Why Every Man Needs A Men’s Group: Brotherhood, Healing, And Masculinity | Couple O’ Nukes: Self-Improvement For Mental Health, Addiction, Fitness, & Faith

Jason Lange: Constantly exhausted and stressed. Introducing Exodus, the biblical supplement with seven divine ingredients for real wellness. Featuring organic barley grass, wheatgrass, aloe, saffron, cumin, frankincense and myrrh. Plus a mineral blend that generates healing molecular hydrogen experience more energy, less inflammation and enhanced performance. Exodus is your path to total rejuvenation. Try risk free with our 60 day guarantee.

Host: Use the custom link in the description below to start your journey. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Kapoor Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey. And a few months ago, quite a while now, I had an episode called to be a True Man. A few months later, I had an episode to be an Extraordinary man and now today, how to be Men. Now, the difference between all of those is that what we're talking about today is not the singular, it is the plural. Those past two episodes, which I highly encourage you to check out, talk about a man and how to be a man within your life, whether it's your marriage, your work, single, you know, single focus. But today we're going to focus on what happens when men come together, when we help one another, we support one another, and when we're vulnerable with one another. And we're actually going to talk about one thing briefly mentioned in a previous episode, which is the idea of men's support groups. No, not aa. We're talking about going out on a retreat together or just forming peer groups of some sort to hold each other accountable, to relax, for one thing, and to help each other out. And today we have a man who has benefited greatly from that man, whose journey is similar to how most of us feel as men. There's a lot of stoicism resulting in loneliness, in stress, in burdens that are heavier than they need to be, as well as even sometimes discomfort in our body due to just the demands put on us as men to be protectors and providers and strong. But we also live in a time where the definition of man has been just pulled in so many directions that a lot of us are feeling confused about which way do we go and who do we be. So we have Mr. Jason Lange here to help us out with that a bit. So, Mr. Jason, would you please go ahead and introduce yourself for us?

Jason Lange: Yeah. So pumped to be here. Thank you for having me. So I have come to this work. You know, I facilitate and lead men's groups now, but it really was born out of my own journey, my own personal story, right. Of grew up a white guy in the lower middle class of the United States and had pretty Much, you know, all my basic security needs met. But as I aged into teenage dumb and beyond quickly discovered, oh, wait, my house didn't have any emotional connection. And honestly, physical connection, no interiority, no, like, presence with each other. And as I got into the. Out into the world as a, you know, teenager and. And beyond, I discovered I had no idea how to connect, particularly with women in my case, but to a large extent, other men, and was walking around stressed out and anxious and uncomfortable in my body and not even knowing what I was feeling in my body. And that kind of kickstarted a whole journey of inner growth and transformation for me that culminated in discovering men's work and men's groups and getting into men's communities and finally getting something I desperately needed that has been so transformative in my life. Now I'm incredibly inspired and passionate about bringing it to other men because the truth is, right, a lot of men out there right now are hurting, are really, really alone, really confused, in a lot of pain and not sure how we're supposed to be in the world. So everything you. You teed up there is a big part of, I think, part of what men's groups and men's community can really start to address.

Host: Yeah. And so, Mr. Lang, to really, you know, relate with our audience here and connect with them, could you please tell us about, you know, your first time discovering a men's group, kind of how that happened and then just your first experience and then, you know, bring it to today. It's become a more routine thing. Obviously it's not a big shock, but of course, for a lot of us who had never been before, we're very curious what it was like for your first time going to something like this.

Jason Lange: Yeah. You know, I think the story that first comes to mind is in what I think can be so potent about men's groups and men's community was I got introduced to a group and was pretty lucky in that I found this in my mid-20s, which a lot of men find much later in life. But the first group I was in, I was sitting in it and it was being facilitated by an older man who was probably in his late 60s at that time and had done a lot of work on himself and in the world. And I was sitting across from him, watching him, facilitate, hearing him, experiencing him. And even though know I was in my mid-20s, I had this experience in my body of, oh, that's what I want to be when I grow up. And it wasn't about, like, what's his job, what's he doing? But it was, this is how I want to be. The way he's speaking, how grounded he is in his presence, how open he is, how he's dealing with conflict in the group. I was like, whatever that is, I want that. Like. And it can really be traced to what I noticed was when I was in his presence, I relaxed, I felt more grounded, more calm just by being around him. And one of the great gifts men's work and men's community can have is, I like to say, masculinity is a transmission. And what that means is we discover what it is in our bodies by spending time around it. And one of the great pain points in our cultures right now is a lot of men never have the opportunity, a lot of boys in particular, to spend time with older, wiser men. You know, in most indigenous cultures around the world, they have literal rites of passage, right, where boys are transitioned into adulthood, into manhood. And a big part of that is spending time with men who start to guide them, who start to show them who they get to have the experience of being around. And that's pretty radically been eliminated for a lot of our Western culture in the world in particular. And we end up going to school, and it's changed a lot. But, you know, a lot of school teachers are women. And there's just a lot of factors that have kind of changed. The fact that again, you know, and that way back in the day, right, you became a. A young adolescent boy, you would start to spend time with dad or uncles or men in. In. On the farm or in the village, and you would. You would shadow them in their work, and you. You'd get that actual connection. Things really changed in the Industrial Revolution when dad suddenly went off to the factory to work, and they were gone most of the day, and you might come back at the end of the day and you'd see him briefly. So, point being, there's this kind of big gap in. Men's groups are a huge access point for us guys to start to get connected in these ways, to discover what it is we actually want to be in. In how we show up in our nervous systems. So in my first groups, I was going in there and I had this radical experience of seeing men fully expressing their anger, but there was never a moment around them I didn't feel safe or seeing a man fully release into grief and tears. But by him doing that, I actually trusted him more and found he was even more powerful. Or seeing a man speak to his fears or asking for help and all these things I'd been taught you should never do as a man. You should never be vulnerable. You should never be weak. Anger is dangerous. Like started to reformat in my brain of like, oh, wow, there's a whole different way to be here that no one ever taught me. And turns out it looks a lot easier than what I've been doing of holding it all inside and what many men do of. Because we're never given the tools for how to identify our inner world, what's happening for us emotionally, what we're feeling, let alone what to then do with that when we don't have those tools. And we're raised in a culture of keep it all in, be a tough man. We have to turn to things outside of us to help us regulate ourselves, be that alcohol, weed, sex and porn, food, overworking, you name it. There's different things that men in particular, if we're not feeling good inside, we'll reach for something outside to try to make ourselves feel better. And men's group was the first place I was ever introduced to. Wait. There's a different way to deal with that stuff. And it's head on. It's actually head on. You turn right towards it. And it completely changed my beliefs around. Oh, you know, a vulnerable man is not a weak man. The man who's willing to just walk right into his emotional self and feel it fully. That's a very courageous man. The man who's afraid of that, he's actually living way more out of fear. So my first groups just completely changed my experience in myself and what I knew men could be.

Host: Yeah, for sure. You know, you talked about not spending time with fathers or other male figures, and I think that is so true and relevant. And it's interesting because if you look at America and you look at the south and the west, in how they spend time with their fathers or uncles or brothers or cousins compared to up north and then all the way West. It's very interesting to see some of those patterns. But I want to focus on what we've talked about before on the show, which you mentioned through that statement, is the lack of mentorship for our youth nowadays. And you brought up a great point that the public education system is primarily where women teaching. Like you said, there are men teaching, there are more men teaching, but it's still primarily women. And I think that's a very interesting point. And with social media, you're talking about if we're not surrounded by men at home, and a lot of the youth are, you know, living in this online world, what kind of men are out there? And we've talked about a lot of different examples of men influencing my generation and the younger generations on social media. And it's interesting, when it comes to masculinity, we've talked about, you've got the two sides and the two very extremes. There's no balance. You have on the super masculine side, you've got David Goggins, Andrew Tate, and then even Patrick Bateman. You've got, whether they're fictional or real people, you have those very extreme forms of masculinity. And then on the other side, you have masculine men who are, I'll say, overly effeminate. You know, they're very. They're whatever it may be, right? And you guys can imagine what that is. So it's very interesting to see how that influences us as well. And that's why I always push for people getting mentors. And this involves as well, a lot of divorces are happening, or there's just a lot of broken homes. And the man they're observing, if they do have a father, is typically a broken man, or if he's in a toxic relationship, they're observing how he's treating a woman. And it might not be a good example. You know, and speaking of relationships, I did want to get into, you talked about having some troubles with relationships, and I think that's something very relatable to a lot of men. And I know nowadays for the younger generations, the dating game has completely changed with online dating with just that alone is a huge game changer. But just the culture around dating has shifted in a lot of different ways. But I think some of the base issues that you were having are still relatable to a lot of men today. And if you could talk about what those were and how that has changed over time through the men's support groups. Host: Yeah.

Jason Lange: And then we've been raised in these last decades of actually seeing, you know, coming to the surface in our culture, many examples of how damaging disconnected men can be and how they can use their sexuality to hurt people. So there's a whole generation of men who then also were sometimes raised by their mothers or by women who are like, yeah, this is how this man hurt me. That these men internalize that of, well, I don't want to be that. Yeah, be that guy. I don't want to be the dick. I don't want to be the objectifier. I don't want to be the macho jerk. And so what often happens, and I had a little bit of this as well, is we disconnect from our sexuality, from our power, from our desire, from our drive, because we don't want to be a negative force in the world when it comes to our masculinity. And that causes a lot of problems because then we are actually disconnected from something primal, and that's part of us. And it's where a lot of guys I work with kind of get stuck in that more nice guy energy of everybody's best friend. But, you know, nobody wants to date me. And part of the challenge of that is there's very few role models in our culture for what a healthy, integrated man is. And I had never seen that. Right. So I was uncomfortable in my body. I was uncomfortable around women. In my case, I was uncomfortable with my sexuality. And so that showed up right in my interactions. I just didn't feel comfortable. I felt nervous. I felt clammy. I didn't know how to talk to women. I didn't know how to approach women. And lo and behold, I had a hard time connecting with women then. And it took me many years into my 20s to kind of get to the root of that, which for me really did go back to early childhood.

Host: Right.

Jason Lange: I just. I was a pretty neglected kid. I was not touched, I was not held. So my nervous system was deeply uncomfortable with that. And it wasn't until I worked that that I felt much more comfortable in my body, able to Just approach a woman and share my attraction for her. Not in a needy way, not in an abusive way, not in a domineering way, but just in a, hey, I'm interested in connecting with ua. And that transformed quite a bit for me. And I think that's pretty heavy in our culture now as it's being kind of mashed together, like you said, with technology and online dating and social media and the dissolution of a lot of the actual physical places we used to meet and stay connected to people in our local communities. Right. Where, you know, the hardest thing for a lot of men I work with is the so called cold approach. Approaching a woman you've never met before and sharing your attraction with her. Right. And it is challenging because, you know, it's, you're bringing a lot forward there. But the truth is, for most of human history, it wasn't a cold approach.

Host: Right.

Jason Lange: Somebody was part of your family, your tribe, your community and there was a little connective tissue and at some point you were just in that, you know, kind of initiating. Yeah, a next level of that. For a lot of people these days, it's a lot more cold. You know, as it's moved online dating, it's like, you know, you have a couple of seconds to swipe someone and make a judgment about them based solely on these exterior factors. And it's pretty well documented. Just, you know, the way things have worked out. It's very uneven online, right? Yeah. Less than 10% of the men will get, you know, 90% of the matches from women. And if a woman goes online and, you know, makes her profile available, I've talked to many women who this is true. Within a day they can get thousands of messages, really thousands of messages of people wanting to connect with them that there's no way they can fully process and sort in a, in a meaningful way. And on the other side, you know, your man, you can send out thousands of messages and never get a reply. And there's like kind of an imbalance in that world that can be really painful for a lot of guys. That it's not that online dating is impossible, but I tend to really work with men. Of how can you get around women in physical meat space, reality? Where are you actually putting your body? What are your passions? What are your hobbies? And lo and behold, that's what worked for me. Right. And so part of what I teach men now is, you know, you got to create a life you love doing things you love and you start to do that and you're going to start to Meet women who love to do the things you love to do. And there's often a kind of a more natural outgrowth of that. So like my wife, I, you know, I cold approached at an event that was based on consciousness and transformation and stuff I was super into. And so we had a little shared reality there of, you know, who each other were. And I was able to just walk up to her and introduce her, myself to her. And it took me a while to do that work.

Host: Yeah.

Jason Lange: And a lot of men, you know, again, haven't had that modeling of what a healthy version of that is, that it's okay to be attracted to a woman. It doesn't make you toxic to be attracted to a woman. It's what you do with your turn on that can be damaging as a man. And particularly it just means if we objectify a woman, which means we use her to make ourselves feel better about ourselves, that's the no go zone. That's what we want to avoid. And that usually involves a man who's disconnected from his heart. But if your heart is open and you are seeing a woman for a full human being, it's okay to be attracted to her and for that to be part of why you want to connect with her. And that's something we can teach our boys and men that. It's not about how rock hard your abs are. It's not about how flashy your car is, it's not about how much money you make in your job. This is very disruptive to a lot of men. It's really about how present in the moment can you be grounded in your body, how connected with the woman in front of you are you, how available can you be? And that's what the feminine most women are really longing for. That a lot of us men just do not have the capacity for. We're distracted, we. We're up in our heads, we're anxious, and we're often not actually there. And we're uncomfortable if she brings an emotion to us or something like that. And so, you know, as, as men to kind of tie this all together, it's learning to be comfortable in our bodies, including our attraction, and learning how to be very present with a woman can totally change that. And online isn't very conducive to that because you're judging someone just based on the surface. Yeah, there's so much more information that can be shared between two people. When you're actually standing there making eye contact and breathing, she can feel you in a completely different way than she can Online. So for men, you know, again, it's not impossible to meet someone online, but I always really recommend, you got to get out there, you actually got to start talking to women. And you gotta learn that if a woman doesn't reciprocate her interest in you, it's okay. It's not the end of the world. Just means you're not a good fit. Doesn't mean there's something wrong with you or you're not worthy. You don't, you don't have to be angry with her. It just means, hey, this isn't a fit. So I'm going to keep putting myself out there till I meet someone who is. And most men will find someone that's a fit, particularly if they're doing a little bit of inner work in and getting grounded in their bodies and spending some time with other high quality men. But it's one of the main places I do work with men is around relationships and dating because, you know, don't be too crass. But it's one of the only things I found that'll get a man's ass off the couch to do some work on himself if he's not having the types of connections and experiences he wants. You know, that's what, what really got me on my inner path of transformation.

Host: Yeah, I totally agree with everything you said and especially the statistics or even just from personal experience. I know talking with men and women about that balance or lack thereof in the dating world, you know, I, I have talked to women online on dating apps before who were like, yeah, you're the 200th guy to message me today. And you know, it's just insane to, to think about that, but it's very much the case. And so, Mr. Lang, you know, you have a huge website with a ton of stuff on it. I'd love for you to break that down for us and really kind of help us understand who should be going to your website and what can we get out of it. Because there's support groups, there's coaching, there's a ton of information. So if you could break that down for us, that'd be awesome.

Jason Lange: Sure, yeah. So part of my mission is I have a belief that every man should be in a men's group and that if that was the case, the world would be a much better place. And the power of a men's group, which is really what I'm leading in all my work, is quite transformative in that it is very disruptive and kind of counterintuitive and in a sense Revolutionary for particularly what us men here in the west are taught and trained, that from a early age, we're expected to confine ourselves to what we call the man box, right? This box that we're supposed to fit in by checking off certain traits. And if we don't fit in that, we're not considered a man. And just some of the very low hanging fruit of the man box is never be vulnerable. Never show weakness. Work harder. Pull yourself up by the bootstraps. Men are competition, not allies. If sex is available to you, you should take it. And if you don't, you're not considered a man. Yeah, don't cry. Don't you know, like, you can just start to feel the forces that push down on us men from an early age that, lo and behold, then tend to cause a tremendous amount of isolation in us. We're kind of fed what I call the myth of the lone wolf. That, oh, yeah, the. The most tough man, he doesn't need anyone and he just figures it out and he can survive alone. And there's obviously some good attributes in that in terms of self sufficiency. But the real truth that I want to get across here is in the wild, so in the way the world actually works, the lone wolf is the one that was kicked out of the pack, and it will die sooner. It will not survive as long as the wolf in the pack. And that even as men, we are wired to work together and be in connection. And the biggest shift I see transform men's lives is when they take all of the fear, the pain, the doubt, the things they're holding inside because I got to be tough, and they learn to bring that forward. With other trustable men, their lives change really fast. Their bodies change really fast. Their ability to be present and go for what they want changes really fast. And that one of the missing ingredients to go back to the mentorship for so many guys, what I kind of call the father energy, we all need. Whether this comes from your biological father or not, it does not matter. Is just the energy of another man present in your life who says, let's figure it out together. Oh, that didn't work out. Let's figure it out together. You don't know how to do that. It's okay. Let's figure it out together. You totally failed that. That's okay. Let's figure it out together. There's this sense of, I'm with you and we're gonna make a plan and move forward together, right? And when that's present for us men, we're able to take so many more risks in our lives because we have something to fall back on. Myself and many men I work with never had that steady masculine presence in our lives. So any action felt like a life or death choice. And we start to ruminate and overanalyze things.

Host: Right.

Jason Lange: Get really stressed out in a men's group can also provide that energy. Doesn't even just have to be an older man or a mentor, but a cohort of peers who care about you. And one of the most unique things about what I call masculine love is it doesn't need anything from you. It's just this love that's like, I love you and I want the best for you. So what does that look like? And it's the same kind of love that's also willing to give you feedback if we see you not living up to your potential. So it's not calling each other out, so to speak, but it's calling each other forward from love. You know, I kind of call it the spinach in the teeth thing. It's like, hey, man, you got some spinach in your teeth right now. And you're like, oh, that feels a little embarrassing, but thank you for telling me, because now I can take it out and be in the world in a different way.

Host: Right?

Jason Lange: And this is something I found many men might not even realize it consciously, but are actually craving is someone that loves them enough to set them straight if they fall off course. Like, hey, man, I see know how you're handling your relationship right now. I think you're better than that. I know you can do better than that. Or you've been talking about this job you hate for a year. What's in the way of you actually changing that? I know you have so much to offer the world. So it's not about, like, tearing each other down, but it's about kind of holding the highest vision of each other and calling each other towards that. And we tend to thrive when we're put in that context as men. You know, we tend to actually grow through challenge, through being at our edge. And other men can help us identify that, Support us when we're dysregulated or knocked off course, but then hold us accountable when there's something important we want to move forward. So my work, evolutionary Men. It's all about getting men into groups of all different kinds. I have groups for guys and, you know, we're working on their dating and relationships. I have guys that are working on what we call the shadow, wanting to understand their behavior. And what drives them and motivates them. I have live retreats where we just get in this same room with each other and learn that, wow, it's okay to be vulnerable with other men. And it starts to completely transform our nervous systems. But the single biggest thing, you know, I'll kind of tie a button on with here, is that you do not have to suffer alone. And in fact, as one a man in my life put it, community is immunity. And real resilience comes from being deeply connected to other people. So that if something doesn't go our way in life, we're not knocked off center for days, weeks, or sometimes even months and years. But we have a way to kind of come back to ourselves and figure it out. Right. With support from other people. And a men's group can re. And so just to. And so, yeah, to just really highlight here, you know, being able to open ourselves to trust and connection with other men. You will get more of what you want in life as a man, you will be able to take more on. And I see it time and time again, relationships improve, jobs improve, health and well being. Improvement. When we move from this place of isolation as men to connection with other trusted men in our lives, it creates a real resiliency for us in our capacity to be out and really meet the world in really profound ways.

Host: Yeah. And so for these men's support groups that you're talking about, are these in person only online. A mixture of both. And what exactly are y' all doing? As I mentioned in the intro, I know some versions of them are just talking, some of them are going out on some kind of retreat. So can you tell us about the different ones that you've been a part of and that you can help other men be a part of?

Jason Lange: Yeah. And so the good news here is, you know, when I started this work 20 years ago, if you said men's group, it, yeah, might mean a recovery group or maybe a church group. And those have a place for sure. But the type of men's groups I'm speaking about, they can be even more than that. And they're much more prevalent these days. So that, you know, it was such a rare thing when I first found it, but now you can look up in your local area, you can Google, you know, men's groups near me, or go to eventbrite or meetup.com and start to find some places to try this out. Whether it's with me or not, or the beauty of, you know, you and I are meeting on technology. Here is for the first time ever. Even if you don't have anything locally available to you, you can connect in virtually. And it's been, you know, having gone through, led this work through Covid, you can get like 85, 90% of the benefits just meeting virtually. You know, it's pretty sweet and special to be able to meet in person. There's a physicality to it that is really unique that I recommend for all men. But even if you can't find that yet, something virtual matters. So I do live retreats, I do live experiences, I do a lot of virtual work with guys. And you know, men's group can be. It's a pretty wide term in the same sense of like, hey, you know, you can say someone, do you meditate? And then, well, what kind of meditation, right? There's so many different flavors of it. Men's group is often the same. But in general, you know, a good men's group, a couple of things are going to be happening. Some of them, yeah, tend to have a lot of support to them. Meaning it's a place for us to, to bring forward where we're in pain in our lives, what's not working and to be co regulated and supported in that. It's a very powerful function of men's groups. There's also often a lot of accountability, so meaning we get clear about what we want to be moving towards in our lives and we help each other stay on track with that. We check in, we give each other feedback, we bring problems if there's obstacles in the way and the group can help us kind of iron that out. We often do a lot of physical embodiment practices as well, which these are the actual practices that get us out of our heads and into our bodies as men to that help us build up that resiliency in our nervous system so we're actually able to stay present and grounded no matter how volatile our outer world or even our inner world is. And that's one of our great gifts as men these days, when we can cultivate that grounded nervous system. And there's many more manifestations, you know, of that as well of, you know, in particular, what I found for a lot of men is men's group's a place where we get to get more connected to ourselves and what we're actually feeling and where other men can guide us deeper into our experience of ourselves in the moment, which is then where we often get a lot of clarity about what's working or not working in our lives. So we can then take action outside of the group. And there's no right or wrong way to, you know, run a men's group. There's as many flavors of them as you can imagine. And it's about finding what works for you in a cohort where you really trust the other men. Some groups are just kind of one off, dropping groups. You might never see that same group of men again. There can be a lot of benefit in those. The most potent ones I found are when you're meeting regularly with the same men over time, because what starts to happen in that is the opportunities to give each other really meaningful feedback grows exponentially. Of, wow, you've been talking about this issue, this problem, this challenge for, you know, a while now. Or, hey, turns out, you know, you've been in four relationships now, and they all seem to lead to this one thing. I wonder if you maybe have something to do with that. It's not just the people you're dating, right. There's something inside you that you need to work or heal.

Host: There's.

Jason Lange: Men's groups are really great for reflecting that to us as men. Like, where we grow from that feedback. That can be really potent. So I highly recommend any man considers finding a group and just checking it out. You know, might not be for you, but if it is, it can radically transform your life in really powerful ways.

Host: Yeah, I think, like you mentioned, the beauty of it is the fact that there are so many different kinds, unique kinds, that you can find something that fits for you. You know, it's the same way we've talked about de stressing and healing before on other episodes, which is we're all different. Some of us are more artistic and we express our feelings better through that kind of stuff. Some of us are more, you know, going to the gym or bouldering or whatever it may be. Some of us. I think the beauty of this too, with the men's support groups is you might be a listener, you might just want to hear what other men are going through to help, you know, even though you shouldn't compare and contrast to other people. But it might help you to hear these stories and to realize you're not alone in the feeling that other people are going through the same. I think deconstructing that lone wolf mentality like you said, or you might be a talker and you have no one to listen to you. So, ladies and gentlemen, in the description below, you'll find Mr. Lang's website, and I highly recommend you to check it out. And I said ladies as well, because as women, you know, sometimes you can't get a man to open up about certain topics. There's just certain things, especially if you're in a romantic relationship with that man, whether he's your husband or boyfriend. Some things men don't like to discuss with their women, whether that's finances or just other issues they're having. I know that's been. Those barriers are being kind of twisted nowadays, and some men are more open about that stuff. And I'm not saying it's either beneficial or negative, but there are still a lot of men who just don't want to talk about certain things, whether it's pride, because they're the man of the house, whether his father or husband or what it may be, or you might just not be connected in that way. So, ladies, what I would say is if your man is going through something, and this could be your son or brother as well, if he is going through things or seems like he's not himself, or even if he is himself, I highly recommend you sending him to a men's group or connecting him with other men or getting him to listen to at least men's podcasts like these so he can kind of figure things out, because that's the best way you can support him on top of just listening. And, you know, if your man is willing to open up to you, you might have to listen gently and not be prying about it. Some men, especially men who are just opening up for the first time, if you pry, they defensively lock up. And so I highly recommend you to send them the website or again, this episode or whatever it may be, but be sure to check on them. And then men listening to this, whether it's a brother or a best friend or someone new in your life, make sure you're checking in on each other, like we've expressed throughout the episode is. And it's something I talk about in a lot of the episodes I have on suicide prevention and awareness, which is the. The silence, the stoicism, the smile. Right. The success. And you kind of mentioned before in relationships, that flashy car and lots of money and all this stuff doesn't matter. And it's the same way when it comes to that, you know, status doesn't hold chains down to suicide. Right? I mean, we've seen people take their lives who are celebrities. We've seen people take their lives who are fathers, husbands, Right. In fact, men make up a majority of suicides. So definitely check in on one another. You know, please take care of one another. And Mr. Lang, I want to thank you so much for coming on the show and for what you do, I think it's important to have people like you promoting those groups because to be honest, until I started podcasting and I had Mike Van Pell come on my show and mention it, I was like, men's group. And like you said, most people think AA or a church group. And like you said, there's a place for those. Those are great, you know, especially if you're a faith based man and you only want to talk to other faith based men. We get that. So I think though, bringing awareness to the, the new online ones, whether it's a Facebook group or a zoom call or the ones in person, like you said, you can look up in your local areas now. And as you mentioned, if there aren't any in your local area, wherever you may be, you're free to be a host. You know, as long as you're a man who is willing to create an environment for other men to support one another, hold each other accountable. And the best thing you said, Mr. Lang, is pull each other forward through, you know, acknowledging each other's potentials, holding each other to the highest version of themselves. As long as you're willing to do that, you can host a group. And like we said, you're going to have other men joining you who are helping you, whether they're at your level, somewhere behind or somewhere ahead. And like you said that having that, it's all right, we're going to fix it together. I think that's so important and I think that ties well into. Some people have men in their lives, fathers who are just always criticizing but never giving feedback or offering to help. And I think that's so important to know as well. Mr. Lang, thank you so much for coming on the show. I appreciate you being on here.

Jason Lange: Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Mr. Viske. Struggling with alcohol, but traditional recovery programs haven't worked. Discover Thrive Alcohol Recovery, a private science backed program built around the Sinclair method with licensed doctors, expert coaches and real results. Thrive helps you rewire your brain and reclaim control. It's discreet, affordable, and built for real life.