What if the very thing we've been taught to avoid as men is actually the key to our freedom? I got to sit down with the Relatable Wisdom podcast to explore something that's been central to my life for almost 20 years now: men's groups and why we're not meant to do this alone.
We covered the two quotes that guide pretty much everything I do. First, every man should be in a men's group. I really believe that. Men's groups have transformed my life more than anything else I've tried, therapies, plant medicines, you name it. Second, your angst is your liberation, from my old Zen teacher Junpo Roshi. This one's about turning toward our discomfort instead of running from it. That willingness to get intimate with what scares us or makes us anxious is often what sets us free.
I shared my own journey, starting my first men's group back in 2006 when I was pretty lost in my mid-20s. Anxious, numb in my body, no real direction. Those groups helped me move across the country to pursue filmmaking, navigate intense relationships, get married, become a father. More than anything, they've helped me understand what I'm actually feeling and wanting, which is something most of us men are never taught how to do.
We talked about why men come to this work. Usually they're in some kind of pain, a relationship ended, a job lost, health crisis, addiction. The problem is we're taught to hold all that pain inside and never talk about it. That creates profound loneliness. The stats are brutal: 80% of suicides are men. This lone wolf mentality doesn't work. In nature, the wolf kicked out of the pack dies first.
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Jason Lange: Your angst is your liberation. Men's groups have been the thing, more than anything else, that actually changed my life. The point is that men are in some kind of pain, and most of us men are taught to hold all that pain inside and never talk about it or share it. Actually going. Going towards our discomfort and pain is often the actual route to freedom.
Host: Welcome to Relatable Wisdom, the podcast wherever people share timeless ideas. I'm your host, Wisdom. In every episode, we dive into the philosophies, quotes, points, and life lessons that shape how we live, think, and grow. No matter where you are in life, this show is here to remind you wisdom is everywhere, and it's always relatable, oftentimes. Today on Relatable Wisdom, we're joined by Jason Lange, the men's embodiment coach and transformational guide. From loneliness to deep connection. Jason, journey through men's work and group dealing as we define what it means to live with purpose it here to share quotes that changed everything for him. Let's start. Can you tell us your name and what's your favorite quote?
Jason Lange: Yeah, so my name's Jason Lange, and quote I want to share tonight is actually the. The quote I kind of run my men's community around, and it's the simple idea that every man should be in a men's group. And it really points to this idea of something I lead for men, something I'm in myself, in my own life, of men's groups, which are a type of community men can cultivate with each other to transform our lives, our presence, and how we're showing up in the world.
Host: Just to be clear, what's the quote again? Every month should be in the manuscript. Is that the quote?
Jason Lange: Yeah, that. That. That's a quote I use that I tell everybody. That is kind of a mission statement of mine in. In a particular way. That's one of my favorite ones. I have other quotes from, you know, other people, if that's something you're interested in. One of my other favorites is your angst is your liberation, which comes from a Zen teacher I. I worked with, which is about our willingness to turn toward emotional discomfort or worry and actually sit with it often is what opens us up to profound transformation and a different ability to be present in the world that then actually shapes a lot of the work I tend to do with men.
Host: Yeah, you said the quotes. Can you say it again? I heard it, but I wasn't exactly sure why I had the first time.
Jason Lange: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've said two quotes so far. One is every man should be in a men's group. And the second is your angst is your liberation.
Host: Yeah, yeah.
Jason Lange: So it's this idea that our, right, our angst, our, our anxiety, oftentimes by default, we want to get away from it and try to not feel it or avoid it. And from this Zen teacher, his name was Junpo Rochi Roshi, he was actually orienting towards, no, don't try to get away from it. Get really intimate and present to it. And oftentimes our willingness to go towards that discomfort can be the very thing that completely frees us and changes us in our lives.
Host: Yeah, you, you, you talk about every man should be in a men's group. When did you like. It's, it's, you say it's your mission statement. It's one of the quotes you share with people. When did you come to this realization, this mission statement? How far back and what led to it?
Jason Lange: Yeah, I, I started in my own personal journey and I got into my first men's Group in 2006. And so it's been almost 20 years, which is kind of wild to consider.
Host: Oh, yeah.
Jason Lange: That I've been doing men's work. And I was in it just personally from my own development. I was in my mid-20s and I was pretty lost and pretty stuck. I had a lot of anxiety, a lot of numbness in my body. I wasn't clear on my direction in life. I, I was really uncomfortable relating to the opposite sex and I felt stuck. I'd never really had strong masculine guidance in my life. My father was kind of able to provide for me, but he wasn't able to be present for me. And so I had to kind of discover this stuff later in life. And I did a lot of things right. I did therapies, I did different transformational programs. I've done plant medicines. And men's groups have been the thing more than anything else that actually changed my life. Cultivating some really deep, powerful connections with other men who are driven in their lives to become the most whole effective versions of themselves they can be in the world. So I got into that in my mid-20s. And then it wasn't until probably about 12 years later that I had been doing my own group so much that I was just talking about it to everyone I knew. It's like, I'm in this group, we meet every other week. It's been amazing. It's helped me through some massive life challenges. And then I had guys starting to ask me, hey, can I come to your group? Like that sounds amazing. I don't have anything like that. And literally where I was meeting, I was living in Los Angeles at the time. One of the guys in my group was a therapist, so he had a small office and we would meet in there, but there wasn't room for more than eight guys. And so it was around 2017 that I thought, okay, well, maybe I'll start leading groups. And I started leading them out of my living room, giving other men an opportunity to experience them. And I liked that so much. And I saw the impact it was having on my life, my friends lives, and then these men's, the lives of men I was working with. And it started to become really clear in this day and age where a lot of men are feeling really isolated, really depressed, get really stuck, a big part of what they're missing is connection and community with other men who aren't going to shame them or make fun of them or knock them down, but actually support them in building the life they want to build.
Host: Yeah. Can you share specific stories where being a part of a men's group has kind of like helped you kind of overcome?
Jason Lange: Yeah, it's helped me in some pretty huge transitions in my life, the first of which was in my 20s there to move across the country and pursue a passion, going to LA and working on becoming a filmmaker and creating a whole bunch of art that I'd always wanted to do, but I was kind of scared to do. My men's group really guided me towards, hey, if you leave that on your hey, I want to do that, but I'm never actually going to do it list, you're going to regret it. Right. So now's the time if you're going to, if you want to do this, you actually have to get out there and do it. And so I moved out there for 14 years and had a wonderful experience creating and learning about myself and making amazing art. And then as I got out there, I started another group and that group helped me transition through some pretty intense relationships I was having. It was with the support of that group, I got married, I had my first daughter, now I've had my second son. Being part of men's groups with other men who are fathers, particularly fathers who are a little farther along on the path than me, has been incredibly meaningful and helpful because, you know, when I first started, I didn't know what I was doing. There's suddenly this. They give, give. You have this baby and it's like, ah, having older wise men say, hey, yeah, you know, I've been There I know how overwhelming it is. I know how scary it is. Here's what worked in my family, you know, maybe that'll work in your family. Completely helped me change things and it's helped me probably in more of a general sense become more connected and aware of myself. So really understanding what I'm feeling and what I'm wanting. That capacity has developed from being in a group of men who are willing to lovingly reflect what they're seeing in me and how I'm showing up in the world. Host: Oh, oh, I love the array. The list of, you know, testimonials, kind of like case studies and stories. So I guess the question I want to ask now is, has there ever been a time where you've had to, like, adapt or kind of like change the quotes to. To fit the context of the story?
Jason Lange: That's a good question with those two in particular. No, I would say those. Those are pretty straightforward. What, What I would say is, you know, I've had to change over the years, and my understanding of those quotes has deepened in terms of really seeing the impact of how they can both really work together, frankly, to completely change and power men's lives. You know, there's been other quotes I was probably interested in over the years. I can't even, frankly remember them at this moment. But those are two of the big ones that, you know, I tell. It really tend to.
Host: To.
Jason Lange: To both teach men and embody myself.
Host: Yeah, I'm curious regarding second quotes. Right. You talk about we have to let our arms go to can.
Jason Lange: It's a pathway to our liberation.
Host: Yeah, it's a pathway to our liberation.
Jason Lange: So actually going, going towards our discomfort and pain is often the actual route to freedom.
Host: Yeah, yeah. Can you. Yeah, I guess I get what it means. But I love for you to like in the street with a story, probably your story or the client's story, either way.
Jason Lange: Yeah, absolutely. So this would be a common one where, you know, let's say for me, I might be scared about something with my kids or in my relationship. You know, there was a time when my daughter was born and turns out she's totally deaf. And we didn't, you know, know when she was born. It took, it took a month or two. And when we discovered, you know, it brought up a tremendous amount of fear in me of what's her life gonna be like, right, if she can't hear, if she can't participate in kind of spoken language in society. And so old me, old me from a few decades ago would have in my case primarily turned to like, porn when I was feeling anxious and tried to get away from the fear of those feelings. And it would often not actually address the fear. It would just give me a little temporary relief and then it would come right back. But with this kind of quote, the idea is, well, instead of hoping or pretending this would be different, or trying to get rid of this feeling, what would it mean to actually sit with the fear, to become present and not hide it, to talk to my wife about it, to talk to the appropriate specialists and friends and family and say, yeah, hey, here's this thing. I'm not scared of it. And that tended to free something up in me. Other things I found, you know, in my journey would be, this is kind of more the shadow work side of things, of, oh, there's something, something, let's say a person. These are guys I've known in the past that I really don't, I don't like. I get super annoyed when I'm around this person, right. And normally I'd want to avoid that person, right, because, ah, when I'm around them, it annoys me. This, the pathway to this would be, well, what's going on there? Right? Instead of pretending or trying to get away from that, let me look at why is it I'm so annoyed by this person? You know, maybe it's a person who talks a lot. Quite. This is a simple example of stuff I've had to deal with. Like, okay, why don't I like that person? And as I sit with the angst of that, what I understand is I'm actually triggered by them Talking a lot because I don't feel confident to speak my truth all the time. Right. So I'm actually jealous of that person how much they easily speak their truth. And so by sitting with the angst and going deeper, I actually see it's not this guy that's the problem, it's me, and I have control over that. So. Oh. My job is to just use my voice more and then I won't feel so intimidated by him or whatever that might be.
Host: Yeah, yeah. I mean, we have to practice. We have to get into the crowd.
Jason Lange: Yeah, exactly.
Host: I like the fact that you say that we have to let go of the angst because previously on the episode, I guess said that we have to do these scary things in order for us to grow. Everything's just kind of tying together and that's itself. It's beautiful.
Jason Lange: Yeah. That's another example of. Right. If something scares us, rather than trying to avoid it, we move towards it and we actually become more intimate with it and then we become free of it.
Host: Right, Exactly. Yeah. Well, before. Do you have any. Anything peculiar you would love to share to my listeners right now? I can advice that you love to.
Jason Lange: Sure, yeah. I'd just say, you know, particularly for the men out there, you don't have to suffer alone. Right. So there's this thing that is driven into most of us men that are showing emotions is weak. And what I say to those men is, most of the men that I've ever met, that kind of have that macho exterior, that deride, that kind of feeling, they're actually just afraid. They're afraid of being present with their grief. They're afraid of being present with their fear. They're afraid of being present with some kind of rage they have inside. The pathway to liberation as a man is just to become closer and more intimate with your whole self and you don't have to do it alone.
Host: Right.
Jason Lange: This lone wolf mentality that so many men have driven into them, it doesn't work. It causes men to become lonely, suicidal, and, you know, in nature, the wolf that's kicked out of the pack is the one that dies first. We need community and connection. Including men doesn't mean it we become weak, pushover victims or anything. Just means with the support of the right brothers at our side, we can actually get more of what we want in the world. So don't suffer alone. Find a man who can support you.
Host: Yeah, well, it's, it's, it's. It's amazing how you don't know the significant impact of having a system or accountability or group of people who can keep you on your toes. Honestly, that's for me, it's. It's more like.
Jason Lange: That's right.
Host: Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and for sharing your favorite quotes and, yeah, some of the stories. Where can listeners learn more about what? You can check.
Jason Lange: Yeah. If you're interested in learning more about me men's work, men's groups, you can go to the website of mine, Evolutionary Men. So not dot com, but Men, and you can learn everything you probably ever wanted to learn about this kind of stuff and some of the different ways we can actually be in the world as men, that's a lot easier. And some of the techniques for actually getting closer to our angst and liberating ourselves and finding other men who can support us.
Host: Well, once again, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I know my listeners will get a ton of value from this.
Jason Lange: Awesome. Thanks so much, Wisdom.
Host: Thanks for listening to Religible Wisdom. You found something meaningful in this episode. Make sure to follow and subscribe wherever you're listening. If you'd like to support the show, you can do that by buying a coffee. The link is in the show notes. Every little bit keeps the conversations going. I'm your host, Wisdom Konko, and I will see you in the next one. Until then, stay curious, stay inspired, and keep growing.
