What if the very thing we think makes us weak as men is actually what could make us the strongest fathers our kids will ever know? I got to sit down with Claire from Strong Single and Human right before Christmas, and we dug deep into this question, exploring what it actually means for men to show up differently in their lives, particularly for single fathers who are navigating both the challenge of raising kids alone and redefining what modern masculinity looks like.
We spent time unpacking the friendship recession that's hit men hard. The numbers are striking. Only 27% of men report having at least six close friends anymore, and the percentage of men with no close friends has jumped from 3% to 15%. For single dads especially, isolation can become this quiet crisis. You're working, parenting, exhausted, and the idea of making time for yourself feels impossible or selfish. But here's what I've seen over and over: self-care isn't selfish. If you're wiped out, you're no good to anyone, including your kids.
We talked a lot about men's groups, what they actually are beyond the stereotypes, and why they matter so much. A good men's group gives you two things: a place to be held when life is hard, and a place to get real accountability when you keep talking about something but not doing anything about it. It's also one of the few spaces where men get to be around each other without any demands on their attention. Nobody needs anything from you. You just get to be there. That's rare for most men, and it's deeply nourishing.
The other piece we got into is emotions. Most men were taught that feelings are weakness, that you should push past them, toughen up, stop crying. That accumulates over a lifetime and costs us energy, aliveness, and connection. Learning to feel again, to actually be in your body instead of constantly escaping it, that's some of the most powerful work a man can do. Not just for himself, but for his kids. Because when you change your relationship to your emotions, you're immediately teaching a different lesson to your children.
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Host: Welcome to the Strong Single and Human podcast. A real look at single parenting. How to navigate the ups and downs of life with kids on your own while keeping sane. We cover all manner of subjects from domestic violence, dealing with childhood trauma through to fussy eaters and how to help your kids become resilient. I'm your host, Clare Martin. Welcome. Jason Lange is a men's embodiment coach, group facilitator and evolutionary guide. He helps men drop in and wake up to deeper clarity in their life's purpose and relationships. He believes every man should be in a men's group for the growth and support opportunities they provide. Jason applies an integral framework to all his work, drawing on many disciplines and modalities to effectively serve. He has trained with the likes of John Wineland, Dr. Robert Glover, Trip Lainer, Ken Wilbur and is a Stages International certified debriefer. His online program, Pillars of Presence is a 16 week boot camp for men ready to transform their romantic relationships from the inside out that he co leads with Melanie Curtin. He also leads twice a year. He also leads twice a year shadow work based men's groups with Luke Alder in the Heart of Shadow program. Outside of men's Work, Jason is also a filmmaker and is blessed to be married to an amazing wife, Violet, who coaches women on love and femininity and and father to his amazing daughter Ruby. This is the Strong Single and Human podcast. Hi Jason Lange, welcome to the podcast.
Jason Lange: So excited to be here. Thanks for having me, Claire.
Host: No, thank you. Now we're going to discuss today something that's quite dear to my heart because I think single dads get a hard, hard rap as it were out in the world. There's so much single mum stuff out there. Instagram accounts, help lines, websites, podcasts and all those things. And I don't think single dads have, they have a few things. There's a few single dads out there on Insta and stuff like that, but I don't think they have too much. And look, the reason we, reason I've got you on the podcast, we've invited you along on the podcast is because you work with single dads quite a bit. But before we get into what you do and like try and give some single dads some practical self care and how they get through, how they drag them through the day and dealing with bringing up resilient kids and emotionally sound kids and all of the fears that we all have as parents. Who are you, Jason Lang? And how did you get to be helping single dads?
Jason Lange: Yeah, so These days, I'm a men's guide coach, which basically means I support men in thriving in life. And I've been doing that for about eight years now. And it really sprang out of my own journey in what we call kind of this rough body of work called men's work, right? Work that men do to get more healthy, essentially. And that was all driven just by, you know, my particular challenges growing up and the many things I did get from a family and the many things I didn't get from my family that then led me on this kind of wild goose chase to, hey, there must be a better way to be a human, because the way I was doing it was pretty painful. And so in that journey of growing myself, I started to spend, right. A lot of time with other men. And many men started coming to me and kind of asking me, you know, what was working for me. And that kind of kick started my journey as a guide for other men. And part of what we'll talk about here today is the probably most transformative thing that has stayed with me in my journey was joining a men's group. So getting into a. A connection, community in connection with other guys, where the purpose of it was to support each other in life. So that's what really lights me up these days, is supporting men, getting connected, particularly to other men. And one of the major clients I get in a lot of the work I do are single dads who are just incredibly isolated, often very overworked and fried. And, you know, this is a generalization, but one I think most people could agree with, that men tend to be a little stubborn when it comes to asking for help or support. So I think particularly for single guys, there's this single fathers, like, I'm struggling and I can't ask for help, right? And then that just kind of intensifies the whole thing.
Jason Lange: That's okay. Yeah. Well, my first group I joined in my mid-20s, which was, you know, 18, 19 years ago, and I didn't even know what a men's group was. I'd never heard of it. They were, like, on the periphery, particularly in the culture at that point. But I was doing some work somewhere, and some guys I liked, you know, said, hey, we want to start this thing. And I was like, okay, I'll try it. So I didn't have a ton of preconceived notions, but people do now, for sure. Right. Some for the better, some for the worse. And, you know, I often say men's group is. It's kind of like the term meditation. We throw it a around a lot, and it can actually mean a ton of different things. So there's actually lots of types of meditation, and there's lots of types of men's groups. But the 10, the kind I tend to support men in generally have two kind of core qualities to them. One, yes, they are a space for men to support each other when they're struggling or down. So this. This challenge, this edge for so many men are. I always have to hold it together, and I can never show any weakness. A lot of men are raised and taught this way, and, you know, there's some toughness that comes from that. That can be great, but nobody can do that all of the time. I've never met a human who can constantly be holding on. Sometimes as men, we need to be held as well. Just like, wow, life is really hard right now, and I don't know what to do.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: And so it might be an emotional release. Right. Which is so transformative for many men because. Yeah, we're taught or shamed or made fun of for even having emotions.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: A lot of the time in a lot of culture. And that thing about that is when we're not feeling our emotions as men in particular, that means we're holding them in our bodies as tension, often physical tension. Right. Actual tension in our bodies. And that takes energy.
Host: Oh, my God. So much energy.
Jason Lange: Right. That if you talk to many men I work with, what's the thing A lot of men battle? Not having enough energy for life. I gotta work all day, and then I gotta be present for my kids. And, you know, it's a human thing. But I think men in particularly particular, because we can. We. We tend to hold on to so much and prevent ourselves from feeling. It takes a lot of energy, and we're constantly exhausted, and then we just want to clap on, collapse on a couch, and zone out. Right. Because we're just empty. Like, we have nothing to give so on the one hand, men's groups give us. Gives us a place to learn to feel and to be safe. Just feeling, just feeling what's true in our body and actually getting connected to it. The other piece then, though, that often matches. That is what I kind of call the more challenge or accountability part that when there's something important in our life that we want to move forward or change, a men's group can help us do that. So they can help us keep our eye on the ball, so to speak, and give us feedback on how our plan is going. So oftentimes, guys, you know, I really. My job, I can't do it anymore. It's. It's. It's too much for me. And they might say that for four years, wow. But not actually take. Right, not actually take any action because they're afraid, like, I got to take care of my kid, like job market's crap or whatever that might be. So a men's group's the kind of place where, you know, a loving group of men, in addition to supporting you at some point might be like, hey, you've been talking about this for a couple years now, and we see the impact this job is having on you, and it. It's not having a great impact. So, like, what's your plan? What are you going to do to actually change your life instead of just complaining about it, let's say. And so there's that kind of dual action of supporting us when we're down and then helping us move things forward that are important to us. And when men have both, they can often transform and change really, really fast or faster than they might alone, as I often say. So a group like that, and then the other big piece is it's just connection and community. Something that I think men in general, we don't. We're not as default, good at maintaining relationships. Right. I think this is a gift of women in the feminine. Like, you know, even if they're busy, they might have a text thread going with some friends and just be chatting about life. And it's like, I haven't seen you in a couple weeks, but like, I feel connected to you. You know, a lot of men, we can go days, weeks, or months without letting anyone know what's going on with us. And so our, our connections can atrophy, can die really fast, in a sense. And so men's group's a great place to just get some of our connection needs met. Right. Just to be around human beings. And the unique thing I would argue about a A group of men, when men around men is the sweetest space for a lot of men is to be in connection and to be also in a place of. There's no demand on their attention. Right. So nobody needs anything from them. They just get to be in the men's group. And that's a place where a lot of men are just deeply malnourished. They don't allow themselves the space to just be somewhere. So when they're around other men, those men often don't need anything from them. She's like, oh, your life's hard right now, huh? Yeah, my life's hard, too. And there's just kind of like, yeah, we might work on it and stuff, but it's like, I don't need you to be a certain way right now or have attention or to be holding me. And that is so rejuvenating for so many men.
Host: Do you see certain times? And when you were talking there, I was sort of sitting here going, I could see certain times in men's lives where they really need a men's group. Right. So you said the first men's group you sort of went to that sort of got formed was. Was when you were in your 20s. Right. And I'm sort of sitting there when you were saying about that, I sort of sat there and went, well, yeah, because if you were doing sports up to that stage and you went to uni and you would have your group of friends there, and then you sort of leave all of that. It's like leaving school. Right. You've, like, spent your life with these people, and then you, like, leave school and may never see these people again. Right. And these guys, you know, these people. I've moved to another country just to make it really hard to connect with people. But. But, like, you move away and these people move away and get jobs elsewhere or, you know, things like that. And therefore, they. You lose those connections. You lose those connections with people that know you. Not through your fault, but just because life moves on. So is that what you're. Is that what you see? Is there certain phases in people's lives?
Jason Lange: I definitely think there's different phases. And for a lot of men, it, I think, gets worse as they age.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: Because, you know, they start families or they get into, you know, a job environment. And one of the first things men will often let go of is their community or their passions or their hobbies. Right. Which the paradox is these are the things that often help them attract a partner in the first place. It's like, oh, this guy really loves rock climbing, and he's like, takes care of himself or whatever, and then they get into relationship and they stop doing that. But, yeah, you know, which causes all kinds of other problems. Yeah.
Host: There's no time for anything else when you have kids. But.
Jason Lange: Yeah, the. But, yeah, in particular that, you know, there's a term for this people kind of throw around called the friendship recession. And it's hit men particularly. Particularly in that when they were tracking this, you know, starting kind of in the 1990s to recently, the percentage of men with at least six close friends fell by half.
Host: Wow.
Jason Lange: From 55% of men down to about 27% of men. So only 27% of men in. In. In this big study had at least six close friends. Wow. So the majority of men did not have many. And then just the. The percentage of men who had no close friends went from 3 to 15%. So, like, it's trending in the wrong direction, let's just say. And single men, you know, tend to get hit the worst. And so men who aren't in a relationship, many of them will report having sometimes no close friends. And then when you add a kid on top of that, if you're a single parent. Right. You have less time.
Host: Oh, yeah.
Jason Lange: To go out, to be meeting people, to be creating new connections and whatnot. So it's why I see a lot of single, single fathers showing up into some of my work is, for one. You know, part of what I talk to them about is, you know, we're concerned about efficiency. Like, I can't go hang out three or four nights a week. Maybe I can do four hours a month total, let's just say. So in that four hours, I want to go deep, and I want to be very efficient in terms of creating connection and community. And that's something I would argue a men's group is particularly good at. But as. As men, you know, the other thing I will say is. Yeah. Oftentimes guys will be in a relationship or in a marriage, and then it'll fall apart. They'll be trying to hold it together, single. And then they finally realize, I can't do this alone. I need some help. And then they'll reach out and show up to something like some of my groups.
Host: That's right. And. Okay, so I'm going to delve into the realm of men's group. Right. And I don't know if anyone out there is. It wants, like, it feels like a secret society. Right. And I'm sure it's not. But it's sort of like what happens at men's group, right? Is it that you all sit around in a circle like Alcoholics Anonymous? Here we go. I'm going with all the stereotypes right here at the moment, because I know, because I've been like, I've got mother's group. I never really heard of a father's group, but maybe there is. But I've got mother's group. And we all got together when our kids were like, six months old. And we still sort of stay in contact with each other. We've still got a WhatsApp group. You know, it's that. It's that female thing, right. We chat, we send pictures of our kids, we're on Facebook, you know, and all of these things. But I've never seen father. A father's group, right. And. And. And I wonder with men's group, right? What do you all do? What do you like. Do you make stuff? Do you. I don't know, because I'm imagining there's myriad different ones, and we have men's sheds over here in Australia. And so men's sheds are men getting together, making stuff. I think I've not. And I'd love my dad to actually join a man's shed, but he is of the belief that he doesn't need to, and I think he needs to. But, hey, it's working progress. It is a work in progress because I think him making stuff would be a good thing. But what happens. I'm gonna stop talking now. What happens at these men's group?
Jason Lange: Yeah, I'll just say that the. On the joining a group, like, there is some research that's come out that whether it's a men's group, a maker group, a social club, literally anything, what they found is just joining a group will increase your life expectancy.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: So being part of a communal group you meet with, like, regularly will increase your. Literally how long you live. It's. It's that important to us. But a men's group, like you said, is. Yeah. It's a particular manifestation of this that I, you know, I'm very passionate about. And like I said, there's many different types of men's groups, but oftentimes they'll start at least in the ones I lead with a little, what we call embodiment practice. So that could be meditation, that could be breath work, that could be something like tai chi or qigong.
Host: That could.
Jason Lange: To just help get us into the moment so not stuck in our heads y. Thinking about all the stuff I got to do tomorrow, next day, it's, can I get into my body right here and now? Right. Take a deep breath, arrive, literally, wake up my body a bit. We'll often start with that. Then we'll do oftentimes check ins, which are kind of short, five to ten minute. Just each man a little like, what are you showing up with? What are you feeling in your body? What's going on in your life? You know, on a scale of 1 to 10, where are you? All kinds of different frames for that. And then, you know, some men's groups, they'll have like a topic, something they could talk about. I tend to avoid that because men just love to talk about things. And so if you bring up a topic, men can just talk about things for an hour and no one's actually talked about their lives.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: So I tend to skip that part. And then after check ins. Yeah, Just create some space where any man who needs some attention about anything can ask for it, can share into the space, and then can get feedback from other men. It's really kind of that simple. Tears can definitely be part of it. For some guys, that happens sometimes. Laughter can be part of it. Joy can be part of it, Clarity can be part of it. But the idea is you're bringing forth, you know, what's most important in your life right now. What are the biggest challenges and what are you wanting? Right. The other thing I think is a huge edge for so many guys, including single fathers that come into groups, is they feel like they don't have the time or energy or even ability to. To slow down and actually think about what they want. It's like life is just demanding so much from them. It's like they get sucked down to an elevator. And then, you know, five, 10 years later, they're like, I don't even know if I wanted to be here. Right. I forgot. I forgot to be me. And so I'm a pretty big proponent and pretty fierce sometimes because it's hard. You know, I'm not a single father myself, but I work with a lot of them. But I am very strong. Let's just say when it comes to the platitude of, you got to put the oxygen mask on yourself first.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: If you're not taking care of yourself, you're not taking care of your kid in the way you could be. So sometimes the most loving thing you can do is, I did get a babysitter so I can go to the spa for two hours because that's what daddy needs tonight.
Host: Oh, yeah.
Jason Lange: To Just sweat it out and get into my body. So then tomorrow when I'm, when I come home, I can really have energy in my body and be alive and actually be present with you in a way I might not be otherwise. So that's one thing I see. Men's group help a lot of men do is realize that it's kind of their responsibility. I know it sounds so simple, but it's, it's each man's responsibility to take care of themselves.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: And it's not selfish. Self care is not selfish. If you are wiped out, you're no good to anyone. And you know, we're, we're all part of this generation now. Where, and I've been, you know, I'm, I'm not pointing fingers, I've done it. You know, just put the kid in front of the tv, give him a device that's not really helping anyone long term because we're too fried, right? We're like, huh? But sometimes it means I need some help. I need someone to come watch my kid for a little bit so I can go take care of myself. And you know, there's all kinds of challenges around that. But again, it's one of the great things. You start to build strong male community. You can start to ask people for help, hey, I have a really important thing or I need to do this thing. I trust you. You're my friend. My kid knows you could wear range one day next week where you pick them up and take them out for ice cream. So I can get just like 90 minutes to myself. Like that's the kind of stuff that friends, you know, can start to do if you don't have anyone around. And it can be life changing.
Host: Well, and I'm thinking men's group could be good at helping single fathers handle loneliness as well and isolation.
Jason Lange: Right.
Host: Because there are other men. Okay, so we're assuming there are other men at this group.
Jason Lange: Right.
Host: These other men have lives outside of men's group. They may have wives like you've said, they may have children like you've said. Right. And if you're a single dad who is in a group and the other men there have kids.
Jason Lange: Right.
Host: Might be that their kids are the same sort of age as your child and you can connect up and the kids can play together, you can have, you can get out and you know, you can. I don't know. I mean, we do it here, but this is mums, I have to say. But like we'll go and take our kids down the park and we'll go right, let's get some. It's Australia. So we do barbecues where we cook sausages and then eat them out of bread. I don't know why, I'm English, it's an Australian thing. But hey, like we just go take a pack of sausages, cook it on a. We have public barbecues so we can cook them on the public barbecues. Give, bring a loaf of bread with you and you give the kids a sausage in a piece of bread. Happy days. Right? It's a serviette holdy thing and they are happy because they're eating a sausage. It's like win, win. But we'll go down and do that and see there's no reason you can't do that with as a single dad with another family, other single dads or other dads who have kids and a part of families just to help you with your child. And I know one of my biggest concerns, and I know I'm a mom, but one of my biggest concerns is I've only got one child and one of my biggest concern was I've only got a child and he's going to get so bored with me because I'm a mum, right. And he doesn't want to play with me. I mean, you know, sometimes he does, but most of the time he wants to play with his mates, other kids at the same age or similar age to him because they understand, they all go off and they kick the balls around and they go on the park. So. So there's other advantages to men's group as well, isn't that there's outside of just the group?
Jason Lange: Yes. So you're building the offline connections. Yeah. Or things like that which are really important, which can create a sense of community for the children too over time, you know, like my men's group, you know, we do a holiday party every year right around Christmas time. We'll have a special dinner where we bring the families, the kids and all the spouses get to hang out and it creates something special, Right. It creates a special experience like that's a non family family, Right. That we get to create memories with, which is really, really amazing. And then the other benefit related to that. Yeah. Whether it's a single father's men's group and they do exist, or a father's men's group or a blend, getting to meet other parents or other men who are at different phases of the fathering journey is also incredible. So one of the groups I'm part of, I'm the. I'm the youngest guy and many of them are, you know, 20 or 30 years older than me. And they've, their kids are launched. Right. They did the whole thing. And having them on my speed dial, so to speak, has been incredible. Yeah, Just incredible. When I'm having to freak out about something or worried about something and they're like, well, yeah, here's, here's how I got through that and here's how my kid turned out or here's what worked for us or, or just sometimes the. Oh yeah, I remember how hard that is. That's just a really hard phase.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: But having those. This is one of the things I love about men's group is it's also one of the few places men get exposed to cross generational men. Right. Where a lot of the old infrastructure for just connecting to elders or even young people has kind of gotten wiped out. And there's something super fun about connecting to older wise men and just youthful, passionate, energetic guys as well who are just like fired up and you're like, oh yeah, I remember that age. Right. And like kind of wakes you up in a sense. So that's one of the other things I love about it and can be so great for, for father, single fathers in particular because again, you're building yourself community. You're potentially building community for your kid. You're getting your connection needs met. And as I say, every investment into another man is exactly that. It's an investment that can pay you back. And so I can't tell you, you know, I'm, I'm actually getting ready to do a, a cross country move here in a couple of weeks. And you know who's helping me pack up my men's group?
Host: Wow.
Jason Lange: He's going to be helping me unpack on the other side, the men's group I'll be joining out there. Like, it's, it's men who are actually showing up for the most important moments of my life. And that's something that's just incredibly invaluable. It's not the only place you can get that right in a men's group. But there's a particular kind of depth and connection that you can cultivate with those guys that, that when you do get into red alert emergency territory, it's like, okay, I know who I can call to trust and they're going to do that. I trust that'll do whatever they can to support me because it's, they're deeper than just the kind of shallow, you know, what I typically call the normal guy relationships Of. And, you know, this is a generalization again, but, you know, most men learn to relate through this, what I call triangulation. So me and you have our attention on a third thing. A sporting game.
Host: Yes.
Jason Lange: A movie, an event.
Host: Safe place.
Jason Lange: And. Yeah. And it. You know, there's time and place for it. I enjoy it, too.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: But what that often misses is our attention is not on each other.
Host: No.
Jason Lange: I don't actually know what's going on in your life. I have no idea why you even split up with your partner. Right. Like, because we just meet up and fish or whatever. And. And so what I kind of argue for is taking it a little deeper. What happens when you turn your attention on each other. Hey, what's going on in your life? What's really hard right now? What's really awesome right now? Just simple questions like that. And it can drastically change the nature of connection for men. And what I find is, once they do find a safe space where they can go there, men actually have a lot to share because they don't have anywhere else to share it. And then suddenly it's like, you know, the fire hose comes out, like, because they've been holding so much in isolation for so long.
Host: And I think also, I mean, I. I have a lot of male friends, right? And it's funny when you were sitting there saying about connecting in with the older people in your men's group, that basically, if you've got a challenge with your child or whatever, right? I'd sit there and go, we need more parent group. I was sitting there thinking, we need more parent groups because I'm a single mom of a boy, right? I have no idea. I mean, I've read the books, but, you know, I have no idea what this kid is going through, the hormonal changes he will hit as he hits puberty, and all of the challenges that I need to navigate on my own as a single mom. And so to actually have someone that go, hey, Mike, I discovered my kid was doing this the other day or whatever, right? And for single dads of daughters to be able to connect with a female that goes, yes, and just, you know, and just to connect for advice, and, oh, my God, my daughter was doing this. And, like, I've had single dads that I know of, daughters go, oh, my God, like, it's getting near that time where she's going to hit puberty, and what do I need to do? And as women, we go, right, okay, you need to get all of the stuff ready because, like, it'll be A bit of a shock. And all of the. So. So, yeah, maybe we need to do more single parent. Maybe I need to start this single parent wave. But then also I was thinking. I'm thinking. And then it's just gone out of my head, which is driving me insane. But you were saying about connecting with the emotional side and the fact that we've got this triangle and. And things like that, right? And it is so very often. And I think a YouTube video that's out there, that's got, I don't know, must be a billion views now, is Norwich City Football Club, which is my hometown, I have to say. So it does have a little heart, a little special place in my heart. But Norwich City Football Club actually did a YouTube video for male suicide of two guys sitting at the match going and watch a football match together, right? And then as it goes through the video, Sorry, I'm spoiler for those who didn't want to know the end. But as it goes through the video, right, one of the guys, obviously, it's all. He doesn't turn up. So it's sort of in Stew In Stude that he's killed himself, right. And when you were saying what you were saying, right, it's just came across this very. Like, it does happen, right? Even us women, we go along and we meet each other at school and we chat and so. But we don't actually then go, oh, we had a bad day the other day, or whatever. And so, like, these sort of. The deeper connection, the focused connection, I think is really essential because when you feel like you have to deal with things on your own and you don't have anyone, you're in isolation, you don't have anyone to share it with. That's when darker, deeper feelings come in and. And you then do get a bit destitute and sort of go to those spaces. But, yeah, that was very apparent with that video. Like when you were saying, I went, oh, yeah, I can remember watching that video. But, yeah. So how big are these men's group? I'm assuming they can't be, like, 50 people. Like, are they like, what, 10, 12 or.
Jason Lange: Yeah, most groups I run range between, like, 6 to 12.
Host: Okay.
Jason Lange: You know, there's definitely, you know, usually a couple men that can't make it or for whatever reason. So, you know, the sweet spot is in that 6 to 12 range because you want to have enough time where every man can bring his voice in. But then obviously, you don't have enough time for 12 people to share every week. So there's that sweet spot of finding the right amount where you can create that intimacy and go. But it ranges. And, you know, some groups I've been in have been in as small as, you know, four to six. Some have been as big as 12, and they all have pros and cons. But it's the most important thing I say to guys is you want to find men who are just really committed to being there in that time and value it, because obviously, it is time. Particularly for single parents, it's time away from your kid. So if it's time away from your kid, it's got to be worth it. You know, I'm not even a single parent, and that's changed a lot since I had a kid where it's like, oh, yeah, I don't know, do I want to go to that event or travel or do that thing? Because that's time I don't get back with my child. Right.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: So for me to make that choice, it has to be worth it. Men's group is a place that I've always gone to, and it's always felt worth it. I come out the other side and I'm like, that was time well spent. And I come back paradoxically. Well, not paradoxically, but part of the reason I know it's time well spent is because I come back more resourced with energy to be even more present with my child. Right. Which is the most important thing.
Host: Yeah, exactly.
Jason Lange: Which is really the most important thing in that, you know, the emotional piece you mentioned, too, I'll. I'll just highlight again, I think this is a particular challenge for men because so much of the kind of macho culture we're raised in is about being tough. And what tough really means is don't have feelings. Whatever you're feeling, push past them. Right. And many boys, and not just boys, you know, girls, but boys I think in particular hear this thing growing up of, stop crying, stop crying, toughen up. Which, you know, when you think about it, all that really means is what you're feeling in your body is wrong, so don't feel it. And that accumulates in men. And then we get into kind of locker room culture of our teenage years, and that just accelerates that, oh, my God, I can never show weakness or never show vulnerability because I'll get attacked or bullied. And that stuff's real. But it. Like I said, it. It has a very. It has quite a cost. So part of what men's group is doing is training men back into our bodies and our emotions. To teach us how to feel them. Which again, one of the many benefits of why I'm such so huge on this for single parents and just parents alike, is what's one of the greatest gifts you can teach your children how to handle their emotions, how to self regulate, how to not just stuff it down or overreact. In most men I work with, why that's a big challenge is nobody ever modeled it for us.
Host: No.
Jason Lange: Right. Dad was just tight lipped, never shared a thing or exploded in rage and drank it off or you know, there's so many different manifestations of that. But it's pretty rare for men to have a model of wow, this man is crying and he feels powerful. Or I can tell he's furious and angry, but he actually still feels safe. Meaning he's not overwhelmed by his emotions, but he's in touch with them. Hey, emotions are a normal part of the human experience. Sometimes I feel sad, sometimes I feel angry and I can handle them. And that's such a great gift to our children, really that wow, it's okay to have your emotions. You don't have to pretend like they're not there. And for men, you don't have to drink them off, you don't have to smoke them off, you don't have to jerk them off. Like literally masturbation is a big one for guys or sex like eject from our bodies so we don't have to feel. So learning to feel is, you know, in a, you know, at a deeper level. This is like one of the biggest things, gifts I think we can give our kids is, is, is changing our relationship to our emotions from whatever our parents taught us.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: Because just by us changing our relationship to our emotions, we're immediately teaching a different lesson to our kids. Which I'll also just double click. The, the self care thing that comes up so big, I think particularly for single parents is, you know, well, I don't have time to take care of myself because I have to take care of my kid. Well, you're actually teaching a lesson right there.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: That self care is not important. So your kid is absorbing other people's needs are more important than mine because that's what's happening for dad or mom. And as hard as it might be, sometimes it's like you're going to have a babysitter tomorrow or you're going to stay with grandma or grandpa. Daddy needs a day to go be with his friends or go to, you know, take care of himself because it's really important that we take care of ourselves so we can show up for the people in our lives. That's teaching a super important lesson to your children that they can then internalize of. Wow. It is important for me to take time off for work or to recharge or to do fun things or, you know, all those different things. So the. So many lessons also get transmitted through us men when we step into this men's group work.
Host: Yeah. And I think it's important because as men, especially as I have a boy.
Jason Lange: Right.
Host: But as men, the influence on our boys, although as a mom, I think I have a fantastic, awesome influence.
Jason Lange: Right.
Host: At the age of six or seven, he's off. Right. He's looking at male role models and how that should actually, you know, how he should be as a male in his environment.
Jason Lange: Right.
Host: And so therefore, if you're connecting in and understanding feelings and all of those sort of things, there are only so many things I can teach him as a mom, and they're great, but I need to respect that his dad also and the males in his life need to teach him a few things as well. And it's about surrounding him with males who are emotionally intelligent, I suppose, for want of a better word. Yes, definitely. And to understand also all of us parents that. And that's the reason I called the podcast Strong, single and human. Right. Is we are all human. We're not going to be perfect 100% of the time. And so that human element, we should be showing our flaws to our children. We aren't. They shouldn't be putting on a pedestal and saying we're perfect, but we should be actually sort of learning from that and going, hey, you know, I wasn't as effective as I should have been yesterday. You know, and this is. And recognizing our feelings like that self care there and recognizing our feelings and what we're going through and how we react to the world and our children and other people and actually saying, well, okay, what can I learn from it? And maybe talking to children through that aspect as well. And I know I've been a culprit of that, where I've sat there, exploded, and then gone, oh, buddy, mommy shouldn't have done that. And that's not really effective. And this is how I maybe should have, like, done it. And. Yeah. So, yeah. And it's just. Yeah, it's what we do. So is it like, okay, is that I'm in talking to you and I was going, okay, it feels like you're at the advanced stage, Jason, of like, your advanced men's group. Right? So is there like a dip your toe in, see if you, like, what your. What the men's group thing is? Because I'm not sure whether this is for me or whatever. Like, are there, like, beginner men's groups? And I don't. I don't know, but, like, are there?
Jason Lange: Sure.
Host: And what would they be? Like.
Jason Lange: There'S. There's a grow. You know, it's a growing movement right now, I think, because men are waking up to the fact that, yeah, it's hard and we can't do this alone. And the. The narrative, we're kind of fed of the lone wolf that just. I can do it all by myself. It. It doesn't work. Men end up getting addicted to alcohol, porn, wheat. Like, all these things I talked about where their body fails them physically. Autoimmune stuff shows up, you know, particularly as men age. Like, this stuff really catches up fast. And, you know, heart disease. I mean, the stats alone just on loneliness. So, like, what we were talking about is just as damaging as smoking a pack of cigarettes a day.
Host: Oh, my God. Yeah.
Jason Lange: Like, it's. It's. It's intense. Like, the. The actual impact it has on your longevity and health, particularly as men, is massive. So there are lots of different. Men's groups are starting to sprout up everywhere. So, you know, wherever you are listening to this, you know, first step is, yeah, do a little. Do a little Googling. Yeah, Right. See if there's anything local in your area. If you're looking for a little contact in the real world. Meetup.com eventbrite there's, you know, lots of different clubs and social websites like that you can start looking for. There are definitely ones starting up for single parents and fathers that you can kind of turn towards to just try it out. And then the thing I tell most men, honestly, is it can also be a incredible opportunity for leadership for you in that if you're in your town and you can't find one, I almost guarantee there are other men there who could be served by one as well. And it sounds like this big, intimidating thing to start a men's group. How do I do it? Whatnot. And, you know, I train guys on that. But the. The simplest thing, and some of, you know, the group I'm in now just started with me identifying two guys I had connection with in my life, in my neighborhood, kind of, and saying, I'd like to do this thing. Would you be interested in trying it with me? Just get together for two hours twice a month, every other week, where we talk about what's actually going on in our lives and we support and challenge each other. And that was enough that sprang up, those two. And then once we were meeting, other guys started to hear about it, and, you know, our group kind of coalesced and formed. So it doesn't have to be this huge thing, you know, it doesn't even have to be a permanent thing. Sometimes I have a lot. I get a lot of guys into this work and they're like, yeah, I actually saw my buddy and we went deeper in an hour than we have in 20 years.
Host: Wow.
Jason Lange: You know, because we actually decided to.
Host: Get real something instead of doing the triangulation thing.
Jason Lange: Exactly. And then that connection, which they already had, becomes totally different, a different kind of resource where they're like, wow, now we kind of have permission with each other to get real. And it might just be a men's group of two in that sense of just. I've had many men who are like, yeah, I now meet up with my old college buddy once a month and. And. And we talk and we get real. So there's lots of ways this can manifest, but the. The commitment is, I need to start getting real and stop holding everything inside and pretending like I've got it all together. Because I don't care who you are as a man, you don't have it all together. You have up days, you have down days. We all have places to grow and. And other men can support us in that, frankly, like, they can, you know, as I is. Is. I say it's, you know, getting connection with other men. It doesn't make life necessarily easier, but it makes it a lot better. It's like, oh, wow, yeah, there's a connection here. They're sharing now. You know, I joke a lot of times with many men of, you know, you think. Think of something, like, really annoying you have to do, like, I don't know, shoveling stuff in the backyard or doing your taxes once a year. You know, just, you know, it's the stuff that we just don't want to do in life, but sometimes you just have to do it. And you can think about just like, I gotta sit there and I gotta do it. And then I'll often say, what would happen if you just invited somebody over and they did it with you? So you just both sat and did your taxes, and every 10 minutes you took a break and just chatted with each other. It's the same really annoying work. But the connection. Yeah, makes it so much more fun, so much more alive and that's kind of point. Part of what I'm pointing to here is when we have the connection in life, we're more resourced against the stresses that are inevitably going to come our way. Connection is kind of like the. This. The. The superpower we have that when we're feeling connected, we can just handle more. We become actually more resilient. So whether it's in a, you know, a formal men's group, like the things I talk about, or it's just going deep with a buddy you have or inviting a couple of guys, you know, that you just have an intuition. Like, I feel like these guys are deep. I've always liked them. You know, maybe I should just reach out and see what happens. Do it. It makes you an incredible leader and it can be a huge gift to the other men as well.
Host: And there's not much organizing to it, though, really. You could just be going, right, we're all going to meet on Sunday down at the coffee shop, brunch and a chat. Or you can meet at somebody's house, or we're all going to meet up and we're going to go for a walk. I mean, I say all, but it could be three of you, right. Or it could be 12 of you. I think 12 going for a walk might be a bit much, but, you know, it's just meeting up and chatting and connecting. Do you think that meeting up in a men's group has helped in air, Helped recognize areas where you need to grow as well? Have other men actually gone or. Actually, I know your concept of yourself is X, but I think you might need to look at maybe doing this or like, and sort of.
Jason Lange: Yeah, yeah. One of the feedback. Right. Healthy. And the thing with this is it's. It's loving feedback.
Host: Yes.
Jason Lange: Right. It's the type. And men, actually, I would argue deeply crave this. Somebody who loves them enough to call them on their.
Host: Yeah, right.
Jason Lange: That's like, hey, you know what. What I see happening, or you know, how you're treating that woman you're dating or what's been going on with you and your kid. Like, man, I know you got better than that. Yeah, I know you can do better than I know who you are. Like, what's going on? Let's figure this out. So many men, like, actually long for that. Like, someone actually cares enough about me to. To. To kind of disrupt me.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: In a sense. And, you know, I don't say call out so much as call forward. We're like calling someone forward into the best version of themselves into connection. And that feedback is powerful. And it's particularly powerful because other people can see our shadows faster than we can.
Host: Yeah, right.
Jason Lange: So, like, literally the term in the work I do, right, is shadow. And when you think about a shadow, it's like, oh, where's my shadow? I don't see my shadow. But you're looking at me and you're like, it's right there. Yeah, right. Every time you talk about this, or here's this thing I've noticed 10 times now, every time, it's super often obvious to other people. And so men get to really sharpen each other in that way to become the most whole versions of themselves they can be. And so many men are missing that these days. Right. They don't have anybody that, you know, loves them enough to kind of tell it how it is. So, you know, I always. The. The jokey kind of analogy of the spinach in the teeth, like, yeah, you want a friend who will say, like, hey, you know, you have a huge piece of spinach in your teeth right now, and you don't want the friend that doesn't say anything for an hour and a half. And then finally you look in the mirror and you're like, oh, my God, I was. I look like such an idiot. Why didn't you tell me? And they're like, well, I didn't want to make you embarrassed. You're like, well, that actually didn't really help me. So men's group, that kind of feedback, it really can accelerate growth. And then the other place it accelerates it is when we see other men navigating or responding to life challenges. It provides us a sense of where we can grow. Just. Just that simple. You know, one of the things that, like I said, particularly seeing older men in some of my first groups, that was so transformative for me was I never had a model of what healthy masculinity was. And suddenly I was sitting in a room with guys where I was like, that's it. Like, that's what I want to be when I grow up, so to speak. Right. There was like a. I want to breathe like you. The way you're talking to people, the way you hold yourself, like, I can feel it in my nervous system. It's not wound up, it's not overly heady. It's just present grounded here. And we get to experience that in other men.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: And, you know, the light on the. On the father theme, the last part I'll share around this is, you know, some men are blessed to have great Fathers. But no father is perfect.
Host: No.
Jason Lange: And one of the cool things I've seen in a men's group is in a unique way, it's the group itself becomes the father figure that can reparent us. Because I get a little piece from this man about, wow, he's really great in finance, and he's just crushing it in his career. And I get a little piece from this guy. He's like, he's just an incredible father. Where this guy is just amazing in his relationships or his health. And suddenly we're getting like the best of all these different men. And it can help us construct this healthy version of ourselves that we sometimes we can never even get from the perfect dad, because one dad's always going to have some gifts and some flaws. And you get a group of people and it's like there's so many more strengths available to you that you get to absorb as a man.
Host: Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. So look where Jason, can people find about you online? Because you've been talking for almost an hour now, and I'm just going, maybe people want to know a little bit more about you and what you do and your men's group and things like that. So where can people find you online?
Jason Lange: Yeah, best place to check me out [email protected]. so it's actually.men.com.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: Yep. And on there, you can see the different groups I lead. I lead a lot of virtual groups and programs, so it is accessible to men all around the world. It often kind of becomes the on ramp for them then getting involved more locally, in a sense. I have a podcast of my own. I do some writing. So if you're just, like, intrigued, you know, what is this all about? You can just go there. You can reach out to me on my contact form if you have questions. And, you know, even if it's not working with me, I'm very passionate about getting men fired up to join, find, or create their own groups. So I'm happy to support you in that journey, whatever that might look like.
Host: And your podcast, is your podcast called Evolutionary Men or is it called something else?
Jason Lange: That's right. Yeah.
Host: Just Evolution.
Jason Lange: Yeah, just Evolutionary Men. So, yeah, you can find my podcast and I talk about all kinds of this kind of stuff on there for men. Yeah.
Host: No, that's awesome. That's awesome. Well, look, one final question for you. What's a piece of advice that you've been given in or out of a men's group that you still use today?
Jason Lange: Yeah, absolutely. I think it's really been as a man in particular, create the time in your life to sometimes do nothing. This sounds so crazy.
Host: No, it sounds great for the.
Jason Lange: For the masculine in particular, for men, the restorative power of doing nothing. So when I say nothing, it's not scrolling your phone, it's not watching tv. Particularly when you combine nothing with nature, it's like, you can come back alive. I'll give this to guys as a practice, and they're like, wow, I went out to the park for like 20 minutes and I just sat in nature and I felt better afterwards.
Host: Oh, God. Yeah.
Jason Lange: You know, like, I felt more alive. I felt rejuvenated. I was like, actually in the moment, my mind quiet down. So one of the best things I was taught is just, it's our responsibility as men to get ourselves nourished in those ways. Get ourselves nourished in those ways. Nobody is going to do it for you. It's not selfish because the. The more juice, literally the more energy you have in your body, the more you can truly take care of the people around you. But it's your responsibility to take care of yourself and ask for help sometimes in doing that.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: But if you can find some time to genuinely do nothing, it can be so healing. So healing. And it'll often fall to the bottom of the list. Right. With life and work and kids, like, I can't do that. And then we get tired, grumpy, burdened, ornery. We're just numbed out. You know, we're with our kid, but we're not actually with our kid.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: And that hurts them in a different way. So. Yeah. Take some time for yourself. That, that. The more I do that, paradoxically, the more people in my family, in my life, in my community are so excited to be around me.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: Because.
Host: No, that's right.
Jason Lange: Because I'm alive.
Host: Yeah, exactly. And. And it doesn't have to be long, Right. We're not talking about an hour. It can be 10, 15 minutes. If you've got 10, 15 minutes, just take that time out. And.
Jason Lange: Yeah.
Host: You know, if I'm feeling overwhelmed, I must admit I sometimes get up earlier in the morning just so I can sit and have a cup of coffee on my own. Not doing anything. But you just sit, have a cup of coffee, chill out. Admittedly, it's dark in the mornings here in Australia, but, like, when it's bright and light in the mornings, or even take a break from a meeting. So I tend to, if I work from home, I'll take 10 minutes out, go sit in the garden. I have no children or anything at the house because they should be at school. So I go and sit outside, go and sit outside and have a cup of tea and listen to the birds. So all good? All good. Thank you. Jason, thank you ever so much for coming on board and talking to us today about men groups and their benefits and, and what they are. And they're not some mystery, secret handshake group that, you know, people should be afraid of. They should. They're there to help people. So look, thank you for coming and talking to us and I wish you all the luck with your move and your men's grace.
Jason Lange: Yeah, thank you so much, Claire. And thank you for the work you do supporting, supporting parents. You know, I think that's probably the biggest leverage point we have on making the world a better place. Yeah, it's just raising and supporting our kids. So really. Yeah. Really honored to be part of what you've created.
Host: No, thank you. Thanks for listening. If you've enjoyed this podcast and you would like to hear more, please hit subscribe wherever you like to hear podcasts. If you would like to support us further, share this episode with your friends and family and finally drop us a review on itunes as I'd love to hear your thoughts, comments and ideas. It all helps me to understand and produce awesome content you want to hear just like this. If you want to check out our past episodes, write to us, appear on the podcast or for links, resources and show notes, go to our website, www.strongsingleandhuman.com. we are also on all the usual social media platforms, Insta, Facey and Twitter. I hope you have a wonderful week and I hope to see you back here in again soon. Be kind to yourself and remember, no one is perfect. We're all just putting one foot in front of the other and doing our best. I'm Claire Martin and you've been listening to the strong, single and human podcast.
