What does it actually cost a man to chase success the way we've been taught to chase it? That's the question Maya Diamond and I dove into during this conversation, and it led us through some territory that felt both uncomfortable and necessary. We explored purpose, relationships, money, and what it actually means to integrate all of it without losing yourself in the process.
One thing that came up pretty early was this trap so many men fall into, myself included at various points. That whole escalator mentality of work harder now so you can enjoy life later. I work with a lot of guys who took that track and by their 40s or 50s, their marriages are falling apart, their kids barely know them, and their bodies are breaking down. The question becomes how do we define success in a way that includes our relationships, our presence with our kids, and our own aliveness, not just the paycheck?
GS shared his journey from 17 years in Silicon Valley to doing the work he loves now, and man, I could relate. I talked about my own messy transition when I tried to go all in on men's work and burned through all my savings in the process. That put massive strain on my relationship with Violet because I bought into this myth that if it's not your highest purpose, you shouldn't be doing it. Sometimes you need scaffolding. Sometimes you need to do both for a while. That was a hard lesson for me.
Zev brought some beautiful perspective on the spectrum of men, from the guys who default to work and go blind to everything else, to the more sensitive guys who can get flooded and struggle to even show up. We talked about how our lineages shape us, how little boys start out with this incredible sweetness that gets conditioned out of them, and how we're all trying to reclaim that while still honoring what drives us.
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Host: Of living my prayer for truth.
Jason Lange: I.
Host: Call in my prayer it is simple and clear it wants me to give and receive love I call in the light to make everything right and show.
Jason Lange: Me the way to just be loved.
Host: And show me the way to just be love hello and welcome to the Rewire your Attachment style podcast. This is Maya diamond and I am so excited to be interviewing three men today on the podcast. Zev Aaron, Jason Lange and G.S. youngblood. These three men are all coaches in their own right and have been working with men for decades. Jason Lange is a men's embodiment coach, group facilitator, Certified no More Mr. Nice Guy Coach and evolutionary guide. Welcome Jason. He helps men drop in and wake up to deeper clarity in their life's purpose and relationships. He believes every man should be in a men's group for the growth and support opportunities they provide. Love that so much. Zev Aaron has been working with men for over 15 years. He has trained high level executives at Fortune 10 companies to be better allies to women and better leaders among men. He was a coach and trainer with Yale University's Emotional Intelligence Lab serving business leaders and families across the U.S. but the thing that he is most proud of is his experience learning from, being mentored by and facilitating groups with George Bertelstein. He taught me, he said, Zev says. He taught me what it means to be a good and safe man, to be a loving man, to be a man who can be vulnerable and strong, to be a man who can be self reflective, who can soften, to be a man with a prayer for my life and a connection to my creator. Welcome Zeb. So happy to have you. And G.S. youngblood is. I'm really excited. So G.S. youngblood came on the podcast in 2020, episode number two. If you want to go back and listen to that episode. So this is very exciting. Five years later he is back and he is the acclaimed author of the ground breaking book the Masculine in Relationship which I have all my male clients read, which challenges the modern notion that all masculinity is toxic by offering a model the masculine blueprint for men to become grounded in their own power and more relational with their feminine partner. The blueprint is something any man can embody and fits in in our modern me too culture without being watered down in any way. The premise of his book is that and the work is that many relationship problems are actually rooted in a lack of relational masculinity which is a combination of grounded leadership and relational skills. This is what he teaches men and his two books have sold nearly a combined 70,000 copies. Wooh. And he has become a highly sought after men's coach. So excited to have you all. Thank you. Thank you.
Jason Lange: Good to be here, Maya. Yeah.
Host: So let's start out with I want to know. And we're gonna, I'm gonna be saying men. So we are gonna be doing generalizations, everyone, just to kind of give that caveat up front. But we're gonna be doing, yeah, like, you know, talking about men in general. But of course I want to hear about your specific experience being a man as well as the people that you've worked with. But I'm curious, what is being on purpose and being successful in one's career give to a man? Like, how does that positively affect his life and his relationship with self? Let's go to Jason for this one.
Jason Lange: Sure. Yeah. So, you know, having a sense of direction, of purpose and know, success. I think for one, it's interesting these days to even make sure to define, you know, what is that? I think a lot of us were raised in a context of, oh, success is having a really high paying job where you're crushing it, bringing in the bills. And you know, I would say 60 to 70% of men I work with are guys who took that track and then their wife's leaving them, their kids hate them, they miss their children's lives because they were just working all the time. And you know, you hit 40s, 50s, that catches up. Their bodies start failing, autoimmune stuff starts happening. And I think part of what, you know, a cohort of men like this, I'm just getting to know Zev here, but I know GS a bit what we're up to is like, well, let's actually take a look at that. And so a lot of days, a lot of times these days, you know, I think success includes more than just having a high paying job. And one of the biggest questions I work with men around is, well, why, you know, a lot of men get on the escalator like, oh, I'm supposed to work this hard and get this job so that eventually I can have the time and resource to enjoy my life, be in my relationship, spend time with my kids and they get it backwards. But what I have found is when a man is clicked in, so, you know, I kind of call it slotted in. He's putting energy into something and it's, it's accumulating into like a forward momentum, meaning I put energy in and that energy comes back to me, not just necessarily financially, but relationally in terms of how I'm allowed to spend my life. It creates stability, confidence, and really what most men I work with really long for is the ability to provide for people they care about might be their intimate family, their spouse, but their extended family even beyond that, you know, we, we, we get inspired by a cause or something, and there's something really powerful for a lot of men I work with that's like, oh yeah, I can support that with time, energy, connections, money. And so I think it really gives men a sense of direction, clarity and stability, and it allows them to give back to the world in the ways.
Host: So, so huge. That piece around success and also that piece around working so hard for this future result or future gain, but then missing kind of the relational field while doing that, or just missing the joy of life while doing that. GS can you share more in terms of, or your thoughts around this question of how does being on purpose and being successful, what does that give to a man?
Jason Lange: Yeah, I'm like the poster child for what Jason was describing. You know, I did, I did 17 years in Silicon Valley in kind of core high tech jobs. And you know, it. I threw myself into my work so hard way back when. And you know, I'd go home and my, my wife at the time would just be perpetually pissed off at me. And it's like, what do you, what do you need from me? I, I work all day, I provide for the family. And that's the illusion that a lot of guys get into, is that they throw everything into their job and they think it's their purpose, they start ignoring other things. But I can speak to that transition because I went from that, that more traditional career into what I'm doing now. And you, the question is, what does it do for you when you find your purpose? Like, I wake up every day jazzed, and I think that's the goal is when it doesn't feel like work anymore. That's what it does for you when you finally find the thing that you're locked into. So I encourage every med, don't settle. We get into ruts. I got into a rut in the high tech and, you know, had I had, if I'd had my wisdom now back then, I probably would have gotten out earlier because I had lost heart for it, particularly over the last five years. So that's the message I give to guys, is like, when you start to feel yourself losing heart for something, listen to that and, and do what's necessary. And we can talk what that would be, but do what's necessary to Find that thing that jazzes you up because every day will. Will feel like play rather than work. In some ways, so beautiful.
Host: I love that so much. And Zev, what are your thoughts on this question?
Jason Lange: Well, I mean, the only thing I would add, I think I love what GS And Jason are sharing. It's really good to be with both you men here and you're both new to me, so it's really fun to hear your perspective on this is I would just offer that I think it's a spectrum and that men seem to like while we talk about men in generalizations like men are. Some men are super driven and we call it type A and they're just going to work no matter what. And that's their own challenge that they need to navigate and how to create balance and structure for them to not do that. And then there's other men who are really emotional and have a tremendous amount of sensitivity. And I think those men, like, depending on which kind of group of men you're talking about, I think a man who's really sensitive and emotional and can get into processes can really spin out quickly if not working and, and doing something with their life and, and feeling like they're on purpose like GS And Jason were talking about. And so I think that's where it gets really even more, I think, destructive to any, I mean, really any human. But to, to men it seems especially because that, you know, we've all grown up in a patriarch of patriarchy is designed for men to be, you know, given all the blessings and advantages. And so when you, when you seem to be in a patriarchal society and you're not living up to that and you don't feel like you're winning and you don't feel like you're finding all the success in your life, it really eats at a person, you know, especially men. And so I think that's the only thing I would add is just like where you are as a man in that spectrum. For some men, work is easy. That's where they default. Sounds like GS had a good case of that in the tech industry where it's just like you could work and work and be blind to the rest of stuff. And I think there's other men who are like, they're not blind, blind to all the other stuff and then they just get flooded by it and then seem to not be able to work. So I think it's just important to ground like, where are you in the spectrum? And then where is your path of greater purpose? Like these two guys already Talked about.
Host: Yeah. Beautiful. Would love to hear a time in your own life when money or career or finances got in the way of your romantic life. And if you have any regrets or learnings from that experience and that. And can share that and I know.
Jason Lange: Am I starting this one off?
Host: Sure.
Jason Lange: Great. Well, so for me, like, I'm in the spectrum. I'm pretty sensitive guy. I'm pretty emotional, pretty like oriented more towards the spiritual and towards the other worldly kind of things. And when I was in my. When I was making the most money and working the hardest in the tech industry and really doing well, I was at the height of my addiction because the rest of my life felt so dark and I just didn't. I couldn't live the. So the addiction drove so many relational problems. You know, just like my lack of integrity calling late at night, being like, oh, I'll be home at 12 and showing up at 3 and just creating havoc for my wife and family, you know. And wasn't until I got sober that I was able to fully see that pattern and had to make some corrections about what kind of work I do and how to find the sweet spot. Like, I think Geos GS said it so well about like waking up in the morning feeling jazzed about the work I do, which I, I do now. And now I've been sober for over 10 years. So I think that to me, the, the impact on somebody who's working so hard and finding their self identity through work and, and not having other outlets, it can be really dark and scary. Whether it's addiction or being abusive at home or being. Not having the capacity for other people's feelings or experience, it, it's all perpetuated by that intensity and that pressure that's happening inside that man. Yeah. So I'm very familiar with that. And yeah, any man who can get over that and find some peace and find some, you know, even if we don't call it balance, but just find some grace in their life so that they could show up with more love for their family and for themselves and for their heart and for their deeper sense of why they're here on this planet. It is definitely not just to make money, that's for sure.
Host: Jason, have you had that experience?
Jason Lange: I can share one specific moment that, you know, purpose in my relationship started to come into conflict and it was when I actually began the transition to, to working in men's work full time and, you know, purpose, do what you love. I was kind of rolling with the burn all the bridges, go all in And I had been making a living, is basically like an independent web developer at that time. And I was pretty fried. And it stressed me out like crazy. I couldn't wait to get out. And so I was like, okay, I'm just gonna. I'm gonna cut all that out and go all in. And it was one of the biggest mistakes in my life in that I ended up spending a year and a half in an incredible amount of stress, digging myself deeper and deeper into debt. And it caused a lot of tension with my wife, Violet, because we were wanting to start a family. I was having the realization, oh, this process is going to take a lot longer than I thought. And she was feeling really unstable, partially because of the finances and partially because the stress. The impact it was having on me was then impacting our presence and in our dynamic. When I get stressed, I withdraw. I just go away. Like, I'm just, like, in. My thing siloed off. So it was freaking her out. And we. We ended up getting in some pretty big. Not battles necessarily, but points of disconnection around it. And it was one of those things that, in retrospect, I'm like, oh, man. What I needed to do was create some scaffolding. And I kind of just fell victim to this myth of that that honestly causes a lot of pain. I know a lot of men with is like, if I don't. If it's not my highest good, I shouldn't be doing it. And then a lot of men get trapped in this paradigm of like, oh, if it's not Joseph Campbell, follow my bliss, then why am I stuck in this job? And I had to learn a pretty hard lesson that a. Sometimes it takes time to make that transition. So plan accordingly. And for a lot of men, I've been surprised what I've. What I found. For me, the most painful point in my life was when I wasn't doing what I loved, and I didn't know exactly what that was going to be. So it was like I was stuck in a job and I didn't know where I was going. That was the most painful point I have found. There's a lot less pain for most men I work with once we've identified the thing. At least we're moving towards it, even if we're still in some other job. And some men I've worked with have actually found, you know, they spend their. Their life building up a certain amount of status in a. In a job or a role that they can kind of just phone it in and money comes back and Then they can use that to finance the things they really care about. So they can go on these big retreats or do awesome trips in that just purpose in how we make money, I think more than I've realized. It's amazing when they're aligned. And there's actually a lot of opportunity for them to not be exactly aligned in that. You know, some guys I work with, their purpose is to be the best father ever because they come from a lineage of just totally broken homes. And so for them, that's where their energy is going to be. So the question is, what job fuels that? Right. What job allows me to be totally present in my kid's life? And I've had to really, you know, weave that myself as my wife and I, you know, we both work from home and I've been quite involved in childcare. And in retrospect, I'm super grateful that I got to do it. Took a lot of painful years to get here and it really caused a lot of tension when I didn't really have a backup plan. And then once I brought some work back online that was steady, everything got easier in my case.
Host: Right. And when you said you wish you would have had the scaffolding, what do you mean by that?
Jason Lange: I wish I hadn't let go of all my clients and made a smoother transition with, oh, it's going to take time, right, to build the client base, start making, you know, a full time living as being a coach in the way I wanted to. In that I kind of convinced myself it had to be either or black and white. I'm all in or I'm not. And it was actually took a lot more presence to be like, oh, I have to do both for a while. Like, I actually have to do both in my case.
Host: And I'm curious, when you said scaffolding, I actually thought you meant support. And so I kind of want to bring that piece up, which is like, I've noticed this compared to women, I feel like men have such a harder time reaching out for support, whether it's therapy, coaching, couples coaching, couples therapy, etc. And so, and I could imagine even like, right. Maybe career coaching. Right. So, yeah. Is that. Was that something that was hard for you, Jason?
Jason Lange: Thankfully, that has never been an issue for me. I have always had just an incredible abundance of amazing men in my life. I'm in like four men's groups. I've been in men's groups since I was in my 20s. So some of the big transitions into my life were partly powered by that. But I was deeply supported during that. And that was part. That's probably one of the only reasons, honestly, my relationship survived is I had guys holding me when I couldn't hold myself. And that allowed me, you know, to come in enough of the time to hold my wife and create a container and get some support. And honestly, guys sit me down and help me make a plan for, like, okay, what are you going to do to create some stability here? And then I would take action. And that's super meaningful. It was, for me, at least. Gregory was around with some of my most challenging moments, for sure.
Host: Wow. Wow, cool. So. Thank you, Jason. That's so, so helpful, I think, for other people to hear what the breakdown was in terms of career and relationship and how you were able to get out of it and the relationship was able to move forward in a good way. I'm curious, GS if you want to share personally, anything that. Yeah, I guess you already shared a little bit, but, yeah. Yeah.
Jason Lange: First I'm going to say I'm a big believer in what Jason said about that crossover. That's. That's really good advice. But I'll. I'll talk to the impact on my relationship. I already mentioned that that work was one of the big factors that, that led to the breakdown in my. My marriage way back when. And the thing that I didn't realize. This is what I'll narrow my answer to. The thing that I didn't realize is that she had needs for me to be financially successful so we could have financial security, but she also had relational needs that I. That I was not accounting for. And that's where you come up with like, well, I provide this good life, right? What are you talking about? Like, what you need from me? And she's like, I need some fucking relationality. That's what I need from you. I need some emotional connection. I need your awareness, not, like, looking at your phone, thinking about work at night. Like, I mean, we've all been there. So I think that's the biggest thing that I didn't. I didn't realize wasn't getting met. She had a need for. For a relational need that was not getting met through my career. And that's. That's one of the big things I work with a lot of guys on is. Is realizing, like, there's no here's, here's. I. I just came up with a client, and I told him, there's no barter system. I'll give you two units of career success in instead of having to give you one Unit of emotional connection. Does that work for you? And so there's no barter system around this. You got to meet those relational needs of your. Of your woman. And no amount of success can justify it, you know, for the most part.
Host: No, exactly. It's just a totally different sector of life. Emotional, relational, romantic connection. And it's. I think one of the. The most powerful things for a woman is to receive that connection and give that connection and then. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it's somehow again, going back to conditioning or one. One thing I do want to discuss is conditioning versus biology. Would love to hear your guys's thoughts on this, actually. Yeah, let's transition to this question, which is how much of it is the conditioning of men that make it so career finances get prioritized over relationship by and large, for men versus biology versus historical patriarchy and the ancestral lineage of men. Because I also want a presence that for so long in our. In society for so many years, men were actually the sole providers of women and the family. So there is some deep, deep imprinting there as well. So. Yeah, I'm curious us your thoughts on that, Seth?
Jason Lange: Well, yeah, I mean, I think we, we as small children learn through modeling. And so whatever your father was like and whatever your grandfather was like is going to get passed down to you. So I think that's not a big stretch. I think that's becoming more normalized. I think it's kind of like we all get that now. But I think I also like to celebrate the leaps that men have made the quantum leap of, you know, like hearing Jason as a father. And I don't know, GS I don't know if you have children, but I imagine if you do, you're a great father. And the level of time we've spent with our children is way beyond what any men have done in the past. And so I think there's like, how do we celebrate the evolution that's taking place that even this conversation is happening where you have three men who are all kind of advocating for more love in the family, more relational connection with children, wives. So I think both. And you know, and I think I also like to honor the ancestors that, like our grandfathers, actually had that sweetness in them. They just had all the, the trauma that came from their grand. And just how crazy life must have been, you know, back in the 1800s, 1900s, 17. It's just like the insanity of the human being. And so we are representative of both the love and the pain of our ancestors. And I think for each man it's about coming to terms with that and taking the next strides to bring more love through the, the male bodied form. And, you know, like, I have a real prayer which is that one day people will think of men and the first things they'll think of is sweetness and love and kindness and, and safety and fatherhood. And you know, we're not there now, but I think we, if we keep our attention on that and men keep stepping forward and going, oh, wait, I, I'm really a sweet man, you know, I'll just end by saying, I think, you know, I have two daughters, so like they, you know, they always like when I say this, but I think little boys are the cutest thing in the entire world. Like, I think the sweetness of a little boy is even more, more than a little girl. I mean, girls are just, I love my dad, but there's something about the sweetness of boys that gets lost somewhere along the way. And I think we all see it and I think that is our culture, our society, the ancestral piece. And it's just like, how do we return men to that core? Sweetness is, I think the, the question. And I think that's what the work that everybody here is trying to do is to restore men to that true sweetness that, like I like to say with the guys I work with, like the people in our lives, our wives, our girlfriends, our children, they love our sweetness and our smile and our love and wherever that goes, when that goes offline, they want it to come back as soon as possible. And I think that's the work because it's going to go offline. It's hard to be sweet all the time.
Host: That's so beautiful. Yeah. And Jason, what are your thoughts around the. Yeah, this biology versus conditioning versus patriarchy in terms of the way that men are, what, what men embody in, around this issue of relationship and career?
Jason Lange: Yeah, I think there's, I mean, I definitely think there's a nature component in that. I think for most men, if you just left them alone for long enough, at some point they're going to have an impulse to want to do something, to create something. And I think a big part of the masculine experience, at least for me and many men I work with, is how nourished we are when we're getting better at something. Like literally when we're just methodically over time improving our capacity at something, it creates a deep sense of fulfillment that I think does drive a lot of men. But then I do think there is kind of a cultural nurture piece around that, that you know, I keep thinking of, you know, the last hundred years or so. You know, there was a lot of challenge before that, but this idea of being like a nuclear family, a single unit that lives independently, is pretty much just we made up in the last hundred years. Like, okay, go out to the suburbs. The way the family is going to work is there's a mom and a dad and two kids, and the kids get sent off to school. And, like, it was never that way. There was much more of a collective, right, in terms of how kids were raised and sharing of resources. And, you know, that certainly started to shift during industrial times, but I think that's. That put a lot of extra pressure, particularly in that early industrial revolution when some of those just awful factory jobs that men were mostly taking up were physically demanding and they had to go off. And so suddenly, okay, who's going to watch the kids? You know, our communities are kind of broken up, in a sense. And so the man had to, like, hold a lot of that burden in ways that, you know, I'd be curious, you know, if you actually do the research. I imagine, you know, women did have a part to play in terms of gathering resources and taking care of the. The collective and whatnot. We just had different roles, you know, is what I would say. But I think so much of that story has gotten mapped on to so many men through that kind of patriarchal lens, that it's not only that you have to, like, be the sole breadwinner, but if you're not, there's something about you that's wrong. So so many men's inner worth gets tied to that. So if I'm not providing, like, I don't deserve to live. Kind of like it's. Some men, I. I know it's like suicidal energy sometimes when they're like, you know, I've been applying to jobs for two years, and I. I just. I can't get it. And it's really hard how condensed. I think that gets in on things.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: And so, you know, I think there's been some liberation from that in that just, you know, we're living more and more in a. In a time of abundance. But the pressure does still seem to be there. And even in the men's work world, right, there's so much emphasis on living your purpose. And if you're not on purpose, you're da, da, da. And that creates pressure. Cause I get so many guys coming to me, it's like, I don't know my purpose. I don't know my purpose. Like it's this thing you're just supposed to be able to find, rather than. What I've often seen is it's something that kind of gets revealed in your life. If you keep plunging into life enough and having meaningful experiences and relationships, something will call to you based on your experiences. And. But there can be this, you know, and I felt it, like, this pressure, like, oh, I. I don't know what it is. I got to be able to, like, get into a sentence. And it's useful when you can find that. And sometimes life is just a little bit more exploratory, like, I don't know yet. Right. And I might need to do some work along the way that isn't the most meaningful work in my life, but, you know, helps me provide resource, and that will generate some capacity. So I. I do think there's a lot of cultural pressure on men. And, you know, I just. I was working with one of the guys in my group last night, and someone broke up with him because she's like, yeah, I get a sense you're not at a place where you can provide for me. And he was very clear. He's like, yeah, I'm in a phase where I'm exploring who I am and what I want to do. So, you know, it was kind of okay, but it was, like, very concrete for her. She's like, I have a timeline. This is what I'm kind of expecting for that. And so it's not going to work. And this is out there in some pretty significant ways.
Host: Yeah. What are your thoughts on this, Gia?
Jason Lange: I think that I really like what both the guys said. Both very eloquent. And I'll pick up on something that Jason said. Like, I'm a little bit more on the nature side. There is something that eats at us when we don't feel on purpose and we don't feel like we're productive and filling our role. I've experienced it. I think these guys probably have, too. It's biological. There's, you know, I mean, there might be some acculturation, but I think it's small that just that core I need to produce or create or provide eats at us. Now, I want to say this. When I say us, actually, I'm not speaking about men. I'm just saying masculine beings. So a woman who are masculine would also fall into that category. I know several women who are very career driven. They were not interested in having children. They wanted to kick ass at work. So that. That falls into that category. It's more about the energies so that, that's what I would add. We have to just recognize that core biological orientation. It doesn't mean that you can't choose to act differently. It just means that's where you start from. And then thankfully, our world has opened up the possibility for somebody who's not necessarily born as a man and step into a masculine role. It's more accepted now and then vice versa. Like I think I forgot if it was Jason or Zev, you know, men taking care of kids. So I think, I think we start 80% or 70% nature. But thankfully our, our modern day society has opened up possibilities to go kind of move off that in both directions.
Host: Yeah. So Jason kind of brought up this piece around having a family, I think from that woman who broke up with that guy. I'm pretty sure that was what was a big part of it. And time when a woman's talking about timeline, you know, that's the part of it. And so, yeah, when a man is thinking about having a baby with a woman he loves. I would love to hear what are some like for us women who are not in men's heads, but would love to be a fly on a wall in a men's group, which I'm now creating at this moment in time. Kind of. What are some of the things that are going through his mind regarding the considerations around money, career, finances and the timing of it all? How is he making this decision? How does he know it's right to move forward? Like what's going on? What are, like, yeah, like what is in his head and like his heart around this really big decision? And what are some of the things that you think men are kind of thinking about considering in terms of like all of this, this huge project, this huge endeavor that's going to change his life, his woman's life, the whole trajectory of his life? Yeah.
Jason Lange: Oh, I want to take this one first.
Host: Yes.
Jason Lange: I have three kids, so I feel qualified to give this very succinct answer. Here's what's going through his head. Oh, oh, oh. Because it's, it's, it. Well, one, we're just baffled by babies. I think most men, before they have babies, are baffled by babies. Not all, but most. And, and then it's like we're seeing the loss of our autonomy and our time and we don't feel qualified. It's a lot of fear, I think, for a lot of men. Not again, we're making generalizations here. So I think that has to be considered. And the reason I say that. So like I'm so excited to say it is just. I just want guys to know that, that that's normal to feel like that. And we all feel like that. And then we get the baby. We're like, I'm in charge of this thing. Are you kidding me? Like, that's all pretty commonplace for a lot of men. So don't worry if you're scared. You're fitting right in.
Jason Lange: I don't know. Did I chime in here? Throw it to these guys.
Host: I wanna, I'm. Let's. I wanna just follow up with ugs and then going to go to. We'll go to Z. Yes.
Jason Lange: I, I think there's a lot of, there's, there's a lot of, of situations in life where the feminine wants the masculine to step in and say, look, baby, we got this. This is one where we might need a little help because we just, we feel very out of our element. And she can say, sweetie, you're going to be. You're going to be great as a dad. So I think a little bit of reassurance is a way that a woman can settle us or a feminine being can settle us in the situation of, of child rearing or childbirthing and all of that.
Host: Beautiful. Thank you.
Jason Lange: Well, I just have a kind of more of a funny, almost comedic response to this, which is, I think one of the great things about men is sometimes we don't overthink things and that we are spontaneous. And I think we are kind of like, you know, so I think if there's too much talk or too much. It depends. I mean, if people have been together for a while and they're on a kind of more traditional. They've been dating for a while, then they get married and then it's obvious that, like, kids are the next thing. I think that's a, a more of a linear approach to like, having kids. But then I think there's also a whimsical nature. I think, you know, I think men, there's a biological imperative to reproduce. And I think, you know, I have a theory that if a woman really wants to get a man to, you know, put his seed inside of her, that it's pretty hard to say no to that. You know, it's like, I like to joke with some of my men's group, it's like, well, we could talk about babies being made in loving context. They also are made in bar bathrooms because that's just how biology is. It can happen anywhere. And so we forget that we want to like glorify and make it one way thing. And I'm, I'm not suggesting one or the other. I'm just saying I think for men sometimes overthinking it and getting. Staying closer to the love and to the passion and to the actual special nature of, of having, you know, let's call it unprotected sex in the name of something coming out of that, a creative process. I mean, talk about tantra or talk about true creation and life force energy. I think there's something about that that to me always has my attention. I always joke with women about it's pretty hard for a man to refute, you know, like, but to refuse the full expression of a woman wanting that in inside of them. And I think, I think exploring that and I think if a man is resistant to that, then there's other things going on potentially in the dynamic and in the relationship that's blocking that flow of energy and that natural life force energy. And also what GS said, it's scary as hell. Why would anybody have a kid? It's a totally crazy idea. I don't know how we've populated this earth over and over again. I mean, it's one of the hardest, most beautiful, heartbreaking experiences anybody could have. And I wish it on everybody. But it's definitely, you know, it's a lot.
Host: Thank you, Jason.
Host: Beautiful, beautiful. Love that. And okay, so let's go into some actual tools. I'd be curious, what are some ways a man can balance cultivating the heart of the relationship and the demands of his, his career. So also personally. Yeah, like how do you balance your career and your evolving, beautiful, loving, conscious relationship? How do you balance that and nurture? I'll say personally, I definitely did have the experience where my partner in the past, yeah. Went into really intense work stress, similar to you, Jason. And it was like the relationship was not getting cultivated in the ways that I needed and I felt very unhappy. And so, yeah, it seems to me like always having an eye on the cultivation of the romantic, sensual, passionate, loving quality time. All that is so, so helpful for not just the woman to have her eye on it, but also the man. And so I'm curious, like, how does one do that? What are some concrete tools? What are some concrete ways that men can pay attention to that and keep their eye on that? I notice men are really good at that in the dating phase of the relationship, but further along it can get lost a lot of times. GS, let's hear from you.
Jason Lange: Yeah, I think the thing that I've, that I've, that I would focus on in this question is you gotta, there's a finiteness of time and attention and energy. It's just kind of a reality. You have to acknowledge that you have to ruthlessly cut out things that, that don't serve the higher good. And so two ways that I see is, is this evil little thing. Yeah, you gotta, you, you know that 25 minutes you spend doom scrolling, you gotta cut that out. Like that's where you got to bring your masculine intention and manifest that. Like, no, I'm going to bed so I can get up that much earlier and do What I need to do, that's number one. Two is at, the job, you have to push back. And this is where nice guy syndrome plays into the work world where you're like, oh yeah, I'll do that, I'll do that project. And first you say yes to everybody and then you got your own cool, cool things that little mini projects at work and suddenly you're, you're busy wall to wall. So you've got to, number one, learn to say no at work and be confident that you as an employee have proven yourself in other ways that when you do say no, it's not a, it's not a ding on you. Also realize that not everything you do at work can move the needle. And I think the best companies at the company level, they keep people focused on the, the big rocks that really move the needle and then they just push all the other stuff to the wayside. And, and I, I've actually seen people not be very good at that. I've been one of those people that is not very good at that. It's something I learned over time. Just got to say no a lot more and really have the balls to push back on work so you can be there for your partner and your kids. I think that's really what it comes down to. So those are the two ways that I would recommend men balance all the competing demands on their time.
Host: Yeah, those are huge. Thank you, Zev.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: And to get upset with him for it only digs a deeper hole. And so.
Host: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Powerful. Thank you. And Jason, what are your thoughts on this?
Jason Lange: I love what these two men have been sharing and these will maybe just add on to those two pieces of, you know, self care is super important. Meaning you got to take care of yourself. Part of that to me is taking the responsibility to make sure you have somewhere in your life to go where you can be held. Like I was talking about, where you can be the one that just collapses in exhaustion or frustration or fear or grief and be held for a bit. So then you can come back, find your center and come back to your family.
Host: Right.
Jason Lange: And be present in it. That's been a game changer for me.
Host: Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. The. I love that the fire of the relationship bringing. Because you know, one of my biggest passions and specialties is sex coaching for couples. And that exactly like this is if you're in a monogamous relationship, this is the one person that you have this fire and passion and sex with. And so we gotta really cultivate it no matter how young the children are, etc. So thank you. That was really, really, really beautiful and brilliant. I wanna. Yeah. Just this is such a rich Juicy conversation. And I think it's going to be so helpful for so many people of all genders. And I would love to hear from each of you. If people want to go deeper into your work, how can they do that? And yeah, any last words you want to say? Whoever would like to go first, go ahead.
Jason Lange: So great. I've been voluntold. It's one of my favorite things that men can do. We can just tell each other what to do and we'll do it. It's how my men's circle goes. For sure. Yeah. I mean, I think for anyone listening that is feeling a call towards something greater than themselves and is looking for, you know, that has a kind of a. Knows there's something more for them in this life and has a, you know, a spirituality that has gone sort of. Of un undiscussed, unchecked, unnoticed, un unloved up to reach out. And anybody who's been through any unimaginable experiences. I really love working with. With men who have had their lives turned upside down from what I call the unimaginable. It could be sickness, loss of life, divorce, but just hard times. And they're really trying to get their life moving forward, to reach out. And there's always a way forward. It's what we're good at as human beings as. As much moving forward. And I'm always impressed with the human capacity to get through hard things and to find our way to our blessings and find our way to. To what really wants to happen for our life. You know, there's a basic teaching that I live by which is to soften, open and allow the. The life that wants to live through you to. To move through you. And they could email me zev aarons gmail.com and we could set up time to chat and yeah, I have some men's groups that are opening up right now and so yeah. Thank you so much, Maya for bringing. It's fun being part of Maya's men's group. I hope we do. Are we meeting next week or what's the deal? I'll just block this time off. So nice to meet both of you guys. I hope we connect again.
Host: Thank you. Thank you for being a part of Mind men's group GS. Do you want to go?
Jason Lange: Yeah. I'd say for any guy that if, you know, if you feel like you're too reactive, if you feel like you're not leading in your relationship, if you feel like you don't know how to create the emotional. Emotional safety and connection with your. With Your partner then, then my work might be for you. I think the easiest way is just go to Amazon and, and buy the book and just you see or just even read the, the description and see if it fits. And if it does, then the easiest way to access my work is to get the book and you know, at least read the first chapter and you get a flavor for things. And then beyond that just, just go to GS youngblood.com it's all there. Just like I'm sure these guys, you know, workshops and courses and, and other offerings and you can see which one fits your particular needs. I think that's the best way to access Beautiful.
Host: And I also want to put a plug for women to read his book as well. I got a lot out of it as well and learned a lot. So it's, it's just such an amazing read. Yeah. Jason.
Jason Lange: Yeah. If you are intrigued by what I'm up to, easiest thing is just go to evolutionary.men so not.combut. men can find all my retreats, programs, tons of podcasts. I'm on my own podcasts there. And if you want to take the the torch forward in your relationship, I do co run a program with my wife Violet called Evolutionary Couples. You can go to evolutionarycouples us and there you can sign up for a program we have called 12 Epic Dates where you'll actually get the content for 12 relational dates to lead you your partner through from home. So if you're a new parent in particular, it's an easy way to keep the fire alive and guide her into something deeper.
