Talking with Melanie Curtin reminded me why I love diving into topics that make people squirm a little. We explored polarity work and the real mess that happens when people treat these masculine/feminine concepts like gospel instead of the flexible tools they're meant to be. She brought such clarity to why this framework can transform heterosexual relationships when used wisely, but also why it becomes toxic when people get rigid about it.
One of the biggest issues I see is men thinking they have to hold the masculine pole 100% of the time. That's exhausting and frankly, not realistic. For just as many guys I work with, their growth edge isn't about cultivating more alpha energy at all. It's about learning to soften, rest, and take care of themselves. The real power is in fluidity, being able to move between energies as needed.
We also talked about the confusion between stage one narcissism and mature stage three relating. They can look similar on the outside because both have directionality, but what's driving that is completely different. True polarity work never means you always have to do a certain thing. It's not an excuse for poor behavior or ignoring boundaries.
The other thing I want to name is that every teacher, every system, including mine, has limitations. David Deida's work has been transformative for many people, and there are places where his personal experience shaped the teaching in ways that don't work for everyone. No map is perfect. These concepts are useful until they're not, and they need to be held lightly.
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Jason Lange: It can be really easy for people that read the way the Spearman me. Oh, I have to hold space no matter what, whatever fire she's bringing at me. And that's totally not the case. There is absolutely a place for boundaries and there is an absolutely a place to step out of polarity and just be like, no, this doesn't feel good to me.
Melanie Curtin: So before this episode, I wanted to share a quick celebration. This is actually not from a podcast listener or a client, but this is from a reader of one of my articles. I've been publishing more articles online and this is one. This is in response to one of the articles I recently posted about five things I look forward to hearing from my man. So if you're interested in that, you can just google that. It's up on Elephant Journal. And this is what this this reader had to say. I love that you prefaced the article with the past does not dictate the future. People really can change. My romantic relationships repeated an undesirable pattern. Once I realized there was a pattern, I dug deep to find out why. And once I found out why, which included working with the right mentors, I began actively starting to reprogram myself. My current relationship is great and feels so different than my other relationships. So much so that I was thrown off at first, almost scared or shocked. I had to intentionally actively recognize that I was experiencing what I had always desired. So of course it's going to feel different and then allow myself to accept it now. I can't believe I let myself go all those years accepting less. We live and learn and we really can make effective change. I just love that so much. We live and learn and we really can make effective change. I have seen it happen repeatedly. It's happening for people everywhere. It's one of the things that I love about the work that I do and just life in general is that the past does not dictate the future. We always have choice. We always have choice. We always have choice. So if you are interested in supporting the podcast and also joining our community, we do a live Q and A monthly for podcast supporters that join our patreon at A$10 a month level or more. If you want to do that, you can just go to Patreon Dear Men podcast, join at that tier and then you will be included in that. And there was another announcement I was trying to remember, but I'm forgetting right now. Well, if it comes to me, I will. I'll let you know. And you can always reach me @dearmen podcastmail.com. hello, and welcome back to another episode. So happy to have Jason back again. So good to have you. Thank you for being here.
Jason Lange: Yeah, I'm excited to be back. It's a juicy topic today.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah. So today we're talking about the problems with polarity. And it's interesting because polarity is a concept that we talk about frequently. And I think that I want to preface this by saying two things. One is that you're going to hear again, like last week, you're going to hear from some of our clients or graduates and their thoughts on polarity, what has been useful for them and what have been sort of issues or problems that they've had with it. It. And I'm also going to speak to several personal conversations that I've had with clients or former clients around this topic. And I think that there we, as a team, I would say, and, you know, I think a lot of us in this industry have emphasized this concept of polarity in part because I think it explains some complex phenomena and it is a way of understanding the dynamics between the two, the two polls. And, you know, we're going to get into this. But one of the, you know, the first problem with polarity work in many ways is that it's hetero, heteronormative. So we tend to use words like masculine and feminine. I prefer to use words like alpha and omega, as I've mentioned on other podcasts, in part to get away from those two words, masculine and feminine, because they come loaded up with a lot of cultural associations. And one of the things that we talk about a lot in polarity work, but I think that gets missed, is that we all have an inner alpha and an inner omega. We all have these energies within us. So it's not just about relating with people outside of us. It's also about our relationship with ourselves. And I think that's something that gets missed. So I just wanted to preface this by saying some of these concepts. You'll. You'll see and you'll notice showing up in yourself. And that's important. And in our work. One of the reasons that we talk about polarity so much is because it has been very useful and helpful for a lot of the men that we work with in understanding how to attract, turn on, and maintain sexual heat in a relationship. And for a lot of our guys, that has been a challenge. That has been a major challenge in their past relationships or in their current relationship. And it's not just about sex. It's also about trust. So there's a way that healthy polarity can generate deep trust in both partners, which we'll get into. But I guess I just wanted to sort of preface everything by saying that, that the reason we keep talking about polarity is because we have found it useful in our own lives and we have found it useful in the lives of our clients. And I think there's a lot of good to be had with it. And like any frame, like any paradigm, there are also flaws. And we kind of want to be open about that and bring those into the discussion and include them so that we're not just blindly following along. Anything you want to add to that?
Jason Lange: Yeah, I think it's just a really important concept here that you're talking about. And, you know, we primarily tend to work with heterocouples, so that also emphasizes a lot of where our energy goes. But there's a lot of other people exploring this type of work in different ways. That's not my lived experience of expertise. So I obviously don't feel as comfortable speaking towards how other people might be working this or playing with these energies in different contexts. Um, and just that, yeah, it, you know, it's useful until it's not. And, but for a lot of people, it's very useful these days. And I think particularly why for a lot of the men we work with is that there used to be a lot more emphasis on just the roles. You had to be a certain thing. And as long as you were doing your role, a relationship was successful. One of the great things we're really happy about is how much that is all being liberated and in a sense, decimated. So you can be whatever you want to be, right. Just because you're a woman, just because you're a man, any configuration in between, you have a lot more choice and freedom about how you want to show up. The paradox of that actually is, in some sense it becomes even more important to understand just some of the simple physics of attraction that tend to work for a lot of people because we can't just fall back on the roles in, in. In. Another way to think about this is it's useful to bring a little bit more consciousness to, okay, then how can I generate that if, yeah, I truly do feel like my partner is an equal, and yet I don't want to just feel like we're in a flat best friend scenario. How do we create that, that turn on and attraction. And so we do tend to talk about it from the hem. Heteronormative. But there's. There are people out there who Are, you know, exploring this space in all the other conf. We probably don't speak towards that as much because that's just not our lived experience as much.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah. So let's talk about that briefly. So the first, yeah, the first problem with polarity is that it tends to be heteronormative. I have a lot of queer friends and some gender fluid friends and I do think that the concepts are universal. The concept of Alpha and Omega, particularly as we're talking about it within ourselves, our own inner Alpha, our own inner Omega. And I think it's, it would be helpful to just briefly, very briefly go over because we do have other polarity episodes which if you haven't heard about the concept, I will drop those in the show notes and it's helpful to get a deeper dive into it. But essentially we're talking about the two dualities within, within us. And Alpha is more directive, linear, thought based clarity, structure associated sometimes with the sun, with light. Yeah. Penetrative, pioneering direction. The banks of the river. The banks of the river, the structure, the container. What is holding Omega? And Omega is the river. It's flowing, it's allowing, it's receiving, it's revealing, it's the energy of. I'm kind of moving my body, right. It's loose, it's not structured or rigid, it's pliable, it's flexible, it's open, it's flow, it's flow. Creativity sometimes associated with the moon or with darkness. And those are really two dualities within all of us. And so, you know, I'm thinking of for example, me holding Alpha for myself might look like creating a container where I say, okay, I'm going to write every day for an hour. I'm going to, I'm a writer, I'm going to write. And that's my, that's my structure. And here's the time, I'm going to do it and here's the place. And then Omega is what am I going to write about? My creativity, my flow, my allowing the images and the, and the whatever wants to come through me. To come through me and just being in the flow of writing. So there's one example of Alpha and Omega. You can, you can sort of feel the difference between those. And I think that there's the, you know, embodiment within ourselves and then there's between us, between, between our, our, our structures. An example of holding Alpha is I will be the one that creates the calendar invite. I will drop the zoom link in it. Right. I will create the container and hold the container. And I think that a good example in our dynamic, you and me, is you hold alpha in a lot of the course structure, the zoom links, and all of the kind of holding. And I am able to hold Omega and flow in the calls because you've provided a container. So within, you know, each other's relationships, we flow between these two energies as well. And what we find is that for a lot of the men that we work with, they just don't. They just didn't know about it. They just didn't know about polarity. They didn't know about it. And so they weren't able to kind of break down or understand why certain interactions worked with women. And again, this is a heteronormative frame that we're taking, but this is true in many. In many relationships, versus understanding the mechanics behind it and grasping, oh, I see why polarity was generated here, why there was heat here, or why it worked over here and why it didn't work over here. And so it can make it feel a lot more accessible or able to be not controlled, but sort of worked with. And my observation in gender fluid folks and queer dynamics is that a lot of times there is more. There is more flexibility, there is more crossover, there is more going back and forth between these two energies. Whereas in hetero relationships, there is often still a sort of. We're all coming with our unconscious biases, we're all coming with what our culture has presented. So we are still holding a frame around. The man is supposed to do this and the woman is supposed to do this. You know, the man is supposed to. Because I guess what I'm trying to say is that sometimes in polarity work, it can have echoes of the past. It can have echoes of, okay, yeah, the man is supposed to hold the structure and the woman is supposed to show up in a pretty flowing dress. Dress and. And dance around. Right? And it. We don't want it to come across that way. And sometimes it does. So I think it's important to just bring the shadow elements of this to light, to just say, yeah, this is part of. This is part of the story too. And I think that's one of the major problems with it, is that it can feel re. It can feel regressive sometimes and we can do things to mitigate that. But I think that's just generally true. So that's the first issue is that it. It is heteronormative much of the time. Doesn't have to be, but that does have elements of it. And I, I Would just own that myself for this podcast, because this is a podcast directed at men who are attracted to women, that it is heteronormative. And. And we have had queer clients. We have had men who identify as bisexual or pansexual, and we'll continue to have those clients, and we welcome those clients, and we want to work with those clients. So it's not exclusive. And I think that it could be more inclusive. We could put our attention on that. And I guess I just want to own that. Yeah. We are living a hetero life, right? The two of both of us. That is our lived experience, and that is important to name and honor and be with. Okay, so any last shares on that before we move on? You're muted.
Jason Lange: I think part of what's important about this moment in time is nobody can tell you what you are. Right. So just because you're born in a man's body or a woman's body does not mean you have to be the feminine or you have to be the masculine or anything like that. Part of, you know, this idea of we have these energies inside of us is it's a discovery to. To find just what brings you the most energy and vitality in your life and what feels the most restorative. And then how do you play with those energies interpersonally? You know, I personally believe that these energies, whatever you want to call them, life and death go and flow, yin and yang, feeling, perspective, alpha, omega, masculine, feminine. They start at such a. Even more primordial level than sexuality. Sexuality is like a manifestation through biology of them. But these energies, you know, just the duality, polarity, in that sense, it's all over in nature. And, you know, just the last thing I'll share is just. We see it in magnets, right? It's just such a simple, beautiful thing. You have a positive side, you have a negative side. They move towards each other. If they're both the same, they push each other away sometimes. And for a lot of people, that works, and it doesn't work for everybody. There's also, you know, even in physics, there's neutrons, there's ones that are not charged either way. And for some people, that's just going to be the case. What's important more than anything, anything we teach is, you know, what works for you. So you can consciously attract a partner who. That's also going to work for. Where men have gotten into trouble and where this can be so illuminating is they keep trying to make something work with a certain type of partner who isn't a fit for their energetics. And that's it. So it's. Once you become conscious of your energetics, whatever you want to call them, then it's a lot easier for you to pull in or call in the right partnership.
Melanie Curtin: It's a great way of putting it. And I want to read one of the responses from one of our men who this was in response to. What have you found useful about polarity? He says, it really seems like the missing link. I had so many concepts about masculinity, like needing to have a shredded physique or have some ideally manly job, and it really is as simple as being directed and able to take charge. Way less complicated. I liked that response because I think in. In much of. Of my work, and I actually am going to publish an article this week or next on. On this. A lot of what I've noticed is that there's. There's a. There's a scale, right? If you imagine all the way over on the right is passivity. So you're just completely passive and you're not really taking action and you're sort of waiting for permission, often from other people around what to do. And then all the way on the left is dominating. And that's kind of what I think our culture presents as masculine or masculinity is dominating, right? Do it this way. It's my way or the highway. You know, I'm. I'm in charge, right? And there's not a lot there. There isn't a lot of other. There aren't a lot of other demonstrations of what else there is. But the third way is right in between those. So, for example, I would like to take you out on Friday. This is what I would like to do. How does that sound? How does that feel for you? There's. There is direction and there's also invitation. And I think that's really what healthy polarity can be. And that's not just about asking for a date. It's also, you know, in relationship saying, I'm noticing that we haven't been as connected lately. I would like to go to brunch on Sunday and have a real discussion about what's going on with us. How does that sound to you? That is also polarizing, right? There is a. It generates polarity because you are creating a frame for someone to step into. So you're holding alpha in that moment, and then they can flow in omega. So, yeah, I just wanted to sort of mention that because I think that that quote by that client, it sort of gets to the heart of it, which is it's, it's not about the externals, it's not about the car that I drive. It's not about the trappings of masculinity. It's really about being able to be direct and take charge and, you know, invite. So I think that that's something that is sometimes missed in, in the conversation is that I think part of the value and the positives around polarity work is that it isn't, like you said, about the roles or the trappings. It's about the energies. It's about the, the, the actual lived actions that we're taking with each other and the energies that we're holding with each other. And, and instead of what, what I look like, like how, how my hair is done, you know, whether I can cook, whether you can, you know, make the money, right, it, it is, it is separate from the roles, the gender roles. And like I said, we all are still coming with biases, but I think that's an important point to make. Okay, so problem two with polarity is that it can make it seem like the man must always be in his alpha in order to be qu. In relationship. This is probably the one that I hear the most from from clients. Learning about polarity or trying to navigate polarity is like, I gotta be, you know, I gotta be in my alpha all the time. And then the, the concern that comes along with that is, wow, that first of all, that's a lot of work. It takes a lot of presence to be in alpha. And I, you know, I don't know that I'm able to do that all the time. And, you know, can you speak a little bit to what you've heard, you know, either from our clients or in your men's group around. Am I doing it right? Am I doing, am I doing this right if I'm not an alpha all the time?
Jason Lange: Yeah, there's a lot of fear for men that, oh my God, does this mean I have to do that all the time? Which comes with very easily, can come with a sense of burden and exhaustion. And it's true. Literally, like we associate with alpha and, and whatnot. Holding space, it's an active process to hold, to hold your awareness on something, to hold the structure, whatever that mean it takes something. It's not just I'm here and that has an energy expenditure, right? That takes something and it can be fatiguing. And it's why no one can do it 100% of the time, all the time. And there is, you know, this kind of oftentimes when people learn about things, we learn about something and it's like we universalize it. So we like, oh, it has to be this way all the time, just out of excitement. And then we, like, want to tell everyone we know about it. Like, this is the way it is. And that happens in polarity too. And so a lot of men I talk to, yeah, they, they frankly, they get tired and sometimes they get resentful of like, oh, does this mean I always have to be making the plan? I always have to be making the date? Sometimes I don't want to. Right. Or do I always have to be the one initiating sex? And that can build up in men if they don't feel like they're given an opportunity or have space to not always be holding it, or if they're not appreciated for the holding they do. That's. That's a real thing. And then, you know, just right along with this. Yes, some men will take it as, oh, I have to be this way all the time. Or some couples will take this as every single moment has to be polarized. And that is just not what I have found useful in my life. And with a lot of the clients we've worked with, it's more. This is the capacity we in toolkit we want to have on hand so we know how to shift the energy in a moment if we want to make it more erotic, let's say, or more connected sexually and something like that. But all the majority of life does not need to be polarized. The majority of life really is we're two adults just trying to survive in the world. And sometimes we just want to sit on the couch together, that's totally fine. The problem is, if that's the only thing you do, that's where couples also get into trouble. So you don't have to hold this all the time as men. And I will tell you, I'm pretty convinced these days, most men that come into our sphere, it's usually one of two areas that is actually where they need to do the most work. For some men, yeah, it's holding. More structure, more go, more agency, more presence, all those alpha attributes. But for just as many men, it's your edge is none of that. Your edge is just to relax and soften your body and get enough sleep and have some fun. It's not about cultivating more alpha attributes. It's about cultivating the other side. That actually is what's going to allow you to be even more present and human, in a sense. And it's really pretty striking. Like usually it's one of the two sides. A man needs to sharpen up a little bit. But it's just as challenging for a lot of guys to start to self care, to tend to slow down, to rest, to not always be and go. And beyond the world of polarity. Yeah, we just get fed this narrative. You always got to be, you know, to be a successful man, you got to push, push, push, push, push. And that's just not the case. The, you know, the men I trust the most in the world actually are extraordinarily fluid. Their capacity for being in their more Omega state and restorative state is just as powerful as their capacity for being an Alpha. Go. Leading, owning the room, whatever. And it's their ability to move back and forth. The fluidity, the, the, their capacity for fluidity to either go to the extremes or wherever they need to be in the moment. That's the real power of this work.
Melanie Curtin: I think that's a great point. And I think as a woman who does, you know, who is attracted to men and who has dated men, I can say, you know, I'm thinking of a relationship that I left in part because yeah, he wasn't holding alpha enough. Meaning he wasn't sort of putting his attention on me, curious about me. He wasn't kind of leading conversations about like, hey, how's it going with us? Where's this going? How are you feeling? He wasn't driving things forward in any way. And then I can also think of a relationship that I left because he wasn't able to drop into Omega in many ways. Right. He wasn't able to open his heart, he wasn't able to soften. He wasn't able to be, be in flow, be in flow, have fun, be playful. Openness, play, you know, playfulness. I was sort of like, I, I want to be met in that, you know, and I want to, I want a partner who can, who is open, who is open, who is available, who is willing to be moved by life, who has a certain capacity for joy and for fun and for excitement and for effervescence. And there is, I believe, like you said, the advanced version of, of these concepts is to be able to hold both and to do what the moment calls for, to be able to do both and to be able to choose and to do what the moment calls for. So some moments call for being an Omega. I'm thinking about, I'm thinking about celebrating at a wedding. There's silly songs on. You're dancing around you're just, you're in flow, you're having fun, you're willing to be moved and to move. And like I said that that relationship that I, that I ended, he didn't have a lot of that capacity. There wasn't a lot of capacity for joy. It was kind of like he'd probably sit on the side, he'd maybe dance bit, but not really loosening up and being embodied and, and in flow was really challenging versus, you know, holding alpha all the time. So there is something about being able to flow between them and both, both parties in a relationship being able to flow between them and understanding. Like you said that sometimes it's going to generate polarity, right? It's going to generate some sexual heat to choose to hold Alpha in that moment. And here's a quote from one of our guys. This is the answer to, again, what do you find useful about it? He said, before understanding polarity, I wasn't sure how to lead a manto interaction. Giving women more praise in subtle ways helps them grow. Also bringing more energy and not just coming all from the heart. There needs to either be some physical touch depending on the setting in place, or some good buildup of expressing a desire or intention behind what you're communicating. Also having an awareness of what you are noticing and most important, being present, which means great eye contact and having only one tab up in your brain, which is your attention on her and helping her feel seen as if you were seeing it in yourself. I think that's a great description of, you know, so what I'm hearing, part of what he's saying is I didn't really know how to do it before. Now at least I know how to do it. And I'm imagining this man on a date night knowing, okay, I'm putting my attention on her. I am intentionally slowing down, deepening my breath, feeling my feet on the ground, putting my attention on her eye contact, getting curious about her, like zeroing in on her. This is where my attention is. And when a man does that, like, I can feel it. I can feel it, you know, whether we've been together for a long time or not. I'm like, ooh, shivers. Like I can feel the presence. I can feel that alpha energy being directed at me. And what happens, I'm like, oh, like I get a little giggly, right? I feel a little bit, you know, softer. I, I do, I drop into a different kind of space. So there's, there's more of an awareness. I think that the best parts of polarity work can be. There's more of an awareness around why certain things work and why certain things don't. Versus that same guy on date night. Kind of distracted, looking around. Not really. That present doesn't really have a sense of, you know, he's conversing with her, but he's not really focused on her. And he's not necessarily curious. He's not putting attention on her feelings or her heart or, you know, her softness or helping to elicit some of that from her. What's really on her heart, not necessarily what she's thinking about, but what's on her heart. Then he's kind of distracted. He's looking around, he gets in the car. And there's not a lot of charge, you know, like they're going home from date night and there's not a lot of charge. And it's kind of like, well, I don't really know why, you know, I want to have sex tonight, but I haven't really, you know, I don't know, maybe she'll be open to it, maybe she won't, but you can feel the difference, right? It's understanding why these things work. And it's a lot easier when you know why they work to work them. Any comments on that?
Jason Lange: Yeah, I think for a lot of guys we work with, it's empowering, right? It's. It's removing some mystery from why do some things work and why do they not? Or. And suddenly, oh, I have a lot more control than I thought. And that's liberating in a sense to know that, okay, I can. I know how to bring my A game. So if something doesn't work out, I'm like, oh, I showed up. And that feels way better than, I don't know, should I have done something different? Which can just eat a lot of men alive, that constant self doubt. And these aren't, you know, the, the amazing thing about some of these tools from Polarity is they're not extraordinarily complex things to understand. You can learn most of it in a couple hours. In a sense, it's the embodiment, it's the practice of it. That's the work. But once we, you know, I think again, why a lot of men we've worked with find these tools really useful is it's like, oh, I've always kind of just wanted to know the instruction manual to kind of understand, because then I can really throw myself into something. But the instruction manual we're given is pretty subpar on how to have good relationships these days. And the models most of us have had were just totally insufficient. So it's like, oh, I want something and I have no idea how to create that. This is one of the tools in the toolkit for how to create that. And when men experience that or women or just really anyone, it's like, ah, okay. It makes it a lot easier. It can.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah. This is from another one of our men. I was actually asking, this is the second question of where have you felt like there. Something's been off when it came to polarity or what are some issues? And he said, actually, nothing feels off to me about it, and nothing feels off to me about it at all in my current two and a half year relationship. I think the reason is it's a regular topic of conversation for us. We know where each other stands and it feels completely natural and right to us. We're aligned on how we connect, how the energies create the polarity and the importance of polarity to attraction. When we talk to people who follow the everyone is the same approach that seems to be so popular these days, we mostly hear a lot of frustration and disappointment. There's no polarity which kills attraction. So, yeah, again, I think regardless of the sexes or genders of the people involved, there is something about, there is something universal about, about this concept of duality and polarity and things being in opposition without being in conflict, things being in opposition without being conflict, being in conflict. And one of the, one of the ways that we can think about this is Alpha is often observing and Omega is being observed. There's something about being observed that can be really exciting, right? It's like performers, performers love to be observed. And there's something sacred about the audience. So in, when you're looking, when you're watching a play or you're watching a performance, you are holding the alpha energy, you are holding the attention, the gaze, and then the performers are holding Omega. And one of the things that has come up as an issue with polarity is this idea of always being in that role. Right. We're coming back to that. Always being an Alpha, always being an Omega. And I think that, that there's something missing there. So I'll give you an example. One of the. One of our clients, I was having a talk with him about it and I think that he has felt really missed in, in the conversation because he's like, I want to hold Omega a lot of the time, you know, like you describe, you describe holding Omega and I'm like, I want that experience, right? I want to relax into my Flow. I want someone to hold space for me. I want to be held and I want to be observed or I want to be, you know, in that role. And I think in, in, in a lot of relationships we can go back and forth between these and there, and that's healthy. And a lot of the times It'll be an 80, 20 thing, right? Like 80% of the time I'm the observer. 20% of the time I'm the observed, or vice versa, Whichever, whichever poll you're holding. I'll give you a quick example of this. And we, we talked about this on past episodes about plan making, right? Who makes the plan? What is the plan? Is there a plan? And whoever is suggesting the plan, making the plan, that person is holding Alpha. And for a lot of guys, you know, to your point, one of the complaints or one of the concerns I've heard before is, shit, am I going to have to make all the plans all the time to, to be an Alpha? No, you're not, you're not going to have to do that, but you are going to have to make some of the plans some of the time. And I think, especially towards the beginning of a dating relationship, I want to know as woman that you are capable of doing that, that you can step into that role, that you are able to, because then I can relax and, you know, reciprocate. So I'll give you an example. I was dating a guy and I said, hey, I want to take you on a date on Friday. Are you free? And he said, sure. And I said, great, I think we should leave. We're going to take public transportation. We'll leave your place around five, Dress just fancy, like dress up, dress in something nice. And he was super excited about this. He loved that it was a surprise. He loved that he got to be on an adventure, got to follow, follow my lead. And one of my other friends had gifted me two tickets to the ballet. So we went to the ballet and then we got drinks after. It was really nice, really nice evening. And I think that's just one example of, I was happy to provide that. I was happy to give him that experience in part because, you know, he had given me some experiences like that. So I knew that he was capable of holding Alpha. I knew that I, that he was capable of doing it. And I also know that I'm capable of doing it. I think that often what, what we have found, particularly with nice guys, is that they haven't necessarily been able to hold that poll before or this is something that I wanted to speak to briefly. They are demoralized because they had been trying to hold that, that role in a relationship and they were shamed for it, or they were put down or they were denigrated in some way. They, they, they got burned. Basically. There was a woman who they were partnered with who didn't appreciate their lead, didn't appreciate their. Yeah, their leadership or their planning. She would either complain or she would criticize. And when that happened enough, you know, it shut him down. And so he became this other version of himself that was a lot more passive, a lot more, I want to say the word laid back. That's not what I mean. Passive shutdown. I think you get the idea. And so we've worked with a lot of men where they're coming back from that and they're learning now how to step into Alpha and kind of re. Engage with that part of themselves and trust that, yes, their last partner wasn't able to meet them there, but there are going to be women who will. And I think that's something that is also kind of leads into our, the third problem. But do you have any comments on that, that particular issue? Because it has come up several times.
Jason Lange: Yeah, I think, you know, whoever you are, if you're holding Alpha, one of the things that gives us the fuel to do that is appreciation. And so it's really hard to keep holding that and trying if we never get any kind of reciprocity of energy, which tends to come through appreciation. So if a partner is unwilling or unable to open to our leadership or never appreciates us for it, it will actually grind us down, whoever we are. And at some point we may feel resentful and not want to do it anymore. So then we can easily kind of slip out of gear into just more of a neutral, passive kind of place because it's like, well, I tried that before and it didn't do me any good, so why would I try that again? And that's a tender place to come to, come back from and to start to unwind. That, oh, that was. Maybe that specific person wasn't a good fit. There are other people who are going to be super grateful for even poor leadership. Right. Even if it doesn't go well, even if it's not perfect, just like, wow, I really appreciate how hard you tried there or how much energy you put into that. And that appreciation for whoever's holding Alpha tends to go such a long way. Just, hey, I see you're doing something. Thank you.
Melanie Curtin: That's a great way of putting it. I Think that's something that I've a strength of mine in relationship is appreciating and naming. When a man leads, even if he leads poorly, like you said, I recently had a man reach out and say, do you want to do something sometime? And I was like, yeah, yeah, I do. And it was like, it didn't need to be perfect. It didn't need to be perfectly phrased. It wasn't, you know, it. But what I appreciated was that he reached out to me. He reached out to me, he came towards me, he indicated interest, he asked. Right. And then, yes, he actually did propose a more concrete plan once I said yes, I would. But I really, I think I. I think I'm pretty good at naming and. Yeah, just naming and highlighting how much I do appreciate when a man come towards. Comes towards me and when he makes an effort. And I, you know, in relationship, I have often reiterated to men that have brought something up, saying, I really appreciate that you were the one to bring this. This thing up. You know, this was a hard topic for us, and I appreciate that you said, I want to speak to this. And I just, I think there's something really brave about leading. That's the truth. Leading is vulnerable, and it's one of the reasons why it's hard. Leading is vulnerable, and that's why it's hard. Sounds obvious, but I. I think that I do deeply appreciate men who are willing to. To lead and to go there. And one of the advantages, as we talk about in our program a lot, is that not every woman is going to be able to follow your lead. And the fastest way to figure out if she will follow your lead is to lead. To lead. Lead and see what happens. Lead and see how she responds. Lead and see whether you are appreciated or whether, you know, she feels appreciation or she expresses appreciation for. Of you. For you. I wanted to include one last. One last quote from this particular topic, which is this person was responding to the. What are some issues or problems that you found with it? And he said, I guess the thing about polarity that I recognize more than anything is there's many confounding factors. I described factors that had a strong situation, a strong influence on my situation. And the bottom line is we didn't really handle the stresses of COVID in a new marriage very well. I also recognize that you have to have a partner that is interested in nurturing the relationship. One of the things that I'm not fully sure how truly affects this is the longer the relationship is together, do some of the things that change. Do some of the things that charge polarity actually change? We all grow and change. Sometimes that growth changes dynamically as well. It seems easier to have polarity in a new relationship and much harder to maintain over time. Although I do get that it seems that some of the basic concepts are the same whether you've known each other for 20 days or 20 years. And I just wanted to throw that in there because yes, it often feels like it's harder to maintain polarity over time. There's a lot of natural polarity that happens early on in a relationship and then later on you have to cultivate it. You have to be willing to kind of water the garden. Right. And that's part of why we talk about polarity so much. Because we want to support healthy, successful, dynamic, sexy long term relationships. And knowing about these concepts and how to. I was going to say the word wield like, wield like power can really help, right? Can really help. And I, as someone who likes to hold omega in, in relationship, learning to soften my body, open myself, reveal my heart, hold that position. I am engaged as well. This isn't just all on the person holding alpha right? In a relationship, both sides, both parties can generate polarity. And the best circumstances are when we are both doing it, when we're both showing up for the conversation we're both showing up for, for the relationship. Any quick comments on that? And I have one more in this section.
Jason Lange: Yeah, I just, I, I kind of talk about this as the relationship inversion point, but any relationship starts with a certain preloaded amount of charge and then it wears off over time in that moment, the end of the honeymoon period, whatever you want to call it, a year and a half in hormones change. That's when polarity becomes the most important because then you have to have the tools to consciously generate it ongoing.
Melanie Curtin: These are. There are just two more responses I wanted to include here in this particular section. This first one is. He says sometimes it feels like the expectation is that as a man I am supposed to be stoic, unmovable, never showing weakness, that any sign of that would be ruining the polarity. I don't want to have to be James Bond in order to attract a woman. If I have lost a bit of my masculine polarity within a relationship, can I get it back? So that was his response. And I think that that's a pretty poignant way of saying, you know, I do I have to be. Do I just. Do I have to cut off a part of myself? Do I have to never be in Omega in order to be in a healthy relationship. No. The answer is no. I hold space for men when I am in relationship with them. You are supposed to also have that involved. And you are also supposed to have other places where you can drop into Omega, such as a men's group, a therapist, good mentors. You know, there are supposed to be other places where you are able to fall apart or be really emotional. Yes. You are supposed to be able to do that with your partner. And you are also supposed to have other outlets. And I think one of the things that often gets lost is that for a lot of men in, in the modern world, their. Their partner is the only place where they are able to drop into Omega, and that is problematic. Okay, this. Okay. The last problem with the polarity frame is that sometimes it can come off as well. Basically, it's an imperfect map. So there's always a bit of the map map maker in the map. And one of the things that we've talked about before is third stage relating. And again, I'll drop in the show notes if you're not familiar with that, but if you are, you'll know about this, which is that Alpha is supposed to hold Omega in her feminine storm. And sometimes this can make it seem like you're just supposed to take a bunch of shit and a bunch of abuse, and that's your role and that's what it means to hold Alpha. And that is problematic. That is not a good frame. And here's one quote from one of our men about it. And then I'd love to hear your thoughts, Jason. He says there have been instances, particularly in the past few years, where I had serious mental health problems and felt like I got thrown to the dogs. There was no meaningful support for these sorts of things for men because men who experience instability are universally known to be weaklings and failures. I've also experienced severe emotional abuse from women to the point where it's hard for me to discern between healthy feminine and borderline personality disorder traits or. Or narcissistic personality disorder traits. So any comments on that?
Jason Lange: Oh, tons on this one. So a couple of things here. One, the borderline narcissism at the first stage can look a lot like third stage relating. And the confusion between the two causes a lot of problems in the polarity world. Seen it time and time again. And there's actually a polarity of that, as I say, is, do women really want to be with jerks? No. I don't know a single woman who would say, yes, I want to be With a jerk. The thing is stage one, directionality of I go for what I want has direction to it. Just like stage three, I'm bringing direction to the relationship does as well. What's driving that directionality is totally different on the interiors, but on the outside it feels like, oh, this is a man who's in his power and moves towards what he wants. And so that's attractive to. To a certain extent. Right. So this, this problem is so real. And I think it's one of the things. You've done a great job on your show. It's starting to kind of bring some light to that. Yeah. Polarity is excuse for abusive behavior by anyone on any side of things. And true stage three, relating is this is. There's a little irony here, but it's never always. So it never means you always have to do this as a woman or as the Omega or you always have to do this as the alpha or the man or whatever that might be. It is more about we can both do it all. And so in a given moment we can choose to do something which is very different than the earlier level stuff. And how this ties into, you know, there's always a bit of the map maker in the map is every system, every modality is, you know, tends to be structured by someone who interprets these universal principles in some sense through their own bodily lived experience. And interpreting that part of their perspective always gets embedded. And so this is a deeper philosophical thing. But it's true here for a lot of people, their experience of polarity. Not everyone here in the west comes through David Data. And he's one man who interpreted these things in his way. I think they're genius. I'm grateful to be part of his lineage. And there's limitations in that because he's still a human being. So some of what his personal experiences are get mapped on there. And I think a little bit of this stuff gets mix up in there in terms of. It can be really easy for people that read the way the superior manned me, oh, I have to hold space no matter what. Whatever fire she's bringing at me. And that's totally not the case. There is absolutely a place for boundaries and there is an absolutely a place to step out of polarity and just be like, no, this doesn't feel good to me, regardless of what it does for our attraction or whatever that might be. And this is just something I've seen a lot, right? These manifestations of this idea that, yeah, no map is perfect. And these are useful concepts that need to be lightly held until they're not useful anymore. Right. So it's like, okay, again, like an 80, 20 principle. Here is often the case where just a 20 understanding and application of this stuff gets us 80% of the results. It doesn't have to be this rigid thing we're always doing. And it's important to know and to explore and to absorb these energies from other teachers, including teachers other than us. I have my own personal biases and manifestations of this work. You do too. We're not the end all, be all, say all. Neither are the creators of a lot of this work. And the more you can get exposed to, the more you can start to see that, oh yeah, from another viewpoint, what's actually okay over here maybe isn't okay. And I need to be aware of that. And it's just a, it's an important thing to really just be aware of as you go into this. Because again, when we learn something new and excited, there's this developmental capacity of we want to make it true all the time and spread it to the whole world. And it's useful. And that's where it kind of needs to live in. Oh, this is useful for me in my relationships. And if I hold to it too, with too much rigidity, it becomes a dogma and it doesn't become useful anymore. And in my interpretations of this work, I have to realize that it's. No one's expression of it is ever going to be perfect. There's always going to be mistakes.
Melanie Curtin: Yes. And I think the place that we'll wrap it here is that even with its flaws, we have seen tremendous growth in our clients. We have seen relationships get repolarized that had reverse polarity going on. We've seen closeness and intimacy and trust be built through polarity practices with couples. And there is a lot of good here. And it's, it's a, it's. It's not everything. It's something valuable. It's not everything. And it can be really, really helpful. So if you got something out of this or if you have any comments or questions, you can get [email protected] and if you're interested in working with us on polarity within your couple or as an individual, you can always go to evolutionary Men Apply.
