I had a powerful conversation with Aaron on Guys Dealings with Feelings about one of the most brutal paradoxes facing men today: we're told to be strong but not too strong, vulnerable but not weak, connected but not needy. We explored how our culture has created an impossible box for men, one where every move feels wrong and authentic expression becomes a minefield. Aaron brought incredible insight into why men's work isn't just personal development, it's survival in a world that simultaneously demands everything from us while offering no safe space to be human.
You know, there's this myth that men are supposed to be lone wolves. Don't cry, don't be vulnerable, push through everything, ignore what's happening in your body. From a young age, boys get the message that whatever they're feeling is wrong. Sit still for eight hours even though you need to move. Don't show weakness. And then we wonder why so many men are struggling with depression, addiction, autoimmune issues, why they're checking out.
The thing is, we can't actually ignore our bodies and emotions. They don't go away just because we try to numb them with work, alcohol, porn, whatever. All that unprocessed material gets stored physically. It takes enormous energy to hold it down, and eventually it catches up with us.
That's where men's groups come in. They're not just accountability groups or goal-setting sessions. They're places where men can finally become present to what's actually true for them. Where we can feel what we've been holding and have other men hold that with us. No shame, no judgment, just connection. Because real safety isn't the absence of threat, it's the presence of connection. When men finally share what they've been carrying alone, sometimes for decades, and have it received without losing that connection, it's transformative.
We also talked about calling each other forward, not calling each other out. Seeing the best in each other and holding each other to that. That steady presence of "let's figure this out together" that so many of us never got from our fathers.
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Host: Foreign. I've come a long way in my journey since losing my son, but there's still a lot more to learn. So I'm sharing all that I've learned and continue to learn. I would like to ask a favor to anyone listening to Please like share, subscribe and follow wherever you're listening today. Give us a five star rating. This really helps move the message forward and doing so could change someone's life. You can find us on Spotify and Apple podcast under guys dealings with feelings and on YouTube and Instagram at it you thrive. That's the letter I, the number two, the letter U and the word thrive. So today I'm really excited, happy and thankful to have Jason Lange on. He's an embodiment coach, helping men find clarity in their life purpose and in their relationships. He spent the last 20 years helping men and I'm excited to talk to Jason because he's going to talk about a lot of the issues that we as men are facing both with finding purpose and with having healthy relationships. I'm so grateful that we were able to get you on today, Jason.
Jason Lange: I'm so excited to be here, Aaron. We were just chatting a little bit and already got me excited and pumped.
Host: Yeah, man. I've looked into some of Jason's stuff and it's. I'm excited to talk to him because he's really focusing on being a healthy man just to kind of kick things off. I'd like for you kind of give us an overview of how you're helping men find purpose with a little back story on, you know, listen to the interview and you're discussing the challenges men face trying to be a good human being without compromising who they are as a human. Specifically as a. Yeah, I think, you.
Jason Lange: Know, one of the challenges most men I know and work with come up across, and that I certainly came across, like you said, is our culture is inundated right now with what's wrong with men. You know, toxic masculinity all over the place. And the truth is this is good in the sense that there's some real problems that we've needed to surface about how men have traditionally acted in the past. Right. In historical context. But that's not all men are. And so one of the challenges a lot of men have right now is what am I supposed to be? What is a healthy, integrated, present man in the world these days? Most of us men grew up seeing kind of and experiencing and being painted a picture of what I kind of call the three major arcs. First and foremost, you know, just kind of the, the macho jerk, the my way or the highway guy that goes for what he wants, is mostly focused on himself and will take action regardless to a large extent of the consequences on other people of the planet, etc. And these men tend to get a lot of what they want, they tend to take a lot of action, but they often cause a lot of harm along the way. And we have many, many examples of what men in particular who are disconnected from their heart can do to people, the environment, etc. Now a lot of men, particularly in the like the 50s and 60s, started to grow up seeing and experiencing the negative impacts of being around that kind of man. They were abused by that man, they were neglected by that man, that man abandoned them, you know, whatever. Many of us have had those types of experiences with our fathers. And so there was kind of this pendulum swing in probably the last 40 to 50 years of what we kind of call the more typical nice guy. So this is a guy who's really sweet, really sensitive, deeply cares about the people around him and often prioritizes their well being above his own. So if that first man, we might say is kind of centered in his power center, his sexuality, his power, his power. His kind of, if you know, the chakras, kind of like the lower chakras, the second man, the nice guy, tends to often be centered around the heart, right? And it's a amazing evolution that we have more and more men showing up in this heart spaced way. But that often comes with problems. That comes with men not getting what they want, putting other people's needs above their own, having no capacity to set boundaries or take action on the things they want, or say no to people when it's appropriate to in some big ways and frankly to even sometimes just be in right alignment with their sexual energy as men, whoever they're attracted to that, wow, just because I'm attracted to someone doesn't make me bad or evil. And so there's limitations of the nice guy. And then there's also kind of the, it's a little more rare but third category. I'd say that I often associate more kind with grandfathers, but it's really anywhere. And, and that's kind of just the more traditional stoic, you know, I always use the image of many men actually had fathers like this or grandparents like this who were in one of the, you know, World War II, Korean War, Vietnam War, and they never knew it. Like later on, and much later on in life, they find out their grandfather had been through some intense experiences, but that person just never shares a thing about it. So the stoic is the kind of I show up, I do my job in life, and I really don't reveal my inner world at all. And all three of these are failing men currently. They cause all kinds of problems in terms of our mental health and quite frankly, our physical health. And so a lot of the work I do, Aaron, is what is the new integrated way us men can show up where we're in our power. We. We're still connected to our hearts and sensitive, and we're aware of kind of what's most important in any given moment in our relationships in the world around us. And we're willing to vulnerably invite and lead those around us into that. And so my journey was kind of more of the numbed out, nice guy. You know, I was totally disconnected, really uncomfortable with my sexuality, addicted to porn, had a really hard time talking to women. Couldn't really get myself going on the things I wanted to develop myself in in life. And I got really lucky in my 20s in that I got plunged into men's work in men's groups. Before they were quite as explosively big as they are now, which, you know, 20 years ago you said this, and people were like, well, my church group, and that's a type of men's group. And that's really been the main one around. But now there's this whole other layer that's been evolving since then, which is really about us men discovering together how we can show up fully in our full spectrum, selves, heart and, so to speak, cock all together. Because that's really what the world needs right now. You know, I'm a pretty firm believer in the world doesn't need less men and less masculinity right now. We actually need more healthy men who are willing to call each other out, call out injustices, and do the inner work they need to do to be healthy, present people in their families, communities and relationships. So that's my first salvo there. I don't know if I quite answered it.
Host: No, you did. I love it and I love so much about it because, you know, like you say, all three of those are failing men. We are facing a crisis. I don't have the statistics off the top of my head, but men are killing themselves at an alarming rate now. I think you point out some crucial things, you know, I focus a lot on. It's just hard for us to even talk about this stuff.
Jason Lange: Yes.
Host: The way we want.
Jason Lange: So groups, you know, like, just to summarize it, they're a place us men can come together and get real with each other about what we're actually feeling and experiencing in our lives.
Host: No, it's great. It's safe. It's a safe space for a man to go be vulnerable and make himself aware of who he is by going through that vulnerability. So it's great. Have you found that one is better than the other as far as live versus virtual or they're all. So they're both equally great about their pros and cons.
Jason Lange: For both, there's a certain tangible magic you can only get being in the same room. Like literally just having that physical meat space connection that is really profound for a lot of men. But I've been shocked. You know, I started this stuff before COVID like how well can work. And you know, it's not quite as maybe potent as the in lie, live in person thing, but you can get like 80% of the benefits and it's way more accessible for a far larger range of men who might live in more rural areas or different parts of the country where they, Right. This just isn't around them. Right. They don't have, they're like, I want to join a men's group, but there's nothing here. So I really am been quite amazed at how well both work. And for some men, I will also share the virtual ones can be a good gateway because some men, one of the reasons they don't trust other. They actually don't trust other men either. Sometimes because they had an extraordinarily volatile father who was not trustable or, yeah, sometimes they were betrayed or bullied by other men, you know, at moments in their lives. So for them to come into a group of men in itself is extremely vulnerable. And sometimes a virtual group is nice because you're still in like the safety of your home. And it, it doesn't quite put some men into that same fight or flight energy that they might get exposed to in person. But inevitably, most guys I work with, even if they start virtual at some point, they want to get in the room with guys and just give them a hug and just have that like, oh my God, it's so great to meet you in person.
Host: Right.
Jason Lange: They want to know, like, if someone could just tell me what's the path, I will show up and do it. But for many men, they don't even know that there's a path available. Right. They're just kind of left hanging out there in the world of like, hey, man, just deal with it. Toughen up. So, yeah, it's. It's all kinds of stuff that draws men to me. But, you know, if you keep having experiences over and over that you can't quite explain that in some ways harm your life or your relationships, that's a really good indicator. It's. It's maybe time.
Host: Yeah, I put. When you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, but you really. I think you touched on something a lot of guys are dealing with, and it's. It's a result or a byproduct of this Idea that we don't talk about this.
Jason Lange: So true.
Host: And when I say this, anything that's going on inside of us, anything that doesn't. Anything that is not a solution to a fiscal or physical problem, we really don't talk about. And that means that we haven't been talking to our spouses for 20 years, to your point. And then all of a sudden, they hit us with a, I don't want to be here anymore. And, you know, you're thinking, what the did I do? I've been doing the same thing for 20 years, and that's her problem. And. But we didn't know, you know, that's what I was supposed to be dealing with. So I, you know, it's really great you're dealing with this, and yet it comes out in so many different ways. And it's not just your. I think to your point, into what I. The reason I asked the question, that's the, the catalyst is often a loved one, a spouse, a child, somebody calling your ass out to say, you know, how long are you gonna lay there and be depressed? Or how, you know, you can't act like this? Or, you know, if you keep treating mom this way, she's gonna leave. Or mom saying, I'm gonna leave if you keep sitting on the couch. And, you know, like I was saying, you go to work, you get up, you go to work, you get off, you have a couple beers, you watch tv, you go to bed, you do it again. And I don't know, for some reason, I think guys can do that a lot easier. And. But in relationships, that doesn't work unless your spouse likes to work, come home, drink a couple beers, watch tv, and go to bed if that's not what they want. That ain't gonna work for forever. And it shouldn't. And she should stand up and she should say something, and you should make changes and you should do a call to action and say, how the hell can I change? If you really love this human being, maybe you don't want her in your life either. And it's a great thing anyway. But if. If you don't make changes, then things are going to continue that way. And. And I think you hit the nail on the head, feeling stuck. When we're just stuck and we don't know what the hell's going on. There's probably something internally boiling that we need to focus on. And it's so tough for guys to deal with. So is there any a tool or a process that you could give somebody that's like I'm not ready to, to call you. We'll get to calling you here in a minute. But I'm not ready necessarily to jump into a men's group. But something that a man could start to pay attention to, to realize, you know, hopefully before wife comes and says I'm done with you, or before somebody says, you can't act like this, some things that they can focus on to say, okay, I'm feeling stuck now. What are some steps or processes I can go through to see maybe what's going on?
Jason Lange: A lot of men get extraordinarily uncomfortable with the idea lowing down. So we always have something we're doing and it can be very, you know, this is what can actually surface a lot to let's say pick three hours on a Saturday afternoon, could go out on a hike, could go to a local park, find somewhere and just no devices, no audiobooks, no music, no activity, no sports. Go sit until your body mind slows down. And in our culture, our tech culture, this is, you know, the cards are stacked in a ways and a lot of men are. I don't have time to that I can't. But this is like live or die stuff to just slow down, breathe deeply and feel your body. Like just start there. Once you start there, things will start to become clearer. So that's one activity. The, the intentional practice of doing nothing, which is very challenging for a lot of men, but can reap a ton of rewards in our awareness of what, oh, this is what I want, or this is what needs to happen, or this is what's unaligned. Two other kind of quick hacks I would name that I do with men sometimes around like shadow work. Stuff I do is make a list throughout your week of where do you get overly reactive? Like just someone you know says something like where do you get triggered? Someone cuts you off in traffic, somebody speaks up at work, I have no idea. But to start to track when does your body get very reactive, noting those those are going to be often a portal to some deep work. What's triggering that? It's often some kind of historical context being mapped on to the current moment. And then last one I'll share for, for kind of guys like me, kind of more on the nice drum. It's to start to notice same thing. Do a little journaling throughout the week. Where am I feeling resentful in my life? What is it I'm resenting and why and where? Because often kind of like the metal detector for I have an unexpressed boundary or need or want that I haven't been direct and forward about. And it shows up off a passive aggressive kind of resentment we'll start to carry throughout our lives of how come my wife never does X, Y or Z? You know, she's da da, da. And the truth often is we've just never owned. Oh my God, once a week I would love for her to just make me a nice dinner and rub my feet. Like sometimes it's that simple, sometimes it's not that simple. But be three things. Doing nothing, starting a little journal about where you. Getting clear about anywhere you might be holding resentment in your life can, can all be portals into what's really going on underneath.
Host: Yeah, I love that. I'm sure you've seen it.
Jason Lange: There's a trend. I heard about that.
Jason Lange: Life. And for me to help you get clear. Right. One of the great things about men's group is we can often guide each other deeper than we can go alone. It's the great gift of the masculine, in a sense. So my job is to just help you become clear about what's true and what you really want in life. And if there's a way I can support you in that, I'll talk to you about different ways we could work together or programs, but sometimes it's just about getting this nugget of awareness that you're like, wow, that's enough for me to work with for six weeks, six months. I didn't even know that. So we just. We talk about you. You know, I'm not here to teach you anything, per se, in a call like that, but just to give you a space to talk about what's going on in your life and be really honest about it in a way. And, yeah, I would just say, you know, I really appreciated what you were sharing there at the end that, you know, some of the ways the culture and this kind of machismo is like, well, tell me, who's more afraid? The man who is terrified of his inner world and his emotional experience, or the man who's willing to go straight towards it? And one of the most profound gifts I got stepping into men's groups was being around other men who I got to see fully on one end, let's say, in their grief, their tears, their heartbreak. Yet I could still feel, wow, this guy is fucking solid. He is here. Like, he does not feel weak to me at all right now. I feel inspired by this man's humanness or even to the other side of, wow. This is a man fully in touch with his sacred rage right now, his anger, and yet I don't feel in danger at all. I feel profoundly safe. That anger, and it was having the experience of everything I've been taught about emotions as a man, as a man is bullshit. That real men. This is one of my first podcasts. Real men feel everything. They're like an open heart. You know, in some lineages, there's this. The warrior's heart is always broken because it's open. It hurts in a sense, but it's from that sensitivity we can take great action in the world. So it's not weak to feel. In fact, getting connected in community. You're so right. It makes you stronger, more resilient. You literally get sick less and live longer. The lone wolf thing we're fed is such a lie, because just look at nature. The lone wolf is actually the one that was kicked out of the pack. And they will die sooner. They will die sooner. It's not a badge of honor. We need each other. Doesn't mean we're victims. And just only rely on each other, but you will get farther and further in life enabled to support more people around you the better supported you are as a man.
Host: I love that. Yep, so true that a strong man is one who knows everything about himself. Man. I'm sure sure glad you came on with us today, Jason. Everybody listening. We're sure glad you took the time to listen. Hopefully we added some value to your day and your time because time is so valuable to us and we so appreciate you taking your time to listen to us. I hope you have a great day and we'll see you next time.
