I just wrapped up a conversation with Melanie Curtin on her podcast Dear Men, digging into why it's so damn hard for men to leave relationships that clearly aren't working. We covered a lot of ground, from the terror of being alone to the identity crisis that hits when you realize you've built your whole sense of self around being someone's partner.
A few things really stood out in our talk. First, the nice guy trap of not wanting to hurt your partner, even when staying is slowly killing both of you. We talked about how so many men avoid the breakup conversation because they can't stand the thought of their partner being angry or hurt. But here's what we don't realize: staying in a relationship that's not working is actually more hurtful in the long run.
We also got into the fear of being alone and that black and white thinking of "this is better than nothing." Particularly for guys who haven't dated in years or decades, there's this deep fear of I don't know how to do this anymore. Where do I even meet people? What do I even want? So we stay because at least we know what we have, even if what we have isn't much.
What I kept coming back to throughout the conversation is how critical male community is in all of this. I shared my own story of leaving a long term relationship and literally walking into my men's group the next night and bursting into tears. Without that structure already in place, I would have just gone home and numbed out. So many men put all their emotional processing on their intimate partner, which makes leaving feel impossible because suddenly you have nowhere to go with what you're feeling.
If you're in a relationship that's not working and you're stuck, get some help. Work with someone who can help you see the patterns clearly. And build your community now, not after you leave. You need that structure in place to catch you when things get hard.
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Jason Lange: Cause some guys, you know, they haven't dated in decades or years. And there's a feeling of I don't know how to do it. I don't know how I'm going to do it. Where do I even meet people? What do I even want? I feel totally ill equipped. And so there's just this deep fear that for as dysfunctional as the relationship may be, clearly this person has never really left me. So it can be safe, right? There's a type of safety there. And not having to confront that fear of the unknown.
Melanie Curtin: Hi everyone. Happy Thanksgiving and Black Friday. This episode is dropping on Black Friday and yes, we are running a special for that day. So if you book a call and enroll in our flagship coaching program, Pillars of Presence, which you've probably heard us reference on the podcast before. If you book a call and enroll within the next week, I.e. black Friday through Friday, December 5th, you will receive several bonuses. First, you will get two bonus calls with both me and Jason during the program. You will also get free access to one of my streaming courses. You can choose between please her in bed or cock control. And you will also get a free spot in Jason's men's group program next year, 2026. And you'll be able to choose your own timing around that. So if you're interested, just go to Evolutionary Men. Apply to book that call. And as a reminder, that program includes coaching, yes, but it also includes training, community. Part of the program's purpose and the structure of it is to connect you to other open hearted, growth minded men. If you feel like you don't have enough community in your life, if you want to end 2025 and move into 2026, building that community, building that structure. And if you want to also receive coaching at the same time while making friends, please join us. We would love to have you. And without further ado, let's get into this episode and you know that I always want to hear from you. Dearmen podcastmail.com hi everyone. Welcome back to another Jason Lange episode. It's been a little while since we've had you on the podcast. Thanks for being here.
Jason Lange: Excited to be back.
Melanie Curtin: Yay. So today we're talking about why it's so hard for men to let go of love relationships even when they're not working. So this is a pattern we've definitely seen. And it is autumn. It is fall. It is a season of shedding and letting go right now. It is a season of leaves and other material dropping to the ground, being composted re Earthed, turned back into soil. And I would say that overall I believe that we have a positive frame on letting go when appropriate. And we're going to talk about what happens when that tree just doesn't want to let go of its dead leaves and it's just hold, it's grasping on, it's tightly grassing onto those dead leaves. And why, why do we do that? Why especially why do men do that? And I, in preparation for this, looked up some social science studies and I'm not going to be referencing specific studies, but when there is social science behind it, I will mention that, but there are, this has been studied and there are actual reasons for this. So. Yeah. Why is it so hard for men to let go of romantic relationships that aren't working? We have eight reasons that we've outlined here and let's just dive right in. This first one I would say doesn't apply to everyone, but for those to whom it does apply, it is quite compelling. And that is, I don't want to hurt my partner. Can you speak a little bit to what we've seen in our men or what you've experienced personally around this one?
Jason Lange: Yeah. I mean, it's just a terror about being alone and that maybe this is the best I'm ever going to get and I'm going to regret it if I leave. So even if I'm just getting a sliver of connection or what I want, that's better than nothing, right? Is often the kind of black and white thinking, and depending on how long you've been in a relationship, it's also. This is one that really can just be confronting because some guys, you know, they haven't dated in decades or years. And there's a feeling of I don't know how to do it. I don't know how I'm going to do it. Where do I even meet people? What do I even want? I feel totally ill equipped. And so there's just this deep fear that for as dysfunctional as the relationship may be, clearly this person has never really left me. So it can be safe. Right. There's a type of safety there and not having to confront that fear of the unknown. And a lot of what drives this, you know, we've often seen, is undiagnosed self loathing and low self esteem. Just this feeling that I can't attract someone better who honors my boundaries or is curious about actually growing together or whatever that might be. And so there's just this fear of this is it, so I gotta hold on for dear life because I'm not worthy of anyone else, let alone I wouldn't even know how to get them if I actually went for it.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah, I am moved by that, that sense of paralyzation and just fear. And what's interesting about this conversation is that you and I have seen a lot of men move through this in our work together. You know, we've seen a lot of men go from feeling paralyzed to, to feeling. What is the word? It's not confident isn't quite the word, but resolved or accept. You know, there's a sense of I'm gonna be okay, I'm gonna be okay either way, I'm gonna be okay, I'm gonna be okay if I stay, I'm gonna be okay if I don't stay. And that leads to a sense of freedom from which a man can make a sober assessment of a relationship rather than. Because it's not really a sober assessment. When you're terrified of being alone, there's not really a choice. You're not really making a choice. Whereas when you have that sense of being rooted in something greater, including loving, healthy community, it's. It's just a different place to come from. So yeah, I really felt you around. This is it. I've gotta hold on for dear life versus I'm an adult and I'm making a decision about what's best for me and the people I love and one of the people I love. So my dreams actually matters, my needs actually matter. And I think that's often the journey that I witness in a lot of the men that we work with is going from my needs don't matter to a felt sense of my needs matter. And I matter. It's not that I matter more than other people, but my needs matter. I'm not going to sacrifice all of my needs and kind of sweep them under the rug anymore. I'm actually here. I'm actually a person. I actually exist. I actually matter. And that's a different place to come from. And different decisions are made from that place.
Jason Lange: Yeah, it's really just about not excluding oneself. So I'm going to value my needs as much as someone else's. And again, it ties right into the roots of self esteem. Because if I don't believe I'm worth it, I'm not going to ask for it. So this is where it can be really confronting to start to transform and change and realize, wow, yeah, if I don't ask for something, probably not going to get it. And so for me to ask for it, I have to just have a deep sense of, yeah, my needs matter too. And, you know, we work with a lot of guys too, who have kids and. And as soon as we're like, well, what lesson do you want to teach your kids? They're like, well, I want to teach them that, yeah, their needs matter and they should be in a healthy and reciprocal relationship. And then they start to see it and the light switch goes off of, oh, but I'm not actually doing that for myself. And that becomes a huge shift.
Jason Lange: Yeah, I'll just add, you know, part of what's confronting about leaving a relationship, particularly in terms of identity, like you said, is, you know, one of the things I've told men is, right, you gotta be able to answer three questions, who am I? What do I want? And where am I going? Or how am I gonna get there? And that's the thing so many men drop once they get into a relationship and they become identified with their job, they become identified by being a hu. A father. And they actually lose track of who am I inside? Not the things I do or the things I have, but who am I? What do I give a shit about what makes me uniquely me? That's not just these external things. And when we leave a relationship, we have to get confronted by that because suddenly all these roles that were taking the place of us knowing our identity, those roles are gone. And so if we don't have a firm identity underneath that, it can be quite scary. And like you said, the beauty is as you let go into that, particularly as you let go into community, of into community, you can discover yourself in a totally different way that lo and behold, you're gonna even. You're gonna be able to attract a better relationship because you're gonna actually know who you are, not based on these roles, but by who you've grown into and who you've become. So it can be a big challenge to let go in these ways. But we've just seen time and time again, it's worth it. And oftentimes it also ends up giving your partner the opportunity to discover who they really are and grow into the relationship that fits them even better. So it can actually end up being a win win.
Melanie Curtin: Absolutely. And if you are interested in coaching with us, you can go to Evolutionary Men Apply. And I talked a little bit about our Black Friday special that we're running at the beginning of this episode, so you can always go back to that. But it is quite enticing. So if you're interested in working with us. Now is a really good time. And happy autumn. Da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da.
