Stories From Men in the Heart of Shadow (Panel Discussion)

All right, and welcome back. So, so pumped to be here in another Heart of Shadow podcast series with my co facilitator, Dr.

Luke Adler, and three very special guests today. We have two Sean's and a Michael, who we'll get to know here in a little bit that are all men that have run through our Heart of Shadow program and experience and journey. And we wanted to get them on today to talk a little bit about just what, what it was like from the inside. So some of you avid listeners have heard Luke and I talking, you know, for two years now about this stuff and sharing a bit of our journey. But we thought it'd be cool to kind of peek behind the curtain and talk to some, some real life guys who have been very dedicated to doing the work and turning towards the shadow material in their lives and in the context of an ongoing group.

Anything else you'd like to add to that, Luke, before we get get started here? You know, you're such a fantastic introducer. I'm so pumped right now. I actually am like, really looking forward to hearing from these three men who are, you know, I consider my friends and, you know, their insight. I think that was so insightful. Jason, you and I are like, you know, we're so gung ho about, about the work and I think it's, I'm really excited to hear from, from you guys.

You know, how's it been for you? What's the experience been like? What's the, the, the context of, you know, being open to wanting to look deeper at yourself, at your marriages, at your relationships, at your business. So I'm looking forward to this conversation. Yeah, I'm ready. Well, let's dig in. So I want to open up the floor here and we'll just kind of go one by one. Would love to hear from each of you just a little bit, you know, to the best of your reluction, recollection what was going on in your life that, that drew you to the program and, you know, who were you before, so to speak.

Anyone want to kick us off? Yeah, I don't mind going. Hey, everyone, Michael here. I discovered, Jason, your podcast. So I attended the Heart of Shadow last fall of 2023, and I kind of found you in the summer of 2023, and I was really feeling a lot of anger inside.

And I don't consider myself to be an angry person, but there was anger showing up in a lot of places that, you know, at work situations and yeah, I own a few businesses, so, you know, business situations, things that are out of my control.

And it was. Didn't feel good. You know, I think it was a certain level of anger that I've always had. But for whatever reason, last summer it was really coming up and it was really puzzling, like, what is going on? And I started just. I'm not even sure how I discovered the podcast, but I happened upon it and I, it hit me like, you know, I, I've done fair bit of work on myself.

This is. I did the math. It's been eight years now that I kind of want to first took a leap into something and have made significant growth and progress over that time. But at that moment in time, summer 2023, I. I felt like it's. It was time to do something significant like a. Like a deep dive into something. And. I signed up for Shadow.

Honestly, I didn't know what I was getting into. I, I knew. I, I had a good feeling from you, Jason. And the. I, I hadn't really heard much from. From Luke as much, but I, I just. It just felt right to me and I felt called to go do this and I just. I just took a leap and went out there. So that was where I was before going out there.

I remember. Yeah, I remember. Mike, this is Luke. I remember when we had been doing the online calls, you know, for four or five. Four or five calls. Then we got to the retreat and you had some question like, are we just going to be doing the same thing that we were doing online? And then I think you were one of the first people to do some work. Yeah, I mean, you had a certain experience and then I think you. You had some realization like, oh, this is.

This is. Something different is happening now that we're in person. And I was wondering if you'd be willing to share about that. Yeah, the. So the. When you say the. The work in. In air quotes to do the work and the, the shadow work specifically. I wasn't quite familiar what that was, but the. What's nice about this particular program is there are a number of gathering zoom gatherings before, because there's five before and you really get a chance to start bonding with.

With the other men. And it's, It's. It's a small group, so you get to know everybody Quite well. And it was almost like a practice. You know, we're practicing for the real thing. And we, you know, I was one of the first people both me and Sean with the first night. Both of us went and then took our turn with that shadow work on the first night.

And that was like, first feeling of like, whoa, what just happened? Kind of thing. You know, how did it. The shadow is. Is like you can't see your shadow usually because you're like it's behind you or something. The idea of it, but like, came up to him. Like, I, I didn't know that was there. Holy cow. And then, yeah, we got to the retreat and started diving in.

And most of the. The work is twofold. One, it's kind of on yourself. You have your. Your. Your time in the spotlight and it really deep dive in on yourself. And the more you're willing to dive in and sink in, the more benefit you'll get from it. And it does take a bit of. Of trust and bravery to step into that.

But what I want to call out is that Jason and Luke bring such grounded, trusting, warm, loving energy. And the way you facilitate the. The whole program, it just. You've, you know, you're in amazing hands and your.

Your ability, through the questions you ask, your ability to start peeling away the layers and getting deeper and deeper. And that's where the. The beautiful gold is. Is at that. That deep spot. So I felt extremely comfortable to go. To go deep onto that. And it was stuff that I, it was pretty powerful.

I. One of the most powerful experiences of my life because it. It dug into some stuff from my childhood that I didn't understand, I didn't know was there. I spent, you know, at that time was 49 years of life and living with something for that amount of time is. Was pretty difficult. And that process helped open that up and truly process again.

Like, it's like it is a process, but you are processing that shadow and that. The work to. To get that. That crap out of you. So part one is like the work on yourself, but then you as witness and participant. You know, you guys are the. Are the main kind of guide. But like all the other men there are.

There are supporting the process and. And participating in the shadow work of the other men there. So you have your. Your. Your. Your spotlight, but then you are helping the other men and diving in. It's like you're there with them and helping them process their stuff. And that is also amazingly powerful. And the bond that you create by doing that is. Is it is magical that you don't.

I don't think most men get that anywhere else. So, yeah, it was the. It was. I guess I'll stop there and see jump in, but it was pretty rad. Thank you for. For opening the space for us, Michael, and. And the many ways you did in the program and the treat and. And again, here, just being willing to dive in, you know, it's really foundational, that willingness to.

The work and why I. I think you had such beautiful movements and openings in it. Sean, or Sean, who'd like to tap in next here? Go. I'll raise my hand and go this second here. Actually, I've been. I've been. So I've been doing work, one former. For probably since the fall of 2017, so seven years now. And I've been in some other of Jason's programs throughout the last two or three years.

And I had. I was involved with some groups for the last year and a half or so that I was helping to facilitate. And I went to a Labor Day retreat and found some stuff that I was digging out. And then late last year, so I was in the. In the spring cohort this year, late last year, I just had this hole. I had left the groups I was working with and just didn't have a place to put or talk about or deal with the stuff that I was digging up that was coming up.

My wife actually had seen the growth that happened to some of the retreats I'd done, and she encouraged me. After I talked to Jason for a while, he's like, I got the thing for you. And I'm like, okay, let's see what this is like. And my wife was totally encouraging. She's really been excited with all the growth that's been going on. And so I jumped into the cohort just with both feet. Not really had an idea, but I really didn't know what shadow work was about. I mean, I've been introduced to it a little bit, but not.

Not to the point that I understood really what was going on. When we first met with our. With our group or the 10 of us, one at one. One of the 10 actually signed up. The day. Last day it closed. So he was really, really blinded. But, yeah, we jumped in, didn't really know what we were doing. I was one of the first ones like you, Michael, to jump in and just start experiencing this. This through the zoom calls. And it felt different than some other programs I've ever.

I've done before. It was more focused on the edges that I've got that I just have been blind to. And then we went to the retreat in February of last year. February. It was February, right. Okay. It's been a blur for six months. It's been an amazing blur, but it's been a blur. We got to retreat and it got, it got deep, it got serious, and it got really ex, like emotionally and energetically expanded.

It was just be able to dive in and jump in with a group of guys that I knew. You know, we had zoom calls and talked, but really didn't. There was some trust being built. We really didn't gain the trust until we were in a room together and just watching the come out. And I didn't realize how, how much anger and frustration and all this other stuff I've been carrying for so long. And that poor mattress, I'd beat the out of that thing for that long, but it felt so good to get that out.

And I'm still working through some of those angers and anguishes that had, was coming up, you know, that came up through that, that period. But it was, it was transformative. And when I came back from the retreat, my wife, you know, she, she felt a different energy from me. It was, it was, it was really opening for her that she could see the work and the growth I was doing, which allowed her to be able to take what she'd been dealing with, with the traumas from her past and, you know, from our, our marriage, and she was able to start working on those because she had, she could see the work I was doing and the movement I was making, which allowed her to make the movement she needed to make.

So we're kind of both on this journey, which has just been fantastically amazing for both of us, both individually and as, as a couple. We're, we're really seeing a huge growth. And I, I, I am totally committed to this program. You know, we've got, I wish I could say our whole cohort stayed, but, you know, everybody has their own growth path. And we've got a really strong core now of 7, 7 of 10, which is, which is not bad.

We stay connected. We get together every week, we go deep with each other. And this is a group of men that I can, I can call anytime, day or night. I can send out the bat signal. Somebody's going to respond. I don't know who it's going to be, you know, because we've all got our lives, but somebody's going to be there for me. And that is so. I've never had that before. And it's so comforting and so reassuring to me. You know, I've been in a show the last six months with my, with my personal life and my, and my, my business, my, my work, and just to have the camaraderie and that support and that, that group of men that's just there to hold me up, they don't, they're not trying to fix me.

They're not trying to, they're just there to witness and, and hold space. I can let go of all this stuff, and I've never had that before. And it's such an amazing experience. Yeah, just amazing. I, I, I cannot, I can't express enough how grateful I am to be able to, to have been gone through this part of the program and continue to work through this, this stuff with my guys, you know, that we are, we are a family, we're a brotherhood. At this point, I consider Jason and Luke, you the same. We're all part of this, this knit.

And the more I learned about Sean and Michael, we're just, just this thing that we're gaining and growing with. It's just so, I wish more men could, could experience what we've been through, be able to experience. So inspiring. Sean, I want to touch on kind of life after the program ends, which you, you touched on a bit, but let's hear from you, Sean H. And then, and then we'll have that conversation like, like life after the program officially ends.

Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Luke. So I joined the. Well, first I found out about the Shadow Work program through Jason's podcast and through his first retreat, which is the Evolutionary Men retreat. And I actually signed up for that on book retreats.com, which was kind of a strange way to find such powerful work in the first place. But I ended up on the Shadow group talking to Jason.

It really sounded like something that was lined up for me. There's this sort of general stuckness going on throughout my life. It felt like it been going on for a long time now, and, and there was just nothing that was really sort of moving me forward in the right direction or any direction. And it felt like there was just something inside of me that just was not letting go. It wasn't, it wasn't easing up on its grip. So through all the work with Jason and Luke, through the guys, it's been really transformative in me understanding what is deep down inside of me, driving me, as well as how to actually work with it rather than against it, because a lot of it was just, just, just almost pushing back day in and Day out and just exhausting myself and then finally just sort of embracing it, holding hands with it, hugging it, and then moving forward together.

And since the retreat, it's almost been a year. The group still meets every other week, and we've each individually, I've just seen such significant shifts that I think prior to a lot of these sessions, prior to the shadow group, prior to any sort of deep diving into your own psyche, I think some of these things would just cause some of these guys to crumble before in their past life.

And now it's almost like I get sort of a twisted pleasure out of jumping forward into the. The fire. A part of me feels like there's nothing that can really slow me down because I have the resources around me and within me that can really almost just like exponentially project me into a different. A different mental state, a different physical state. And I think a lot of it was just working through that shadow, just working through these.

Honestly, a lot of them are bizarre. To really think of how you've. How one can let these things just kind of drag you down. And then we finally turn around and look at it. You're just like that. That was the thing that's. You get a little upset, but then you just turn forward and start moving. And I think shadow work more than any other type. I've only been doing this work for about a year, but I've seen in myself things that, like I said, would have probably crumbled, crumpled me in the past are just sort of like, okay, that's fine.

I'm. I am water passing through a stream. I flow forward. I don't flow backwards. And a lot of that's due to what Luke and Jason have really set up for us, and we've carried that forward. Something you said, Sean. Kind of brought up for me this distinction of. Of shadow work. And you, I think you use the word crumpled.

Like if some of this stuff had come up before, you would have crumpled or you've seen other men just kind of collapse. And I think each of you said it, Michael, you said it and, And Sean did. You d. Said it. That being with the other group, being with a group of men and being in the space where you felt held, you felt safe, you were able to make contact with some deeper part of yourself. And because there was safety in the group, you were able to do something with that.

And I. And I want to highlight that to the default culture of what men and women live in, which is that for men specifically, if we are showing weakness, if we are Showing wimpiness. If we are showing incompetence, right. Insert superlative that aligns with that, then we have now collapsed as a man. We no longer have worth and value. And because part of shadow work, at least the way Jason and I run it, is we throw that whole paradigm out the door.

But of course, everyone has to start to buy into the fact that if I share, if I begin to share, and then, you know, start to face the unknown in me and then discover what's underneath, that I have to step past this whole veneer of, you know, you're a pussy if you feel. And of course that's. That's on high display in our culture right now with politics, like, right. There's a certain, certain ethos that says if you show emotion, you are.

You are fucking weak, man. Right. But you guys all touched on it. I just want to throw it back out there as just another question. How important was that for you? I know, you know, some of you guys have done work before, so you're used to it, but it's a big deal. It's a really big deal. Of course, I work with people every day who are just stuck in that paradigm. I cannot share because it would. It would go against everything I've taught to be as a man. So just wondering, I'd like you guys to just share what was that like as you started to trust each other?

Start what? And open up and then, you know, you guys have all continued. And then to have that kind of continue, we can move into that conversation over time as, as the group closes and you have to support one another. Sean H. If you kick us off on that. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Thanks, Luke. You know, the thing that comes to mind is that you start controlling your own story. You start controlling your own narrative. And whereas before it was, the narrative is just sort of handed to you and you just accept it and tolerate it and just internalize it.

But now it's. That idea alone does not even sit anywhere in my body anymore. Like, no one tells my story to me. That is the end of that statement. That is what it feels like now. Wow. Earth shattering. It's nice. It's actually makes things a lot harder sometimes.

But I mean, that's kind of like if it's not hard, it's. It's. It's going to be hard no matter what. Just choose your hard is what I like to hear. Well, such a contrast because, you know, you. You start to move into your late 30s, 40s, 50s, and if you haven't done work as A man. The level of anxiety and, and even kind of physical decay that starts to, to, to kind of take over the body is really intense.

You know, And I, I love the way you put it how, how Sean, that, you know, that whole story is gone and inside of it is this new story that, where you get to, you know, express and share really anything you want to and, and you're not living in this context of, of shame, that kind of, you know, machismo veneer. I want to hear more from you guys. So Michael, would you pick up that idea of like. Yeah. Being in a group of. Yeah.

So I, I, since I've been doing so much work in the previous years, I felt pretty comfortable diving in and I was one of the first ones to go at the retreat and I just went full on in and I, I like through my, that, that turn, I, I like dove into the deep end of the pool and just fully embraced it and just, you know, surrendered to the experience.

And some of the other guys later on told me that, that seeing me just go all in was helpful for them to say, oh, I can let loose here. And that made me think about, you know, as, as boys growing up and teens and then 20s and stuff. And you know, you, you get involved in things like sports or work stuff or some kind of challenge type thing, and it's in a way like, you kind of get rewarded for like, you know, going big or going home kind of thing.

Go do it and just really like, ah. And. But what's different here is that you're not like, you know, I'm gonna move this boulder and, or I'm gonna chop down this tree with an ax kind of thing. You're just like, you're just diving into your, your inner, inners and psyche. And once you dive in there and you start seeing what it's like to heal some of that, it's like, wow.

It's. I'm sure of all had the experience of just how amazing you feel after a workout, a good workout, or you do a race or climb a mountain or something physical. This feeling that you have after going through that deep shadow work, not only for that moment of, of when you're the spotlights on you, but also the other men and the whole container that you guys build for that three and a half days, it's that you're, it's.

I just got to use the word adrenaline rush, but it's not adrenaline. It's. It's like just this healing, flowing energy of like, oh, I feel alive and relieved. And there's something fresh and new here. You know, you've been carrying around this, this ball and chain or, or a big bag or something your whole life, and to be able to like, put that down and be free of that, that's amazing.

So, yeah, I, I, I encourage, man, if, if you're, if you've come as far as to listen to this podcast, you should go do this. Just go do it, man. You're not gonna regret it. It's, it, some of the, the best stuff you'll, you'll do in your life. Thank you.

Yeah. Beautiful, beautiful potent chairs and yeah, Sean, to kind of round things out here just in terms of, kind of discarding that old narrative of the masculine and being able to share and safety. What did you find or what was your experience of that through the program? Well, for me, you know, I've been, I'm gonna use the word groomed, but groom might be a good word modeled throughout my really young age, through hell, into my 40s, you know, no emotions.

Deal with it by yourself. Do not ask for help. You're a wimp and a wuss if you do, you know, deal with it. And then as I started getting to my recovery work, although we did open up and share personal feelings, we never got deep. It was always surface. And I never felt fully connected to anybody that I was working with or connected to through my 12 step groups and things like that. It was a place to release and kind of open up, but it was not a place where I could really explore what's down.

And for me, being able to really expose those really deep, deep, we're talking at the spine, spinal cord, way down there, deep stuff that I've been dealing with since I was just, I was, you know, some of this stuff, I was six years old and that was coming up and I, I found through some of the work, some of the emotions, some of the emotions and some of the physical things that I do or have done for my entire life, I discovered was connected to some of those traumas I had as a very young youth.

I subconsciously had no idea I was even doing it. And that came out in that exposure and that, that safety in that container that we had built, you know, on the retreat and just being able to cognitively witness, understand. I didn't even realize I do that. And it's connected to that and holy wow. So being able to process that stuff that's just been buried so deep where I, that I had been taught and just beat in.

Do not show emotion. If I Show emotion. I show feelings to get the shit beat out of me. And that wasn't the case. I was able to really express and relieve those tensions, and I've been able to carry those things on and those things that were kind of expressed and came up, I've been able to continue to work through some of those because there's some deep wounds. I think we all, as men, you get to 50, 55, there's a lot of traffic behind you. Grew up in the 80s, 70s and 80s.

There's a lot of stuff that happened we don't talk about. No pictures, no cameras. It didn't happen, but it did. And you know, some of the stuff that, that I dealt with as a kid, you know, and I can't, I can't blame the culture I grew up in, but it just, you know, there, we didn't talk about. We didn't deal with stuff. And now to be able to release that with, with men that I trust and I, I. Although they may not have the same experience. Exactly. There's empathy there, there's acceptance there. There's love there.

And I know they're going to hold me. And it's stuff I can't share with my wife. It's stuff I don't want to share with my wife because I don't want to burden her with those. She's not, you know, she's not there to carry my, my load. But somebody's got to help me get this stuff out, and I'm not gonna. I don't want to put that on her. So my men, my guys, guys are there to hold and help me work through these things, which I didn't have that opportunity before. And now I'm so thankful and so grateful that, you know, I just look forward to the next time we get together that, you know, we meet every Tuesday like clockwork.

We don't always make it all the time, but we're connected through other means and we're always in each other's thoughts, which is so powerful and so, so rewarding and so comforting to me. Thank you. And I want to get to what Luke mentioned about kind of the work post program, but I've one more thing I just want to kind of pull out of you guys. And this, this can be short because it's kind of ineffable. So. Right. We talk about the work and what happens, like in your experience or your feeling or what is it, what is it that happens in that circle when you step in?

You know, some men listening have never experienced this Work before, you know, are wondering, oh, you know, is it heady? Is it what's going on? I would just love to hear briefly from each of you, how would you describe what actually happens when you step in? Is it magic? It is. This is definitely not therapy. It's not, you know, this is not a, you know, a doctor prescribing or diagnosing.

It's, it's, it's. I've never experienced it before and I haven't like the, the specific process that you guys do and that, that modality, it's, it's magic. And I don't want to use that word too much because it is a specific process that, that, that works.

But I did want to get across as this is not therapy. This is something that gets massive results quickly. And yeah, I'll let the other guys. You have any other words or ways to describe it? I just want to interject. Thank you for saying that. I just want add one thing is that, and like Michael and Sean D, y' all both been in men's groups for a long time.

In fact, I think, Sean, you've led men's groups and I, and I do want to contrast. I think this is true, but you correct me. Okay, so just the contrast between a men's group where there isn't quite that magic. It's more like you're sharing the daily report, you're sharing the pains, and you use the word magic, Michael. And so something different happens in, in this work than I think in, in a lot of men's circles. And I, and I think that's what we want to try to flesh out a little bit.

So thank you for kicking that off, Michael. I would. Kind of similar to magic, like Michael said, I would say it's almost like you're stepping into an alternate timeline of events. And whereas in the previous timeline it kind of went probably not the way you wanted it to, this timeline, you're actually full embodied self. Your adult person is there in the room.

And it is, I think for a lot of guys, it's usually something from childhood that just sort of lingers. And this is your chance to sort of like, see what it feels like and find that alternate reality that, you know, you don't check out. You definitely don't check out. You're fully present. You are more present than probably any time in your entire life. And it's just sort of experiencing that duality and seeing what it's like, seeing what, how you actually feel in some of these kind of corrupted moments in your Timeline.

And that's kind of what I would. How I would describe what it's like to step into that circle. I'll piggyback on what you're saying, Sean. For me, it. It's. There's definitely. There's a component of physicality which for me helps to link that emotional piece and then. The, the cognitive piece that I, I'm not. I don't have to protect myself.

I don't have to. I can, I can. Whether it's break through the wall or peek over the wall, I can get. Or, you know, on the other side of that, of that wall that I built for so long, through the physical, through the emotional, through the mental, and expose that to a group of men that I feel safe around, that I've never. I couldn't before with, with these other groups I've worked with. It was all very topical, very report, how many days are you sober, blah, blah, blah, blah, where this was very, you know, for me, let's grab a mattress and beat the hell out, you know, until you can't move anymore.

For another guy, it was, you know, let's, let's put you on the mat and let's, you know, let's, let's touch, let's. Let's stand face to face with another man. And we're going to role play back and forth some of your things, just whatever the event for that particular person took. We went there and there wasn't. There was a lot of fear, a lot of anxiety, don't get me wrong. But because the group as a whole was there to support and protect, we were able to go through those things and face those fears and face those.

Face ourselves. As Sean was saying, face that alternate reality and try to repair those things and heal. Love that. Yeah, I love that too. I, I think as. As you three were speaking, I was starting to get this picture of. There's a. There's these moments in our past, whether they were long periods of time or a single event where there was stress, there was failure, there was, There was fear, pain.

And so our ability to stay conscious in that moment, it got reduced. And then when you bring that event or that part of your nervous system to a group of men who are not really here to give you advice about it, but just here to welcome you and love, put the energy of love in the space. It gives the nervous system an opportunity to allow healing and love into a, you know, into the body at a certain time in life when it wasn't allowed.

And I was just, I was just Kind of getting that in a way we're like using that word, Sean, alternate timeline. It's like taking a, it's like reclaiming the timeline for a more life affirming process. And there is something magical about that, like, how does this work? But it does work and it works every time. And I think it must have something to do with love and care because that seems to be the great explainer of, you know, things that are otherwise, you know, mysterious.

I want to honor all of your guys's time and just touch one more topic and, and that's this idea that Jason and I have gotten clearer about since Sean D. Your cohort, which is that, you know, Jason and I are zealots, we think, you know, why wouldn't you want to stay with this group forever? Because it's given so much to Jason and I. Right. Like the power of a context that allows you to, to keep healing if you want to. And what Jason and I have realized is that just that 10 week experience is so powerful and so transformative that that can stand on its own.

And some men will do that and go, wow, that was, that was amazing. And that's kind of where I want to, I want to just take that and absorb it and to, to continue to go on with a group. Either I can't fit that into my life or I just, I, I don't want to keep this level of healing active. And not that, not that it remains at this level you find a normal, normalcy. But I'd love to hear from you guys, you know, why you decided to keep going with the group.

What was it like to have some guys choose not to continue navigating that process and kind of ultimately why, you know, why it's important to you personally? This might be a very personal answer, but I'd love to hear because I think a lot of men are attracted to the work because they want that long term group and some men don't. So we just want to make that clear right from the outset. Them. I'll jump in definitely for me on a, like we, we, we had our whole group and a few, few guys peeled off.

So we do have a pretty good core right now. And it, for me it es and flows like sometimes I'm, I'm really like into it. Other times I was like, I'm not really into it, but I still want to be, be there for the other guys too. But it, there is, it's not necessarily deep in work all the time, but it's, it's having a, a Bond connection with a group that understands, has been through something together is, is unique and special.

And Sean mentioned before how he can put out a call at any time and say, hey, I'm having a real hard time. And I've done that. I've definitely done that. And other guys have, you know, jumped on a call or phone, whatever, and it, it does help to. In the moment before waiting to the next. For the next group. So it is a great lifeline to have.

I'll jump in here. Shortly after we ended our, our 10 week group and we kind of set our norms for our, our cohort. We had, we had three guys leave and it was painful, it was hard because we, we'd shared these experiences, but we also understood that everything happens in a season. And you know, like you'd said, Luke, you know, it just.

They, they done what they needed to do in this piece and they're, they're moving to a different. And we still, you know, there's one, one gentleman that we stay close to. The other two kind of peeled off and they're, they're going about their own things, which is awesome. And we support them. We still connect a little bit and try to try to just, you know, send positive vibes out there, but they're not in the week. In the weekly group, There was something else I was gonna, I was gonna state. You know, for me, I stayed in this because I've never had the opportunity to be this tight with a group of men before.

And I continue to find things and the more shadow work I do, the more things get exposed and little things. A couple weeks ago, I was just. I was uptight, twisted tighter than tight. And through our weekly group, the group was able to kind of pull me back into reality and kind of get me back to where I wasn't. I could breathe again. I wasn't. My pulse rate was 195 and my blood pressure through the roof, I was able to kind of process some things.

It turns out there was a piece of work from a deep dark shadow that was just expressing itself and I needed to work through with the guys. I have no other way to do that. These guys get me. They're able to because of some of the training things we've learned how to, how to kind of coax these things out and coach each other and work out all of our issues, not all of our issues, but be able to bring, bring the stuff to the surface and help. Help our brothers, you know, kind of expose this thing.

So I, I'm in it. I'M in for the long haul. There's a few of us that we call each other on. Sound like, you know, are you gonna be there when somebody can't make it? It's like, yeah, sorry. We're gonna miss you. Here's what's going on. We'll make. We'll calm. Just to make sure everything's okay. Just because we've got that connection that. That love for each other that I just don't have any other. This is going to sound so bad. I really don't care to have this with anybody else. But this group, this group of guys, this. This is. These are my men, and we're going to go to the grave like that. So I'm excited about that.

I can add a little. Sean had a. That was pretty good. Sean and Michael. I've been. Michael and I are still in the same group. We lost a couple guys, and first one was, you know, a lot harder than the following. And you just kind of realize, like, everyone's on their own path. You can't really force it. And you can really just open it up for them and be. Be there. The guys that left, I know that if one of them shot me a text and asked anything of me, I would.

I would be there for him. The bond is that tight, especially with what really, that retreat weekend is about and, you know, looking far down the road. Ten years from now, who knows where I'll be? Who knows where Michael will be? Within our own group, our own cohort. And that's okay because I've created incredible bonds with people that have. That basically started from nothing at. On day one and then was just catapulted at the retreat.

And now we all. We all know each other at a pretty seriously deep level. And you can't really let that go, even if you're not in the group. And for that reason, I think, like, just the group alone is great, and we meet every other week, but. It's just nice to know that it's there too. It's nice to know that you. You can work through your own, on your own to a good degree, but it's.

It's good to get that. That sanity check from guys that have gone through it. And that's one of the huge benefits, especially at this point. So that's. Yeah, that's kind of my takeaway from. From where we are now a year later. You guys are rad. Thank you for sharing that. And I wanted to just let you all know, I think I've said this to you, Sean. D that, you know, in understanding that process, more of men wanting to continue in men just feeling complete that we've gotten clear, Jason.

I've gotten clear that even if a man chooses to not continue with their group, they're still always welcome and always part of the heart of shadow men's community. And so I love that you said that. I think you both said it. If a man who, you know, had left wants to come back or check in, that that feeling is there. And, and I think you. That's what we really realize now is that, that this container is always open, you know, so for any of the men who have. Who've are not hanging around, there's.

You're still welcome to come back, you know, and we've got a really cool alumni event we're going to do next June for the whole, the whole cohort, for all 50 men who will have done it by then. Anyone who wants to come back, we only have 10 or 12 spaces, but that, you know, you can come back and dive in again. And you know, that, that we do have this long term vision for supporting the work, like you said, Sean, until we, you know, put each other in the ground, because we recognize that this, this is the work life asks of us.

And then, you know, you either have to work really hard to not do the work or you have to work really hard to do the work. Either way, you're going to work your ass off. And one path is like, really rich and connective, and the other one's basically the opposite of that. So I'll pass it back to you, Jason, and put in some good time tonight. So, yeah, thank you guys so much for the time you've brought forward here and sharing your stories to kind of demystify this a little bit for other guys who might be on the fence and that, you know, part of what inspires Luke and I is the fact that you each chose to step in.

I'd step into the work, step into the circle, step into your group. You have made it easier for future men to step into that circle. And that's one of the ways you guys are leaders. Like, I say that very seriously because, yeah, nobody made you do this work, right? You chose, you said, you know what, that I want to do something different. And to me, that is, you know, the highest order of service in the world. In a sense that you took responsibility. And the work we do, you know, it's ever evolving and changing, but, you know, Luke and I are just so passionate about it being also connected to life in the day to day.

Like, how's it showing up in your relationship? How's it showing up in your job? How's it showing up in your family? And I know you have all had some pretty significant milestones and shifts in those arenas in the last years since you've done the program, which to me is just a testament to, you know, the work you're doing. So for men that are out there listening, you know, I hope this gave you a hit of what's possible. We run the Heart of Shadow cohort twice a year. We do have another one coming up this fall of 2024 is when we're recording this now. Luke, as always, thank you for your counsel. And until next time, if you're interested in working with me around dating relationships or your masculine presence in the world, just go to Evolutionary Men. Apply.