Session 46: Solving the Push-Pull Problem, Unlocking Vulnerability: The Impact of Men’s Groups (w/ Jason Lange), BHoF Inductee Bob Marley | Get in Fellas, We’re Going to Therapy! with Dr. Steven Solomon

Jason Lange: Foreign.

Host: Is going to help us debunk something that I messed up in episode three when we talked about men's groups being rare in the States. Jason would love to disagree with that as his life's work is motivating men to join men's group. Runs them himself, obviously, and benefited also from them himself tremendously. So we're going to get to hear about men's groups from all angles today with Jason. Introducing our guy, Jason. He is a men's embodiment coach, a group facilitator, and an evolutionary guide. No worries, everybody. This is going to be within your wheelhouse. Don't get scared by words like evolutionary and embodiment. They are normal words. We will be comfortable with them. And he grew up outside Chicago's emotionally constipated Midwestern boys. Then he spent, just like I did, a little time out west, California and Colorado, where he's planted his life here in the northern suburbs of Denver outside of Boulder. His favorite mindful hobbies are things that you're going to come to learn about today. Meditation, breath, work, time in nature. And he sprinkles in a little bit of snowboarding. Jason, thanks so much for coming on.

Jason Lange: Yeah. Pumped to be here, Steven. Thank you for having me.

Host: Men's groups, that is the core today. If everybody's listening up. So the idea being that men can get together, be vulnerable, honest, connect, talk about their feelings. I know it sounds scary. We can talk about things besides fantasy football. It's okay, Jason, tell us your story and how men's work became so important for you?

Jason Lange: Yeah, absolutely. So I do have that kind of Midwestern story in that, you know, I'm a white guy, raised in northwest suburbs of Chicago, kind of lower middle class, had basically all my, you know, survival needs taken care of, like, roof over my head. I did not have a volatile household like many men I work with. But what I discovered, particularly as I became a teenager and went through puberty and suddenly was my case, very interested in women and dating and my sexuality was coming online. I discovered that it was extremely uncomfortable for me, and I would get really anxious in my body. I would get sweaty. I had no idea how to talk to women. I had no idea how to physically be close to women. I got pretty lucky in my high school years. You know, I found my kind of pack of nerds, in my case, that were like my guys. But I also discovered in the process of that, you know, a lot of my friends would kind of horse play with each other, wrestle. And I just did not have the touch component online in my life. And that really kind of spearheaded the. The pain around. I just felt lonely. I felt depressed. I did not know really how to connect this inner journey of, well, there's got to be a better way to be in my body, because this does not feel good. I don't know what's going on. And it was in that process, you know, I first discovered philosophy. Like a lot of men, it was kind of through the mind and China and. And then, you know, I got lucky. I went off to California and eventually Colorado. And it was particularly in Colorado in my 20s, that two things happened. I got exposed to my first men's group, and then I was working with a men's coach, who actually ended up getting me plugged in with a somatic therapist, and where I got to start to uncover what was going on in my nervous system that was causing me to show up in my life in these ways. Lo and behold, I discovered an extreme amount of neglect, physical neglect and emotional neglect in the sense that, you know, my family all lived in the same house. It wasn't volatile, but there was no inner world. There was no interiority. We did not know how to talk about feelings, how to actually be present with each other. If we did anything, it was like we're doing activities together, and we're just kind of robots in the same house. In terms of what was happening inside myself, I had no guidance.

Host: You're doing an excellent job alluding to this, and I don't know that the entirety of our audience knows what the term somatic work means. And so I'll stop real quick because I think you'll. You'll explain it. Lovely. So the idea of somatic work is therapy that implies getting in touch with your body as opposed to your mind. Now, they're connected to one another. Of course, Jason's alluding to the fact that his anxiety, his negative emotions were very much held within himself like any of us, and that when you're not in touch with those things, you feel disconnected from your body. A hint, guys, the better you get at this shit, the better your sex life is. Imagine if you don't feel like you're in touch with your body. You're not comfortable with touch, well, then the bedroom is going to scare you also. So these are just little hints of why this stuff's important, right, Jason? Maybe that's not your number one goal, but it certainly matters and men will listen up when they hear that stuff.

Jason Lange: Yeah, yeah, totally. Absolutely. And yeah, that, you know, to drive it home. One of my first, most potent experiences in a men's circle was an older man who had been doing the work for a long time came in and facilitated. This was before I had done the somatic therapy. I had been seeing just a talk therapist. And, you know, it was fine. Like I got some stuff out it, but turns out I was pretty sophisticated at being able to kind of bullshit my way through that in terms of not really connect to what was going on underneath. I was working with this guy and we were doing some work in a. In a group, in a circle, and he led me through a process. And I shit you not, you know, I was like 26 years old within five minutes. I was on my back on the floor, crying, wailing like a two year old, saying, hold me, hold me, hold me. And I got up from that, not having been able to cry before in my life. Like, what the fuck was that? Where did that come from? What just happened? That got parlayed into more men's work and to my somatic therapy to really unpack this deeply neglected part of me that had been around since a kid that was just left alone, isolated, and learned to survive by going up into my head, living in a world of fantasy and thought, no wonder why then I would get around women and when touch was online, my body would freak out. It did not feel comfortable or safe with close proximity. And I had to do some pretty deep work with my somatic therapist to start to unpack that and essentially retrain my nervous system.

Host: Jason, I really, really love this. When in your journey did you start leading these groups and make it truly your Life's work?

Jason Lange: My mid-30s. So about 10 years later, I had been in a group in Colorado that was like my first men's group. And it was in that group, actually, that the men helped me get clear about, like, okay, I want to take a chance. I want to move out to California, do some artistic work, follow my passion, like, give it a go. So I did that and then kind of went on this 14 year journey in Los Angeles doing a film career. When I first got there, I kind of let go of the men's group. Within three and a half years, my life was in a pretty dark place. I was broke, I was addicted to porn, I was overweight. And I quickly realized, like, wow, I need the structure. I need the structure and support that can come from a group. And so that inspired me to start a new group in LA that I went deep into for about seven years. And in the process of that, I was leading some other kind of community events, some connection events, and guys just started asking me because I was talking about how it was improving my life and how things were getting better and they could see it and how I was showing up. And so it was around 2016 that I started leading my own workshops and eventually dropping groups out of my living room in la. And then things just kind of kept getting deeper from there. And now, you know, I'm working with men basically every day of my life, leading groups, leading retreats, leading all kinds of stuff. And it's, you know, my greatest passion, in a sense, is getting guys together.

Host: Awesome. Even my own perception of this a few months ago as a psychiatrist was like, oh, well, we only do this stuff in Alcoholics Anonymous and at the VA with veterans. And so since I've started this podcast and dipped into this world, Jason's reached out, but also just I've seen more of this, which obviously makes me ecstatic. Jason, you've talked about, like, this work being so important for you. We will get to other men. What do you think it's been for you that this is being around other men? Why does it feel like that is important versus something that would be co ed or talking to a female therapist, as we assume females would be better at helping us get to these places.

Jason Lange: Yeah. What I've experienced in my own life and then what I've witnessed in a lot of men is it's. It's not even about it specifically being a men's group, it's about Being in a group of people who have a shared context in reality for how they were raised culturally, biologically, socially, etc. In that. There's something that happens in me when I'm just around other men. And the best way I can describe this is. It's this thing that so many of us guys crave, which is a space of no demand. Nobody needs anything from us. We don't have to be on. We're not having to provide or have the answers or we're not even having to look attractive. Right. We're not managing anything. There's something that can relax when we're in that shared context with other men who have walked a similar journey to us, even if they don't exactly look like us or from the same background. There are certain cultural things that us men all have to go through, Right. And are expected to be tough and don't show vulnerability and don't be weak. And these things that get hammered into us when we're. When I'm around other men, all of that just relaxes. It's like a big exhale, a big relief.

Host: I'm curious what brings men to these groups? Because my first thought is, well, still, Jason, you can be around men at the bar, and you're all competing for women, or you can be around men in recreational sports, and you're all competing to be tough. So I do think there is. There's something that you have to show up with, like a drop defense and openness and willingness to go there.

Jason Lange: Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, this is a beautiful. Most men in our culture were taught to relate via triangulation, which means me and you learn to bond and create connection by having our attention on a third thing. Sports game, an activity talking about women, talking about work. So we bond by having our shared attention on this third thing, which there's a time and place for that that's great and it's awesome and can be super fun. But what it doesn't do often is promote us having our attention on each other. And so we can be out going out with our guys to the bar or playing a sports game.

Host: And I get.

Jason Lange: I work with guys like this all the time now, and yet inside, we feel desperately alone that I'm holding so much. My wife wants to leave me. I might be about to lose my job. I got a medical diagnosis, and these guys might not know it, right? So I'm with them, but inside I'm suffering and I'm alone. So a men's group, in a big way, is about turning the attention onto each other. Hey, what is happening for you right now? What are you feeling inside? What's going on in your life? What's stressing you out? What are you wanting to move towards? Turns out, my experience, once men are put in a space like that and it's safe and there's a container, they have so much to share and let go of that they've been holding on inside. Sometimes. For guys I work with for, you know, 30, 40 years of their life, they've never told anybody. And it has a cost on our mental health, on our emotional health, on our physical health, particularly as you get kind of more to our age. You know, we come in, we got this kind of a certain amount of credit on the card that we can just keep charging in our 20s and 30s. Yeah, just going to keep partying, keep going, working harder. I got this. And then you start to hit your 40s, and the Bills come due of like, wow, whatever it is you're holding in your nervous system adds up. We start to hit health challenges, mental health challenges, autoimmune disorders, energy management becomes so huge for men in our 40s, 50s, and beyond. And there's a direct correlation often to how much we're holding inside that. It's like literally a weight we carry as men. And so for me, getting around a group of men, suddenly we can exhale and we can share just, like, how hard it is or what's been going on. And there's an incredible space and a very unique texture. I would say, Stephen, to masculine love, which is this love of, I don't need anything from you. All I want is the best for you.

Host: Yeah.

Jason Lange: And so I also call this kind of something that sometimes surprises guys. But I think most men I know, whether they're conscious of it or not, have this deep craving for what I call the kind of spinach in the teeth relationships of someone who will look them in the eye and be like, hey, man, nobody's told you, but you have, like, spinach in your teeth right now. And they're like, oh, I'm so embarrassed. But wow, thank you for telling me. And men's groups can provide that type of feedback, which is, hey, man, I love you.

Host: We think we communicate direct. Oh, women are passive aggressive. Men, we just suck at it. So it's not passive communication, it's not aggressive, it's not passive aggressive. It's just nothing. Literally, you just don't communicate. Oh, like the guy comes back and says that his buddy and their girlfriend broke up. Well, why, what happened? I don't know. Wait, wait. It's your best friend. You talked for an hour? Well, yeah, we ended up talking about fantasy football because I didn't want to make him feel bad by talking about the breakup. And the woman's just like, are you kidding me? Like, that's not. You know. And so men will just avoid that shit in general. Like, that's the baseline. So I do feel like, Jason, you know, you talked about being able to cry. I affectionately say that I was not able to cry until age 30. And now I cry all the time. All the time. Positive, negative, relieved, vulnerable, stressed. And there's. There's power to that. So Jason was introducing me to a concept that is. It's a different name, but a similar concept to what we've talked about in this show, the man box. Want to touch on that, Jason?

Jason Lange: Yeah. So the man box was kind of popularized by this guy Tony porter back like 20 or 30 years ago. And the idea of the man box is it's the set of kind of cultural conditions that were expected to literally check off the check boxes for. And as long as we do that, we fit in the box. If we don't, we don't fit in the box. So you're considered a man or you're not. And it's pretty wild. They've done some actual research, which was kind of mind blowing to me. If they pulled both men and women. Simple question. What marks the transition from a girl to a woman? And what marks the transition from a boy to a man, both men and women? I'm not saying this is right, but this is just where our culture is at, both men and women, when it came to girls, they coined it to biology. Yeah, she has her menstrual cycle, she's developed breasts. She's come into her full womanhood.

Host: That makes her woman.

Jason Lange: Same thing. When they ask that for boys, it's not based on biology. It's how he's showing up in his life. Is he taking responsibility? What's he creating in the world? So a boy could fully go through puberty and maturity, but still be considered a boy and not a man based on these cultural conditions. And the idea here is, you know, we, particularly here in the States, we kind of know these. It's this what I kind of call the lone wolf myth. The rugged cowboy, always tough, never shows weakness, never asks for help, never shows emotion, pulls himself up by the bootstraps.

Host: Everybody, without advocating for himself. That's. Sorry to interrupt you, Jason. This is the part that I point out to People that this mentality that we think of as tough and manly is actually a goddamn doormat. You get at work, your football coach makes you feel shitty, you feel inferior because your boss sucks ass and you don't have the balls to say anything. So I just. Sorry. I get. This is what. I get fired. Because even the like masculine that we think of is not taught to self advocate that. Exactly. Right, sorry. So I had to like throw that hammer, that part home.

Jason Lange: You know, men are. Other men are competition, not allies. They are threats to you. If sex is available to you, you should take it. And if you don't, you're not a man. There's, you know, this stuff just. It comes through in all kinds of big ways. And then it's married to certain cultural things we take on, particularly as young boys. Right. Stop crying. Right? Boys hear this all the time. What you're feeling in your body isn't true. So override that with your head. And then we get put into school systems. So we're taught to not show emotions from pretty young age. And most, you know, to a surprising extent, parents will often catch themselves like, oh, wow, I do. I treat my son different than my daughter. Yeah, right. And then we get put into school or, you know, boys, again, because of our hormones and testosterone and stuff, we're pretty kinesthetic. And we're taught, sit still, don't move. Moving, that's bad behavior. Yeah, the, the fact that you want.

Host: To move your body.

Jason Lange: So sit still again, override your body, disconnect from your body.

Host: And then we get into locker room.

Jason Lange: Culture where again, having vulnerability, showing weakness, not knowing what to do, sharing who you know, becomes ammo against us. So we disconnect from that. And then we get into the workforce and we tend to be rewarded, whether it's in athletics or the military or work, for disembodying, for disconnecting from our body. Push harder, work 80 hours a week, don't take care of yourself, just harder.

Host: When people care about their jobs first.

Jason Lange: Exactly. And then we get rewarded for that. So from a young age, us men are taught by our culture to not be in our bodies, which in the work I do, and I imagine you would agree with this, emotions start as sensations in the body. So if we're not in our body, lo and behold, we're disconnected from our emotional selves as well. Then we become adults. Stuff starts happening to us. No one has taught us what these sensations and feelings in our body are, for one, let alone what to do with them. So what do most Men do we turn to things outside of ourselves to self regulate alcohol, porn, sex, working hard, social media, because no one's given us the tools to deal with our inner world.

Host: Men need to realize that this stuff that's being given to them and the man box that they're being taught again from infancy. Infancy is when these patterns start. Boys are this, girls are this. And there is a biologic difference, obviously, with testosterone and estrogen in terms of emotional processing. And the groundwork is laid far before those changes come into play. There is little to no difference between how boys and girls pre puberty process emotions and what their emotional needs are. And so the problem is everybody, you know, the people, Jason, who don't want to take this stuff on, like you and me, because they're so blocked around the patriarchal themes they were taught, they're like, well, you're just denying biology. I'm not denying biology. We know, especially prior to the biologic changes, that this stuff is, well embedded, that the changes. Jason, just touched on addiction. Guys, if you want to deny this, then who can answer to me why men abuse substances at a much higher rate than women and who and why they kill themselves at a much higher rate than women? There's no, like, people don't have an answer for me for that, Jason. And I think the most blocked men would say that those men are weak. And then I'll ask them about their relationship with their father and they'll be like, oh, he was a good man, except that he beat the shit out of me every night when he got home drunk. Right. It's like, how are men so unwilling to push away from this? Except that you remember, this is what's been maybe literally beaten into them every day of their lives. And so that makes it pretty hard.

Jason Lange: Exactly. So I, I don't, you know, like, it's not your fault if you're a man listening. It's. These are the conditions you were given. But it's really important to know they have a huge cost.

Host: Right?

Jason Lange: We do see it. Suicide rates, reported rates of isolation and loneliness. Men tend to do more dangerous jobs, die earlier. And the number one thing I get to hear and experience, particularly in guys I work with that are a little older, is when they're in a safe place and they can start to let go of some of this is just how exhausting it is trying to hold it together. All the time.

Host: Yeah, all the time.

Jason Lange: Literally. And it's not. This isn't just like mentally hold it together. You've probably seen it too, right? We hold this in our body as men. Our bodies get tight, get tense, and you can start to see men's bodies actually take the shape of it the older they get. Right. They're actual. They will actually take a shape of. I have so much tension in my body. It's. It moves with you in every single breath. And so shaking this up. And again, you know, part of what changed for me in men's work was I got into some men's groups and I was spending some time with some older men in particular. There was one guy. You know, it sounds so cliche now, but I'm, like, in my 20s at this point, and this man was in his 60s, and I'm sitting with him in a circle, and I have this experience in my body of, oh, that's what I want to be when I grow up. And it was not about what his job was. It was the sense of this man's presence, how he's communicating, how he's breathing, how he's holding himself, how he's dealing with conflict, his awareness. I was like, I want that. I've never seen that before. Being around this man relaxes me. It actually relaxes my nervous system.

Host: Yeah. What's so amazing is how rare that is. Jason. I was just thinking of. I was at a friend's wedding a few months ago, and the father of the bride. It was the best speech I've ever heard my entire life. And I mean, Obama, mean, whatever, other amazing speech givers that you think of. And I went up to his son, who I was not close with. I was friends with the groom side. This was the bride's father.

Jason Lange: I was like, wow, Damn.

Host: Your dad is just like. That was amazing. And he goes, the word you're looking for is highly therapized. I was just like. And I just, like, cracked up because. Because the dad even touched upon, like, Devorah. I'm so happy that you're getting, you know, Brian, who is. Who is so much more of a finished product than I was with your mother. And your life should start so much easier because he. He has done the work to not have to be burdened by these things. Like, he was just up there commanding a crowd, no speech, no nothing, and just speaking honestly, vulnerably about the emotional connection between a couple, which, like, think about what father of the bride speeches are that are just, like, jokey and don't and take care of her and Allah, but, like, the depth of it. And so I appreciate that, Jason, because I don't know that I Had a moment like that, even through all my work, maybe until three months ago, like, at this wedding, to be like, oh, this is what the emotional North Star for men should be about. Being the kind of provider that if you and I were to change that word and change basically everything about it, that, like, both partners in a relationship, gender and sexuality be damned. Right. To be able to be open, honest, and vulnerable enough to provide for each other.

Jason Lange: Yeah. And I think that points to one of the big crisises out there right now that a lot of us men have never had a moment model of what healthy masculinity is. There's a lot of talk in our culture right now about toxic men, toxic masculinity, what we're not supposed to be. And so a lot of men, by the time they get to me, they're like, I don't know what to do. What am I supposed to be? How. How am I supposed to be? Like, what's the model here? The beauty of a group in men's work in particular is we get to be around other men and get that transmission. And that used to be part of the. The ritual of becoming, moving from a boy to. To a man. In almost every indigenous culture, there's an actual rite of passage process where we take the boys and we put them with the men so they can start to experience what it's like. So they can experience those grounded, relaxed, present nervous systems. And that's all gone.

Host: We do that now. It's just that the men just make the boys feel like over and over again until they're good soldiers. But we do that. We do it with boot camp. Jason, what do you mean? We do it with football.

Jason Lange: Exactly. But there's not. There's not, like, intention behind it. Right.

Host: Joking about that. There is intention behind it to shame men into feeling terrible about themselves, just like their dads did to them.

Jason Lange: Exactly. And for some guy, you know, for some lucky guys, you know, the other research I've come across, that's really, you know, what's really unique about kind of masculine father energy is the dosage. And what I mean by that is sometimes all it takes is one. One intervention from a wise, grounded, caring, older, masculine role model who just in the moment, shows up to you with care and attention and, yeah, sometimes feedback that can totally change the trajectory of a boy's life. And some people do get that from, like, a healthier coach or, you know, an uncle or something like that. But a lot of guys never got it. They didn't get it from dad. They didn't get it from their friends.

Host: As we talk about this, I can think of like, the individual teachers, the individual coaches, the individual professors, like men who have been, who have been that. And it's, it's amazing because it doesn't mean that the rest of them weren't good teachers or didn't want to be good, but the ones who really did break through on that level, I can think of right off the top of my head. Even if in that moment you didn't really understand what it was, it was in space, the validation, the. The actual trust in you to come up with an answer without being belittled or told you're wrong, you know, and those things, I think for male role models is hopefully less rare, but exceedingly rare, at least in our times upbringing, right, Jason, that you can remember the handful of men who said that model.

Jason Lange: And it's, you know, to bring it back to the spinach and the tea thing. It's that unique texture of care about you and love you so much. I'm not going to let you get away with your shit.

Host: It.

Jason Lange: Yeah. So it's not about shaming in the sense you are a bad person. It's, hey, man, how you're treating your girlfriend right now, that's not helping you, and that's not helping her. And I know you're better than that. Right? So it's. It's this process of calling each other forward, or if we have a failure, a mistake, or we mess something up, it's this energy of, okay, well, let's figure it out. Cool. That didn't work how you. You wanted, so let's, okay, let's make a plan. Let's figure it out. How can we grow? How can we iterate? And so many men are just missing that.

Host: Jason uses a process called shadow work that when you hear what it means, it's going to make a lot of sense. Talk about shadow work, Jason.

Jason Lange: Yeah. Shadow work is really, you know, a loose collection of modalities, techniques for surfacing what's in the shadow with us so we can think about our shadow. Right? Is any part of ourselves we, we haven't integrated or haven't seen or just disconnected from. So if you think of, you know, like the old Peter Pan cartoons, it's like trying to see your shadow. As soon as you turn and look, it's behind you so you can't see it. Right? You don't see it. What's beautiful about therapy, coaching men's groups is intimate partnerships. We can often see each other's shadows pretty fast. Hey, do you realize every time you say that you're actually smiling? You're like, what are you talking about? It's like, whoa, now I see something that I hadn't seen before. But. So shadow work is this process of bringing whatever's unconsciously driving us into the light.

Host: Yeah.

Jason Lange: And so this is often tied to early childhood attachment, wounding, or experiences that, as I say, our nervous system had to learn to build a certain set of defenses to protect us when we're young. Right. So we actually build the suit of armor so we can survive. But the problem then is we go out into adulthood, forget we built that suit of armor. And that very suit of armor prevents us from getting what we want as adults because it doesn't let connection in and out.

Host: What we actually want, not what we're told we want, what we actually exactly gets so bad that we don't even know what we want as men, I would say as people and as men especially.

Jason Lange: So shadow work is bringing consciousness to these processes that develop inside of us so we can choose in the future how we want to respond rather than being unconsciously driven by these old patterns. And so me, when I got on the floor and that guy worked on me and suddenly there was this literal, like two year old boy inside of me crying to be held by my mother. I saw something I had never seen inside myself before. Wow. There is a part of me so desperate for connection from the feminine, wanting it so bad. And I'm terrified of it. Yeah.

Host: That I've been doing this, like, be still my beating heart and, and sighing. Because Jason is not a clinician, he's not a psychologist. He is a guy who is speaking good language around therapy work. You do not have to be a psychiatrist, a psychologist, a clinician to use these words. I have a lot of men who tell me they don't want to go to therapy because they're scared of what is underneath. Maybe it is going to a group like Jason's where you're not by yourself and you're able to talk about that stuff with other men because again, this is stuff we just need. This is stuff we know. It's in tv, it's in movies, it's in pop culture. We talk about it just generally. And so that was why my heart was warmed so many times over and over again there. Honestly, Jason, I want to end there. I mean, this has been so great, guys. I, you know, was cruising Jason's website, which is Evolutionary Men and also his Instagram handles. Evolutionary Men will include all that stuff in the episode description. So how to get a hold of Jason does drop ins men's groups virtually. And I'll have to figure out when I'm getting up to the Boulder area to come to one of your groups in person. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. This ruled, man. I really, really enjoy talking to you.

Jason Lange: Yeah, thanks for having me. And I love the mission you're up to. And what I'll just end with here is.

Host: Right.

Jason Lange: I think there is part of the man box is the stigma against therapy. Oh, you only go to therapy if there's something. Something broken with you.

Host: Right.

Jason Lange: And all we're talking about here is you go to the gym to work out your body so you can be healthy and strong. You go to therapy, you go to men's groups to work out your heart and your mind so you can be healthy and strong. Doesn't mean there's anything broken with you. This is just how we become the most responsive, sturdy, strong versions of ourselves. We can be most guys, right? That fear is just. We've never had the training. No one's taught us what this stuff is. And once you start to understand it, that fear can relax so much. And lo and behold, guess what? You have a lot more life force and vitality to dive into your life with and do the things you really want to do.

Host: This is a great example, guys. Men currently are constantly being asked to do better with their emotions. And we know we need to, of course. And the thing we all know is we were not taught how emotionally constipated Midwestern boys over here. And the funny thing is we're still not being taught how. And so how on earth would we do better and stop getting canceled and stop being toxically masculine? Because there's a lot of fingers being pointed at us like, do better, and it's like, cool. Most men would do better if they had any idea how to feel your feelings more. Okay. For four years, it's been beaten into me not to do that. So how on earth would I just start to do that? So, Jason, I appreciate you. I think the more and more that I hear about resources that are out there also helping to do that, honestly, the less pressure it feels like on me to do what I'm doing. I love it, but I'm really just always happy to see there's other people doing this work and that, you know, maybe we're a little closer. Maybe we're a little closer to that than even I think sometimes. Thanks so much, man. And yeah, look Forward to connecting again and doing some work together.

Jason Lange: Sounds great. Thanks for having me. Steven.

Host: Foreign welcome back to the Bro Motions hall of Fame, where we celebrate men who've used their voice and platform to inspire uplift and spread messages of positivity, even in the face of adversity. And this week, we're going to honor and celebrate, along with those in our audience who celebrated 420 this past weekend, the world's most famous Rastafarian global icon, whose music transcended borders and message of love and unity continues to resonate. The one and only Bob Marley. So Rob Nest of Marley was born February 6, 1945, in St. Anne's Parish, Jamaica, more rural part of Jamaica. His mother, Della, was from St. Anne and his father, Marvel Sinclair Marley, actually a captain in the British army and a white Jamaican of English descent. Initially, Bob had grown up in rural Jamaica, experiencing poverty and again, the complex nature of being mixed race. He moved to a trench town, which is a ghetto in Kingston, a much larger city. And experiencing that kind of poverty, as we know, really had a big influence in on his worldview, his music and his desire to advocate and be a huge social justice advocate. You know, music was his, his nature. As he grew, he really embraced Rastafarian, which is a spiritual social movement, you know, based around not only the use of marijuana, as we might think, but embracing the themes that he talked about. Unity, love, equality really blew up over the early 60s and into the 70s. His major albums, Catch a Fire, Burn and Uprising, and his powerful live performances, what he'll likely be remembered for in spreading that message of peace, unity. Bob unfortunately passed away way too early at age 36 from cancer in the year 1981. But he has been recognized continuously, you know, over these last 45 years. He won a lifetime Grammy achievement award. He's been inducted into the Rock and Roll hall of Fame. And he really is like the symbol, not just in college kids dorm rooms, but when you think of Jamaican culture, Rastafarianism and peace in general. You know, his music touched on all sorts of themes, including oppression, injustice, the struggles of marginalized communities, giving voice to pain and hardship. And we heard these in his songs, songs like no Woman, no Cry and Redemption Song were about emotional support and finding inner peace. You know, One Love is probably his most famous song that promoted unity, understanding, empathy, and really fostering a sense of community and connection in this world that we could use now more than ever. He really sought this, this social change and was able to use his experience as a way to foster that In a way to really, really bring that world. And, you know, as he's passed, his family's made a big point of taking that money and putting it in back into the community. And in Jamaica, an obvious Bro Motions hall of Fame candidate, 420, jokes aside, is a guy who brought a great message out into the world as he looked to spread peace, love, equality, social justice, and all those kinds of factors. We'll wrap with a short quote from Bob as we go into the break. Life not important to me.

Jason Lange: Other people Life important. My life is only important if me can help plenty to people if me, if me My life is just me.

Host: My own security Let me know what.

Jason Lange: My life is for people well, my.

Host: Life not important to me. All right. All right, let's wrap with our takeaways for the week and say goodbye. So we. So starting with that intro on the anxious avoidant trap, educate yourself. Improve that self awareness. Learn your style. Because, guys, if you're not aware of that kind of stuff, you're going to be doomed to repeat these patterns over and over again. That's the moral of the story. So the takeaway is, learn this stuff. It's coming for you no matter what. All right, number two with Jason is. Hey, guys. The best way out is through and supporting each other. Not being competitive with one another, not holding all these old biases that we used to. And. And rallying together and figuring out how to become the best men that we can be in today's world. And three, to honor our boy Bob Marley, we'll rap in the only way I know how, which is, let's say, one love, one heart. Let's get together and feel all right, you know? Sounds like a kinder, gentle world to me. We'll see you all next week. It.