the moment. But as I really reflected of there was a way I was deeply neglectful of her heart and the pain she was in. And like, for me to kind of like, in a way there was like a type of abuse in that of just like it was, it was comfortable, I was staying in, I was getting certain needs met and I was okay with that deal for a while until I really felt in my body what I was doing to, to this, this person and what it was doing to me, you know, but there was, you know, I think the thing with a lot of this work is that, right, it's, it's so intoxicating. The allure of the short term comfort, the short term relief, right? Which in some ways is just so much easier than the uncertainty, the vulnerability, the conflict, the unknowing on the other side that can come from when we do really start to connect to our bodies and our needs and our wants and the things we need to thrive, particularly as men. And you know, you and I work with a lot of nice guys in what we do, and nice guys, we really can tend to have this tendency to kind of, as I say, fall on the sword of it's all my fault or it's always, you know, it's my fault and it's my thing. And it can be really hard for us to confront. Like, hey, actually, you know what, what's happening in our relationship isn't 100% my fault, right? It's always co created. And so there is something I need here or a boundary I need to set. And that can be extraordinarily disruptive, right. Like I said, and destabilizing. And for a lot of us men who are taught we shouldn't be weak, we shouldn't have needs, we shouldn't be vulnerable, we're supposed to just always work harder and show up better. Like I can see it like, and you know, stuff I've had to work in my relationship of, oh, it's always my fault when it's like, okay, that's not actually helpful. That doesn't improve our relationship. It doesn't actually create more connection between us. And for a lot of us guys and the work we do in the shadow program, it's slowing things down to really come into contact and be able to presence some of our authenticity, our feelings, our needs. And then that drives action and change. And while it can be destabilizing tends to bring more life force back to us in general.

Jason Lange: Yeah, I love that. And I think of a term I've heard you use sometimes that, you know, this work is activism in a sense. And, you know, there's that phrase, you know, think global, act local and in. In our world. This is certainly how I think about this is I don't know if I can ever shift the culture or change the world. But what I do know is in, you know, even as something as simple as a men's group, we can start to shift the quality of relationships within that group, and then those men can start to shift the relationships immediately around them. And that's how it happens, right? It is that peer to peer, like one to one, what are our close relationships? How do I show up? How do I model for my children, what it means to be emotionally fluid and present and expressed and literate. Right? That's in my mind. That's. That'll change the planet right there, right? If every, every man was learning about emotional literacy and how to healthily embody and express that, and then actually doing that in his relationship, that changes so much. And so this type of activism, you know, it does start it just in the nuts and bolts of your. Your family, your life, your work as it is now, you don't have to go off to the monastery. In fact, the most opportunity for Growth is in that which is closest to you right now. Right. Whatever you're most deeply embedded in is, like I said, that's where you're going to see, like you said, the change show up. That's when it really matters. And having the continuity of a group, you know, has been transformative for me in my life because also, you know, is where I get to see it show up. Sometimes I'm so embedded in my life, I don't feel like anything's changed. But then I come in, I do some work with you guys in our group, and I'm like, oh, wow, I'm relating to that totally differently. Or I'm showing up, like, I have changed. It is different. Like, I can keep trusting myself in this process. And so it. It allows me to kind of see those changes in powerful ways in, you know, the, the suffering of so many men that there are so many forces pushing towards. You gotta suffer alone. Like, it's just. It breaks my heart. Part of the call here is like, yeah, like, you can step in. You don't have to be perfect. You don't have to have it figured out. You don't even have to know what the problem is. You just have to know. I want more. I want more vitality, more energy, more love in my life. That's all possible here. Sometimes we're in a acute mode and we just want to get out of the emergency situation and we work with those men. Sometimes we are with the men who are like, yeah, you know, things are okay, but I don't want to die with my life. Just okay. I want to die with my life. Like, fuck, okay. That had some ups and downs, but I went for it. I rocked it. That journey was worth it, right? And so many men, I think, actually crave that. It's just the level of distraction and comfort pushed on us constantly makes it so hard to even acknowledge I want more or this thing isn't working for me. And if we haven't had that modeled and we haven't been given that safe space to be able to presence and step into that, it just stays under the surface. And, you know, I know you literally see that showing up in people's bodies. Like, this stuff catches up to us as we age and it doesn't have to. As we've often talked about before.

Luke Adler: Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah.

Jason Lange: Just.

Luke Adler: Just feeling that, that kind of. I don't know. I, you know, I've. I've worked with so many people who have chosen not to step in and open up. Just, you know, as Like a medical provider. And of course, much of my career I've, I've just fought for everyone to wake up and everyone to kind of have this opening and, and realize that was an unsustainable path as a, as a healer to try to, you know, get everyone to wake up. It's like, okay, this is for folks who are ready and they want it. And then, you know, to watch people that I work with choose to not, not kind of break out of that shell and then die. You know, I've worked with a lot of death to watch a lifetime, watch a lifetime end. Having not chosen to, to face, to feel and to heal in a significant way. I don't know, I guess there's some grief. I used to really grieve this, but now I just see that that happens. That's something that happens. Of course, probably most of the time, lifetimes end without having faced a dynamic in life that was hurting. And I guess if you're listening to this, I really want you to know that we're serious and this isn't, this isn't a gimmick or something that we want you to like, give us your money and then we're gonna, you know, change your life kind of thing. And this takes a lot of work. What Jason and I do, we build our whole lives around this, meaning our healthcare, our relationships with our spouses, our kids, our careers at large are built in a way for us to have the energy to get close to deep pain and hurt. And we're really good at it. We've been doing this a long time. We can hold a very delicate space, a loving space. And I want to highlight a non shaming space where if you're up for it, you will have an experience of yourself in a way you may, may have never had. And if you've done work, you will feel something even deeper than you felt before. And it will lead to all the things that we're talking about because this is our lives, this is what we do. And we've chosen to put all of our chips into this basket because of the impact, the profound impact this work has had on our lives. And it's really cool. We've, we've, we've been running this program, this particular iteration of our offering going on two years now. And it's so exciting to meet with men and to watch them have the same liberative, connective experience every time and to see quickly, within two, three weeks, these guys are fully with each other and, and they have a sense. Not because we're telling them or brainwashing people in any way they're experiencing the power of connection. Disconnection is powerful. Isolation is powerful. You can create movements of murderous movements of destruction. We've seen this. I don't need to say them out loud. They're going on as we speak. Right. If we objectify each other, we can easily kill, literally kill one another off. So disconnection is powerful, but connection is even more powerful. Why? Well, because the core of who we are is connective. Underneath the hurt, underneath the sense of unworthiness, underneath the sense of like us and them. Black and white thinking is a longing to connect. Our core is about connection and love. And it's why connection will always win out against a disconnect of paradigm. Connection will always win. And it's because of that principle that Jason and I can get in there. We can get in there with the parts of ourselves that are really stuck, really married to being disconnected, really kind of entrenched in that. So if you're out there and you're in pain and this is resonating with you, take a leap. We're going to be offering this more and more, and our work's going to grow and grow and quite, quite quickly in the next few years. So reach out to us and, you know, join in. Join in with this work.

Jason Lange: Yeah, you can join the wait list for the next hard o Shadow [email protected] you can just drop your email in there and you'll be the first to know next time we open the doors on this program and community and style of work. And, you know, regardless, you can just start to step in right to your feeling that level of that connection that you're talking about, that that can always start with you and yourself. I'm gonna choose to connect to the fullness of my experience right now in my feelings. And that starts the whole engine for then how you can connect to others. And as you connect to others, that's what changes everything. Right? So that, you know, whatever pain you might be carrying, whether you're acutely aware of it or whether you just have that vague sense of, oh, man, it just. I don't feel at ease connecting to self in this way and feeling more. And the power of shadow work is it's the gateway in to so much more. And in our world, you know, it's the gateway to activism and how we actually change.

Luke Adler: It's just.

Jason Lange: One man at a time choosing, all right, I'm going to feel it. I'm going to feel it. I'm going to feel, I'm going to feel, I'm going to feel. And that ripples out. And we've seen it ripples out into families, careers, work. And, you know, we can't control a lot, but we can control that. We're doing our part there as individuals choosing to feel. So we'd love to hear from you, man. If you have any thoughts about this or any of our podcasts, certainly let us know. You can email me at jasonvolutionary. Men. And I think you have a contact form on your site. Yeah.

Luke Adler: Yep. Yeah, one will pop up if you come to lukeadlerhealing.com and we'll get back to you.

Jason Lange: Yeah, we'll get back to your thoughts. And like I said, you can also join the waitlist shadow.com and, you know, send this along to a man that you have a sense is ready for more. Yeah.

Luke Adler: Jason, fantastic. Thank you.

Jason Lange: Awesome. Till next time, if you're interested in working with me around dating, relationships or your masculine presence in the world, just go to Evolutionary Men. Apply.