Eighty percent of the information your brain needs in any given moment travels from the body upward. Not from the brain down. Which means most men, conditioned from a young age to override what they're feeling, to push through, to stay in their heads, are navigating their entire lives on 20% of the available data.
That's one of the things I got into on this episode of The 9-5 Exit Plan. We covered a lot of ground in 23 minutes, and what I kept coming back to was how much men suffer when they try to do it all alone. I know that suffering personally. I grew up anxious, disconnected from my body, and when I hit my dating years, my whole nervous system would clamp up. I got philosophical. Read books. None of it moved the needle until I got into a room with other men who could actually see me and give me feedback on how I was showing up.
Two things I've found working with over a thousand men: purpose and belonging. Not the idea of them. The felt sense of them. A good men's group delivers both. It slows you down enough to actually connect with what you're feeling in your body. And it gives you real feedback, the kind that helps you grow faster than you ever could alone. Same reason you train harder when someone else is in the gym with you.
We also got into vulnerability, which I define as authenticity plus risk plus softness. Not performing weakness. Literally softening your body, breathing, and meeting someone from that place. It sounds simple. Most men have never tried it.
The most practical thing I offered: find one man in your life and go deeper. Don't talk about sports or the news. Ask what's actually going on for him. Share what's going on for you. That's the beginning of a men's group. And that alone can start to change things.
What would it cost you to let one man actually see where you're struggling right now?
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Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode on the podcast. I'm your host, Abraham. Many men are struggling in silence, carrying pressure, carrying expectation, carrying responsibility they were never taught how to handle. They have been told to stay strong, figure it out alone, and never let anyone see them struggle. But what if the lone wolf approach is exactly what's holding them back? What if real strength isn't found in isolation, but in connection? Welcome to night 580 plan, where entrepreneurship meets freedom. Today's conversation is about masculinity, purpose, responsibility, purpose, relationship, emotional strength, and why every man needs a community that helps him grow. My wonderful, wonderful guest for today is Jason Ling, men's embodiment coach, group facilitator, evolutionary guide, and satisfied, no more Mr. Nice Guy Coach. For more than two decades, Jason has dedicated himself to helping men find deeper purpose, healthier relationships, and a stronger connection to themselves and the people around them. Having trained with respected teachers and leaders in men's work and personal development, Jason believed every man should be part of a men's group because growth was never meant to happen alone. Jason, welcome to 95 as a Plan.
Jason Lange: Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Thank you for coming on the show, Jason. So, Jason, before we get into the main conversation, can you please tell us a little bit about yourself?
Jason Lange: Yeah. So I'm a men's group facilitator. I coach men, like you said.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Yeah.
Jason Lange: My journey into men's work really is a personal one in that, you know, I grew up like so many men, disconnected from myself, disconnected from others, suffering, anxious, numbed out, and trying to do everything alone.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Wow.
Jason Lange: And it wasn't until I got into men's work and men's group that my life really started to transform. And I learned that, wow, it's actually quite a bit easier when I allow myself to ask for support and get support from other really high quality men in my life.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Oh, amazing. Also, Jason. So now, Jason, your own journey into men's work started through loneliness, relationship struggle, and feeling disconnected. What was the turning point that made you realize something needed to change?
Jason Lange: Yeah, so, you know, it really built for me over the years in that I started really feeling uncomfortable in my body, in my being often anxious, often depressed in my teenage years. And for me, it really kind of came to the surface when it came to dating. Right. I'm heterosexual. I became a teenager, was interested in women, and my whole body would just get uncomfortable and clam up. And I did not know how to connect with girls in my case. And so as I aged and got older. It didn't get better by itself. I saw my friends getting into relationships, having experiences, and I was still just as uncomfortable as I ever was. And so I realized I need some help here and where I was from, you know, and particularly back in the day and even still a lot these, these days, you know, often men don't necessarily gravitate right towards therapy. Yeah, therapy has this stigma for men of, oh, means there's something wrong or broken with you. So, like a lot of guys, I went to philosophy first and then through a long and winding road, found myself in a group with other men in a room. And it was there getting feedback on how I was showing up in my body in the moment from other men that my life really started to change. And first and foremost, I just started to get connected to my body, into my feelings, which turned out was the unlock for everything else.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Wow. Amazing answer, Jason. So now many men are successful on the outside, but feel lost or disconnected on the inside. Why do you think so many men are struggling today despite appearing to have it all together?
Jason Lange: Yeah, that's because, you know, from a young age, us men aren't taught to thrive on the inside. We're taught to override our bodies, our physical health, our emotional health, our mental health in order to achieve on the outside. So many men fall for this paradigm that, well, once I get X, Y or Z on the outside, then I'll finally feel fulfilled and okay on the inside. And the truth is, it doesn't work right. We all think it will work, but I've worked with plenty of guys who have had the amazing career, have made all the money, have the amazing wife, but they haven't done the inner work to get connected to who they are. And they still feel lost, alone, depressed, like they're trying to do it all by themselves.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Yeah.
Jason Lange: So much of what we're taught about masculinity is really about competition. And the work I do with men reframes that to, hey, you can actually get more of what you want in life by connecting deeply with other men and getting clear about how you want to actually feel in your life. How do you want to live your life? What so many men do is in chasing the outcomes, they get on an escalator and grind through life and then find themselves getting somewhere they never actually wanted to be. And so that's a big wake up call for so many men.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Wow. Amazing answer. So now you often say every man, every man should be part of a men's group. What makes men's group so powerful, and how can they transform a man's life?
Jason Lange: Yeah. So there's two things I've identified in my own life and now that I've worked with, you know, over a thousand men over the years, that men yearn for purpose and belonging. Purpose, meaning my life matters, my presence, me showing up, it has an impact, and it matters to the people, the community, the world around me. And they want to feel like they belong, like we're part of something. And too many men, like you said, feel disconnected from themselves. They feel disconnected from other people, and they even feel disconnected from the planet, from the earth, from nature. And men's group is a powerful way to start to reconnect and get a sense of belonging and get a sense of purpose, because it really matters how you show up to the men in a group like this in your life. Your presence can be the thing that changes another man's life. So it really, really can move the needle and then the number. The two big things we can get in men's group that really help us as men are one. A good men's group is going to slow us down and actually connect us to our felt body experience. What does that mean? What am I actually feeling in. In my body and in my heart? So many guys steamroll and override that and then end up accumulating all this tension, all this stress, all this burden in their lives. That actually makes it much harder to accomplish the things they want, because all of that tension takes energy. The other big thing a group does, in addition to connecting us to what we're feeling, is it provides us with feedback. So the masculine part of all of us grows through feedback, right?
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Yeah.
Jason Lange: We get feedback about how we're showing up, how we're present, how we're executing in the goals and things we want in our life. And without that, it's really easy to have giant blind spots as men and go awry. And it's the simplest thing. Right. Most guys know the experience of what it means to, like, exercise and work out alone.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): And what?
Jason Lange: Exercise and work out. When there's somebody there with you, we go harder. We push ourselves. Our form is better when someone else is there with us, both bringing us to our edge and giving us feedback. Hey, did you notice that when you, you know, when you squat, your. Your hip kind of juts out to the left? That's feedback we can then use to improve our lifting. And it's that same feedback that can help us improve our lives, our professional lives, our relational lives, and our mental and emotional lives as well.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Wow. This is like a personal question. So if someone. Which. Who is not good with communication, how can he's not with communication? And you have the kind of mindset that you have to make it first before approaching people.
Jason Lange: Yeah. That's exactly the trap so many men fall into of, oh, I got to be perfect before I put anything out there.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Yeah.
Jason Lange: And what I found, again over years and years of this work is often the things that connect us the most to other people and make them feel the most connected to us are the things that we feel are vulnerable. So it means we approach with vulnerability. And all vulnerability means is it's a combination of three things in what I teach. Authenticity plus risk plus softness. And what I mean by softness is not being rigid and posturing and tough, but by literally softening our body and breathing deeply. Hey. Let's say, you know, I work with a lot of men on dating and relationships. There's a woman we're attracted to, and we feel really nervous to approach them. So we're. I gotta think of the right thing to say, Right?
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Yeah.
Jason Lange: Instead, we breathe deeply, approach them, and just say, hey, I noticed you across the room and I had to talk to you. I have no idea what to say to you, and part of me is really nervous to be here, but I absolutely had to meet you. Hi. Right. We lead with the vulnerability, and that can often completely transform things. And the other thing for so many men that's so powerful about a men's group is once we get in there with other men, we realize, oh, this imagined story I have of other men have it all figured out. It's not true. Every man is struggling in some regard, and every man makes mistakes and has to learn from them. So as men, instead of trying to do it perfect, we just become relentlessly honest about where we're at. Here's where I'm at. Here's where I could use your help. You know, it's really simple in that regard. And the more we can do that, the more what we find is by being transparent like that, we'll often actually get more of what we want faster.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Yeah.
Jason Lange: And it does not have to be perfect. This is a big thing. You know, so many men. The men that I know are most successful in life and all the ways of men imagine they want to be. One of the reasons they're successful is they're not afraid to make mistakes. They don't see mistakes as a personal failing.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Yeah.
Jason Lange: Just see it as feedback, like we said. So again, one of the Many gifts of a men's group is we get to get practice in getting feedback. And once we learn to take feedback in. In our life through things we try and they don't work, through relationships, through people, we can grow and accelerate so much more quickly.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Amazing answer. Thanks for that. So, Jason, a lot of men were taught to suppress emotions and handle everything alone. What healthier. Sorry, what healthier model of. Of. Masculine. Masculine. Sorry, I'm sorry, I'll rephrase the question. A lot of men were taught to suppress emotion and handle everything alone. What healthier model of masculinity do you believe men should be moving towards today?
Jason Lange: Yeah, so this is such a great point. From an early age, us men are taught that means to be of man means to be invulnerable, to be tough, to not have feelings, to not have emotions.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): True.
Jason Lange: And that has disastrous consequences for us men. So many men out there, like I said, are feeling tired, burdened, depressed, anxious, frustrated. And three out of four suicides tend to be men. And the fact that we are taught not to feel, I think is a big part of that. When we're young, we can push through to a certain extent. But I can tell you, as someone in middle age now and someone who has worked with many men even older than me, this stuff catches up with us. Our bodies, our hearts. We have autoimmune disorders. We get sick, we lose relationships. All is a downstream consequence of not feeling. So what we're being asked to do today as men is not an either or. It doesn't mean we're either just tough and powerful or weak and soft. It's both, Right? It's the capacity to be in our power, in our bodies, in our desire, and to be connected to our hearts, to be attuned, to be feeling. And I say this to men all the time, right? A lot of guys who deride feeling as weak, I tell them, well, you tell me who has more courage. The man who's afraid to feel his grief, his fear, his shame, or the man who's willing to go right into it and be fully present with it. And all men who judge feeling, oftentimes what it's coming from is just fear. They are afraid. And in terms of the upsides to feeling and learning to metabolize and be present with our emotions.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Yeah.
Jason Lange: One of the many things that's pretty wild, right? Is if you consider how our bodies and brains work, there's this thing kind of called the vagal nerve, which connects our brain to our body in a lot of different Ways. And one of the interesting things they found is if we consider that like a. A road, right? Like a highway, and there's two lanes of traffic, there's a lane of traffic that's from the body to the brain, and there's a lane of traffic that's from the brain to the body, only about 20% of that track flows from brain to body. About 80% of it goes from body to brain. So if you're not in your body, which is where we feel as men. So if you're not feeling your emotions, you are not feeling your body. And that means you're missing out, out on 80% of the information available to you in any given moment. And guess what? If you want to be an effective leader in your life, in your community, in your family, the more information you have access to in the moment, the better the decisions you can make. So getting into your body creates better leadership. Right. And so this isn't just a theoretical. Men who are connected to their bodies become more trustable, make better decisions, and frankly, feel safer to the people around them.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Amazing, amazing answer, Jason. So now for someone listening right now who feels stuck, isolated, or unsure about their purpose, what practical step can they take to start building a stronger and more meaningful life?
Jason Lange: Yeah. The one I always lead with here is start simple. Find another man in your life, reach out to him and go deeper. Default culture teaches us men to just relate by talking about things, by staying on the surface. Talking about sports, talking about media, movies, music, politics, whatever. Talking about the weather.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Yeah.
Jason Lange: What we aren't taught to do as men is to go under the surface and look another man in the eye and say, what's going on for you in your life? Here's what's going on for me. Here's where I'm in pain. Here's what I want. Here's where I'm struggling. Here's what I'm celebrating. What about you and that connection alone, when you make that with another man who's willing to meet you there, can change your life more than anything else. Because connection, the feeling of being seen and seeing someone else and being on the same page and not feeling alone. It is. If we could bottle it up and sell it as a pill, people would take it immediately, right?
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Yeah.
Jason Lange: What? I have more energy, my nervous system's better, I sleep better, I make better decisions. I'm less anxious, my blood sugar's better. All of these different things that are possible when we just get connected to someone else and the man, you take deeper like that, and that you get more deeply connected with, then becomes an ally for you in your life who can help you hold your stress when you're overwhelmed and can help you hold. Hold you accountable when there's something important you want to move. And even if it's just one other man, that's the start of a men's group and that's the only thing that can change your life.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Wow. Thanks for that answer, Jason. That was an amazing answer. So, Jason, this question I'm about to ask you is going to be the last question for today. If you could transfer one piece of wisdom to men who, who wants deeper purpose, stronger leadership, and more fulfilling life, what will it be? One piece of wisdom.
Jason Lange: Yeah. Don't. Don't try to do it all alone, connected to other men and turn towards your feelings. The freedom you want is often on the other side. And one of the many reasons men don't is because it's much harder to feel these things alone when we're in community, when we're in connection, it's much easier to feel our grief, our pain, ourselves, our anger, our shame, our disgust, our fear. And the more we feel it, the more we free ourselves from it and the more choice we have in our lives. So get resourced, get connected with other men and learn to be present with your emotions.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Wonderful, wonderful piece of wisdom, Jason. And now, Jason, to everyone listening to us who want to get to know more about your work or, or they just trying to get in touch with you, how can they find you?
Jason Lange: Yeah, you can keep up with me at my website, Evolutionary Men. On there, you can find all my social media, blogs, podcasts I've done, programs I've done. Really, if anything here has sparked an interest with you and you're feeling stuck as a man and you want to do something different, this is a way to radically step into a new way of being with other men.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Well, amazing. For anyone listening, as Jason just said, who want to learn more about Jason and explore how men work and how coaching can support their growth, visit Evolutionary Men Book. A free book, a free exploratory call and discover how men group and groups and coaching can help you create greater clarity, connection and purpose in life. So, Jason, thank you for coming on the show. I had a wonderful, wonderful time with you, talking to you today, so it was a pleasure having you.
Jason Lange: Thanks so much for having me. Really enjoyed it.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Thank you for coming. Do you have any book?
Jason Lange: I do not have a book.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Okay. Yes. I'm just wondering.
Jason Lange: So, working on it.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): All right, all right, all right, all right. Wonderful. Jason, before you go. Okay, okay. Before you go, Jason, I hope you have a wonderful, wonderful rest of your day. And please don't forget to mark complete on Purge match so I can set the dates and time to put this wonderful episode we just had to my audience.
Jason Lange: Okay? Sounds good.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Wonderful. And bye. Bye, Jason.
Jason Lange: Take care.
Host (The 9–5 Exit Plan): Take you.
