All right, well, this was a fun one. My wife Violet and I got to sit down with Ray and Jean on Couples Synergy, and we went deep pretty quickly. We talked about how we met (including Violet's dream where I apparently showed up before we'd even connected in person), our early relationship conflicts around commitment, and what it's been like building our careers while growing together as partners.
A big chunk of the conversation landed on the work I do with men around embodiment. For so many guys, the default is to live in our heads, trying to fix and problem-solve when what our partners actually want is presence and connection. We talked about the whole nice guy pattern versus what it means to be a kind man, someone who can stand in his power AND his heart simultaneously. Ray brought up the biological piece too, how men tend to compartmentalize, and we explored what it looks like to move beyond that without just swinging to the opposite extreme.
Violet and I also got into polarity and how we keep the erotic friction alive in our relationship, especially when we're cohabitating, co-parenting, running businesses together. It's this paradox where intimacy requires closeness, but turn-on requires difference. So we've had to learn how to intentionally dial that up when the moment is right, how I can drop into more masculine presence so she can relax into her feminine and open. That dance is ongoing work for us, but it's powerful.
If you're navigating what it means to be a man in relationship today, or you're trying to figure out how to show up with both strength and vulnerability, this conversation hits on a lot of that. Check it out wherever you listen to podcasts, and if any of this lands for you, reach out. I work with men one-on-one and in groups around this exact territory.
Jason
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Host: Take a girl and a guy and.
Jason Lange: They fall madly in love and form a family.
Host: Sprinkle in some counseling degrees and a doctorate. A dream of transforming relationships as we know it. And 20 years later, we give you.
Jason Lange: Power couple Dr. Ray and Jean Khadkotian. And this is their podcast, Couples Synergy. Foreign. Welcome back to another episode of couple synergy with Dr. Ray and Jean. Hi, I'm Dr. Ray.
Host: And I'm Jean. And this is our podcast about love, marriage and relationships.
Jason Lange: Please check us out [email protected] or on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, and LinkedIn. It's a mouthful @couplesynergy. And please subscribe to our podcast, leave us a review, or send us any suggestions on topics you'd like to hear more about. And now on to Couple Synergy, an in depth look at love, marriage and relationships, where we bring you our experience helping thousands of couples transform their relationships for over 25 years.
Host: Everyone says you should work on your relationship, but nobody teaches us how. So we've created this podcast to teach people what they can do, to create the relationship they've always dreamed of with.
Host: Yeah, thank you.
Jason Lange: So, you know, before we get into the work that you guys do, can you guys tell our audience a little bit of yourselves? All right, how old are you? How long have you been together? And, well, I guess we're going to get into what you do for a living, but just let's start with that.
Host: Yeah. So we're both 43, we've been together for eight years, married for six and a half, and we have a four year old daughter. And kind of a cosmic love story about how we met. And our relationship is definitely the foundation for the teaching and the work that we do in the world because there's always new material, deeply committed to individual growth and growing as a couple.
Jason Lange: And we met in 2015, got married in 2017, and no end in sight. So things are going great and we're committed to doing the work to make it work.
Host: Can you tell us the story of how you met? I would love to. Um, so I was at the time, had just started dating someone but it didn't feel like the right fit. He was really sarcastic, and I have a very sensitive heart. And so I had been, you know, meditating and praying and trying to figure out, do I stay with this person who seems perfect on paper, in quotations, even though it's not feeling great for my heart, or do I let this person go? And one of the nights that I was contemplating this, I had a dream. And I did not know he was a real life person at the time, but Jason came to me in that dream. He put his hand on my heart and said, joe, the guy I was dating, Joe's a 10 and you're a 100. What are you doing with this guy? So I woke up laughing, thinking, okay, God, you know, message delivered. I don't know who this guy was, but I just. I woke up laughing. Then I fell back asleep. And then three weeks later, I was at a meetup event on lucid dreaming, and this guy approaches me, and I say to the woman next to me who I had just met that night, oh, my God, that's the guy I had a dream about a few weeks ago. She's like, okay. And I did not tell him that story the first time we met because I thought it might freak him out. But I did tell him on our first date, and he was very receptive. He was like, oh, I was claiming you before I even met you. Yeah.
Jason Lange: Do you remember astral traveling that night, Chase? I had an experience we've kind of pieced together probably about the same time she had that dream. I was doing some pretty deep inner work and had a pretty make or break situation where I was like, you know what? I'm done chasing. I had been kind of chasing some women. It wasn't really working out. And had this deep inner experience of, you know what? Instead of like, I'm going to chase women, I just had this thing of like, I'm ready to be met. Just, I'm ready to be met. I'm doing my work. I'm available for relationships. So just whoever's out there, meet me. And we kind of pieced together. I'm like, doing this deep work one night, and that's the night she had the dream. And a couple weeks later, we came together. So we like to think that, yeah, there was something happening in the magic sphere. What were you thinking when you were approaching her that day at the conference? Very attracted to her and very curious. Through the whole room, just through some of the sharing, it had become very clear that she was very deep. And one of the things I got clear about from my previous relationship, which had a lot of love in it, but some just deeply missing pieces. And some of them were around growth. And I quickly was very impressed just from what she had shared in the evening of, wow, this is someone who's really deep and committed to their growth path. And to me, that was really attractive.
Host: How long was it before you knew this was your person? I mean, I knew we had this cosmic love story, but I had been burned in dating quite a bit. And even in relationship where I was probably spiritually bypassing, getting ahead of myself, telling all my friends, oh, my gosh, she's the one after only like three days. And I think some people do have that experience. They have like an instant download of this is my person. But because I had thought that was true and wasn't true and had stayed in relationships where I wasn't getting my needs met because I had this preconceived notion they were my person, I don't think I really knew until we got engaged. Then I was like, oh, yeah, okay, this is my person. So I think maybe I had a little bit of trust issues in terms of just really letting that sink in until it felt really committed.
Jason Lange: And I knew pretty early on that this was somewhat special because we actually had some conflict come up very early in our relationship around where we were going and directions. And the thing that stood out to me was how willing to stay connected through the conflict she was with me, which I had never experienced before. And that was like, wow, this. This feels really different. Like, there's a lot of tension here right now, but we're like, still in it with each other. So I knew it was something really special. And then, you know, I think it was within eight months we were at a festival and had some amazing experiences. And I was just like, wow. Yeah, okay. It came to me very suddenly in my body of like, what am I waiting for? Like, this is a yes. This is someone I can go the distance with, so to speak. And hadn't even planned on it, but just within 30 seconds was like, oh, I'm gonna ask you to marry me. Boom. The rest is history. Do you remember what that early conflict was about? We sure do. Because I was coming out of a five year relationship and I was a pretty late bloomer. So I hadn't had a ton of relationships or experiences. When I came out, I was like, I not ready to dive into something. And I was more of wanting to kind of date around and have some experiences and not necessarily get into a closed relationship right away. And she was not right. That's not where she was at initially. And so I had this really interesting tension of like, wow, like, I want to honor where I'm at, and there's something here that I've never experienced before. And we kind of just had to hold that tension with each other for, I don't know, weeks, months. And again, it was, you know, in a paradoxical way, it was the willingness to stay connected to me in that tension that completely transformed things. And it turns out, sounds like our early conflict, our first early conflict is exactly that. Yeah, I think it's in some sense, for the. Whoever's holding the masculine in a relationship, sometimes they want to wait longer to commit, you know, but in the end, it became very clear, like, oh, yeah, I'm down to close this down.
Host: So many things, you know, I had been telling my therapist at the time and some of my friends, too. You know, I'm really looking for a man of integrity. Like, it's less about some of the surface things that our culture might tell us is really important. You know, even though he's successful, like how much they make or what kind of car they drive, or all this superficial masculine that's out there. Not that I had fallen prey to that too much, but I think I wasn't always clear on my values. I wasn't dating based on my values. So I was crystal clear. I wanted someone of integrity, and I wanted someone who's deeply practiced, who is committed to their own personal growth. And so the night that we met, actually, we were having this great conversation, and then a group of us was going to go to a bar after the event, and he said, oh, you know, it's like , and I haven't done my meditation for today, so I need to get it done by midnight. So I'm not going to go. And even though it really pissed me off, because I thought, what? You're having this great connection. You don't know this yet, but I just, you know, I met you in a dream three weeks ago, and I knew. I was like, oh, this is a person of integrity. He has a commitment to daily meditate. And even if it's and he just met this woman that he's connecting with, he's going to honor that. So that, to me, just really was one of the most pivotal moments. Yeah.
Jason Lange: And, yeah, for me, it was, like I said, her clear commitment to practice and growth and her play, her fun, her wildness, in a good way, in terms of just being very expressive. And as someone who is not particularly, at that time, was not particularly expressive, it was really nice to be around someone who just had full access to their emotional self and didn't really hold that back. And I also really liked that just early on, I got a sense through some of our time spent together, she was resourced. And what I mean by that is she was resourced. She had friends, she had a therapist. She just. She had people on her team, which I hadn't always been in relationships with that before, where it was just me and my partner, which puts a lot of stress on that relationship. So feeling that she was resourced, that she had so much emotion and energy and play, and just the fact that, yeah, she very vulnerably kept opening herself in trust to me, you know, even when it wasn't easy for her, I was like, wow, this is someone who's really showing up and taking a risk on me. And I had never really had a partner fully trust me in that way before.
Host: And I'll also just say, I mean, I shared that pivotal moment about his integrity, but I could feel that his care for me. There were many times early on and later on where he would say, I'm not going anywhere. I'm here for you. We're just getting started. And that was so comforting because I had my own fears of abandonment and rejection. And so even when things were uncertain, I could tell how much he cared about me.
Jason Lange: That's great. So what is the period of time of dating before you guys get engaged?
Host: Yeah, I mean, it was only about five months after we became exclusive until we got engaged, so that was maybe a bit fast. But I think we had done so much, so much work through these hiccups and conflicts getting there that that felt really appropriate to me. And then we Got married basically, like a year after that or a little over a year after that.
Host: And. And creating competition.
Jason Lange: Creating competition. Actually reinforcing transactional relationships. You know, so that. That is just. It's unfortunate. You know, we'd love to see our field kind of catch up with it, but.
Host: So one of the topics that is always popular is our sexuality. Can you talk about that for a few minutes of what you see that is breaking down that intimacy for couples? And what helps?
Jason Lange: And I think just to tie back to what she shared about earlier in our relationship, there's a commitment to prior prioritize sex for us. Some seasons that's higher than other, just depending on our life circumstances. But it's something we're always committed to come back to. Because what we do find is when we're connecting sexually, there's so much more bandwidth in the system for the rest of our stresses and everything. It's just, it kind of makes it all work when we can really connect and prioritize our connection in that way. Which yes, sometimes it's sexually, sometimes it's more sensual or non erotic. But the idea is, you know, having a family and leading communities, like, it really starts from our connection. If we're disconnected, that shows up everywhere else for us. So we really work to prioritize connection. And when we can't get there ourselves, that's when we turn to outside help of like, hey, we need help. We're at a place where I don't know how to lead us back to connection. She doesn't know how. So we need some support. But it's that commitment to it I think is really valuable for us and that we really suggest to partners that, you know, again, how much sex you have, that's up to you as a couple. But every couple's got kind of their amount. Right.
Host: And it changes, I have to say. I mean, like, we don't have nearly as much sex as we had when we first met, but there's. We still have deep sexual experiences together and we can trust that we can reconnect in that way.
Jason Lange: Yeah, but we're committed to having enough to keep our relationship vital in a sense, because I've worked with quality so many men. Quality, not quantity. Yeah, well, I've worked with so many men who have gotten into sexless marriages and, you know, 20, 30 years, and they're just dying inside, like a basic human need. And they, you know, they're nice guys, so they often start to tell this story. Well, there's something wrong with me that. Because my wife thinks she. I just want sex. But from almost every man I work with, it's not just about the sex. It's about the connection they feel after the sex. Right. So the sex is. It's about who you get to be after. Is something I heard afterwards, like, who will be. Who will we be after we have sex and connect? That's kind of what makes it meaningful. And it takes work. And, you know, for nice guys in particular.
Host: Wow.
Jason Lange: My sexuality is not something to hold in chain. This an important part of my human experience. And I want to be connected to my partner because when that connection's online, like we said, for us, it just feels generative. We have more energy to put out into the world more love, more service.
Host: Which is the opposite of what you learn in pornography, which is what a lot of people learn about sex, unfortunately.
Jason Lange: And just the media in general, you know, they just kind of are kind of creating this unrealistic expectation and. And just making people feel more shame in their relationships.
Host: You know, one of the things you say is, like, a wedding ring is like a bungee cord, and you can get so much distance, but at some point it's too much and it drives you back together. And that weaves a really strong pattern in a relationship and in a bond. So, last question. What is it that your partner does that, you know, they love you?
Jason Lange: You know, this kind of might sound generic, but she'll appreciate me. And just so you know, maybe I've been working hard or a lot's been going on, she'll take the time, usually, you know, spontaneously, just like, hey, I really. I really noticed you've been helping out more around the house. Or I see what just. I see you. I see what you've been doing, and I appreciate that. Even when it's imperfect, right? Even if I've dropped the ball sometimes. And just that acknowledgement of her willingness to acknowledge how hard I'm trying in our relationship and in our family, in our life, even when it's imperfect, just. I mean, it just hits me like, well, my whole body softens, and it's like, oh, wow, great. I got even more to give now, just being recognized for how much I'm trying.
Host: And I think for me, it's Just his unconditional acceptance. You know, I. I think a lot of women will probably relate to this. Like, there's days I just feel frustrated or like, oh, I just feel gross, or. We always. We always say, like, if there were T shirts for men and women in our complaining mode, for men, it would be tired, grumpy, and burdened. And for women, it would be, like, gloated, frustrated, and unloved or something. And so even if I say, like, oh, no, I'm frustrated that you were late from that call, and I really wanted you to get off that call sooner because I was feeling overwhelmed with Ruby. He's just like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. I totally get that, why you might feel that way. Just feel, like, so frumpy and bleh and like, no, you look beautiful. Like, he genuinely accepts me as I am and isn't afraid to comfort me. And that just really relaxes me. That's interesting. You're talking about that, how we feel about ourselves. And I'm in the process of putting a thing together for my sister who's turning 60, and looking back at pictures through the years and knowing at the time I didn't feel good about what I look like and looking at the pictures saying, I actually was fine, you know, and we have such a distortion, and it has really nothing to do with what we see in the mirror. And I would put on that shirt ugly. You just have this ugly feeling sometimes, and it has nothing to do with what you actually look like.
Jason Lange: I had an image of those T shirts, but at the bottom has an arrow. So I'm with him and I'm with her.
Host: That's cute. You know, people have been sharing their stories since the beginning of time to bond and heal and grow. And we hope that by you guys sharing your stories story, it's enriched your lives and the lives of our listeners. Yeah, I hope so too. Thank you for letting us share and for being such great hosts.
Jason Lange: Yeah, no problem. And, you know, before we sign off, where can our audience get to know a little bit more about the work that both of you do? Yeah, for me, it would be at my website, Evolutionary Men. It's not dot com, it's dot men. And you can see a bunch of my writings and the ways I support men. And I have my own podcast for men on there as well, where that's probably the most direct line to the work I'm up to.
Host: And I'll just tell a very quick story before I share mine, which is we were talking about empowerment, and one of the most empowering things I did was when my daughter was born to really cut down my work and not post on social media anymore and just kind of get off that bandwagon. So my website is very out of date, but you can still find me there. It's violet language.com I've shifted less from like my marketing and promotion and really just into my client work and taking care of my family and myself. So the best way to actually get a hold of me is to email [email protected] and there is an E at the end of lang and we can just have an email conversation or even hop on the phone for 15 minutes and see how I can support you. And if I can't, I'll send you some books or resources to dive into. So I'm a little more interested in just like the one on one connection.
Jason Lange: Great, great. And we'll put all those links in the show notes as well. I want to thank you guys for being on our podcast today and and we want to also thank all of our audience for tuning in to Couple Synergy. Our passion is in helping couples and people have happy and healthy relationships and this podcast gives us a fun way of bringing our knowledge and expertise to you, our listeners. For all of you listening, please let us know how you enjoyed the show. If you have any questions, comments or topic suggestions, please email [email protected] for more information about Couple Synergy and our programs such as Relationship 101, the Home Study Course, the Next Couples Relationship Enhancement Weekend and our premier couples coaching program called Couple to Couple. Look us up [email protected] and if you.
Host: Know someone who could benefit from this episode, please download it and share it and thank you for listening.
Jason Lange: Until next time, synergize your life and synergize your love.
Host: You have been listening to couple synergy.
Jason Lange: With Dr. Ray and Jean Kadkodian. Couple Senergy was recorded, edited and produced.
Host: By Dr. Ray and Jean Ketkotian. Voiceover and music entitled Breathe and Let Go was recorded and composed by Gina Gonzalez.
