Breaking the Lone Wolf Myth: Jason Lange on Men’s Groups, Embodiment & Emotional Strength | Mind Over Masculinity

Host: Foreign. Welcome back to another episode of Mind Over Masculinity. I'm your host, awake, and today we are diving deep into a conversation that's long overdue but critical for the evolution of modern masculinity. So we are talking about men's groups, men's mental health and the radical path to the emotional freedom. And to help us crack this wide open, I am joined by someone who truly walks the talk, Jason Blank. So welcome to the show, Jason.

Jason Lange: So glad to be here. Thanks for having me. Pumped to have this conversation.

Host: Amazing, amazing. So, Jason, like, before we start, I'll quickly love to introduce you to all the listeners. Dear listeners, Jason is a men's embodiment coach, group facilitator, and evolutionary guide who helps men get out of their heads and into. Into their real authentic selves. So a Certified no more Mr. Nice Guy Coach. Jason has trained with the legends like John Weinland, Dr. Robert Glover and Clan Weber, and he's here to show us why every man needs a men's group and what happens when let go of outdated models of masculinity. So, dear listeners, if you have ever felt like you are carrying the weight of the world alone, or maybe you are, you have a question. What it really means to be a man in today's world, then this episode is for you. I'll not take much of your time, dear listeners. Let's get into it. Welcome to the show again, Jason.

Jason Lange: Yeah, so excited. Thank you for having me. It's such an important topic and glad to know there's spaces like yours that are really opening up the conversation.

Host: Amazing, amazing. So, Jason, like, for the listeners who have never experienced one, what exactly is a men's group? Like, what happens in that space?

Jason Lange: Yeah, I always laugh at this because, you know, we often in the growth world, we talk about meditation and it's like you could ask someone, hey, do you meditate? And they're like, yeah. And you're like, well, what kind? Because there's like lots of different variations and the same is actually true with men's groups. That a men's group's a pretty broad topic, but it can cover a lot of different things. Some groups are recovery groups from like alcohol and addiction. Some groups are more support based of just challenges in life. Some are accountability, some are practice, some I lead are shadow work. So there's a lot of manifestations, but the, the, the kind of one I'm here to talk about is a little bit of all of those things. And essentially all it is is it's a Group of guys that get together semi regularly to talk about what's most important and deep and valuable in their lives and what might be getting in the way. And how I sometimes describe this is by default, you know, a lot of us men, we tend to relate through what I call triangulation. So there's me and there's you. And we build connection with each other by having our attention on some third thing, a sports game, an activity. Our attention is literally, we're both looking over there, maybe sitting side by side or whatever, and then we get to feel connected with each other. And there's a total time and place for that. It's a great way for men to bond. But what it misses and where it starts to play into some of the crises that a lot of men are in right now is our attention's not on each other. And so many men can have this experience of, oh, I went out with my buddies, or I hung out with my friends, and yet my wife's about to leave me, or I have this huge health crisis or I'm losing my job, and we didn't even talk about that. So I spent all this time with other men, but I still feel isolated and alone. So a men's group, just the most simple kind of description of this is what happens as men when we turn our attention on each other. So we're going to be in presence with each other, often literally in the shape of a circle, and we're going to talk and reveal what's going on in my life. Where am I thriving, where am I in pain, what am I wanting, what am I trying to move towards? And what do I know is in the way, and what do I not even know is in the way, often starts to come to us through the guidance of other men. And two really important things that often show up in groups is one is it's a place for loving feedback. So loving feedback is. I kind of call it the spinach in the teeth moment, right? You're going through your day. Finally someone's like, hey, do you realize you have a big piece of spinach in your teeth? And you're like, oh, I feel a little embarrassed. I can't believe I've been walking around like that all day. Thank you for telling me. I wish everyone else had told me. Loving feedback is when people reflect to us what they're really seeing. Not out of shame, but. But out of care and concern of, hey, you say you want to be doing this thing, but I see you showing up in this other way. And the other big thing then is men's groups can help us become more present and actually connected to what we're feeling in our bodies. As men, we tend to very easily float up into our head, into thoughts and into rumination, and can talk a lot about our experience, but not necessarily be connected to the emotions underneath. And when we're not connecting to those emotions, they tend to cause a lot of strife and harm in our lives because we don't know what to do with them. And so a men's group becomes a place where we get to slow down, become really present to what we're actually experiencing and start to let go of a lot of the tension and burden so many of us carry as men.

Host: Yes, exactly. I totally. I totally understand and agree as well. And so if I ask, like, what surprised you most when you joined your first men's group?

Jason Lange: Yeah, I had just never experienced connection with other men like that. And what I mean is a. Both the level of presence of other men of like, wow, they're really here and they're really paying attention. And then the other thing that shocked me was, and I see this time and time again in groups, I lead. For a lot of us men, there's something we hold inside some kind of often shame, or we feel like we're less than, or things we're not proud of, and we hold it really tight because our fear is, if anyone ever knew that about me, they would reject me, judge me, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So many guys will walk around carrying this stuff inside. And what shocked me about groups is what happens when we let it out. And more often than not, it's met with love. And not only that, but other men are like, oh, I've had that experience, or I've done that. And suddenly that shame we thought separated us from people, in my experience, becomes the very thing that connects us to other men. And our whole bodies, our whole nervous systems tend to relax, and we can start to show up in our lives more in the ways we want.

Host: Exactly. Wow. What a lovely thing. Yeah, definitely. And I mean, you know, like, I think a lot of guys imagine a men's group as either a super intense or maybe even bit awkward, like, kind. Kind of like sitting in a circle and sharing feelings. Oh, yes, this happened. But there's so much depth, I'd say. I mean, I definitely feel that. But it's also interesting, like, how many men don't realize the power of simply being witnessed in their struggles without the judgment. So, yes, that I really believe yeah, yeah.

Jason Lange: It's very transformative for men often just to have a place to bring their pain. I think this is where a lot of men feel stuck right now in the world is they feel like, where am I allowed to feel and bring my pain in? Oftentimes that's just as caused by other men who we all buy into this culture of, oh, no, vulnerability, sadness, grief, whatever, those are weak and they make you less than a man. So all and every man is walking around with this pain inside and doesn't know what to do with it. When we come to a healthy group and we're able to bring it forward, it could be really transformative just in and of itself. Not even with all the other things groups can do in terms of connection, accountability, deepening our presence. But it's just like, wow, I had somewhere to share and bring this forward where I'm not judged, I'm not shamed. And the second I do that, oftentimes this is one of the things I see so often in groups. We get to reclaim a lot of our life force and vitality starts to flow through us and we get to feel more alive rather than constricted and tightened up.

Host: Exactly. Wow. And like you said that men's groups changed your life day to day. So if you can unpack that, I mean, what actually shift, what shifts did you start noticing? Like either ways, like emotionally, mentally, physically.

Jason Lange: Or emotionally, it was, again, it's having a place to bring my hurt, upset, stress or pain and not having to hold it. So knowing there's somewhere I can bring that is a huge relief in the day to day. For one, like we talked about, number two is like I said, groups often give feedback. And it's through being in men's groups that I have gotten clearer about the direction of my life and what I want. And it's through the connection to the group, I'm then able to take more and more bold steps towards that. And if I try something and it doesn't work, it's not the end of the world because my group's there to support me. So I end up taking more risks in life, which lo and behold, we take more risks, we tend to get more rewards, so we're not playing it as safe. And then there's just a lot of camaraderie. What I have found in men's group is the deeper I go with the most important men in my life, and this is an interesting thing, the more I frankly don't care what other people think about me because other people in the world, let's say they don't really know me. They can have a judgment of me from the outside, but the guys in my group who I've revealed my. My. My innermost self to, they know me intimately. So I do deeply care about their feedback. If I do something and they're like, hey, whoa. Want to point this out? I will listen to them because they're not judging me based on my outside, they're judging me based on my inside in the intimacy we've cultivated. And again, what that does, I've seen for men is it frees men up from letting go of that constant game of comparison and wondering what other people are thinking about them. So it brings us both connection and what I've experienced in my own life is a lot more power day to day. Because suddenly it's like I've got this team of guys who have my best interest in heart at heart, and they will let me know if they see me straying off course or they'll quite literally sometimes hold me if I can't hold myself. And with that, as I've been teaching lately, it's not even that we become more resilient. We go beyond that to what I call antifragile, where the stresses of life actually make me stronger as a man because my group is. Helps me take that and turn it into growth.

Host: Yeah, exactly. Lovely. And do you think that these shifts are accessible to every man no matter where they are starting from?

Jason Lange: Absolutely. I would say one of the reasons I'm so fervent about groups now is I've tried a lot of things in the world of growth and development. Plant medicines, coaching, somatic therapies, and they're all useful. But it's being part of a men's group, an actual community I meet with over time has been the most transformative thing for me because, you know, going. I lead workshops. We've all probably been to workshops. It's easy to go to a workshop and have a huge opening or awakening or some amazing state experience. But the biggest challenge in life is always what happens when you go home and it's next Monday morning and your kids are screaming at you, you're late for work, and all of that life comes rushing back in. And that is where a group makes the biggest difference. Because it's like a lifeline in the day to day that forces us to integrate and really live our changes in an embodied way.

Host: Yeah, what a lovely way of saying. I mean, I really love that. I mean, I really love that. I mean, because you Mentioned the body too as well, because we often think that the mental health is all in the head, but it actually affects. And also it tells the truth about the body as well. So I guess we often forget about the body. So it's really fascinating how embodiment can open the door to the emotional freedom. So that's really good.

Jason Lange: Yeah. And again, men's groups can help us get more connected to our body. And one thing I say to guys who are like, ah, you know, I don't know, embodiment, feelings, whatever is, they have done research, right. And we have a bundle of nerves that go down the center of our body called the vagal nerve a lot of people have heard of. And it's basically the information superhighway between our body and our brain connects the two. Here's the wild thing they've discovered. Only 20% of the bandwidth of that channel is brain to body. 80% of it is body to brain. So if we're not connected to our bodies as men, we are losing out on 80% of the given information available to us in every given moment, which means we're going to make less effective decisions in the world. When we get our body online, it's actually like we have a more sensitive antenna. And people have done lots of research around intuition and our gut instinct. This stuff is real. So when we get more into our body, we actually become better leaders as men. We become more effective in our jobs, in our relationships, in our parenting, in our. Even in our sports and things as well. So it has a huge payoff for men.

Host: Very true. Lovely. And like, you talk a lot about breaking the lone wolf mentality, so. Lone wolf. So why do you think that image of the self reliant, stoic man has held on for so long? I mean, what's the cost? I mean, if I can show you.

Jason Lange: Yeah. Well, it is a certain type of romantic ideal I think men have of, oh, I don't need anybody and I'll never have to be vulnerable. And part of that comes from, you know, most of our cultural definitions of masculinity really just kind of translate to be invulnerable. You're masculine if you're invulnerable and never feel or show pain or need anything. But I mean, here's the rub of it. In the actual world, the literal lone wolf is the one that was kicked out of the pack. And those wolves do not live as long. They will die sooner without the tribe around them, without that pack of wolves. And it's the same with Men, I was reading some research recently. Men who strongly identify with traditional stoic and masculine ideas, this kind of tough guy stuff, they are doubly at risk for committing suicide. Because that isolation hurts. It really hurts men. Because then we bottle it up and it gets too much and a lot of men just choose to exit. And this stuff has huge physical costs on us. Right. Feeling isolated or alone, it's just as dangerous as smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. That is the impact it has on our, our hearts and our well being. And we're far more likely to, to die early, essentially, when, when we're not part of a collective or a group. When we are part of our collective or a group, all of our biometrics get better. We as humans, we are mammals and we are wired for socialization. And most men think, well, if I need help or show weakness, that makes me less of a man. And part of the, the story I'm trying to tell is no, the most effective men in the world actually surround themselves with trustable, kind hearted men who can give them support when they need it and accountability when they need it. And we can actually go farther in the things we want to do. It's not going to make you weaker, it will make you stronger, literally in terms of your lifespan. And what I've seen now, having worked with hundreds of men, is you'll get more of the things you want in life when you have a team of men behind you.

Host: Exactly. And, and also like you have worked with so many different men. So what's the one biggest myth you hear about masculinity in your coaching work?

Host: And.

Jason Lange: And it's because we've been taught the wrong things as men. And so this idea that you'll be free once you get X, Y or Z, that's one of the biggest myths I have to burst with men. It's like, no, you have to start cultivating that in your life right now. And other men can support you in that.

Host: That's a very strong and detailed point, I would say. I mean, that's really powerful because we are living in a time of huge cultural shifts, and sometimes it feels like men are stuck between old scripts and a blank page. And I think, like. Like hearing these truths from someone like you, it really helps normalize the comfort, the discomfort of the growth, I'd say. Yeah. And also, this might sound contradictory, but it's not. But some critics say that men's groups can become a kind of echo chambers or even reinforce unhealthy behaviors, if not guided. Well, so what's your take on that?

Jason Lange: Sure. I mean, any group, I would say, can. Can go awry. It depends on who's in the group and what the intention of the group is. But a good group, the types of groups I'm involved in, that I create for other men, not everybody believes the same things, which I think is really good, particularly in this day and time in the world. It's a way to cut underneath the surface, so to speak, and get connected at a human level. But a good group, what it's going to do for a man is make him more available in life, more available to connect with people, more open, more. More in touch with himself and his capacities to set boundaries. So, yeah, there's some groups out there that are going to be teaching less than ideal things that may actually harm men in the long term. But there's plenty of groups out there that are not. That are about how do we create healthy men who can participate in the world, aren't ashamed of their masculinity or madness, but who also want to be involved and be able to help and serve in the ways that most men are dying to do deep down inside.

Host: Exactly. Very true. And like, how do you ensure that the spaces you hold stay grounded in real growth, not just venting or kind of ventilating? I mean, validating the stuck patterns.

Jason Lange: Yeah, we have. All groups I lead have pretty strong agreements, which are literally the framework of how we're going to relate to each other, which often includes being able to give each other feedback and taking things deeper. So, hey, you know, you've been complaining for three minutes about, you know, da, da, da, da, da, da, what do you really want? Right. So this is where depth comes into a group, where we're always orienting to what's the deepest, most important thing we could have our attention on right now. And a lot of guys by default will float up to reporting and complaining about our lives in our heads. And so the practice is to keep calling each other continually. Down into depth. Down into depth. Okay, that's not working for you. What are you really feeling? What are you really wanting? What boundaries do you need to set in your life? What are the choices do you need to make? How can we help you move the ball forward? And so a good men's group will always be generating some momentum for the men in it. Meaning if you're meeting in a group and everybody feels stagnant and the same a year later, you guys, the men aren't playing full out and being risky enough with their feedback and their truths with each other.

Host: Wow, that's amazing. Yep. So, like, if you had a magic. So different. So if you had a magic, magic wand and could shift one thing about how society views men's emotional health, then what would it be?

Jason Lange: Yeah, it would be that men are actually quite intuitive and sensitive too. We just often have it trained out of ourselves when we're young. And having access to that does not make us weak. It actually makes us stronger. So when we are victims to our emotions, we have less control in the world. And we see this all the time with men who explode into rage or collapse into shame. And what I'm saying is, no, we can take responsibility, build a deep relationship with our inner world. And when we do, the men are very sensitive, very in tuned when we're given the right tools for learning how to work with these parts of ourselves and then lo and behold, we get to be more present in our lives. So a lot of guys and, you know, a lot of women just have these stories that, you know, men aren't sensitive, but we are. We're just often shamed for it. And when we bring it online, what I have seen and, and a lot of guys don't necessarily believe this till they feel it and see it is it makes us more powerful.

Host: Wow, that's really amazing. I mean, what a rich and powerful conversation. Jason, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, your heart, your mission with us today and for all who are listening, especially men. Whether you have been curious about men's work or this is the first time you are hearing about it, I hope that this episode sparks something in you. And if you are ready to explore deeper, check out Jason's work and it could be the step that changes everything. I'll put all the links into the show. Notes, dear listeners, for your easy reference. And with this hope, thank you so much for tuning into Mind Over Masculinity. Let's keep breaking down the walls and building something stronger and together. So thank you so much, Sam.