Talking about The Man Box Theory with Jason Lange | The Co-Dependent Me Podcast

Host: Welcome to the Codependent Me podcast. I'm Tamara Shaw, a recovering codependent, a codependent life coach, and the co author of God Turn Mommy's Wine into Water. This podcast was created to increase the awareness of codependency and to give a more holistic look at the journey and healing of codependence. Foreign. Welcome to the Codependent Me podcast. I am your host, Tamela Shaw, and today we have a special guest. His name is Jason Lange, and he is a just a wonderful advocate of men having support, coming together, supporting one another. And of course, I wanted to have him on because I want to do my part in supporting our men as well. Jason, welcome to the show.

Jason Lange: Oh, I'm so excited to be here, Tamla. Thank you so much for having me.

Host: Absolutely, absolutely. So you have men groups. Yes. You do group coaching, and you think it's very, very important for men to come together and do. Now, when. When you say groups, is this, like, coming together where everybody can talk and. And get what their day was like, the different things that they're going through in life, and you guys can come together and really support one another?

Jason Lange: Yeah, that would be one of the most popular questions I get. Right. Is what is the men's group? Right. You know, part of my mission is this idea that, yeah, I think every man should be in a men's group because of the support and power and clarity it can bring to their lives. And that question of, like, well, what is it a group? You know, it's always fascinating. And I like to use the analogy of, you know, sometimes people talk about something like meditation, like, oh, I meditate, but then there's like, a thousand different types of meditation, right?

Host: Yes.

Jason Lange: So men's groups are kind of similar in the sense that it's a vague term for a big body of work. And there's lots of different kinds of men's groups. But the most basic central premise to it, I think, is that, yeah, it's men getting together and putting their attention on each other for the purpose of getting real about what's happening in their lives so they can get more clear about what it is they want to create in life, what's in the way, and kind of even how to get there. And so, you know, there's a lot of different groups. Some emphasize something, some parts more than others, but it really is about that attention being on each other. Because if there's one thing men love to do, it's talk about things, Right? We love to talk about things, and we often Relate to each other via something we call triangulation. So me and another man, our connection is often created by us having our attention on some third thing. A sporting game, an activity. You can. You can start to think of it. It's like usually, often men are together and they're, like, focused on something, but the focus is rarely each other. And that's why, you know, even for men that do have, you know, friends in that sense, sometimes there's this deep inner sense of loneliness, of I can't really talk about what's going on, and I got to hold it all together inside. And a men's group is one powerful tool to kind of blow that strategy up and create something much more powerful instead.

Host: I love that because I think it was a few podcasts ago, a couple episodes ago, there was someone. She talked about how everyone, like you can say, a lot of people say, I love the ocean, right? Oh, I just love the ocean. When really what it is that you love is the surface of the ocean, not the deep stuff that gets down there in the muck. And, you know, and when the, when. When certain things happen and the tsunamis come up and, you know, when that. And the ocean gets angry, it can be, you know, so it's so many things. The. In that third point, that's the surface stuff, but exactly is when you can get down into the. The realness, the real life situations that happen that you feel like you may not be able to share with certain people, but when you're in that group, there's always some type of. Some type of commonality, right, that, you know, and you can have those conversations and get that support. Everyone needs support, right?

Jason Lange: Yeah, absolutely.

Host: I love that. That's really, really good. So you. You are a coach, and I want to just get into you just a little bit. What made you become a coach?

Jason Lange: Yeah, well, like, I think a lot of coaches, it started with my own journey in my own work. So, you know, didn't know any of this at the time. It was an exploration as I aged. But, you know, I'm a white guy in the United States, raised kind of lower middle class. So growing up, I had pretty much like my basic security needs met. But the one thing, you know, I learned later on that I did not have was my family had no capacity for connection, interiority, emotional intimacy, and even physical intimacy. We. There was no touch, there was no talking about feelings. We were just kind of in the house doing things together, you know, in a sense. And, you know, that's way more than most people in the world that have. So, you know, I'm grateful for that in a sense. And it left some pretty malnourished parts of myself that started to become really clear as I entered puberty and suddenly was interested in dating and getting into relationships and found that my whole body would just get anxious and kind of clammy and sweaty anytime I was around a woman. I didn't know how to talk to her. I didn't know how to share what I want. And I, I was lucky in the sense I had some good male friends in high school, but I just did not have the wiring for like horseplay and like kind of wrestling each other. Like it was so outside of my, my zone. And so as I aged, the limitations of how I've been raised became really clear. I had no access to my interiors, my feelings. I was often feeling very numb. I was addicted to pornography as a way to type, try to regulate myself. And I was a very late bloomer. So I just struggled so painfully with women until kind of my mid to late twenties when I discovered this work. And so it was that pain that really just had me feeling not good in my body on a day to day of like, it seems to be easier for other people what's going on here.

Host: Right.

Jason Lange: And that started my quest of, well, I need to. There's got to be a better way to be. And so that first took me kind of, as it often does for a lot of men, into kind of more philosophy and mental realms. And then it was in my twenties I got exposed to probably the two most important things are of somatic work and shadow work, which I know we'll talk about, and men's work, men's groups. And it was once I got into those spaces, I actually started to transform in my life. Got much, much better.

Host: And we are grateful because you're taking that and you are spreading it across the world. And that is fantastic. That's so good. I mean, I tell people, and I'm pretty sure my audience is like, she says this all the time, but it's because it's true with most of my guests, where we all come from a place of, I want to say pain, or I can say a place of a place of pain where we've. We found the answers and then realize when in finding those answers, that we're not alone. Right?

Jason Lange: Yeah.

Host: And then, you know, because we have this empathy within ourselves, we're like, we need to share it. This needs to be known. Like, I know there's other people out there feeling like they're the odd man out, or they just feel like they're just different. Right. And so if I can help myself and if I can help them, oh, my goodness. Right. So I am grateful that you became a coach and you are out here doing this wonderful work. So the man box is the box, the group?

Jason Lange: Great question. So, yeah, the man box is a term that was popularized by this activist, Tony Porter. I think he was out of Oakland, and he had a book called A Call to Men and I think a TED Talk as well. But it. A few people kind of made this idea, and he kind of crystallized it and made it popular. The man box is essentially the kind of set of expectations men are expected to conform to in order to be a man. And so, you know, I think this happens on. On both sides of the court for men and women, but I think it's particularly strong for men. And there was one research study, I can't remember who did it right now, but they pulled men and women. So did big research study asking men and women two questions. What marks the change from a girl to a woman? And what marks the change from a boy to a man? And it was really interesting. You know, for better or worse, this is just kind of what is. Both men and women reported that the. The. The transformation from girl to woman was based most mostly on physical attributes. So as a woman matured in her body as she started ovulating, could have kids, they considered that marks the transition, that girl is now a woman. It was not the same for men. And so what they. What they found was it was based on behavioral changes. So a boy could be fully mature in his body, but still be, you know, not be a man. Considered a boy. Failure to launch because of the way he was showing up in his family and his relationships and his community. And so it was based more on these expectations of behavior.

Host: Right.

Jason Lange: So the man box, it's really this checklist of you have to be this in order to be a man, and if you're not that, you're not a man. And some of the very basic ones we probably all kind of know that most men get stuck in are, don't show emotion, don't ever be vulnerable, don't be weak, figure it out by yourself, be tough, don't cry, never ask for help. You know, you can start to feel the constellation even. Even, you know, shallow stuff that people don't realize, like around sexuality. Like a lot of men feel this pressure that if sex is available for you, you should take it. And if you don't there's something wrong with you as a man that. Oh, you know, I didn't, I didn't. I wasn't attracted to her in different ways. All these things add up to these expectations for men and that create this level layer of kind of conformity that starts pretty strong.

Host: Yeah.

Jason Lange: And definitely gets accelerated kind of often in the middle school, high school, kind of locker room, boy bullying thing where, you know, you really can't share anything, otherwise you can be attacked for it. So men learn to keep it all inside. And that's probably the last, you know, major thing I'll highlight of kind of this, the idea of the man box. And there's all kinds of reasons for this, some based on biology, some based on culture, but the. This idea that most men are actively discouraged from a young age from being in their bodies and in the work I do, our emotions actually start as sensations in our bodies. So if we're disembodied, we're disconnected from our hearts, we're disconnected from our emotions. So, you know, things like, stop crying. You should be no better than that. Be tough. Honestly, even the majority of the educational system sit still, like, sit still for eight hours. Don't move, focus. It's not how most boys are wired their bodies, they need to learn kinesthetically. Right. But what that teaches boys early on is, oh, override what's happening in your body with your head, with your head, with your head. Right. And then that continues through often times, sports and activities. Boys are taught, push your body. It's okay if it gets hurt. Go to, you know, go into the extreme sports. Even of, you know, a lot of the professional sports now. Right. They have pretty significant research that's like, it destroys many men's bodies. Right. It's like they're actually sacrificing their bodies.

Host: Yeah.

Jason Lange: It's much more balanced now. But traditionally, you know, the military and going off to war, men's bodies were often disposable. A lot of the most dangerous and kind of toxic, physically demanding jobs have tended to be held by men. And, you know, unfortunately, everyone's getting swallowed up into this now. But there's kind of been this, you know, corporate culture of work harder, more hours, push yourself, push yourself. 80 hours a week. Keep making that bank, keep making that bang. And how do you do that? You don't sleep, you don't take care of your body. You stop working out.

Host: Pointer everything about yourself.

Jason Lange: Exactly. Point being, we're taught from an early age, yeah, get out of your body. And then we're often even rewarded for that later on. And then that has long term consequences for us because then most men are walking around totally disconnected from their body, totally disconnected from their emotions. And when they do have strong emotional impulses, they have. We have no idea how to handle them. And so for most men, because they're taught to eject from their bodies into their man heads where they ruminate or overthink things, they either do that or men I think in particular are really vulnerable to. Will turn to things outside of us. Alcohol, weed, cigarettes, food, porn, sex. To help us try to deal with the intense feelings in our body that no one ever taught us to be present to. So you add all that up and men are kind of raised in this climate and culture of there's a right way to be. And that way is being out of your body, overriding your feelings, prioritizing thought, and generally not trusting other men and seeing them as competition and not allies. So men get desperately lonely and often feel, you know, there's, there's a quite a literal loneliness epidemic for men in particular. A lot has changed in our culture and society.

Host: Yeah.

Jason Lange: But I think men tend to be more vulnerable to it because we're just, again, we're not raised to be quite as relational by default and we're raised to often be much more competitive. So as some of these traditional structures of family and connection community have dissolved, there are many men that have no close friends or very few close friends, spent most of their time online or working from home or remotely. Covid only accelerated that for a lot of, a lot, A lot of guys. There were many men I worked with during the pandemic that, you know, if they weren't on a call with me or my group, like that was it. They didn't have anyone to check in with, they didn't have anyone to talk to or. And that has a severe consequence on the physical health of men as well. So they, you know, they have the pretty extraordinary research that shows loneliness can be just as damaging as smoking a pack of cigarettes a day as being extremely obese. Like, it actually decreases your lifespan pretty significantly. Mental dementia will come on faster. Like it's, it's a real deal. And it's why I think it's so important right now for, for people like us to kind of burst the bubble and say, hey, there's other ways you can choose to be as a man. They're a lot more connected and have a lot more spaciousness to get yourself supported.

Host: And I just want to say that all of the reasons that you just named is why it's so important for men to find other. To find men groups. Because everything that you just said a woman would know. I mean, and, and if there's somebody, if there's a woman that's in the audience and you disagree, email me [email protected] But I personally, and I've raised boys, everything. Like when you were talking about it, talking about the different things in the man box. Like you at first. Because of course when you said man box, I pictured a box. But every time you would name something, the box just got smaller and.

Jason Lange: Exactly.

Host: And smaller and smaller. And then in my head I'm like seeing Fred Flintstone. Like back in the day, it was like, you know, and then they're this big and. And then they don't feel heard. It's just, oh, this is why it's so important. It is so very important. And I mean, today we're talking about men, but because, you know, on here I'm always talking about women's groups and. Yeah, because it's the same thing, but. However, today I want the men to know. Go out. There are groups out here. Please have your fellow men so that you can find a group that you can be vulnerable with. You can talk through things, get advice and do shadow work. Let's talk about shadow work. Can you tell what it is and how it can improve a man's life?

Jason Lange: Yeah, I think shadow work is in a lot of ways intimately connected to some of what we just chatted about, in particularly in the sense that, you know, this is a gross generalization. But I think there's some truth that more often than not, I would say a lot of women have a higher emotional literacy than men. They can name what's happening in their body, talk about it, know how to kind of get support around it. Not all women, but I think in.

Host: General women are given permission to do it so. Than a man.

Jason Lange: Yeah. And relationally you're kind of more equipped to. To do that. A lot of men just aren't right. We're not taught how to be with our emotions from a young age. We're certainly not modeled it particularly from other older men oftentimes. So we have no roadmap for what it means to be in our bodies and feeling. And this ends up doing. This happens to any human being, but often times, you know, early in, in life, but really any formative moment, we can have certain experiences that are too much for our nervous system to handle. Just, it's, it's Too much. And we don't yet have the tools or equipment or oftentimes safety to process and actually be with that emotional content or intensity. And there's a great, you know, example of this that Peter Levine, who created Somatic Experiencing, kind of one of the big grandfathers of this world, talks about is you can see it really apparent in animals. And so you can go on YouTube and you can look up the videos of like, I think it's like a deer, if it almost gets caught by a lion or almost gets hit by a car or something like that, the first thing the deer or the animal will do is run away. Then it, once it gets to a safe place, you'll see its body start to shake. It'll shake, it'll actually convulse, it'll tremor, in a sense. And what that is, is that's the animal's way of actually releasing the. The intensity, the overwhelm of that moment to kind of get it out of the nervous system because it has to be felt. And the animal can't feel it in the moment because if they started feeling that in the moment, they'll get eaten. Right. So the first thing they have to do is get away into safety. And so the idea of shadow work is intimately linked to trauma. Right. That will. We'll have some kind of intense adverse experience oftentimes that we can't process in the moment and then is often then made even worse by what happens in the moment after, where we have nowhere to go process it. So what it does is this stuff kind of gets, as I say, it gets stuck in our nervous system. Our body holds it. And you know, I actually call like, I like to call them like little kinks. It's like emotional kinks where a flow of emotion or energy got stopped, got tightened up in our system. And it literally happens oftentimes by tightening. So if you think of anytime you're feeling an emotion or if you saw. Saw somebody crying and you're like, stop crying.

Host: Yes.

Jason Lange: They hold their breath, their body tightens up. So there's a physical musculature to not feeling like we actually tighten our body. And there's more and more research that seems to point to it's our fascia in particular, so kind of the stuff that wraps around our bones, connecting it to the muscles that really holds this stuff.

Host: Yeah.

Jason Lange: So lo and behold, if you're a man, you've had adverse experiences. But this goes for women too, you know, in a sense. But it's wasn't safe for you to Process it. It starts to accumulate in your body. Often our bodies become more rigid, more tight. Particularly we age, we'll start to have more autoimmune disorders, energy problems, depression. So basically there's. There's emotion that's stuck inside of us or that we don't feel safe to feel, or we were taught it wasn't okay to feel. And so on one hand, we might just fully dissociate from it, pretend like it's not there and not be aware it's there. And then, you know, smoke it away. It away? Yeah, drink it away. Like the things men tend to do. Or sometimes like it's so off for us, we'll actually kind of unconsciously push it out of us. And what this does another way, analogy I like for this or metaphor is it's like kindling, like on a forest floor. So if you imagine, you know, part of the problem in California right now is they stop forest fires for 100 years. So there's all of this dead wood that needs to burn. So what would normally be a little fire becomes a huge fire. And so we can think of shadow material, so unprocessed, emotional material held in our body as that type of kindling. So it's like, oh, there's some rage there or there's some grief there or some fear there that I've never dealt with. So it's like a pocket that gets stuck in our body and then we're out in the world and, you know, someone cuts us off in traffic or something like that. In what would normally be a little trigger of like, oh, that was so uncool. That little burst of anger suddenly hits this kindling, this built up dead fuel, and ignites a huge fire and we totally explode. Overreact in some kind of emotion. Right. That's often a sign of some kind of shadow material where our reaction isn't necessarily correlated with. To what triggered it. It's bigger or it's often historical, meaning we're actually bringing the past into the moment to our partner. Let's say in intimacy, you always da d da. You're doing it again. Da d da. Even though this moment's totally different, that's often our trauma.

Host: Right.

Jason Lange: So shadow is this idea of it's a material that's inside of us that we've lost touch with and we're not in connection with. So we call it the shadow because it's like we can't see it, you know, Wait, yeah. Shadow is always behind us. Yep. And so it can often be driving our behavior and reactions in the world without us realizing it. This is what's so key for so many men that come to me is they'll often like, I don't know why I keep doing this thing. I know it's not good for me, and yet it keeps happening. I overreact with my wife or I keep drinking, or there's this thing that keeps happening that's often a big clue. There's some kind of shadow material there for us to process. And so the work then, and why it's so important to be in relationship, to do shadow work, whether that's with a coach or a therapist or as I love to do it in a group, is while it's really hard to see our own shadow, it's often very easy to see it in others. Right. And this isn't. I don't say this in, like, a bad way, but just to know, wow, did you notice just what happened there for you? You know, this is something I see for guys all the time. I'll be working with them around a boundary or something that they're upset about, and they won't even realize it, but they're actually smiling or laughing or they're talking about something that's hard in their life, and they, like, laugh. And I'll be like, hey, you know, tell me, what was that smile about? And be like, whoa. I didn't even realize it's doing it.

Host: But even though I was smiling to.

Jason Lange: Cover up my feelings or soften them up, and then once we kind of catch that, they become aware of it. And once they become aware of it, we can often start to connect to what's underneath it.

Host: Yeah.

Jason Lange: And shadow work is really that process of what's unconscious that's running my system and how can I bring it into the light and then actually develop a relationship with it? So, you know, intimately linked with shadow work is often inner child work like I was talking about. A lot of this stuff has roots when we're young and our nervous system doesn't have much capacity. And, you know, bless our parents, they're often doing the best they can. And no parent can be perfect. So there's always going to be something but that, you know, a lot of our reactions oftentimes will be when a younger part of us that we're totally fused with starts to show up and we don't realize it. But it's. It's like, you know, this used to happen to me all the time. It was like, Jason, the adult, was not the one relating anymore. This old Young, totally scared, frozen. Part of me would actually show up and like, I would talk differently, I would move differently. So shadow work is often illuminating that and then starting to build a new relationship to that part of ourselves. Because once we can see it, as we say, become aware of it, we can start to have a relationship to that part of ourself. And when we're relating to a part of ourselves, we're not relating from that part of ourselves. So rather than becoming the explosive rage or the frozen eight year old, I can start to say things like, wow, I am so angry right now and I'm feeling a ton of heat across my chest and part of me just really wants to hit something, or I'm feeling so frozen right now, part of me just wants to walk out of the room right now. I don't know what to do. I can start to name, like this young, tender part of me is here right now. Yeah, I don't think I can actually have this conversation until he feels a little better, you know, whatever it is.

Host: And to be able to give him a voice, that is exactly. Phenomenal.

Jason Lange: Exactly.

Host: Right?

Jason Lange: Yeah.

Host: I mean, I used to say all the time, in order to, you have to see a thing, to be able to heal a thing.

Jason Lange: So that's a great way to put it.

Host: The, the shadow work. I mean, it's just a wonderful thing because like you said, it's, it's behind you and you can't, you just don't see it. But once you do, to be able to acknowledge it and give it a voice and be able to, like you said, because your body tells the tale every time.

Jason Lange: Yes.

Host: So to be able to acknowledge that pain or acknowledge those feelings, it's amazing, you know, and I'm so glad that you do that because as I said, I don't know a lot of people that, that really do that work. And it's so important. It really is. It's so important. So I know you have programs, right? Let the audience know about a few programs and then we'll give them the website. So just in case they want to reach out or sign up for something. That'd be great.

Jason Lange: Yeah, absolutely. There's, there's. The good news is, you know, when I started this work 20 years ago on my own journey, you know, you ask someone, hey, do you have any men's groups? I'd be like, what are you talking about? Maybe a church group. That was the only thing that existed. But it is changing now because I think men are really waking up to, oh, how we've been is not sustainable. Like, it's just too many men suffering. And when men suffer, the world suffers, you know, because then, you know, I. I'm particularly energized by. I believe it's men disconnected from their hearts that cause a lot of the worse things that are happening in the world right now. And as we can get men more connected to their hearts, they care more about their families, their relationships, the environment, like, this stuff comes online in groups are one of the most powerful ways, I would say, to do that. So I work with guys one on one. But I'll tell you, my favorite place to be is in a group, because the. There is that communal aspect. There's always shared history between guys that it's like magic sometimes of, you know, I'll start a group and won't even know it, and it'll end up two guys will have, like, such a incredibly close experience in life that we never could have predicted. But as we go deep, they're like, wow, yeah, you know, I felt something like that too. And it really can accelerate the opening and the healing. So I do some virtual groups which are just like, online and that are kind of a combination of coaching and men's groups specifically focused around intimacy in relationships or how men, in particular, nice guys, which I often work with, can come out of their heads and get into their bodies and learn how to be powerful leaders in their relationship, which is totally different from domination. I'm not talking about my way or the highway kind of thing. I'm talking about a man who can step forward and lead the relationship, including emotionally, not just be waiting like a lot of men these days do. Right. I'm sure you and some of your listeners know that experience of, like, you know, women have, you know, been kind of forced into the driver's seat a lot of times when they don't always want to be. Oftentimes, you know, these days, the great thing is, yeah, women can. And that's been a huge evolution.

Host: Yeah, but can and time.

Jason Lange: Exactly. So the. The relationship program I run for men is about how to cultivate this deeper masculine presence that can really show up powerfully in relationship. And then I do do a shadow work program twice a year for guys that's kind of a hybrid of both virtual and it has a live retreat so you get to know the other men virtually first. So then when we step into the retreat setting together, where we do very deep work, there's already a lot of safety and trust built. And that's, you know, we'll be doing Our fourth group later this year. And it's really the deepest work I do. And it's, you know, so profound to see a man open and sometimes share things that he's never. You know, Some of these guys have been holding on to stuff 20, 30, 40 years.

Host: Yeah.

Jason Lange: And it's just incredible. Or have, you know, so many guys that come to us that are like, I wish I could cry, like, I want to, but I just. I can't. And then we get them in the right space, they feel safe. Oftentimes we get a little touch involved, and suddenly their nervous system can let go in a way that it never has before, and so much is released. Or sometimes it's also the other way. Some guys who have been kind of more on the nice guy side of things, been pushed around their whole lives, find their voice. You can finally, their anger can come through, and they can say, no, I don't want to be treated that way. And. But the point being, oftentimes when we touch underneath the shadow and liberate this material, my favorite part is just seeing the vitality come back to men. Literally. Life force coming back in their body. Eyes soften, jaw softens, belly relaxes, breath gets deeper, voice gets deeper. Like, oh, it's so incredible, so fun, so authentic. Yeah, totally. Yeah, exactly. And so much easier when they realize, yeah, wow, that took. Sometimes it takes 10, 15 minutes. And they're like, I've been avoiding feeling that for 20 years. Like, it's wild.

Host: That's so phenomenal, because sometimes you don't even know who you are until you know who you are.

Jason Lange: Exactly.

Host: You know what I mean? Because you been who you are told or who you thought you were supposed to be. Right.

Jason Lange: So true. In particular, have a craving to know who they are, what they're made of. And, you know, we used to. The world used to kind of push us to discover that in the dangers of the world. Exploring, creating. I think the big shift we're in is now it's in the inner world for men, being bravely, being brave enough to go in their nervous system and their emotional body, where oftentimes no man has ever gone in their lineage. I'm talking dad's dad's dad going all the way back. There's these patterns that get handed down. And to see men step in and say, you know what? That stops with me. I'm not doing that anymore. Yeah, I'm gonna show up differently for my kids or for my wife or for my community or for myself, frankly.

Host: There you go. Yeah, for sure.

Jason Lange: That program. The Heart of Shadow is that program. And yeah, love it. It's small, it's intimate and it's very deep. And then I also do a retreat over Labor Day, which is just kind of a weekend experience for the focus is more on embodiment connection and getting into nature. You know, another thing that just really tends to revitalize us in such fast paced, wired, connected world. So that happens every Labor Day. For if you just want to try some men's work, men's group in person, which, you know, post all the zoom everybody's been doing, there's kind of a hunger for that these days, like can you get in the room and actually be around some bodies? And that, that's really exciting. So that those are my main offerings right now. And I'm also just an open book. So if a man ever wants to go to my site and contact me, you know, I can help you find groups in your area or point you in directions or whatever that might be. I'm just really passionate about getting men connected.

Host: What's your site?

Jason Lange: Yes, you can find me and my work and my own [email protected]. so it's not.com but.men and you'll find men.

Host: Oh, hello. Love it. So your podcast, what's the name of it?

Jason Lange: Same thing. So it's just Evolutionary.

Host: Yeah.

Jason Lange: Yeah, you can find that.

Host: Evolutionary Dot Men. Right.

Jason Lange: Big platforms and I just moved a couple weeks ago, so I haven't done an episode in a bit, but it'll be updated again soon.

Host: It's okay. They can go to the past episodes.

Jason Lange: Yeah, there's, there's a good backlog of a couple years there and I tend to do pretty short potent ones. So, you know, 10 to 20 minutes most. So guys can really binge them fast.

Host: Ah, men. Go on. It's needed. I mean, can you imagine what this world is going to be like when everyone finds themselves and truly know that some of the feeling that so much has been passed down. Right.

Jason Lange: Yeah.

Host: And I love this because I don't know if you know, there's a, a show called the Shy. It's a, it's a show that's about this group of people in Chicago. So it's called the Shot. But I love, I think it was in maybe the third, second or third season they started having a men's group.

Jason Lange: Oh, really?

Host: Tell you like, we are not talking about. This is why I have to bring it up. We're not talking about just conservative corporate people. I mean, we're talking about thugs, killers, Congress people. Yeah, but they're all coming together because no matter what you do, outside of what. What your title is, you still have this commonality of lack of that you can come together and truly, truly love and support one another. It is so phenomenal to watch it. Like, I'm always looking for episodes. When are they going to be in the men's group?

Jason Lange: That's great. I'll have to check it out.

Host: Yeah. So you are doing just wonderful work. I honor you for that. It's so wonderful. Jason, I ask. Well, first I want to thank you for being on the show. I could talk to you all day, but I have an appointment in 15 minutes, so I can't. So thank you so much for being on the show. If you could say one last nugget for the audience, particularly the men, what would it be?

Jason Lange: Yeah. Start. Get into a group. Start your healing journey. Start men's work. You will feel better in your body. You will feel more life force and energy and vitality. Men and women alike will trust you more. Your relationships will get better. You'll have better sex. You make more money. You get job promotions. When you're willing to look inside and get support on the outside in doing that. And you. You know, the other thing I'll say is, oftentimes it takes some guidance. At first. We need people who are a little deeper in their journey than us to guide us through it, and then we can start to guide others. But so get some support. Reach out to me. Find a men's group in your area or whatever that might be, and know that, you know, the thing I always say about this work is it doesn't make life easier, but it makes it way better. We're more equipped to deal with the stresses of life. We have more resiliency. We bounce back faster. Our relationships get. Get better. So things get better.

Host: Yes. It's a beautiful tool to a beautiful cycle like that. You have the tools for this. You know, like they always say, the vicious cycle. No, this is a beautiful cycle because as you learn, you are going to continue to pass it on. Then you'll pass it on to your nephews and your neighbors and your children and just. And it's so wonderful. Like, I can just. I can see it. It's. It's good stuff.

Jason Lange: That's great. I love your energy.

Host: Oh, thank you. So, see, that's me. That's my. Sorry, I have class in 15. But anyway, audience, since we've been disturbed by my alarm. Jason, thank you so much for the work that you do. Audience. Women, go and get your men, whether it be your man, your husband, your children, your, you know, your sons, nephews, cousins, whatever, they need it. They need it young, they need it old, and everything in between. So please, please, please, let's please start supporting our men and our young men and our boys so that they can learn to deal with things and not have so much weight just placed on them just because they're here, not because they asked for it. Right? I want my audience to remember that you matter and your story matters. And until next time, have a fantastic day. Bye. I understand that nothing is more valuable than your time, so thank you for listening. Be sure to join our Facebook group, Codependent Me, and check out my [email protected] thanks so much. Have a great day. Sa.