The Courage to Feel (with Luke Adler)

Jason Lange: Luke Adler: Hey, y'.

Jason Lange: All.

Luke Adler: Jason and I are back. We're diving into our Heart of Shadow series. Deeper and deeper. It's what we do. And this. This track, this podcast, this Dive in session, we've both kind of been tuning into the men out there, people out there, but we're talking to men in particular who are. Who are really hurting. You know, they're. They're. You're alone, you're isolated. You maybe you have a lot of success in your life, things are going well, you followed the script, and you have succeeded financially. You've got a nice marriage, but there's this undercurrent of dissatisfaction. There's this undercurrent of kind of disconnection. And I've been tuned into it more. I think we're in this election year, and it's a polarizing, energetic. It emboldens kind of disconnected discourse and behavior with the leadership strata that the world is really looking at. And so for a man that's in tune and sensitive, as this energy polarizes up again, it can bring up the places in our life where we're not kind of totally anchored into a sense of purpose and satisfaction. And there's a collective sense of hurt. There's a collective sense of kind of a strayness, like, where are we headed as a society, as a species, and what's my place in this? So today's cast, we're diving into that somewhat existential sense of hurt that we're all feeling and men who are particularly, like, not kind of knowing where to be. And that the idea of doing shadow work, deep shadow work, maybe it seems scary or it seems like, I don't want to do that, or, you know, I've got my shit together, I'm buttoned up in life. You know, why would I do that? So we're. We're talking to this kind of greater, greater, greater schema that we're sensing. And here we go.

Jason Lange: Yeah, I think part of what had us lean in this direction was. And this shows up in all kinds of ways, but I think it's particular for men in that we've talked about some of the themes of masculinity in the man box and what men are allowed to share and feel and be. Weakness is not something Most men are allowed to feel. And that manifests in the sense of. Right. A pattern I think we've both experienced in our own lives and certainly seen in clients and in men we work with is the. Whether it's throwing ourselves into work, whether it's intensely physical things like endurance training or, you know, high performance sports, or all the way over to porn, masturbation, booze, weed, there's a sense of, as men, we'll do anything to not have to slow down and be in our bodies and feel right. So because oftentimes we're not taught how to do that or we're not equipped with the tools for like turning inward and like that. And what we find is, you know, sometimes, certainly for you and I here in the States, like our culture also supports that. Like us just scrolling, getting the next dopamine hit, buying the next thing, consumerism, social media, like these things that are constantly trying to make us feel differently than we are and kind of dangle a carrot in a sense rather than like slow down and really connect to your experience, which can often be unsettling or painful or uncomfortable. And so, you know, we work with a huge range of men, some of whom are like, yeah, I know there's something up in my life and I want to work on it. And we love those men, that self awareness. And there's also a group of men that's out there that's not even fully aware of how much pain they're in in their relationship or in their work or in their life because they never have the space to actually allow it to be felt in their nervous system. Right. Consciously or not. And so there's the sense, like, you know, at some level something isn't right. Like, ah, I'm just a little bit on edge or I feel, but I don't know, like, I got a good job, I got a wife. Like, I'm doing all these things and yet my soul doesn't, you know, really feel at peace or at ease. And this is, I think, something, you know, we're really trying to highlight that, you know, I don't care who you are and how much work you've done or how good your life has been. We all carry stuff inside of us wounding. Right? And this is something I see with a lot of guys that, no, my life's pretty good, I should be, I'm blessed. I don't deserve to feel upset or down about something. Right? We can create these stories how it's pretty, you know, it's, it's all pretty good. But then inside, you know, there actually is that suffering. So I think part of what we're trying to turn attention to here is it's okay for us men to have pain, to be in suffering and for things not to be always right and for us to start to connect to that in ourselves and actually presence that in our lives and relationships.

Luke Adler: When we're, when we're in a system, we follow the script of what success is and then we get into our lives, you know, we get into a job, we get into a long term commitment, we get into our adult life and you know, at that stage of life compared to adolescence and kind of early 20s, life grabs a hold of you. At some point it grabs a hold of you and you find yourself on a train, on a, on a trek. And I think at that point one of the things that's constant is that it starts to pull energy out of your body. Life does, you know, you got to make money, you got to show up in a certain way. For most of us, when I say Most, I mean 98% of us who have to work for a living or show up in some way, our life curriculum asserts itself and we start to engage with society in different ways. And man, sometimes I wake up and go, dang, I'm already like in my middle aged, you know, and, and I can see, wow, I'm not too far from my daughters can, they're going to be in high school and college, you know, before, before I know it. And I think, you know, we wake up, we wake up as human beings and go, wow, my life has moved and I know it's moving and it's going to kind of go faster from here forward. And that feels scary, that, that feels like, wow, what am I going to do with the time? I have, in theory, I don't have the vitality I had in my 20s and 30s, so to speak. And do I just isolate more? Do I double down on, on addiction? Do I, you know, have the affair? Do I change something externally, you know, change my career, do something drastic out here to maybe make myself feel better inside? And you know, we, we see those cliches in society and we know, you know, you might feel happy with that new Porsche or that new Subaru, whatever you like for a little bit, but that, that inner gnawing, that loneliness, it doesn't, doesn't go away. And you know, maybe there's work out there where you can go scream and pound your chest and like do something extreme to kind of liberate your masculine presence and you know, that's beautiful work. Some of that happens in our sessions. But I think what we're highlighting, what you just said, Jason, so poignantly and beautiful, is that we're creating a culture where it's permissible for a man to feel. One of the things you've said is real men feel everything. And, you know, it's a play on words in a certain sense, but it's this idea that to be complete as a man requires that we open our hearts and utilize this part of our nervous system, our energetic system, and in a certain sense, learn. Learn to live in a new way that is broken free and out of the typical man box, which is men are not allowed to feel. And you keep that up into your 40s and 50s and it's a problem. It's a problem relationally, it's a problem financially. Maybe not financially, you can get away with that because it's more. That's more of a survival area, money. But relationally and health wise, because that's a relationship with our bodies, it becomes a serious problem. And, you know, putting money aside, the most valuable thing we have is time. And as that passes, you can't get it back. You can't get it back with money. Time is the great currency of life. And when we can start to feel again, in a certain sense, become alive again, we start to get life back. Life comes back to us. In a strange way, we do regain time because the quality of our experience.

Jason Lange: Increases and we're actually connected in our experience. And, you know, we're covering a lot here that, you know, it's so fun to feel all the threads of, just the importance of this idea of feeling as an antidote to the overwhelm, to the fatigue, to the fear, to the feeling of disease that we often carry as men. And that because, you know, we're not equipped or not taught how to feel, we'll do anything to not feel right. So we'll change our state, right? That's part of what we're talking about here. And the trick with that, you know, part of what can kind of keep us in, you know, certainly has kept me at times in my life. And this just like. I don't know, it's okay, right? Like, sense is, you know, my first men's coach, I remember he. He told me, he gave me that analogy of like, there's. There is only one pipeline for feeling, just one. All the good stuff, all the hard shadow stuff, all the negative stuff, it all goes through there. And so anytime we constrict around the hard stuff, the grief, the fear, the anxiety, the overwhelm, the shame. We're also constricting the bandwidth to the aliveness for the vitality, for the joy, right? You can't just take the good stuff and ignore the bad stuff. So part of what, you know, our work is about, and both, you know, the work we do together and then the work I think we do independently as well, is helping people open up to the realization that, oh, if you want life to be better, you have to feel more of all of it, right? You like, you have to just open to the whole experience. And that's really edgy sometimes. As you know, you and I were talking about. Another one of my teachers, you know, pointed this out to me. And it's kind of goes around the Internet in different ways. But you know, the etymology there, the root of emotion, energy, motion, energy in motion. You know, emotions in our body are physiological responses. It's actually a biochemical response to our environment, right? Stimulation comes in of some kind, our body releases these emotional chemicals and what they're meant to do is drive some kind of action to then interact with that environment in some way. When we're not willing to feel, we're often cutting that off, right? Or when we're trying to get rid of the feelings or when we numb out to them, as I often did. And so we can stay stuck in things for a long time. And over time, that sucks so much of our chi and vitality and just engagement and feeling of empowerment, you know, from the world. But when we start to shift that and when we allow the feeling to come through us and to actually move us, this is something you and I were talking about. It actually tends to be pretty disruptive, right? So for me, before my current marriage, I was in a long term relationship with another partner. And you know, there was a lot of positives about it and for maybe, maybe three years into it, I kind of was starting to get the sense, you know, we're probably not long term partners. Like, there's a lot here, but it was comfortable, it was convenient. I genuine care and affection for her. But over time I was kind of, I just kept numbing out from, it's gonna be so hard to break up from her. It's gonna be so painful. I'm afraid to be alone again. So I like stayed in it, you know. And it was a particular interaction we had where for like the first time in years, I really allowed myself to feel how much pain we were both actually in because I was secretly wanting her to be someone different. She was kind of wanting me to show up differently for her. And there was this, like, moment of integrity for me that was like, oh, fuck, man, what are you doing? Like, every moment I'm with this woman, I'm preventing her from meeting a man who's gonna love her exactly as she is, right. And not have this thing. And, you know, for better or worse, like, I broke up with her that day, and it was super painful, but it was the first time I had really allowed myself to feel her pain and my pain. And when I did, I had to make it right. I had to take action. There was no, like, going back to sleep around that. And I think for a lot of people we work with and men we work with, you know, something you've highlighted on previous episodes is the safe space we're able to create in our shadow work, which is nuanced, safe, highly connected, and attuned, often creates, like, somewhere for that stuff to start to bubble. The feelings deep in our nervous system of how heartbroken we are in our relationship or how utterly done we are with our work or some facet of our life that when we start to really come into contact with the emotion, with the truth of. Actually can bring a lot of instability in our life because it's like, fuck, I can't. This can't stand anymore. I have to make a shift now. And that's scary. Like, that's genuinely scary because it can change so much in our life and because it can be scary. That's. I think, one of the reasons I certainly often have avoided being in my body and coming into contact and feeling the feels, so to speak, like we're talking about.

Luke Adler: Was there a way in which. Jason, I mean, I'm asking you this really for the benefit of others, but the.

Jason Lange: The.

Luke Adler: The years preceding that realization, was there a sense of, you know, the. The comfort and, you know, all. It was very positive connection that you had, that it was worth not bringing that forward, was worth, you know, staying comfortable in the dynamic. Like, it was like, this. The payoff is worth it right now. Like, I. I'm fine with that.

Jason Lange: Yeah. I mean, that's the story I told myself. And there was. There was a lot of comfort in it, even though, you know, I wasn't. All my needs and wants weren't being fully met, and frankly, hers weren't either. You know, there was a way that I think this is what became really, you know, our teacher. Like, it all tied together for me as. And I didn't necessarily feel this in the moment. But as I really reflected of there was a way I was deeply neglectful of her heart and the pain she was in. And like, for me to kind of like, in a way there was like a type of abuse in that of just like it was, it was comfortable, I was staying in, I was getting certain needs met and I was okay with that deal for a while until I really felt in my body what I was doing to, to this, this person and what it was doing to me, you know, but there was, you know, I think the thing with a lot of this work is that, right, it's, it's so intoxicating. The allure of the short term comfort, the short term relief, right? Which in some ways is just so much easier than the uncertainty, the vulnerability, the conflict, the unknowing on the other side that can come from when we do really start to connect to our bodies and our needs and our wants and the things we need to thrive, particularly as men. And you know, you and I work with a lot of nice guys in what we do, and nice guys, we really can tend to have this tendency to kind of, as I say, fall on the sword of it's all my fault or it's always, you know, it's my fault and it's my thing. And it can be really hard for us to confront. Like, hey, actually, you know what, what's happening in our relationship isn't 100% my fault, right? It's always co created. And so there is something I need here or a boundary I need to set. And that can be extraordinarily disruptive, right. Like I said, and destabilizing. And for a lot of us men who are taught we shouldn't be weak, we shouldn't have needs, we shouldn't be vulnerable, we're supposed to just always work harder and show up better. Like I can see it like, and you know, stuff I've had to work in my relationship of, oh, it's always my fault when it's like, okay, that's not actually helpful. That doesn't improve our relationship. It doesn't actually create more connection between us. And for a lot of us guys and the work we do in the shadow program, it's slowing things down to really come into contact and be able to presence some of our authenticity, our feelings, our needs. And then that drives action and change. And while it can be destabilizing tends to bring more life force back to us in general.

Luke Adler: I think that that last phrase, life force, I mean the body is always the Barometer for aliveness. And for people out there, men especially, you know, if you're out there and you think you're cruising, things are good, but you have a sense, you know, things actually aren't good. I would, I would alert you to, and have you look at, you know, what's the quality of your relationship? If you're in a long term relationship, how does it feel? Is it connective? Does it feel alive? Is there gratitude flowing through it? You know, is there a sense of deep appreciation and love, passion moving through the relationship? And if you're not in a long term relationship or a committed relationship, how's your relationship to your body? How's your body feeling? Do you feel vital? Do you feel good? Do you feel a sense of life force flowing through you? Is there energy there? Is there disease? The body just tells the truth. The bodies in a relationship tell a truth we can get used to and convince ourselves that, you know, things are good enough. You know, I have a chronic head cold, my stomach hurts a lot, I'm shitting water. I have menstrual cramps, I've got endometriosis, I've got these subclinical issues, some autoimmune stuff. But you know, things are, things are still, they still work. And the invitation here, and I guess it's more like the possibility we're opening up is that your life does not have to be a sub clinical disease. It doesn't have to be this autoimmune attack, this fibromyalgia, chronic immune deficiency, long Covid, long haul kind of depleted state. Our bodies do not have to take on the stress of not bringing our truth forward in life. They're built to the, the body is built to take it on, but it's not meant to take it on long term. It will lead to quick deterioration of health. And there is a life. There's a life out there waiting for you where there's connection with partner, there's connection with self, there's energy. I'm not talking about spiritual shit now. I'm just talking about having the energy to do your life and not having to prop it up with caffeine and boos and uppers and downers to kind of get through the day. Connection can become your, your nicotine connection can become your caffeine. And this isn't like a Tony Robbins pep talk. God bless Tony Robbins. He serves so many people. I love the man. But this work is distinct in that when we start to actually feel, our energy comes back. And I want to just Pivot back to one thing you were saying about kind of the nice guy and that when we, when we do maybe start to open up feeling we can have a tendency to take on too much in our relational dynamic and that that can include our relationship to our own health. Oh, I, I, I created this disease or I manifested this cancer or you know, it's, it's all of my responsibility to manage my, my well being.

Jason Lange: I love that. I mean, yeah, this is great. We're just gonna, I'm just gonna go for it here in that, right. It ties to two things I've thought a lot about. One, in kind of the wellness space that you know, some of the work is tangential to us and you know, this idea of healing and growth and all that right there is the idea of the law of attraction and the secret, right, you manifest your reality. And so one of the shadow elements of that is, well, yeah, if you get cancer, it's your fault because you were thinking negative thoughts. And that's a level of just toxicity that is, you know, to me, radioactive in kind of the wellness sphere. But not only do we get hit with it there, but I've been thinking a lot about it in terms of, even just at a broader cultural sense, you know, like somewhere here, like the States. This fucking, it's been getting, getting me going lately. The, you know, the, the Marlboro man, the rugged cowboy, the, the tough individualistic American who picks himself up by his bootstraps. What that narrative does is it means if you're in strife or the world or the system isn't working for you, it's your fault. And what that does is it turns the blame and the direction back on yourself versus part of what we're pointing towards here is as we learn to connect to the totality of our experience, which responsibility is a part of that. But any relational system is co created, right? There's a dynamic there, whether it's us in the government, us in capitalism, us and our intimate partner. And when we start to step into that, it's, and show up with our truth, it's disruptive, right? And so, you know, I'm not the big conspiracy guy, but there's a, there's a way the system, it doesn't want us to feel how unfair and shitty things are because the moment people do that, it creates, tends to create vast change and very fast, right throughout the world we've seen this. Like when people really do say enough is enough around this, it causes change. So one of the ways you can deflate that whole thing is, well, it's your fault you're not succeeding in our system. You're not working hard enough, you're not trying hard enough, you're lazy, it's your fault you're sick. It's not the fact that we don't have healthcare here. It's not the fact that, you know, particularly in somewhere like the US, all of us are essentially living without a safety net. And so our nervous systems have this feeling of there's no one to catch me if things don't work out. That is not the universal human experience in every culture, right? It is something we've chosen here, but it creates a level of stress that I think not every man is even aware of. Like, fuck, no, I gotta keep going. I gotta keep going because if I don't, what happens? And you know, I live here in LA and every day on the streets I see what happens when people fall through the cracks and there's no one to catch them because of this hyper individualistic kind of culture we're in here. But what I want to point to here is, yeah, yeah, there is this disruptive kind of revolutionary energy to identifying our truth and our needs and bringing it into relationship to whatever it is. We're. Whatever that relationship is to. And that's something us nice guys often don't do. And that's something we can't do if we're not even connected enough to our experience to feel what's actually happening in our body, right? That, that sense of whether it's coming from an outside force or sometimes an inside force of, fuck, enough is enough. I can't do this to myself anymore. Like, I, this is unattainable, this is unsustainable. I have to create some kind of change here. And these things are all so related, right? Both down into our own nervous system and then the systems we're embedded in now of how much wants to move us away from feeling, I think particularly as men, because there's the added layer of feelings are weak, right? And you should never show weakness, you should never show vulnerability and you're not allowed to have needs or wants to some extent. So what we're really pointing to here is, you know, part of what we really want to do with our Heart of Shadows start to create a space where a new culture can emerge, right? Where we can feel the totality of our experience and we can learn to communicate in ways that, that actually creates more connection in our lives. And, you know, I'll just end here with. It does blow me away you know, I do a lot of work with guys around dating relationships. I've done some work with couples, and it shocks me more often than not how I really think in a weird, fucked up way. The standard for many people is that their relationship, their intimate relationship is actually one of the sources of stress for them in their lives. Not a place to get resourced against all of the stresses of life that are out there and gonna come at you no matter what. It blows my mind sometimes how much we're willing to tolerate as men that like, oh, fuck, wait, that's been your go to. That's been the norm for your relationship. And to even consider that a relationship could be a place where you get resourced by your partner, where it gives you the energy, the vitality to go out and deal with all the stress of the world is a pretty big game changer. And it's something I think you and I are really passionate about, kind of taking a stand for in that this work is useless. Any transformational work is useless if it's not showing up in your relationships and in your behaviors. If you're not, you know, as my therapist recently told me, I think I mentioned, you're not having different reactions in the same situations. You are not changing, right. Like, if you're entering into the same stuff, but you're actually having different reactions to it, you know, you're doing real work that matters. And. And I've been part of the work that doesn't. I've taught the part of the work that doesn't sometimes. But what we're really taking a stand for is, yeah, you should see your life move and shift when you. When you really feel at this level and come into authentic contact with what's really happening in your nervous system and being able to presence that, like, life should change. Yes, some pieces are out of your control, but something will change. That was awesome.

Luke Adler: There was a big magazine, I think Vogue or GQ did an interview on a pretty big transformational movement. I'm pretty sure it was a men's movement. And they were kind of inquiring, like, hey, what are your results? You know, like, what's actually changing here? And the criticism was that this is a place where people come, they go on retreat, they have a great time, they feel pumped up and inspired. And like most retreats, that then fades and then you're looking forward to the next retreat in six months, 12 months. And in a certain sense, the journalists basically gave that criticism like, hey, this is cool. These people feel like they have a home but how is it really changing society? Like, is our behaviors like you're saying, Jason, are behaviors actually changing when you go home to your partner, to your children, to your workplace? Are you more of an advocate for people who are under the thumb of patriarchy? Are you speaking up around oppression? Are you being a liberative presence for those who aren't oppressed? Protect it. And I thought it was actually quite brilliant. Just like you said, I've led a lot of work that's like, hey, it's, you know, as you and I've been leading work for a long time, it's fun to lead transformational work. It's amazing to see people wake up. It feels good to facilitate that. And then, you know, as time passes, you see that pattern of, oh, wow, they've just gone back into the same dynamic in the relationship. They're in the same job. Nothing's changed. All they did was utilize you and me and what we're offering and enabling in some ways to just come get inspired, get a reprieve from the grind, and feel some connection to their, you know, core nature, which is beauty and love, and then go back to the disillusionment of life. And what's really different about the offering that you and I are making now is that it's born out of our own maturing and our own deeper evolution into adulthood. And what I would say, taking on the reins of society, you know, like, our parents are no longer participating in a society in the same way. They're older, their health is becoming more of a focus, and it's really on us to hold society together. And so this work is about meeting that challenge and creating a more beautiful, just and equitable world. This is not about coming to get, you know, high and stoked on brotherhood. I mean, that's fun and we love that. But ultimately, it's the continuity of presence over time, the loving presence of a. A man, which so many of us men didn't have. We were maybe lucky if we were provided for properly. But many of our dads of our generation, you know, they just weren't present. They were out working and grinding. And so part of what we're offering is the continuity of loving male presence over time. And that continuity leads to behavioral changes and skill building where we actually create a relationship, a workplace, a community that is more integrated, beautiful, and holistic. And ultimately, that's our mission. So when we're calling out to men who are hurting, who are alone, we want you. We need you in this world. We need healthy men. We need to kind of evolve as men. And we are on that precipice. And that's what Heart of Shadows all about. We're doing work that is a deep study, a deep study of being alive. It's a deep study of culture. It's a deep study of our conditioning, our wounding, our trauma. Not just ours in our lifetimes, but our fathers, our mothers, our grandfathers, grandmothers, et cetera. It's building some skills that haven't come forward yet. And we are that next, that next kind of phoenix rising of evolution. And it's time. This is the work. This is the evolutionary work of healing and spirituality that is moving through, through our species, through humanity. And, you know, we think that we're offering something pretty unique as far as deep shadow work goes. And it's something that we feel is measurable, and we're looking at ways to measure that more so that, you know, those out there that really want to see the proof and the kind of qualitative study, you know, we're. We're of that mind because we want this to be more than just a great work weekend or a great nine, you know, three months you spend with us. We want this to be something that lives well into your life.

Jason Lange: Yeah, I love that. And I think of a term I've heard you use sometimes that, you know, this work is activism in a sense. And, you know, there's that phrase, you know, think global, act local and in. In our world. This is certainly how I think about this is I don't know if I can ever shift the culture or change the world. But what I do know is in, you know, even as something as simple as a men's group, we can start to shift the quality of relationships within that group, and then those men can start to shift the relationships immediately around them. And that's how it happens, right? It is that peer to peer, like one to one, what are our close relationships? How do I show up? How do I model for my children, what it means to be emotionally fluid and present and expressed and literate. Right? That's in my mind. That's. That'll change the planet right there, right? If every, every man was learning about emotional literacy and how to healthily embody and express that, and then actually doing that in his relationship, that changes so much. And so this type of activism, you know, it does start it just in the nuts and bolts of your. Your family, your life, your work as it is now, you don't have to go off to the monastery. In fact, the most opportunity for Growth is in that which is closest to you right now. Right. Whatever you're most deeply embedded in is, like I said, that's where you're going to see, like you said, the change show up. That's when it really matters. And having the continuity of a group, you know, has been transformative for me in my life because also, you know, is where I get to see it show up. Sometimes I'm so embedded in my life, I don't feel like anything's changed. But then I come in, I do some work with you guys in our group, and I'm like, oh, wow, I'm relating to that totally differently. Or I'm showing up, like, I have changed. It is different. Like, I can keep trusting myself in this process. And so it. It allows me to kind of see those changes in powerful ways in, you know, the, the suffering of so many men that there are so many forces pushing towards. You gotta suffer alone. Like, it's just. It breaks my heart. Part of the call here is like, yeah, like, you can step in. You don't have to be perfect. You don't have to have it figured out. You don't even have to know what the problem is. You just have to know. I want more. I want more vitality, more energy, more love in my life. That's all possible here. Sometimes we're in a acute mode and we just want to get out of the emergency situation and we work with those men. Sometimes we are with the men who are like, yeah, you know, things are okay, but I don't want to die with my life. Just okay. I want to die with my life. Like, fuck, okay. That had some ups and downs, but I went for it. I rocked it. That journey was worth it, right? And so many men, I think, actually crave that. It's just the level of distraction and comfort pushed on us constantly makes it so hard to even acknowledge I want more or this thing isn't working for me. And if we haven't had that modeled and we haven't been given that safe space to be able to presence and step into that, it just stays under the surface. And, you know, I know you literally see that showing up in people's bodies. Like, this stuff catches up to us as we age and it doesn't have to. As we've often talked about before.

Luke Adler: Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah.

Jason Lange: Just.

Luke Adler: Just feeling that, that kind of. I don't know. I, you know, I've. I've worked with so many people who have chosen not to step in and open up. Just, you know, as Like a medical provider. And of course, much of my career I've, I've just fought for everyone to wake up and everyone to kind of have this opening and, and realize that was an unsustainable path as a, as a healer to try to, you know, get everyone to wake up. It's like, okay, this is for folks who are ready and they want it. And then, you know, to watch people that I work with choose to not, not kind of break out of that shell and then die. You know, I've worked with a lot of death to watch a lifetime, watch a lifetime end. Having not chosen to, to face, to feel and to heal in a significant way. I don't know, I guess there's some grief. I used to really grieve this, but now I just see that that happens. That's something that happens. Of course, probably most of the time, lifetimes end without having faced a dynamic in life that was hurting. And I guess if you're listening to this, I really want you to know that we're serious and this isn't, this isn't a gimmick or something that we want you to like, give us your money and then we're gonna, you know, change your life kind of thing. And this takes a lot of work. What Jason and I do, we build our whole lives around this, meaning our healthcare, our relationships with our spouses, our kids, our careers at large are built in a way for us to have the energy to get close to deep pain and hurt. And we're really good at it. We've been doing this a long time. We can hold a very delicate space, a loving space. And I want to highlight a non shaming space where if you're up for it, you will have an experience of yourself in a way you may, may have never had. And if you've done work, you will feel something even deeper than you felt before. And it will lead to all the things that we're talking about because this is our lives, this is what we do. And we've chosen to put all of our chips into this basket because of the impact, the profound impact this work has had on our lives. And it's really cool. We've, we've, we've been running this program, this particular iteration of our offering going on two years now. And it's so exciting to meet with men and to watch them have the same liberative, connective experience every time and to see quickly, within two, three weeks, these guys are fully with each other and, and they have a sense. Not because we're telling them or brainwashing people in any way they're experiencing the power of connection. Disconnection is powerful. Isolation is powerful. You can create movements of murderous movements of destruction. We've seen this. I don't need to say them out loud. They're going on as we speak. Right. If we objectify each other, we can easily kill, literally kill one another off. So disconnection is powerful, but connection is even more powerful. Why? Well, because the core of who we are is connective. Underneath the hurt, underneath the sense of unworthiness, underneath the sense of like us and them. Black and white thinking is a longing to connect. Our core is about connection and love. And it's why connection will always win out against a disconnect of paradigm. Connection will always win. And it's because of that principle that Jason and I can get in there. We can get in there with the parts of ourselves that are really stuck, really married to being disconnected, really kind of entrenched in that. So if you're out there and you're in pain and this is resonating with you, take a leap. We're going to be offering this more and more, and our work's going to grow and grow and quite, quite quickly in the next few years. So reach out to us and, you know, join in. Join in with this work.

Jason Lange: Yeah, you can join the wait list for the next hard o Shadow [email protected] you can just drop your email in there and you'll be the first to know next time we open the doors on this program and community and style of work. And, you know, regardless, you can just start to step in right to your feeling that level of that connection that you're talking about, that that can always start with you and yourself. I'm gonna choose to connect to the fullness of my experience right now in my feelings. And that starts the whole engine for then how you can connect to others. And as you connect to others, that's what changes everything. Right? So that, you know, whatever pain you might be carrying, whether you're acutely aware of it or whether you just have that vague sense of, oh, man, it just. I don't feel at ease connecting to self in this way and feeling more. And the power of shadow work is it's the gateway in to so much more. And in our world, you know, it's the gateway to activism and how we actually change.

Luke Adler: It's just.

Jason Lange: One man at a time choosing, all right, I'm going to feel it. I'm going to feel it. I'm going to feel, I'm going to feel, I'm going to feel. And that ripples out. And we've seen it ripples out into families, careers, work. And, you know, we can't control a lot, but we can control that. We're doing our part there as individuals choosing to feel. So we'd love to hear from you, man. If you have any thoughts about this or any of our podcasts, certainly let us know. You can email me at jasonvolutionary. Men. And I think you have a contact form on your site. Yeah.

Luke Adler: Yep. Yeah, one will pop up if you come to lukeadlerhealing.com and we'll get back to you.

Jason Lange: Yeah, we'll get back to your thoughts. And like I said, you can also join the waitlist shadow.com and, you know, send this along to a man that you have a sense is ready for more. Yeah.

Luke Adler: Jason, fantastic. Thank you.

Jason Lange: Awesome. Till next time, if you're interested in working with me around dating, relationships or your masculine presence in the world, just go to Evolutionary Men. Apply.