296: What does it actually mean to step into your power? | Dear Men

Melanie Curtin: Hi, everyone. Happy Valentine's Day week. It was just a few days ago, but I wanted to say Happy Valentine's Day. And I wanted to dedicate this episode to love and to power and to the two working together. And I think we have a cool example of that. This week, I want to shout out my client and longtime listener Adam Barnes, who stepped into his power and asked if he could record music for the podcast. So this week we are using his music. If you like it, you can listen to him at AcousticPro prime on Spotify. Again, that's Acoustic prime. And if you have a podcast or you have something else that you need music for, you can reach out to him about that. So, yeah, I just. I felt really happy that you reached out, Adam, and that you stepped into your power and your creativity in creating this beautiful music. And I think that that's a testament to. The ways that we exercise power in the world are many fold, but one of the biggest ways we exercise it is just by speaking up, by stating what we want, by sharing what we want and seeing if there's a yes. So this episode is dedicated to love and to creativity and to power, all working together for a cohesive whole. And with no further ado, here is the music and the episode. Hello. Welcome back to another episode with Jason Lange. So glad to have you.

Jason Lange: Glad to be back.

Melanie Curtin: So today we're talking about what does it actually mean to step into your power as a man? And I don't think that there's necessarily a difference between, you know, stepping into your power as a man, as a woman, as a non binary person. You know, it's. There's a lot of the. A lot of the same principles apply. And this is a podcast for people who identify as men primarily. And so I wanted to kind of just state that up front that, that is, that is part of what we're talking about. And there are definitely differences in the ways that this presents, how we think about power, what we do with our power. I do think that our culture has some weird things around power. Yeah. So I guess I just wanted to say that up front. And part of the reason that I really felt inspired to do this episode is because, you know, in our work with our clients, I would say a lot of our clients identify as nice guys or have traits of nice guy syndrome, which we've covered extensively on the podcast. And I will also drop a few nice guy episodes in the show notes in case that's relevant for you. And, you know, I've talked about the heart Cock Matrix before, on, on the podcast and how generally there are sort of two archetypes of men, right? There are the men who are more closed off, shut down. They might, you know, get, get dates or be able to quote, unquote, succeed with women, sort of, but they're not able to open their heart. And so they, their, their spiritual journey is around opening their heart primarily, not necessarily owning their power. And then there's the nice guy archetype who sometimes will get friend zoned, maybe doesn't feel assertive in his sexual energy, sometimes will get first dates, but not second dates, or has trouble generating polarity, that kind of thing. And for that man, his spiritual journey is often owning his power. And we work with a lot of those guys and we see pretty incredible transformations around a man going from not being in his power to stepping into his power. And I kind of wanted to just create an episode about that. And so a lot of this episode, in a lot of this episode, you're going to hear from our actual graduates, our clients, in their words, how they've stepped into their power, what that means to them, etc, because I really wanted to provide examples, concrete examples of what this means, because I think sometimes in the conversation it's sort of like, what does that mean, stepping into your power? Right? Like, what does that actually mean on a day to day level? So, and I'm curious, you know, we're going to hear from our clients, we'll sprinkle them in. But I, I would love to hear from you, Jason, about your journey of feeling. I would, I'd argue, pretty disempowered for a lot of your 20s to doing men's work, doing basically doing personal growth work and stepping into your power for you. What did that mean?

Jason Lange: Yeah. Say the first step for me was getting into my body and getting connected to myself just very simply was probably the most foundational change I started to make in my twenties. And then once in my body, I was able to be more attuned to what I wanted. And then as I knew what I wanted and as I got resourced in community, I had the means and abilities to take risks to move towards it. And, you know, that would be kind of my definition. And you and I have talked about this a few times on our calls in the show of, you know, one way I like to think about power now is the ability to identify what we want and move towards it. Or another way to think about that is to own our truth and take action on its behalf, whatever that is. And as more of a nice Guy, you know, for me, where I often wasn't truthful or wasn't able to move towards what I wanted, you know, for me was specifically around sex and women, and I'm attracted to you. I want to touch you, I'm attracted to you. I want to be close to you, I'm attracted to you, I want to spend time with you. And instead of being forward about that, you know, it kind of came out in the sideways. I want to spend time with you, but I'm not really asking for what I want or being clear about it, and then I'm not getting what I want. So then I get weird and then the energy gets weird and then it goes all awry. But for me, it really did start with particularly, I would say, not only connected to my body, but getting access to my emotional body, and from there becoming more deeply attuned to my desires. I think it's another frame for this too. For a lot of men, it's just being connected to your desire and feeling empowered to take action on it, whether or not you get it, so to speak. But there's. Oh, okay, I. I move towards that. And so for me, I was in a pretty disempowered place in many ways throughout my life. And, you know, it's still a journey I'm on of, you know, discovering what that means for me. And it's shown up in a lot of ways in the last year of, you know, getting much better at setting boundaries. You know, this is going to sound a little crazy, but one place I do feel way more in my power is I'm happy to interrupt people now in a way I did not used to, you know, I. Getting, man, I remember when I was just out of college, you know, I got it. I got one of those phone calls back from like, a salesperson for, like, magazines or. I have no idea. And just inability to say no to anything. I, like, defaulted into signing up for some stupid thing I didn't want. That was really hard and annoying to cancel. But back then it was so edgy for me to, like, say like, no goodbye. You know, Like, I. I did not have that capacity in me at the time. And now I'm very happy to say no goodbye or, you know, in. In loving ways, too, with people. I'm like, hey, I want to stop you right there. Because I actually want to guide us towards what we're really focused on here. And that's been far more empowering for me.

Melanie Curtin: I think that's such a perfect, concrete example, though, that you gave of staying on the phone for too long, giving your precious energy and attention to someone that you don't feel called to actually be with. That's such a great example of what we're talking about, though. It, you know, it sounds like a small thing, but it's actually a large thing to be able to guide your life in some way. Right? To me, part of power is being able to guide. Being able to guide. So whether it's a person or your own self. And this was one of the. One of the responses from one of our clients. We said, when you think about power, what do you think about? And this man said, for me, stepping into my power is all about giving myself permission. Permission to have needs, to have desires, to have an opinion, to stand for what I believe to speak, to take up space, to claim what is mine, to make mistakes, to fail, and to succeed. And I know that that's a small example that you gave of, you know, interrupting someone and saying, no, I don't want that. But that is giving yourself permission to take up space and to have needs and to have to essentially put yourself first. Right. It's like, that's such a great example of, you know, what is the polite thing? Oh, well, this person called me. Therefore they have a right to my attention. Or it's rude to interrupt people, or, you know, the stories that come along with, you know, don't be a nice guy. Don't take up too much space. Don't, don't, don't. What's the word? Put people out. Don't put. Don't put me. Don't put someone out. Right. It's like their needs always matter more than yours. And I think that's something that I've seen a lot in our clients is the shift. It's almost like a Polaroid coming into focus of, wow, my needs do matter. I matter. And that changes everything. That sort of perspective changes everything. Yeah. Oh, go ahead. You first.

Jason Lange: I. I just love that frame because, you know, I think another way I can talk about that experience of getting connected to my body and, you know, certainly how we work with our clients around power, a strange way to think about this is really just the ability to stay connected to yourself. So when I've been out of my power in relationships or in the world, it's when I actually lose connection to myself, right? And so I. I fall into other people's desires or wants or their energy or whatever that might be. And a big part of what we work with men on is increasing our capacity to stay connected to self in the face of conflict or discomfort or confrontation or sometimes just, you know, differing desires. Right. For a lot of times, sometimes nice guys are like, oh, hey, I want this. And then someone's like, oh, that doesn't work for me. Okay. Right. And then it's just like, boom, We've totally lost touch with self. So I just. I've never quite phrased it that way before, but a big part of power is just the ability to stay connected to self, no matter. No matter what.

Melanie Curtin: That's a great way of putting it. And I appreciate that, you naming that part about being able to be with what I want and being able to be with what you want without caving right away. So if those differ. Right. You want to go away this weekend? I need to rest. I don't want to go away this weekend. How do we stay in touch with ourselves, our own desires, and not make the other person wrong? Right. You're not wrong for wanting to go away this weekend, and I'm not wrong for needing to rest and staying in that space, not caving right away. Well, okay. I mean, yeah, let's. Let's go away. No, you said you wanted to, like, we'll just do it. It's fine. Not. Not doing that. Learning how to hold tension, essentially, because that can be a point of tension for people. Breathe, stay with self and allow whatever's going to happen next to happen. So you don't have to rush it. You don't have to, you know, figure it out right away. In a. In a circumstance like that, you can allow something to emerge. And I think this is not what this episode is about, but I think that's a great example of the difference between dominating and leading. Dominating is it's going to be my way. Like, we're going away this weekend or we're staying. And then passive. The passive response is, Is to cave. Right? The passive response is to just, okay, yeah, no, we'll. We'll go away this weekend because you want to. And, you know, we've. I know that you've been wanting this for a while and whatever leading is, I'm hearing that you really want to go away this weekend, and that would provide you with sense of adventure and fun. And I'm really wanting to stay in and rest and recuperate. And I'd love for us to just. Just pause here for a moment, and then I'd really like to hear from each of us about more about what we're wanting, like, what would. What would fulfill that. And maybe there's Another way that we can both get our needs met. That's an example, just one example of leading, which is eliciting the other person's truth and being with our truth at the same time and then seeing what happens from there and not trying to rush something or force something or have something happen too quickly, but just allowing, allowing. And I think that when we think about leading in our culture, we often think about dominating versus allowing. And allowing is different from passive passivity. It's not. Allowing is not just leaning back and doing nothing. There's a quality of listening and of presence and of, yeah, quiet power. Right? You can't lead without being in your power. You have to be connected to self like you, you're saying in order to lead, to lead. Well, so I guess I just wanted to name that as a great example of not something we tend to think about when we think about power. But that's such a perfect example. I wanted to read one of the responses that I think is, is a. Is a good description of how I think some of us do think about power. This man says, for so long, I viewed power as a zero sum proposition. You either wield power over someone or they have power over you. During my marriage, I could not exercise much power over my wife. So I resigned myself to a life of subjugation. It was easier to just let her control everything and not assert much agency, let alone power. This worked for a while, but eventually blew up in my face. I reached the point where the surrender of power deleted my sense of self. I lost the ability to assert needs, let alone wants. Since my marriage ended in 2020, I have been working to figure out how to stand in my own power without asserting power over someone else. The Pillars course and your podcasts have taught me that I can embody power without exercising any dominion or control over a romantic partner. My current relationship is developing in that mold. I now feel comfortable stating my vision for what we should do and how things should be, then asking how she feels about it. So we both stand in our own respective power. My power derives from expressing, not suppressing, my desires. Her power exists because I don't dictate whether my desires need to be met. I invite her to decide while making it clear what I want. I found that to be really, really engaging that response because there's something about the way he's describing it of, you know, when we talk about nice guys and we talk about sort of holding back, there's a lot of holding back, right? In nice guy syndrome, there's a lot of holding back, whether that's sexually or, you know, wanting to ask someone out or asserting oneself at work. There's just a lot of holding back and suppressing. So that word suppressing really jumped out at me versus I'm expressing what I want. And I'm not going to make you wrong if you're a no. Right. I'm not going to throw a tantrum. I'm not going to become a man child just because I don't get what I want. But I am going to state what I want. Right? I am going to state what I want. I'm going to share my vision, I'm going to take up space, I'm going to share an opinion and then I'm going to ask you how you feel about it or I'm, you know, whatever the context is. And I'm curious if that has been something that has been part of your world as well in relationship of how you have led differently when you weren't in your power. Like maybe you can speak to that a little bit. And then what it felt like when you were in your power in relationship.

Jason Lange: And trust in self. You know, I think that's a big one we've seen with a lot of guys is okay, I, I gotta believe in myself that I can find something that's more in alignment or more honoring of me. And it's, it's so powerful when we see men stepping into that and.

Melanie Curtin: You.

Jason Lange: Know, to a shocking extent sometimes the other thing it just reminds me of is how often not always, but how more often than people and men we work with expect, they kind of end up getting what they want. It's just like, oh, I. I never thought to even ask for it at work. Right. I remember one of our clients last year had a very stressful job that would get really intense one part of the year, and he realized, like, oh, I need breaks. And so he just flat out was like, here's the new thing I need when. When I go on vacations, I need to not be, like, overbooked when I get back. And his work totally met him in it because I wanted him to be happy and more valuable and stay. And, like, he brought so much to the organization, but he was super clear. He's like, I never would even thought to ask for that last year. I would have just done what the company needed or what his clients needed. And that was a level of, well, I believe what I need is powerful. And the part here that is also, I think, worth remembering is that stepping into our power isn't always even just about us getting what we want, but it's about us being able to support others around us fully. If we're not advocating for ourselves, oftentimes we can't. Right. We're not resourced enough to keep up or do what we need, whether that's leaving a relationship or renegotiating a job or whatever that might be.

Melanie Curtin: That's a really good point that you just made about, you know, being in your power as a man is part of what resources you. It's part of what brings you energy and vitality. And, you know, this. I remember seeing Tim Ferriss at South by Southwest, and he said something. He was like a keynote or something. And he. He's. Someone said, what are you. What are you doing in your life right now? Or what are you adding to your life right now that's bringing you energy or something like that? And he said, honestly, for me, right now, it's all about taking things away. It's about trimming. It's not about adding. It's not about more. It's about. And I think that's, you know, one of the. One of the exercises in our program has to do with this. You know, I won't go into all the details, but sort of you outline all of the things that are pulling your attention and you evaluate them, right. Am I doing these things out of obligation? What can I trim? What would help me to trim? And that's incredibly powerful. It's sort of like pruning a garden or weeding a garden and you get more life force, you get more vitality. And I want to make a couple of points here about power in relationships. So there are. It's not just about, you know, stepping into your power. Being in your power and stepping into your power obviously affects romantic relationship in positive ways. And this was one of the examples that a man gave. He said, I have been able to tell my wife how much it means to me when she initiates sex or tells me when she is feeling sexy. I tell her that I find her sexy and it fuels my own desire in a way that she likes too. When she does this, I'm going to pause there. There's more to this share but I think this is incredibly important because there's a virtuous cycle here that's happening right where he is stepping into his power by owning his sexuality and saying, I love it when you initiate. I love that you initiated last night. I loved what you. I loved what you wore. I love the song that you put on whatever it was that she, that she did. And what is that going to do? That's positive reinforcement, right? She's going to feel good about herself. She's probably going to do it more. But if a man isn't in his power sometimes, even if he's enjoying something, he's not going to talk about it, right? If he's holding shame around sex or sexuality, even if he's liking something, he's not going to, he's not going to speak to it because there's, there's, there's stuff. He's got stuff. And I'm doing this sort of contracted thing with my shoulders. You can't see me, but it's like, oh, I don't, you know, I don't really want to talk about it. Or like, it makes me kind of uncomfortable. Versus, like, yeah, I loved that. That was really fun. I loved that. I loved you initiating sex. And then the balance of his share is. I also used to rely more I also used to rely more on detailing how exhausted I am from work and housework, hoping that it would result in her taking something off my plate. Sometimes it would and sometimes it wouldn't. And when it wouldn't, I would feel some resentment. Much better to simply ask for what I need without trying so hard to justify it or without a covert contract. So making things explicit and actually asking directly, you know, would you be willing to take out the recycling tonight? Versus like, oh, I had such a hard day and all this stuff happened, which is really, you're, you're trying to get her to take out the recycling without asking directly for that.

Jason Lange: Totally the more passive and indirect style. I mean, that's another way this has been showing up for me is, you know, just being more direct. Right. About. About what I want or what I'm noticing or what I'm feeling. And, you know, the, the energy we. I certainly am now more and more associating with people, whether it's myself or men or women I'm around that I experience is powerful. Is there is a level of direct to them. Right. Speaking right to the heart of whatever it is, not sanding the edges or passively ask for. Asking for it, but it, it is really powerful to say, hey, I need some help with this. Right. And that blows some men's minds, right. When they come into men's group. When I'm like, yeah, no, there's. It's actually really powerful for you to ask, I need help with this. And that's something you can do. And then it turns out you get the help you need from it and you're able to do more in the world.

Melanie Curtin: Right.

Jason Lange: In your relationship or in your job, you actually are able to impact and affect more change by asking for help. That is still powerful. It is powerful to ask for help.

Melanie Curtin: Yes. I could not agree more. It is powerful to ask for help. I'm actually going to write that down as a quote for the memorable quotes from this. Yeah. And I think that there's. There's such, there's such a, you know, the patriarchy tells you not to ask for help. I feel like the, the patriarchy is. Is all about, well, you should be able to do it yourself and pull yourself up from your bootstraps and, you know, all of this. But then the truth about what happens is that when you don't ask for help, things fall apart. Actually, there are many more breakdowns from you not asking for help and, and including addiction. Right. I mean, big, big, big bad things happen versus the directness of asking for help. And I think that's one of the things that I find the most masculine is when a man asks for help in a direct way. That feels really trustable to me. It feels like power, actually. Yeah, it does. It feels like power, and it feels like power with. And it also feels like wisdom because it's a. There's a deep understanding that sometimes I need help, sometimes you need help. When I'm down and you're up, you can help me. And vice versa. We are interdependent. There's a certain wisdom to that. The give and the take. The. The, yeah. The weaving, right. The infinity sign of giving and receiving and connection. We are all connected versus I'm an island. I can do it myself. To me, I'm like, I don't want to relate with that, man. That actually feels kind of scary because it's totally unrealistic. It's. It's not connected to reality. And it, it just, it doesn't, it just feels kind of icky, like, ooh, that doesn't. Doesn't feel safe somehow. Doesn't feel safe.

Jason Lange: Yeah. So, yeah, it's great. This is just so subversive to that patriarchal thing. So many of us men are, are fed. And just a quick example, it was like seven years ago, my wife and I moved into this place and I had to move from somewhere. She had to move from somewhere. We had a big moving truck. It took me way longer than I thought to get out of my place. And, you know, she was exhausted from the end of the day and just wanted to be in our place. And it was getting dark and I had that moment of, okay, so I can arrive with this giant moving truck and try to bust my ass and move everything inside, like, which in a sense would be powerful, right? Oh, I'm so tough. I'm just resilient. I'm just going to grunt my way through it. Or I can literally put out the bat signal to my men's group. Guys, I need bodies here. This time, emergency men showed up, took 25 minutes to unload the whole thing. So it was a different kind of power, right? The power of being able to bring in the resources I needed to my life and to my relationship. And I think that is somewhere you. Something you and I both deep, deeply believe in.

Melanie Curtin: I think there's also really important aspect to that story, which is that you are a powerful man in large part because of the connections you have to other men and the fact that you have a tight knit men's group and the fact that you have invested in community over the past decade of your life means that you had a group of solid, reliable men that you could text and say, literally tonight, like, I need you there tonight. I need help. And they absolutely showed up for you. So there's something about power that we think of as coming from inside us. And yes, it does come from inside us. And part of our power is our community. The strength of our relationships is part of our personal power. And that does require investment. Right. It's kind of like I'm obsessed with gardens, right? Now watering seeds, planting, you know, planting seeds, watering seeds, allowing them to flourish. Part of the reason we're always constantly crowing about community is that it's part of what supports us in our lives. It is connected to our power and it's important. And your wife, you know, benefited from your power, right, from your community on that night. She benefited from that. That you had developed all of that already and that it came through when you needed it. I have a couple of other examples that I think are really, really interesting, and this one is super inspiring. He says, thanks to this course, I stepped into my own power by telling my romantic interest and erstwhile friend that I want more than just a friendship. We were friends, albeit flirtatiously so for about a year and a half before I broke free from the shackles of worrying that my desires were inappropriate. I've learned that my desire for her is a gift. Now we are together, and every time I express how badly I want her, she lights up. Standing in my own power means I am no longer shy or hesitant about telling her how I feel. This is a huge win from this man. I mean, this is. This is one of those big success stories that I just feel so proud of him for actually taking the risk and letting her know how he felt and being the one to go first and actually claim and say, I want to do this with you. You know, we've been dancing around it for a long time, and here I am standing in my power saying, I want to do this with you. And he didn't need to do that perfectly. He didn't need to say the perfect words. It was messy, you know, it was. It wasn't like a rom com. Right. But it worked. And it worked in large part because he actually shared his truth in a straightforward way, like we've been saying. And she was able to then follow his lead rather than her having to generate that. Jason is nodding. You can't. You can't see him, but he's nodding.

Jason Lange: Yeah, yeah, I was just taking that in. Totally. He's. This, the story in particular is like, it's one of the awe inspiring ones of like, completely transformed something that it felt like it was over and done and forever going to be in this thing, but it was him just taking the initiative to share his truth again. Here's my truth, here's what I want. I'm not ashamed of that. And I want to be honest about it. And that was so powerful.

Melanie Curtin: Yeah, so powerful. I just have one more example and then we'll wrap. This is an interesting one that is about power and about boundaries, he said. More recently, I took a large step into my power and out of my comfort, I told my wife that she must leave her job, even if that means that I need to work more or that we will lose our beloved business. The weak man that I used to be wanted her to stay. He watched her become increasingly miserable and unhealthy. He saw the stress in her face and her body as she left for work every day, yet still wouldn't let her quit. He couldn't bear the risk of losing the business and the notoriety that it brought. He was selfish, image driven, insincere and weak. That man is being left behind. As I step into my power, I no longer need to have permission or approval from anyone else. I have begun to clear the clouds of my own insecurity in order to see what is real and what matters in my life. If I fail or if I succeed, I will have taken the path of leadership and will have acted with integrity and honor. I think that's such a good example of. It doesn't always look like. Yeah, it doesn't always look like the rom com. Sometimes it's like, wow, this isn't working. This thing that we're doing or this thing that you're doing. You know, I'm watching the impact on you and I just. It's not working. Like, I need to. Need to figure out a different solution because I. I am committed to your joy. I'm committed to your sense of safety. I'm committed to you as a person. And this is. This isn't working. So if you are interested in working with us, you can always go to Evolutionary Men, slash apply again. I really wanted to make this episode to inspire and encourage and let you know that transformation is possible. It is possible to go from one state to another state. It is possible if you don't feel like you're in your power and you feel stuck and you feel anxious and you feel depressed and you're not sure and you just. You're like, I don't know why isn't this part of my life working or moving or, you know, it just. It doesn't have to stay that way. You always have choice. You always have choice. And a lot of it is about getting the right mentorship. It's not always about that, but a lot of it is finding people who've walked the path before you, who are further ahead and who can lend a hand to bring you forward to where you need to be. Any last comments on that? Before we wrap.

Jason Lange: We're here to help. And the transformation can come faster than you think, Sam.