As a coach working with conscious men, I keep seeing the same pattern: guys who can talk for hours about emotional intelligence and healthy relationships, but who completely freeze up when it comes to actually claiming the woman they're with. That's exactly what I explored in my recent conversation with Melanie Curtin on her podcast Dear Men. We dove deep into this crucial distinction between claiming and committing, something that trips up even the most self-aware men I work with because they either don't understand how to do it or they actively resist it out of fear.
I shared some pretty raw stories from my own journey. Early on with my wife, I took her to a polarity night where we rotated partners for practices. I thought I was being cool and non-needy by giving her space, but I wasn't making it clear to anyone in the room that we were together. She felt totally unclaimed, and by the end of the night she was upset with me. That was a huge learning moment about the difference between holding someone in your awareness versus broadcasting that you're holding them there.
We talked about why men struggle with this. A lot of it comes down to not being connected to your own body, not having a clear sense of direction in your life, and not knowing how to have hard conversations. There's also this pattern I see where guys are afraid of hurting someone, so they keep one foot out the door. The irony is that lack of claiming creates way more hurt and confusion than being direct ever would.
The bumper sticker version: if she's guessing or you're assuming, you're not claiming. She shouldn't have to Sherlock Holmes her way into figuring out where she stands with you. And you can't assume she just knows you're into her because you showed up or because you're married. You have to keep showing it, day to day, week to week.
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Jason Lange: Or just what is it we're even doing right now? Again, it doesn't mean you have to like get married to her per se, but just like, you know, the thing you often spearhead of like the check in conversation of just like, hey, here's how it's going for me and you know, here's what I'm up for and I'm curious what's going on for you. And like, that's a version of a plan. Like being able to include in like that awareness of something's unfolding here. And I want to make sure we're as close as we can be in terms of being on the same page around that. So including her in your means you gotta have a plan.
Jason Lange: Yeah, I would say early on it was not something I was particularly strong at. For those longtime listeners know my story. I was a very late bloomer and didn't have a whole lot of experiences and kind of stumbled my way in after a lot of work to starting to have some actual relational experiences with women. And my early ones, you know, there was not much I was claiming, not many women I was claiming in a sense, partially because I didn't really know what I wanted other than, you know, to have sex and to have some experiences with women. And so it was not something I was very strong at bringing like additional clarity about what I was thinking about what was happening with us, where it was going. And you know, my first girlfriend, innocence I didn't really claim at all. It's just kind of, we fell into it, that kind of thing. And then because of a lack of claiming, we fell out of it in a pretty hard way, you know, like, because there wasn't a lot of clarity and definition about what we were doing. And that was big challenge for me at the time and something I got a little better at moving forward from there. But that, you know, as a self described nice guy, I would say I fell prey and have fallen prey to many of the things a lot of the guys we work with do as well in that, you know, definitely after doing the work, got better at connecting and flirting, but not better at this necessarily, this claiming part necessarily. Even with the early experiences, I'd say with my wife now wife, then dating partner.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah. And I guess before we go further, we should sort of define what we mean by claiming. And I think that this is a great topic because you can kind of share your experience as a man. Your experience of not claiming, which to me feels like wandering. Not claiming to me when you, when you talk about it feels like I'm sort of floating, I'm sort of wandering, I'm kind of looking around. I don't really have a direction. I'm not really choosing. I'm sort of, kind of taking things as they come or just there's a lot of vagueness. It feels like an energy of vagueness. And I'm wondering if that's how you would describe it and how you would sort of define. Define claiming. What does claiming mean to you? And then I can share mine.
Jason Lange: Yeah, I think wandering is certainly a, a great approximation of the energy. And it's not like wandering in the sense like, oh, I want to check this out or I want to check this out. It's just kind of wandering in the sense of not really clear where I'm Going, and I'll circle back to that in a minute. But yeah, from my experience, claiming is. And this is an important thing, it's not the same as committing. There's a difference there. You can claim someone without actually committing to them in the ways we often think of, in the ways men are often kind of stereotyped as being afraid of commitment or not being willing to commit. They can relate, and there's times where they do, but I really want to make clear that they don't necessarily always relate. There's a way you can claim in the moment. And, you know, for me, it really kind of comes down to, you know, we'll get a little more on the esoteric side of sometimes what we talk about, but it's, it's. It's when my awareness includes her. So I'm intentionally bringing her into my field of awareness and holding her there. And that's an important thing. And the moment we do that, it often changes what we're paying attention to, what our decisions of and our experience of her and what she wants. And so additionally, you know, with that, I think there's a sense of just tracking, even if I don't know where this is going, tracking that there's a here and a there, that there is. There is some kind of movement that's happening now because we met, we're interacting, whatever that might be. And that a natural question for most human beings is, oh, well, then, what next? What next? And even if you, you know, even if I don't know what's next as a man, holding that question in my awareness with her starts to really bring some of this claiming online. I'm aware I haven't really talked about where this is going with you or, or I can lead a conversation of. I'm not sure what I'm available for right now, but here's my truth. And then suddenly, you know, she's let in and I can get a take from her. So for, to me, that's a big part of it. It's the awareness piece, a slightly more tangible level, which we'll give you an example of in a. In a bit here from my own life. There's another flavor that's just hitting me, which is. It's also like broadcasting that. What I mean by that is.
Melanie Curtin: It'S.
Jason Lange: Not just like holding her and my awareness, but it's kind of allowing other people to know she's part of my awareness. And, you know, this is, this is one that we can talk about when I give my example shortly that I Think is important.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah, I, I can. I would just highlight what you said about feeling protected. So for me as a woman, I think that there's something that feels, again, that word safe, secure there' that feels safe to me about a man who has brought me somewhere, kind of making it clear like, this is the woman I brought. This is who I'm with. I'm with this woman. Hand on the small of my back, just little gestures, just attention on Me coming, checking on me. And I think that for a lot of men, they don't want to be the jealous asshole and they don't want to be possessive and they don't want to feel again, domineering, dominating. They don't want to dominate. And I would imagine, you know, that language you used we've heard from a lot of guys. Well, I was just letting her do her thing. Like I'm just letting her be, I'm letting, allowing her space. And I think that there's nothing wrong with that per se, but you might find that you run into this and I think the whole, I feel like as we've discussed many times, there's kind of the heart energy and the energy in, in the masculine. The heart energy is connection. It's, it's, it's heart based. It's sometimes, I guess you could use the word soft. It's allowing. It's generally associated with feminine traits. And then there's masculine energy or energy. And I use that word for a reason, which is there is a way that it's provocative, it's assertive, it's forward, you know, facing. And when these are out of balance, when there's a lot of heart energy and not a lot of cock energy, then you're gonna see things like this of like hanging back a lot and not wanting to rock the boat and, you know, passivity, like more behaviors like that, traits like that versus too much energy, which is dominating. It's jealousy at the extreme end of it. It's domestic violence. It's property. You are mine. I own you. It's too much of that and not enough heart energy is the patriarchy. And I think what a lot of men miss and a lot of what our work is, is bringing these into balance. So you can, as a man have both of them online. You can be an integrated man. And that's really the sweet spot. That's really what she wants. And that's really what we're talking about here when we're talking about claiming. Claiming is healthy masculine energy coming towards her. And when you know how to do that, when you can nail that man, your whole sex and dating and relationship life is going to change. And that's true whether you're in a dating phase or you're in long term relationship. And we have seen, we have witnessed men bring more of their energy, more of their masculine forward in relationship. And it has changed things, right? It has improved the sex, it has improved the intimacy, it has shifted the way that she feels with him. And a Lot of good has gone on because of that. So. So let's go back to briefly just then, the non claiming part. I just wanted to read a few more things from women talking about that and a quick, very, very quick story for my own life. Similar to the woman I mentioned where I went on a first date with a guy and it went well. I thought it was fun. And then there was something. There was. I don't know if you've had this experience, Jason, but there was something like, yeah, let's do something weekend, right? It was something like that. I think we'd gone on the date on like a Tuesday and it was like, let's do something this weekend. Either I said it or he said it. I don't remember. And then by Friday, I was annoyed. Like, by Friday I was like, should I make plans with my friends? Are we doing something? I don't really want to be the one that's driving this part forward. Like now I'm kind of annoyed. And I ended up actually telling him that, which is rare. I don't normally communicate, and I think a lot of us don't normally communicate very much in dating because it's scary. But I basically let him know, like, hey, I would really love if you made our plan this weekend. Are we getting together? And I'm feeling a little anxious because I don't know what's going on. And I did that in part to see how he would respond. And he responded really well. But I think it's a good thing for a lot of you listening to know that there's something about you making a plan that came up repeatedly. So one of the women said, when I don't feel claimed, I feel like he's not respecting my time, not planning out dates and adventures, not standing up for me in situations where I feel hurt, not being supported or playing devil's advocate against me. In conversations, one woman said, not feeling claimed feels like he's walking away in front of me and just leaving me in the dust, like, keep up or just stay home. And I think that's an interesting one because there is a feel. There's a feeling in my body as we're talking about it. When I don't feel claimed, I feel alone. When I don't feel claimed, I feel alone. And. And to your point, Jason, when I don't feel claimed and I feel alone, I feel my armor coming on. Like, okay, well, if I'm not going to be protected by him, I gotta protect myself. I'm gonna do this. Like, I got this I know how to do this. I can suit up. Like. And so then that's the version of me you're getting. And you can hear the difference. You can feel it and see it and hear it. Like, that's. That's where I am now. Like, I'm not. You don't. You don't got me. I got me. Because you're not doing it. Like, you're not doing it. And I think a lot of us women, you know, our path is often to soften and to allow. And to allow him to come in and claim. And it really helps if you know how to do it. There's a different version you're going to get. So a couple other responses were lack of planning and investment in time with me. Leads with what I can do for them won't share their own depth. So again, I think that the. We've done episodes about this of, like, one of the things she really craves is your leadership. And one of the ways you can lead is literally making the plan. Making a plan. It doesn't have to be an elaborate plan, but just a plan. And in relationship, that can even be. I'm noticing we need to have a deeper conversation about what we're doing for the holidays because there are a lot of moving parts. I would love to take you to brunch on Sunday so we can hash some of that out. How does that sound? That's leading versus her bringing it up. Right. It's like there's. There's just something about you bringing it up, creating a space, leading.
Jason Lange: Just.
Melanie Curtin: There's something about that, that. That is soothing to us, to me, to the feminine. I think that it's good for you to know about because you don't even have to be perfect at it. It's just like, oh, he's thinking about that too. Great. Because I don't want to. I don't want to be the only one that's holding the structure in the relationship.
Melanie Curtin: And that's, I think, why it is important to do the deeper work. Because if you, if you are, if you notice yourself holding back a lot or you're not able to move forward, if you don't feel able to actually do it, there's something going on, there's something deeper going on that needs to be explored and needs to be witness, needs to be healed. And until you do that, you're not going to get different results. And I think that's the illusion sometimes, like, oh, well, then it's when it's the right person or eventually I'll grow out of it or it'll somehow solve itself. I think that what we've seen repeatedly is without your focused attention on it, it doesn't tend to resolve itself. But with your focused attention on it, a lot can transform in a very short amount of time. So I want to move now towards what it feels like to be claimed and some of the kind of, of successes that we've seen in the men who've learned how to do this. So for women, one of the things that they said was when men claim me, I feel clearer and more grounded and I feel like I can be more fun and playful. And it was interesting reading a lot of the answers because that, that came up several times was safer grounded and then fun and playful. So here was another one. When I feel claimed, I feel safe and held. It makes me trust him and his leadership, guidance or direction. I can surrender and experience joy and be playful. I'm more willing to come along for the ride without having to worry about all the nitty gritty details like whether I'll be protected. I'd follow him anywhere. So there again is that sense of safety. Like when there is a container. When I do feel cleaned. I remember one of my women friends saying she went to a club and she had gone outside and a couple of men had approached her from the street. And right at that moment, her, the guy that she was with came out and just put her, his hand on the smile of her back, like, I'm here, I'm right here with you. And not in a possessive way. Not like, back up you, this one's mine. Like, I'm not talking about bullshit. I'm just talking about, I am here with you. I am here with you. I am paying attention, I'm right here. And again, you can only really do that if you are okay in yourself. If You've done enough work where you feel right and okay, because if you've got, if you've got trauma from your own stuff around those guys that had walked up, you might hold back, right? You might not want to come outside. There might be something in the way of you showing up for her and you gotta handle that, that has to get handled. But in this case, she was like, it felt really good. It felt like, oh yeah, ok, okay, I don't need to be scared. Like, there's nothing wrong here. I'm safe, like I'm protected. And they ended up having a great conversation and they moved on. But she remembered feeling like a little bit unsteady, a little bit unsure and like, I don't know, should I go inside? What should I do? And then the man she was with came. And to your point, they weren't married, you know, they were just dating. But it felt really good. It felt secure, felt safe. Like I'm here, right? And, and yes, I came with this woman. Like this woman is with me, I am with her. And there was something that felt, yeah, safe about that. Doesn't have be just the jealous possessive. It can be a healthy masculine showing up to just say, I'm here, I'm right here. And then, yeah, I think I wanted to just touch on a few just of our guys who kind of leaned into this. So one of my favorite stories, which I think I've actually shared before, but pretty recent, was a guy came into the program and one of his biggest goals was just, just I want to be able to approach women and, and I just want to be able to do that. Like right now it's like I go into freeze. I can't. My just whole system shuts down. I, you know, my just throat closes up like, I can't, I can't do it. I physically can't do it. And a huge success he had was met a really attractive woman in a store. I think she was a cashier or someone that was working there, you know, left the store, was like, I really liked her. I think she's really cute. I want to ask her out, out. And he was able to because of all of the work that he had done and how, how far he'd gotten, he was able to go in and ask her out. And it doesn't matter what her response was. The, the win is not whether she says yes. The win is whether you're able to ask. The win is whether you can go after what you want. So to me, he has cultivated claiming energy and that is only going to serve him for the rest of his life and relationship. Because that's what it is. It's like, like my body wants this. I'm gonna go tell her I want this and then see how she responds. She is at choice. She is at choice. I'm not bothering her with my, with my ass or with my desire. It doesn't take anything away from her. She is at choice around what she says. But I am able to bring my desire. Right. I have agency over my own claiming ability and to me that's huge. Any comments on that before we move on?
Jason Lange: That is one. I wish I could cultivate it at an earlier age, but it's a great example of when we talk about kind of the, the micro, right? There's a way, there's a way you can claim someone you've never met with your intention and your clarity. And he, he's, he's a great example of, of went for the clarity, right? He went for the clarity. Just boom. This was a clear, there's a clear approach. Wasn't like the going about it roundabout or something, but it was just like, boom, yeah, this is my intent and I'm naming it and claiming it with you. So you know, whether or not she says yes or no, there's a claim made there. And then he knows he did his part. So that, that's where, like, that's where we help men celebrate. Like they get to relax after that. No matter what happens. It's like, oh great, I did my part. Okay.
Melanie Curtin: Yes. And it doesn't have to only be in dating context. So we had another man who came in and we have a whole demographic of married men or men in long term relationships that, that come in that know that the more is possible in their relationship, they just want more. And in this man's case, case a breakthrough was, yeah, he actually shared with his woman. He's like, I want us to be closer. I want more intimacy with you. And that was a huge step for him. Well, really for them. But that is an example of claiming. And in her case, she was up for it. She was also like, okay, what does that mean? Like, I don't know, I don't know what it means. I want to hear more about what it actually looks like. And I think there was a concern like, is that winnable for me? Am I going to be able to meet you in that? Am I going to, Am I going to fail the intimacy test? Right. Am I going to not do it? Right. So she had her own experience, but it Brought them a lot closer. And they have had a number of breakthroughs after that. Just around closeness, just around closeness in their relationship, which has also led to a better sex. Just more joy, honestly, just more joy. And I'm particularly inspired by their story and stories like that because they have children and so they are modeling relationship and now they're modeling relationship in a different way. And of course the kids can feel it. They can feel when mom and dad are feeling it, right? When they're grooving, when they're, when they're holding hands, when it, when they can feel that connection between them and that's becoming their normal. Right? The kids are watching and learning all the time and that's becoming their normal. So I think they're. There's a lot of claiming that can happen in a love relationship over time. This isn't just something that happens in dating and it can really serve the partnership as well as the children if they're, if there are in that family system.
Jason Lange: I just had a line come to me, so I kind of. It's a great. I think this is solid. I think this is solid in terms of like a bumper sticker takeaway here. So. So if she's guessing or you're assuming, you're not claiming. So if she's left guessing, meaning she's having to interpret or make up or try to Sherlock Holmes her way into what's going on here, you're not claiming her. And if you're assuming she already knows something or she, like, there's already clarity there that has never been actually spoken, you're not claiming. So if she's guessing or you're assuming, then you are not claiming her. And all these things are examples of, you know, in both, both those examples you just gave, right? There's a directness to speaking about the context and being very clear about this is what I want. It's simple, but I think it is nice, guys. It's so easy. So easy, you know, to just assume they. Oh, she knows I like her, right? This goes for long term relationships too. Like, oh, I assume she knows I'm still attracted to her and like her. No, no, she's like, it's been a week and you know, I'm in a different part of my cycle. I feel different. Like, have you fallen out of love with me? Gotta be clear. Don't, don't leave her guessing and stop assuming men. That. That's one way to think about this.
Jason Lange: Yeah, I mean, I'm married now, so in some ways, you know, that was the ultimate claim in a sense. But it. The important thing is, yeah, it still has to happen day to day and week to week, and I could slip and forget and not make it clear that I'm holding you in my awareness and sharing that. So it's, it's. It's coming out as well, that second part. And if I don't do that, that it does not go well in my relationship. She's not happy, I'm not happy. And I have had to, you know, and it is easier, just easier to bring that and to come towards her and to make it clear and be mindful. Right. Of small gestures and those different things which are just, you know, all of those kind of gifts or surprises or which don't have to be things you like, buy necessarily, but they're just expressions of. Of I'm tracking you in my awareness. I'm tracking us in our awareness. And that's important to me. And I want you to know it's important to me. So here's some of the different ways I communicate and share that. And so, yeah, I mean, in an odd way, it's only becoming more important to me over time. The longer I married, the less it just happens automatically in some sense. Like, I think where a lot of people go wrong, men and consider in particular is, oh, well, she knows I love her because we're married. I got the ring, right? The container is all we need. No, you still got to put in the time, the work, the moment to moment, choosing an effort to show her that you're important, you're part of my awareness, you're part of my consciousness. And it's important that you and I stay in connection around where we're going together and that I think about that all the time and we talk about that all the time. What are we Doing what's next, what do we love? Like all those different things. So it. It can absolutely get easier. And I just know my, you know, the other thing I'll share is just on the other end of decades of men's work and personal growth work, I know myself a lot more. So it's just getting easier to be forward with what I want, because I know what I want. Right. And that just makes it easier in relationship over time.
Melanie Curtin: I think that's one of the things that I admire about you and something that I do see in a lot of our men is I don't really know what I want. And I feel some shame about not knowing what I want. And if, if that's you, if you were a man who doesn't know, that's okay. There's nothing wrong with you and you can figure it out. And there are people that can support you in that, including us.
Jason Lange: Us.
Melanie Curtin: Because I think that there's. Yeah, there's a lot of shit. I should have more of a direction. I should know what I'm doing. I should. There's a lot of. There's a lot of pressure, I think, on all of us in that direction. And I think that's one of the beautiful things that we've seen in our work is watching men develop that skill, watching them determine what they want, watching them practice doing it right. Practice getting something for lunch that you actually want, want, not what you think you should have. You know, just small things, big things, just practicing it, practicing. What do I want to do for the holidays? Not what does my family want me to do for the holidays, what do I want to do? Or what do I want to do this weekend? You know, regard, like separating out from everyone else. So I think that there's something exciting that I've witnessed in our guys is sort of watching them come into themselves almost like, oh, there he is right there. There's the essence of that man. And it's exciting, it's powerful, and it's frankly a turn on. It's. Yeah, that's attractive. That is attractive. Watching you actually go for what you want is attractive. So it's. Yeah, it's alchemical. So, yeah, we're going to start to wrap here. If you are interested in our work and going deeper, you can go to evolutionary.men/apply and you can get on our calendar. And if you're interested in supporting the podcast, you can become a patron. If you join at A$10 a month level or more, you can get access to our live Q and A'S which is happening. Actually, I'm not sure when this episode is going to drop, so I'm going to pause on that. But they happen every month. They're happening in late May. If this is that time, then you can probably still get in on it. And again, if you're interested in going deeper than the podcast, you can get us at Evolutionary Men Slash Apply.
