99: A power couple talks about power in their relationship (ft. Jason & Violet Lange) | Dear Men

Jason Lange: So I just very clearly got still and then internally was just like, I'm ready, meet me. That was my word. I was just like, I'm ready, meet me. Like demanding to the, to the feminine, I'm ready, so come and meet me. Which was both a call out, you know, for my partner, who I then met a few months later. And crazily enough, like the second I broadcast that message out, which I will say at that moment in my life, was the most masculine, agentic, outward directed energy.

Melanie Curtin: Hey guys, welcome to the month of April and our new format for the podcast. So I just wanted to remind you that this new format involves you. So I am pushing a survey to my big sexy data set. If you are not yet a member, I would love for you to email [email protected] and just say, add me. This month's theme is around owning your power. So I'm going to push a survey and if you answer it by mid month, you will be eligible to be on the listener panel at the end of the month. So you'll fill out the survey. You can either choose to remain totally anonymous or if you check a box, you can say yes. I would be interested in being on the podcast to talk about this and I will be inviting people by the third week of April and then recording the episode to drop on the last week of April. This is going to be the format moving forward, so we'll have a theme of every month. This month's theme is owning your power. And May will be a different theme, et cetera, and they will all involve you. So please do get involved. Just email [email protected] and say, add me, me. All right, guys, welcome back to another episode. Dear men, I'm really excited about this one because this is one of the first episodes that we're doing with a conscious couple and I'm thrilled to have Jason and Violet here. In addition to being a couple that I look up to, they're also my very dear friends. So thanks for being on the podcast, guys. Thank you. So this month's theme is all about owning your power as a man. And Jason, you've kind of been through being single and learning how to own your power and now being in a relationship and then married and now having a baby. So you really gone through a whole transformation there in your life and I would love to hear from you. And then Violet, you can jump in anytime about your journey, especially like maybe if you could briefly talk about your journey, owning your powers as a single man and then what that was like moving into relationship. And then I have follow ups.

Jason Lange: Sure. So as a single man, you know, initially, particularly for those that have listened to me on this podcast before, when it came to dating, I felt I didn't have any power. You know, I was pretty lost, pretty confused, pretty anxious, pretty nervous. And that started to shift, you know, in my mid to late twenties when I started doing my work, started doing my inner work. And for me in particular, I think a lot of my journey around, you know, owning my power, so to speak, has just been as much of a practice about asking for what I want and identifying what I want and setting boundaries when needed, I would say. And that's been a total journey from, you know, as a single man to in some ways now more than ever with a kid and a wife and a dog, have to continually practice asking for what I need or learning to set boundaries, to resource myself. And I think that, you know, for me, instrumental in the whole journey of taking my power back, as I've spoken about before as well, has just been being around other men, particularly in men's group, and getting to see how they do relationship and give me feedback on how I'm doing relationship and starting to get, you know, kind of a path to walk through a lot of those interactions I've had, particularly in that work. And, you know, this is all stuff I still work on. Like, I think anyone, just because you get into a great relationship doesn't mean there's not still more growth to do. So we're constantly negotiating, you know, power and boundaries and me still having to practice and sometimes her having to evoke, you know, what do you want? What do you need?

Melanie Curtin: I'm really glad you spoke to that. I think two things I just want to pull out from what you said. One is getting into tribe, getting into community, being around other conscious men is part of you be able to expand and grow and step into your power. And I'm imagining that part of what that means is how do I. How do I be a conscious man in the world without being a douche? Like, what does that look like? To be a good man who has a backbone and can stand for what he wants and is not the toxic masculine because there's not that many role models. So I, yeah, that's one thing that I heard really loudly and then the other was just this sort of like, it's not like, oh, poof, one day you own your power and now it's, you know what I mean? Like done. Like you're still in the. In the growth part of, like, how do I identify what I want? Like, how do I feel into what I want and need as a man? And then how do I speak, you know, to that in relationship and kind of the negotiation and relationship.

Jason Lange: I think that's exactly. It's a. And it's. It's a. It's a practice. Right. Moment to moment and person to person and situation to situation. So there's some areas in my life that I'm, you know, much more capable of owning my power now and other areas where it's still much more of an edge. And sometimes that changes day to day, you know, whether it's standing up for myself with a client and, you know, getting the value that I think I deliver in terms of, you know, financial exchange or my time or. Yeah. Asking for something I need in intimacy. So it really is something that I don't think. It's like you just get there and you're done. You know, it's a muscle that you have to continually work out. And sometimes it works better in some situations than others. And then. Yeah, the other thing I think you clued into that has really been a big part of my journey and relates to so much of the work that you and I do with men, is that, you know, to really be able to own our power, what that really means at its root, before anything else, is I have to know what I want. Like, I have to know what I want. I actually have to be in tune with my body and my heart's desires and what feels good and what doesn't. And, you know, part of my challenge in my 20s for sure. And then that I've continued to just as much as I can over time, shed layers around was kind of, you know, just the numbness that a lot of us men have about what we're feeling and our inability to identify that, particularly in the moment. You know, sometimes it's like a day later, a week later, oh, my God, I totally X, Y or Z. But the practice of actually being able to tap into that and tune into that more in the moment and, you know, know what I'm feeling. And then based on what I'm feeling, I can start to know what I want. And when I know what I want, then I can ask for it. But if I can't do that, the whole thing, you know, just kind of collapses even before then.

Melanie Curtin: Yeah. And I think this sort of actually speaks to an experience that you've shared. I'm wondering if you would be willing to share around but just before you met Violet, you did a plant medicine journey, and something happened that around what you wanted. Can you share that? Because to me, that always felt very much like you and your power. When you described that story, I was like, oh, wow, that was a dude in his power in that moment.

Jason Lange: Yeah, that's actually a great example, I think, of this important shift that owning that leads to owning our power, so to speak. And that was, you know, before I met Violet, I had been single and on the dating scene for 11 or 12 months or so, and I had been very much chasing women, like, really, really wanting to date and chasing after women, some of whom just weren't interested in me back. And in my old kind of way, you know, I would get overly attached, and I'd be putting my attention on women who just weren't choosing me, you know, weren't choosing me back. And I was doing some plant medicine that fall and got pretty deep into a very challenging night and had a pretty intense experience where the medicine wasn't working for me. And the medicine I was doing tends to have kind of a feminine essence, so they call it grandmother or her. And when it wasn't working, I was getting very upset. Like, everyone else was going on these amazing journeys, and I was just kind of stuck, stone cold sober and really pissed off that I'd spent the money. And I was trying so hard to do my work, and then nothing was happening. And so then I started to have this super intense experience, which, you know, that kind of medicine often does, where it'll in some ways intensify the experiences you're having out in the world, but just kind of turn up the volume on them in short, powerful ways. And so what started happening for me that night was I started getting really whiny. Like, you know, obviously this was an internal journey, but I was, like, really whining. I was like, it's not, you know, where are you? Which was both a call to the medicine and to the kind of feminine of like, I'm here. I'm doing my work. I've tried so hard, and it's working for everyone else, and it's not working for me. And I was kind of like, you know, a whiny, little, fussy, mad baby boy, I guess you could say. It's kind of. Kind of where I went that night. But then I had a very, very, very powerful moment, which is kind of the gift of the medicine, meaning it can activate, you know, some energies that are kind of intense for us or less conscious for us. But then Also help us see them in real time. And so that happened, I was like, wow, I am like, I'm really whining. I'm like, really kind of complaining and whining and just like. Like a fussy little boy. And was really kind of rooted in this just energy of being a victim. Like, it's not. It's not happening for me. It's not fair, yada, yada, yada. And there was a moment where I caught that and, you know, got very still, very calm in an internal kind of way and just noticed that. And then that kind of more like whiny, victimy, fussy frustration became kind of a clearer fire anger. And I mean this in the best way. Like, anger in the sense of, like, demanding wholeness. And so I just very clearly got still and then internally was just like, I'm ready. Meet me. That was my word. I was just like, I'm ready. Meet me. Like, demanding to the. To the feminine, I'm ready, so come and meet me. Which was both a call out, you know, for my partner, who I then met a few months later. And crazily enough, like, the second I broadcast that message out, which I will say at that moment in my life, was the most masculine, agentic, outward directed energy I think I've ever cohered in one moment. The medicine totally hit within seconds after that, while everyone else was finishing their ceremony. And I went on this totally, very challenging, very epic journey that night that finally came when I kind of, like, claimed it and called for it, like, I'm ready and meet me.

Melanie Curtin: So you guys can't see this, but I have Jason and Violet on video. And when he said that, she totally glowed. Like, she got all, like, radiant and smiley and it was really cute. So I just had to share. Like, that is so, yeah, just magnificent every time you tell that story. I love that story. Like, and the simplicity of it and the power, which is not power over or dominating, but it's clear and direct. It's exactly what you said of, I want this. I want this. Meet me.

Jason Lange: Absolutely. And, you know, in a lot of the language you and I use with guys, it's a. It's a clear expression of want and it's an invitation, right? It's like, meet me. I was telling the universe, telling the great feminine telling of the divine, like, meet me. I'm ready. And, you know, for me, part of what I think gelled for me in that moment was finally in an embrace and embracing and even a deeper level, I think, of self acceptance and, like, self Pride of, like, I've done a lot of work. I'm ready, Like, I'm ready for this. I'm ready to claim it. I'm ready to own it. Uh, I'm a man who is ready for his partner. I've. I've, like, put in the time, and I think that's such an important step to any kind of, you know, taking your power back or claiming your power is you have to fully claim yourself and acknowledge, you know, your worth, your goodness, your wholeness in the process.

Melanie Curtin: Yeah. And I'm wondering, Violet, can you. Yeah. Speak a little bit to your experience of Jason when you met in terms of him being in his power? Absolutely. Because I was realizing as he was telling that story that that was a direct impact to the night that we met. We were having this epic conversation, at least from my perspective. And he had approached me at an event. I hadn't noticed him before during the event, but afterwards he came up and started talking with me. And there's a backstory to that that I won't get into right now, but we were really connecting. And everyone decided after the event to go to a bar next door and have a drink. And so I was assuming that he was going to come have a drink with everyone, and we were going to continue this amazing conversation where I just felt all these sparks flying. Physically, yes, but really spiritually and emotionally and mentally and otherwise. And he goes, oh, no. It's like , and I haven't meditated yet today. I was like, what, you're going to turn down getting a drink with me? I mean, it sounds egotistical, but I was, like, slightly offended. But I was also very turned on because I've been asking the universe for a man with integrity, you know, someone who had a daily practice, someone who was committed to himself, someone who had. Yeah, just that deep line of truth and steadiness in this life. So when he said, It's pm and I have to go meditate, that was him saying, no, this is me and my power, and this is what's important to me. And. And it made me like him and want him even more. Aw, you guys. That's really cute. Okay, so, all right, so now you are dating, right. And I'm wondering, like, you. You guys had a lot of friction at the beginning, and I feel like there was a lot of. I feel like there's a way that both of you are really great at holding your own, like, staying in your own power and not caving to, you know, what the other person Wanted, but also making room for what the other person wanted. Does that make sense? So, like, not like, I'm gonna control you, but, like, I'm standing for what I want, and I recognize that it's not what you want, and I still want to be in connection with you. Can you guys talk about that a little bit? Because I think that's very, I don't know, revealing of how two people can relate when it's like we don't have to both want exactly the same thing and we can still stay connected.

Jason Lange: Yeah, I think it's one of the important skills and things I noticed early in our relationship that differentiated it for me was our ability to stay connected even when we had differences, to hold differences together in connection. And so, yeah, you know, one of our first pieces of friction was a pacing thing. It was really about, you know, where we were going and how fast we were going there. And, you know, like any good feminine partner who knew what she wanted, she was ready to go kind of pedal to the metal. And I had been in another long term relationship just out of that about a year. And, you know, I was a little more hesitant. I was a little more wanting to kind of slow things down and not sure I wanted to dive right back into something yet. And she.

Melanie Curtin: I was like, merge with me, merge with me, merge with me.

Jason Lange: And so there was, you know, I kind of had to stand in what I was available for early on and kind of communicate that. And this was, like, quite early on. This was our. Our second date, which was kind of our epic date, as we call it, where we got raw and real very fast, using some of the, you know, connection games and just modalities that she and I had both learned in our own independent growth paths about. You know, we knew there was a real connection. We were both in our mid-30s, so, you know, we knew ourselves pretty well. So I think part of the magic was recognizing. Recognizing that the other person had something we knew we wanted, like in a partner. And that that was real, and that connection was real. And then there was just some actual pacing issues up front about, you know, what I was available for and what she was available for that we had to have some pretty challenging conversations about. And that felt like they didn't have any. There was going to be no way to resolve them. I think that was the first thing of, like, well, I want this. Here's what I'm available for. For me, I'm like, not ready to dive into something right away yet. I think I still want to date other People. And she was more like, what are you fucking talking about? Let's do this. Let's get married and have babies.

Melanie Curtin: Well, it wasn't quite, I think, like that. I mean, part of it was that, if you're okay with me saying it, you know, I had just gone on a date before the date with Jason, not that same day, but, like, a few days prior with someone who was polyamorous. And the night before that date, had actually slept with one of my friends and was just, like, casually telling me about it. It's like, what. It was kind of traumatic. So one of the questions I asked Jason on our second date was, you know, how do you feel about polyamory? And he was like, yeah, I can see myself doing that at some point. Like, he didn't have a lot of charge around it. But I came in having a lot of charge around it. So, you know, I was really worried about getting my heart involved with someone that maybe wanted something that felt very different structurally than what I felt safe with and what I wanted. And so there was the pacing that I wanted to be exclusive much, much sooner. And then there was also this kind of structural view of relationship that we had some different viewpoints on. So we both really had to stay in our power with what we wanted. But I think one thing I'm proud of is that we both focused on what we wanted instead of focusing on, like, something wrong with the other or trying to attack. I never felt attacked. Hopefully Jason didn't feel attacked. And even that epic date night, both of us made the choice to stay in connection, which I think was giving each other power. We could have both been like, well, I'm in my power, and this isn't working for me, so bye. But we were like, okay, well, can we both be in our power and give power to each other, too, by giving each other our vulnerability or whatever else was going on? And it was. Yeah, it was kind of intense because the first maybe two hours of the date, we had just such a strong connection. And then this polyamory thing came up, and I felt my body shutting down. And instead of just saying, I'm going home, I was like, well, I'm just going to do something that I've learned to do, which is voice how I'm feeling, which later come to find out is just kind of noticing an authentic relating terminology. So I was just sharing all the feelings as they came up. You know, embarrassment, fear, shame, overwhelm it. Excitement. And we were holding hands in his truck, and he was driving as I was Saying this. And then later in the night, he was like, I don't want you to go, and I want you to stay. And I think I said, like, yeah, as long as there's no. Nothing really sexual or physical. So we literally just held each other all night without a single kiss. We just spooned. And I think I laid on top of him. And there's another layer to the story where maybe Jason couldn't explain where he asked that he wanted to. Like, he's like, I want to stay in the bed with you. Do you remember that?

Jason Lange: Oh, I think I may have even shared this on the podcast before, but very specifically that night. And I would say this is. This is a D mark point in terms of kind of my previous, more nice guy tendencies. And I would say kind of being out of my power and more just kind of directly asking for what I wanted. And that was, you know, she was living pretty far away at the time, like an hour away. And we had this big, epic date. We were up super late. And, you know, we are both a little emotionally frayed, I would say, at the end of the night. And I was like, okay, that doesn't feel good to have you drive home. You know, I think, you know, I would love for you to stay the night. You could stay here. And I immediately went into the previous routine of, right, I want to make you want her to feel safe, don't want to feel threatened. So I'll sleep downstairs on the couch. You can sleep on my bed. And then, so I'm literally about to get ready to do that. And then, hey, turns out I had been doing some work, had been meditating and working out and doing physical practice to get in my body. I caught it. And I caught myself where I was like, no, actually, you know, I want to stay with her. I want to stay with her in the bed. Like, I want physical contact between us tonight. Not sexual, but, like, physical, just contact. Because we had opened up a lot, and I could tell I wanted to be regulated and, like, emotionally and nervous system wise. And I imagine she might too. Like, it might feel good for us to kind of soothe each other in that way. So before I walked out of the room, you know, I just kind of. I stopped and I kind of interrupted. I was like, you know, actually, I want to stay in the. I want to stay up here with you in the bed. Like, we don't have to have sex. We don't have to do anything. Just. Just lie together. In fact, I think I said, like, we shouldn't have sex. Or anything. And that was a really important moment because, you know, I can definitely feel a different version of that where I would have gone downstairs and slept on the couch and she would have stayed upstairs, and it would have actually created a lot of distance to us, between us in a very emotional, kind of vulnerable place where we were both pretty raw. And the next morning, there kind of would. You know, I just don't know how that would have gone. And then, particularly after that morning, where things would have gone from there. But, you know, that was, I think, one of those strong instances we first got to experience of a couple. And the beauty of when couplehood is working well is we can. Can have differences of perspective or opinion or of wants and not be in total agreement and maybe both be stressed out in our own ways and use the connection to kind of resource ourselves and come together.

Melanie Curtin: And I got a chance to trust Jason because he really meant that boundary. Like, we. I had my clothes on the whole time. We did not even peck. Like it was nothing, you know, So I got to trust that he would be clean with. When he said he wanted something and he said these were his boundaries around it, that that's really, truly what he was going to show up as. There was nothing unclean, like, or fuzzy about it. Yeah. And he led. Like, you really, like, when I hear that story, what I hear is you. Like you said, I thought it was interesting. You said, out of my power, out of my body. And I thought that was really compelling as a statement. Like, when a man is in his power, he's in his body. And you listened to that. You listened to it. You're like, my body wants to stay here. I want to stay here with you tonight. That's what I want. This is what I think should happen. How do you feel about that? You know, you led and that, you know, leading, like, when the masculine leads, I think it generates polarity, and that doesn't necessarily need to be sexual polarity. But, you know, what you just pointed to, Violet, was that you got to trust him. You got to trust his lead, which you can't trust a man's lead unless he's leading.

Jason Lange: Yeah, exactly.

Melanie Curtin: He's got a lead for you to trust his lead. And. Yeah, so, okay, so now you're dating, you've got some friction. You kind of move past the friction into monogamy. Can you touch on that briefly, Jason, in terms of your, like, the turning point there and then what it was like, you know, at Burning Man.

Jason Lange: Yeah. I mean, I think we officially became a couple By March, maybe three, four months after we met with kind of a month gap because of Christmas holidays and whatnot. But I think what really started to shift that was our connection just kept deepening. For one, The more, you know, I got to know her and you know, in a lot of ways got to see her in her power of, you know, being a woman who had interests and loves and her own growth and practices and was a teacher just made it feel more and more special for one, and an awareness and acknowledgement of that. And then, you know, one thing I can say is that part of, I think what started to shift and this is more of the kind of feminine side of practice. But like she said, it was challenging at first before we moved into that official monogamy and we did, I think, work pretty hard to not make each other's feelings wrong. That, you know, she didn't necessarily like where I was coming from and I certainly didn't like that it was hurting her and. But I didn't really try to convince her that you need to feel otherwise. But she just kept revealing, you know, revealing her feelings very, very much the whole time about, you know, how vulnerable it was to keep opening her heart to me like that and not know where it was really going. Just a deep, deep level of trust. And, you know, a woman, the feminine opening, entrusting the masculine is pretty powerful way to get into our hearts. You know, it's a two way street. Like we lead, but then there's a huge amount of vulnerability on your side to open and follow even when you don't necessarily know where it's going. And the willingness to do that, you know, just deepened my attraction even more. So yeah, we quickly, well, not quickly, but, you know, four months started officially dating and then over those, let's see. I think our next kind of two big things were going to festivals together. So we first we went to one out here in LA or in California called Lightning in a Bottle. And that was another example of me kind of inviting her on an adventure that she initially was actually a little resistant to. But you know, I was like, I want this and I want to take you. I want us to go together. I remember saying that. And I think that was before I'd asked her that, before we were officially dating. So that felt pretty vulnerable for her. But on that, you know, amazing weekend, I was totally in my power because I had been to the festival before. I knew what I wanted. I knew where, you know, the things I like to do, those types of experiences which we then kind of tripled down on by going to Burning man together five months later, maybe, I think also have a pretty strong level of polarity in them, depending on the context in which you're going. But again, it was another thing where I had gone before. And so I kind of did all the logistics. Here's what we need, the gear, how we're going to get there, how we're going to pack the car, what I'm going to build. We're going to this camp full of my community and friends. And, you know, she just got to, again, take it in both festivals, trust me, and come along. But I was totally in my power because these were things I loved doing. I just loved going to these festivals. I had so much fun there. I knew what I liked doing there. I was with friends I already had community with. And I think just that itself was probably, you know, a pretty high example of me just being in the power in the sense that I was also. I was just in my passion. Right. I was like in the things I love doing, which I'd be curious to hear if that's how it landed for her. But I. I imagine for, you know, that. That there's often a correlation that a man who's, like, deeply entrenched in something he's passionate about is partially experienced. It's kind of like being in his power. That land for you?

Melanie Curtin: Yes, definitely. Because I feel like if it's a false sense of power, like a societal power, like status or job or something, but the person doesn't like it. It's. My body registers that as disgusting. Like it's not trustable. It's just power for power sake versus the power because you're passionate about it. I think someone who's passionate about what they're up to is so sexy. And I definitely felt that when we were there both times. I felt his leadership, I felt his power. And I also felt his, like, fun, you know, I think sometimes my assumption is that sometimes men, it's hard for them to let down the burden that they carry and just have fun. And we had so much fun together. And I felt adored and really taken care of. And then this was Burning man number one. Is that right? Was this when it happened?

Jason Lange: This is where we got engaged.

Melanie Curtin: Okay. Yeah. Can you touch on that?

Jason Lange: Yeah. I mean, you know, like, I shared with Medicine Journey. Burning Man, I think, is a medicine journey in the sense that the experience of going there in itself will often, you know, be a hologram for whatever's happening in your life and intensify things to an extent. And so, you know, we had a wild, intense journey where we were driving in. And, you know, she carried some wounding in her heart about how we met and the fact that I wasn't ready to dive into monogamy right yet. And that kind of resurfaced as we were entering, entering Burning Man. And it was intense because, oh, my God, it was like, literally, you know, like, you've just swallowed the red pill and you're like, I don't know when I'm going to come back. We're crossing in. We're supposed to be there for seven days. And she's basically like, I want to get the fuck out of here. Let me out of the car.

Melanie Curtin: Well, I have my opinion about that.

Jason Lange: We got to navigate this. But so, you know, it started with kind of that again, like, just some wounding coming up on both of our sides. Some disagreements, some not necessarily safety. And yet over the course of the week, we just kept dialoguing and talking and revealing what we were each feeling, what was going on. And through it all, you know, she continued to trust me. She came on the journey with me. She, you know, allowed me to guide her through the experience of Burning man and with my friends. And the more she kind of started to open. We were hanging out one night in a small group with some friends and just had a very clear distillation of, like, what else am I looking for? It was honestly, like, what? Like this download of, you know, I think when we're dating, oftentimes, you know, we can hold on to this, like, oh, there might be someone or something better. We, like, have these lists. We may. It's just kind of this weird, weird thing. And I think this was the first time I, like, really felt into, like, what? There's nothing else on my list. Like, what else would I be looking for? Like, why wouldn't I commit? And then it just became so, so, so clear. Like, oh, yeah, I'm not looking for anything else. And though I had no expectation of getting engaged going into that event, I thought we were just going to have fun at Burning man and, you know, our relationship would continue to unfold over the next year or two. It just became so clear, like, oh, wow, she trusts me. We're able to navigate conflict. And, like, she has all the things I'm looking for. There's nothing else I'm looking for. And so it just became a super quick download for me. And, you know, within 30 seconds, I think of having this kind of crazy, like, no, you can't do that. Like, you gotta do, like, this whole dialogue that happened. And then I was like, oh, no, okay, I'm just gonna ask her. And so I asked her to marry me.

Melanie Curtin: Violet, what was your experience of that? That proposal? Yeah. And the navigation of that, you know, going in. Yes. So I feel like, for better or worse, as women, we have this sixth sense where if something is about to happen, we can kind of sense it before it happens. That's my experience with most women, that we have a bit of a premonition. And as we were kind of about to cross into the gates, into this amazing experience, I asked him a question about a mutual friend of ours, and I was like, oh, why did they get divorced? And it was something to do with their relationship had been closed and then open, and then one of them didn't want an open relationship anymore. So it's kind of back to this poly thing. And so the reason I felt triggered is because Jason had never really taken polyamory off the table. He had. We had become monogamous dating. But he had always said, well, you know, at some point in our relationship, if we need to open it, if that's the best thing for the relationship, then I'm going to advocate for that. And I. That just really freaked me out. I was like, so you're saying we could be married 10 years, and then all of a sudden you're going to be like, oh, it's time for us to be poly? Like, that just didn't feel good to me. And so I felt really triggered and really afraid of giving my heart to someone and then being betrayed and. And it just exacerbated by the fact that, ironically, the place we camped that that year, most of the people in our immediate camp were actually in open relationships. And I don't think Jason knew that, or even if he didn't think he thought it was going to be an issue, but it was like everything was in my face that, you know, here are a lot of his good friends who are in an open relationship. So I had a story. I had an assumption, oh, if his friends are like that, then clearly that's what he is going to want and that's what he's going to lead us to. And I just remember being heartbroken for a few days and feeling very triggered, and I don't even know why. I mean, I can't even. I can't remember now why it cut me so deeply, but I can feel those feelings. And then at one point, we were. I think it was Tuesday of Burning Man. I think this happened on Sunday, and it was either Tuesday, yeah, it was Tuesday that I was just crying most of the day and afraid of going deeper with him only to have my heart get broken. And he or I said, let's go to this dance workshop. So we just went to this dance workshop and I just cried through the whole thing. I just kept crying. And that released something. And he held me afterwards and held me that night. And it's often my heart enough to be able to just be more present during Burning Man. Then we had some pretty amazing experiences later in the week. So in my mind, I was still like, hey, I don't know if this is my person. I don't know how I'm going to feel when we get out of Burning man, but I want this to be a really amazing experience because I love him and we can navigate through these things, but, wow, I'm feeling really raw. But then by the time he asked me to marry him, we had both really chosen each other again and again. We just kept choosing each other, choosing to connect, choosing to stay present without abandoning ourselves and our emotions and our desires. And. And Jason wanted someone who could love him through any of his desires, including the desire for an open relationship. And I wanted to be someone who. With someone who loved me so much that they would maybe forego some desires that would be hurtful to me. And we found just this middle ground, which is that we didn't know what was going to happen. We can't live into the future. And that was a huge surrendering for me to recognize that that doomsday scenario may never come. And if it did come and it wasn't aligned with me, he wouldn't do it because he was only going to do that if it was for the best of our relationship. So I really had to trust that his desire would include my desire. And that was super edgy. But we got there and then when he asked me, I was so not expecting it. Not whatsoever. And it was all the more magical, probably because of that. We just had this amazing experience and my heart exploded with joy. And I just remember saying what? I was so surprised. What? And then, yes, yes, yes, of course, yes. And we just had so much fun and. Yeah, just so grateful that he was so in touch with his clarity and his commitment to following his clarity. Because I can't believe how quickly he asked once he had that download, which really gave me even more trust in him. Yeah. What I really like about that story is the staying sovereign in ourselves and also including the other person like that to me is that's the goal. Right? That's the game is it's an. And it's not I give up myself and just do what you want. And it's not. You have to do everything I want. I control you. But it's like, I'm over here. I've got my sovereignty, and I'm including you. Like, we're in this together, and we'll figure it out. We'll navigate it. Because I think that word navigate is a great verb here. When we don't know exactly where we're going, we don't know how the cliffs of the river are going to go. And I'm still sovereign and I'm still with you. And I'm still sovereign, and I'm still with you. And it unfolds because I think we're often trying to control things so that we don't get hurt. Yeah, I hear that a lot from conscious couples of like, we didn't know how it was going to go. We didn't know what's going to happen. We didn't, you know, we weren't following the white picket fence line of this and then this and then this, and then this was like, we have some friction and we're still here. We're still here. We're still here. I'm still here with you, and I'm still here with myself. I'm still here with myself. I'm still here with myself. Because I think, yeah, so many of us just were taught to give up our power when we were kids. And so a lot of, like, becoming a conscious adult is about reclaiming that. And I totally agree with you. And also not projecting our childhood fears onto our partner, because I had a fear of being manipulated or hurt or, like, betrayed. And I think Jason had a fear of being trapped in a loveless. Not trapped, but, you know, being in a marriage that didn't have love and didn't have connection, and he would be willing to do anything, including change the structure of the relationship in order to have love and connection, which the motivation behind that I can really respect and admire, even if the structure wasn't something that I was excited about. That's well said. Anything you want to add there, Jason?

Jason Lange: Just that. Yeah. I mean, you know, even in part of that week, like I said, how that kind of thing mirrors the outside. I think part of what helped us get there later in the week is we did take space. Like, on Tuesday, I went out with my men, and she went out with some of her girls, and that itself is A type of trust, right? And me going to be like, resource myself in my power again, kind of drop in with my guys, get clarity and for her to be with her women. And that's something that has deeply served both of us continuously. You know, I'm with men every Monday night and I make time for that. And that is a demand on our relationship, you know, particularly with a kid. Now, for me to go off and be with men, that's, you know, that's me claiming and owning something that totally impacts Violet and how we spend our time and resources and capacity. But I know that's something I need to be able to show up fully in our relationship. Like, I just, I would not make it without that time, like kind of going off, getting grounded with my guys, getting feedback. And so the ability to do that, I think has been one of our strengths as well. Of. And you know, I've been a pretty big proponent to that from the beginning. And just whenever I can encourage you, like, you know, it kind of sounds ridiculous when I say it, but, like, I want you to go be with your girlfriends and like, bitch and moan about me. Like, I actually want that. Like, you know, not in like a tearing each other down way, but like, I think there's something to that where we can both be resourced with trusted networks outside of each other that actually support our relationship in doing that. And that's something I've been just very adamant about for my own well being and for her is because I think there's ways you and her other girlfriends can just give her a type of energy that I don't.

Jason Lange: Yeah, I would say this ties into another piece that I think weaves in and out of our story and particularly related to me being in my power and not in that unironically or unsurprisingly for those that know what we're up to has a lot to do with when I was on purpose and when I wasn't. So meaning, like, how in alignment was I with doing work and really showing up in the world in a way that was meaningful to me? And so when we met, I was very on purpose in a lot of ways. I had, you know, one of the big shifts, I would say that happened just before I was meeting her, maybe a year or two before I was meeting her was I started leading shit. So I started, you know, instead of just kind of going to other people's stuff, I got involved in the communities I was most interested in and I started leading them. So I actually started, you know, helping to co create them and being the one at the front of the room, so to speak. And that's on purpose for me. Like, that feels good to me. I'm in my power when I do that. Like, I feel very on and I get good feedback and people tend to, you know, experience me in ways they enjoy when I actually do that. And so I was doing that when I met her and I was making a documentary when I met her. I had just written and directed and sold a short film. And so I was like, kind of on fire in a lot of ways when I met her. And so I was very in my power. I actually think, like, here's where I'm going. This is the kind of stuff I do and I love. And so that was, you know, in addition to the initial kind of just hit of polarity and intoxication from a new relationship. I think I had that going for me at the time. And then I kind of lost my way a little bit. You know, we got married and. And then shift, you know, moved into the same place with each other, which is a huge relationship. Shift, which kind of takes it away from just sexy dating time to, like, oh, now there's a lot of unsexy time with each other, right, where you have to, like, do work and take care of yourself and just be a human. So that stuff started to hit, and then I got a little fuzzy around my purpose again and kind of just fell into some panic around finances and doing the work that least engaged me but was the most stable. And so all that happens as after we get married, and then we're moving to the same house, and so we're spending a lot more time with each other. And then, unsurprisingly, totally, like, all of my kind of internalized behaviors of my nervous system from how I was raised and how I've learned to move through the world started to come out. And so, you know, we had a lot of friction, you know, definitely connected, but we had a lot of friction. I don't know, that first 18 months or so after we were married and times of being, you know, physically disconnected, times of being emotionally disconnected, times of getting in fights. I will say, you know, I'm an enneagram9, so I'm not much of a fighter. But we've had more fights than I've ever had in any other relationship. And I actually think that's a good thing, like, we're able, like I said, to kind of have that fire but stay connected. And so we were having fights, and I had never had fights before of, like, you know, yelling over the phone or one of us storming out and then having to come back. And it was pretty intense. But what I'll say is, in that time, I kept going to men's group. We realized, yeah, this is an ecology. I think that's a great word you put. And so we got some help. I went to one of my men's groups, and I asked, like, hey, does anyone know a good person that we could work with? Like, we're doing our best, but of course, we want to have the best available to our relationship. So that involves bringing in, you know, a neutral third party, so to speak. And so we found a great couples therapist who helped us, you know, identify and name things in our relationship and patterns that I wasn't seeing about myself and start to own, you know, the ways I was. I did often kind of withdraw into my head and emotionally disconnect and whatnot. I guess laced through all this, too, you know, was the wedding itself and planning for that, which was incredibly, somewhat easy and stressful at the same time. And, you know, I had to definitely hold my power around. I've had a very. I've had a lot of men in my life, let's just put it that way. So there were a lot of men I wanted to invite, and we had to kind of negotiate, you know, who the numbers and people I had to really hold firm with of, like, yeah, no, I want these brothers at my wedding. Like, I. Whatever it takes. Whatever it takes. And then, you know, her again, kind of just revealing the truth of, you know, how painful sometimes it was for her to be around me when I kind of lost track of, like, what was the plan and how was I going to get us there, you know, which we knew pretty early on from our relationship. We both wanted kids, and that was on the table, and so that was somewhere we were going sooner than later. And, you know, part of me falling off purpose was kind of losing touch of how to get there and, like, create something thriving and sustainable for our family. And, you know, we had some pretty difficult and challenging fights where she had to, you know, presence how much it hurt to not know what I was doing or what my plan was, you know, for how I was getting those. Those were times I wasn't in my power, so to speak. But then, you know, in my own way, the plan started to unveil itself. I definitely have had to get better and practice revealing my plan before it's fully formed. I think this is one of my, you know, weaknesses that I'm getting better at. Just like, hey, here's what I'm thinking before it's, like, solid and totally dead or formed and, like, perfect, but long and short of it would be. Then, you know, I got some clarity about, okay, yeah, you know, I don't want to be just making the bills, doing this work that totally drains me. I know I want to be creating art. I don't know how to, you know, support a family doing that yet. So what else can I start to do? And that's where, you know, I got very serious about diving even more into leadership and particularly men's work and men's growth and coaching and men's groups and all that. And a plan started to emerge, and I went for that. That plan didn't quite work in terms of keeping enough financial stability and in the timeline that I had set. And so, you know, another area where I definitely, you know, we kind of got into it and we were talking about this when we were thinking of examples of, like, power was towards the end of my first year as a men's coach when I just wasn't really making it particularly well, was serving really well, but just, you know, we live in an expensive city and it was getting tough. I had formed a plan of, okay, I know after Christmas I'm going to go out and get some part time work to just bring in some stable money and kind of stop, stop my Titanic ship from sinking financially, so to speak, while everything I was doing kind of had time to bloo and more organically kind of take off. And I was very clear about when I was going to do that. And she had some other ideas about when I should do that, which she can share.

Melanie Curtin: I'm not the most patient person in the world, let's just put it that way. I get so turned on when Jason talks about his ideas and plans. Even just here's what I'm thinking, like lights me up. It makes me feel like, oh, he's thinking about something for us or about the future. And that makes me feel really safe and relaxes my nervous system. So I. In the last year he has directed a web series and has been editing a few other projects that he's done and has had a lot of passion for authentic relating things. And there's just so many things that he's created in the last year which is really fun and really inspiring for me. And yeah, there was a point where I just, this is our theme is that I want it faster, I want it now or yesterday. And you know, he has his plan. So he had said, you know, I'm going to pick up some other work in January of 2019 so that we can be on track for having a family. And, and we had had a discussion in October about that and I was like, why aren't you doing it now? I didn't say it maybe quite like that, but it wasn't very nice probably the way I said it. And he was like, no, this is my plan in January. And he really stuck to that. He didn't say, oh, you're right, you're right, you know, it's October, I shouldn't wait, let me just do it now. So in January when he did start looking for, you know, just some part time things to help supplement like he said, while other things were blooming, within a week he had like four jobs. So it also is a good reminder to me that the masculine in general, and Jason especially, you know, when he says he's going to do something, he's absolutely going to do it, but it doesn't make sense or probably help anything for me to try to coax him to do it my way. Because even if he did it my way on my timeline, maybe I wouldn't respect him as much. So I have deep respect for him following what works for him and his timeline. Yeah, I like that. Especially the. It was funny when you said the word coax, I was like. Or the word nag might also work there, depending on whose verb we're using. But, yeah, I really like that in terms of that, you know, timeline that you just laid out. Like, this all happened over. I mean, like, this was a long time. Like, when you were in was a lot that you guys went through and, and kind of carried yourselves through. And like you said, Jason didn't do alone. Right. Like, you still going to your men's group. And Violet, you still had the support of your sisters, and you did have a therapist that was good and helped you, too. And so I kind of just want to point that out because again, the model that we're given, especially in the. In the west, is you're. You're in your little house, the two of you alone. Don't talk to anyone else about it. Maybe you talk to your dysfunctional family of origin and they say something dysfunctional. Right. But you don't actually get quality help from people that know what they're talking about. Like, say an attachment therapist who's like, okay, let's do an exercise around this. Let's talk about how you were raised. You know, like, a lot of people's moms or dads aren't going to be able to do that. They're just not able to do that. So I just really appreciate that your story again and again comes to the tribe, that it wasn't just you two going it alone, but it was involving other people in your couple that actually helped you get to a place of power. Definitely. And even other modalities. Like, I started taking a lot more S factor and going to see, you know, our network doctor that you introduced us to, Dr. George. And I think we were both, like, seeking ways to become more healthy in the relationship, both independently and together. And I think that helped. I mean, I didn't go to S Factor for Jason. I went for myself. But part of my motivation was that I knew he liked it when I was sexy and connected to my sexuality and, you know, dressing up for him sometimes at home and things like that. And so I think we were both wanting to bring our best to the relationship. And S Factor is a pole dancing class for those that are not familiar with it. It's like kind of like a conscious, more spiritual mind pole dancing. If I can just say one other thing too. You know, I'm wondering. This is just an idea, but I'm wondering if it's common for couples to have more of like a. I don't want to say stage one, but more of a superficial level of polarity. And then the honeymoon phase ends and it's like, oh, shit. And it's more like kind of stage two polarity, where the woman maybe is a little more intermasculine and the man is kind of being respectful, but maybe not like totally in his power as much. And then I feel like we've emerged, we emerged from that into a much more full and embodied and healthy and nuanced expression of our feminine and masculine energy. I feel like that's true of a lot of the conscious couples I've seen. And I think for those that aren't familiar with the stages that Violet's talking about, we did a podcast episode about it, actually. Violet, you and me, did that podcast episode, and we're wrapping up. We're starting to get to time here, so we're not going to go into depth in it, but I do think it's worth listening to that. It's based on the work of David Data, but a lot of it has to do with feminine and masculine embodiment and the sort of stereotypical, like, moving from the stereotypical masculine feminine that we're familiar with in Disney movies into second stage, which she mentioned, which is. Can be like, the woman's more in her masculine and the man is more in his feminine, which I think has been kind of carrying us through a couple decades now. Right. Like, I'd say, you know, man, Even since the 80s, I think it's been like, yeah, that's been an archetype, sort of like sensitive new age guy and then the boss bitch, lawyer, powerhouse woman who's, you know, rising in the ranks on the corporate ladder but not necessarily able to soften in relationships. And so now it feels really like this is the time for third stage. And third stage relationship is, at least from what I've seen, it's rarely, like, born that way. Right. Like, it's like you have to go through to get there. It's not just like, oh, we're just having a third stage relationship now. It's like we have to clear out all this old crap from the collective to get to that point. And it's a practice. I mean, it's not like we're there always. I mean, if I don't do jade, a jade egg practices or if I don't connect to my body or my friends or other things, then I can easily get really in my masculine, especially as a mom.

Jason Lange: So I think that that ties right into, you know, one of the last things I'll, I'll share that I think is really important for guys when it comes to, you know, being in our power. And that's, and this is one I still am, you know, in relationship with and negotiating and having to work in my own life of. I can feel there's a direct correlation between when and how much I feel in my power and just how resourced I am. So if I'm like exhausted and not taking care of myself and not making time for the things that bring me nourishment and our deep acts of self care and love and whatnot, where I'm not really just resourced as a man, I think that's, that's a sense a lot of us men know of. Like, I'm just exhausted, I'm burdened. There's so much to do. I'm worn out, I'm stressed. It's really hard for me to feel like I'm totally in my power and confidently lead from that place. But when I'm resourced, when I've gone on retreat with my men and hung out in the desert for a week, or for me, I just take myself to a movie and get away and go into the quiet or go hike or work out. Those are the times where I then come back and I'm just, I'm just more here and it's, it's just easier for me to, you know, kind of lead Violet and be in my power. You know, here's, here's. We're doing this tonight, you know, and in the loving way, like this is what's, what's going on, or I'm thinking about this or that or how about we do this? And yeah, I can just very much feel and reflecting back on moments when I feel least connected to my power in relationship, it's almost always when I'm just like exhausted and haven't taken care of myself. And so I don't even have the resources or energy to kind of be with what I want and what I need and to kind of take more charge in our relationship.

Melanie Curtin: Yeah, that's well said. I really like that and I think it's significant. One thing that jumped out at me when you're, at the beginning when you said I'm ready, meet me, is that you had done a Lot of work. Like, you had done so much work. You really did know about the things that helped nourish you. You really did have a sense of your body and your physical practices and your, you know, men's groups. Like, you had been doing a lot of stuff up until that point. You weren't just like, oh, hey, men's groups, like, what's that? Like, you have spent years on your journey already. So the things that you just mentioned, like, you know that going into the desert with your men nourishes you. You know, that this isn't something that you just figured out. You know, that getting away in a cold movie theater and watching film, which is one of your passions, which you love by yourself when no one's talking to you, and you can just really experience the movie, you know, you love that. You know, that fills you up. It's not like you had to discover all this stuff that fills you up and have a relationship at the same time. Like, you had done a lot of prep work to get yourself to that point so that you could, yeah. Recognize, like, oh, I'm not nourished right now. I'm not. I'm not resourced. I need to go do something to resource myself so that I can be a good leader for us.

Jason Lange: Totally. And feel in my power, you know, power in some sense is just having energy, being in alignment and having energy, you know, I would say. Or when those two things are happening, I, like, I feel powerful, feel unstoppable, and I feel attractive. Certainly, I imagine it's attractive on the other end. Jason Lange: We'll have the replay up even if it's already happened, and just get a sense of kind of, you know, and this is born a lot out of our experiences like we've been talking about are, you know, what are the elements that, when they're present and we're putting attention on them, add up to us Thriving, you know, in our coupledom and in our connection with each other. And so we're, you know, feeling pretty passionate about getting it out there that, you know, I think like a lot of those same movies kind of paint the picture of just like, oh, you just fall in love and then you're done, versus, like. No, actually it's a process. Like, it's a creative process you have to engage with every day and, you know, real love. And in my mind, it's something we have to choose and create and weave together. And so we're excited, you know, having kind of dissected our relationship of what has worked. If. Okay, we think these are the elements that if they're all firing, you're gonna have a passionate, connected couplehood.

Melanie Curtin: Yes. And a relationship that generates, that gives you energy instead of depleting you.

Jason Lange: Just. Men love.

Melanie Curtin: Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Like a relationship that gives you energy instead of.

Jason Lange: It's a resource. Right.

Melanie Curtin: That's the.

Jason Lange: I mean, I think that's what a lot of us deeply want, even if we don't have the name for it. Of like, oh, what if my relationship itself was a source of connection, energy, vitality and just peace? Even with the friction, there's like a, you know, there's a peace that comes from, okay, we're doing this together, not, I'm not. I don't have to do this all alone.

Melanie Curtin: Yeah. And I think, you know, like, a lot of the guys that we coach, Jason, have come from relationships that were draining, deeply draining, in some cases, you know, physically totally abusive as well as emotionally. And so it's just such a different paradigm to have it be. Yeah. What you're describing. So.

Jason Lange: And a lot of times those guys, you know, will tell us that looking back, they didn't feel in their power in that relationship. Right.

Melanie Curtin: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So we're gonna wrap here. And again, if you're interested that, it's violetlang.com couples. Is that right? Yes. Okay, great. Cool. And so I guess I just want to end this by saying thank you to the two of you because I really believe that conscious couples are the future and that that's really how we're going to raise a generation of humans who comes into the world with healthy attachment instead of has to do 10 years of work. So, yeah, good for you, for the two of you and for your daughter, but also for the world at large that you are forging the path and that you're doing this work and that you're just being who you are, because I think it really does make a difference. As more and more conscious couples come online, that's really what changes the field. Damage.