250: How do you re-polarize a relationship (bring back the spark)? | Dear Men

Melanie Curtin: It reminds me a lot of the rowboat metaphor that you used where I was like, oh, God, I would love to be like, my man is like, we're going rowboating around the lake and you get to just look at the pretty flowers. Like, this is where we're rowing. Like, oh, great. Like, we're doing this and you're invited. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode. I am excited about this one. This is a cool topic and one that's kind of, I don't know if I'd say trendy, but it's just being talked about in the wider community and I think is an important topic because we can build a relationship and then have a relationship and then feel like, this is it. This is how it is when it's actually possible to shift things. But when you're in the middle of it, it can feel like we're stuck or we're in a rut or we're trapped or there's something sort of like, this is just how it is. So I'm inspired by this topic because I believe that things are always shiftable, actually. And yeah. So thanks for joining, Jason. You are a fan favorite, obviously.

Jason Lange: Glad to be back.

Melanie Curtin: Yeah. And so we're talking about repolarizing a relationship and getting that spark back, which can mean different things to different people. So I thought we would just sort of start with a basic review of what is polarity and what. And specifically what is reverse polarity? Because when we're talking about repolarizing a relationship, we're frequently talking about reverse polarity and. And flipping that back. So what would your sort of short version be about? What is polarity and reverse polarity?

Jason Lange: Yeah, it's a great, great inquiry this many years in, of doing this work. But, yeah, polarity is really the practice of what can create attraction and want two people to be closer to each other and to feel a pull. So it's like a magnetic pole between, you know, the positive side and the minus side. Not that one's positive and one's negative. It's just that they're different and that through their difference, they actually create a magnetic pull to each other. So polarity is kind of the ever unfolding practice of how does that show up in relationship. Right. What makes two people feel pulled to be with each other and actually feel an energetic pole that, you know, sometimes we call chemistry, sometimes we call spark, Attraction, eroticism. There's lots of different flavors and words for it, but polarity is really the practice of. Yeah. How do we. How do we intentionally Cultivate that and build that in consciously to a relationship long term. Reverse polarity is what happens when whatever our essence is as a human being, and this is where, you know, this is kind of, we're at an interesting point where you can use these labels in so many different ways and people can embrace them in different ways. But oftentimes in this podcast, just for simplicity's sake, because of who we tend to work with, we talk about it in terms of masculine energy and feminine energy, which does not mean biologically male or biologically female. These are just two words for these types of energy we all have access to and we all actually have inside of us. What tends to be the case is oftentimes for most of us, again, not for everyone, but for most of us, we have kind of a natural home base in one of those energies. And all that means is it's like a slight preference for where we feel the most nourished. When we're in this space, we feel the most nourished, energized, relaxed, at peace, etc. So reverse polarity is what happens when a couple or two people in relationship, particularly an intimate or sexual relationship, are reversed. So whoever normally would hold and be most nourished by holding the masculine energy is more in their feminine, and whoever's normally more nourished and relaxed and being in their feminine is holding more of the masculine. And this has been an increasing point of friction, I think, in a lot of relationships these days because of just culturally where we're at in our evolution and changing roles and in the model we use from David Data of just very loosely, three stages of relationship, stage one, stage two, stage three, stage one. Being polarity comes from kind of more biology, like what are, what are the functions of our bodies and what can we do? And you know, back in the olden days, it was a lot of based in biology. Men were stronger. So there were certain things they could do generally just physically. They were bigger, more dangerous in a lot of ways physically. And then women were more relational, better at child rearing, literally the only gender capable bringing children into the world. That was stage one. And that's how most of people were for history. Stage two kind of started coming out, you know, 50, 60 years ago in particular. And that was where men, the masculine at that time, started to access their feminine feelings, emotions starting to see things as equal. Oh, just because I'm in this body doesn't mean I have to do this job. Vice versa. And women started leaving the household and getting into the world to work more and become more their own leaders and have more agency in their life and develop what, you know, we could label as the masculine. And then stage three is, you know, what we're all navigating right now in terms of bringing into the world consciously of how to play with all those energies with intention. But that reverse polarity really has been kind of increasing in a lot of ways for all kinds of different reasons that, you know, we don't need to spend a whole podcast talking about that. But it is just, it's something very common these days where oftentimes there'll be women out there who are commonly in their masculine, often from work in men who are more in their feminine. Because a lot of us men don't exactly know what our work is or how to access it in the world. All these different things we're dealing with right now and that can cause, it can cause a lot of friction in a relationship. Point being, what I want to highlight here is like there's if our essence, if my essence, let's say, which I believe it to be, is more masculine oriented, my partner's is more feminine oriented. Now again, we, we mix inside of these and sometimes that mixture changes. But generally that's true if I'm more in my feminine and my partner's more in my masculine. It's not just like we're not attracted to each other. There can actually be like a repulsion. It's like a, it's like a, like it does not feel good for me to be in my body and it does not feel good to be with my partner when she's in her body in reverse polarity. And that's where things can get really sticky in a relationship.

Melanie Curtin: Yeah. A couple things I want to highlight again. This is not tied to sex and we do work with queer clients and it's not. Yeah, it's not about the specific body that you're in. And what I would say is that a trend that we have seen in our clients is male bodied folks who identify as men will come and say, like, I just like my partner and I aren't having sex. We were just roommates. I don't know what happened. I wish that there was more, more heat, more excitement. I don't really feel like I'm leading in the relationship. I don't really know what that means. I don't know, like, I want it to be better, but I don't know how to get there. And in terms of the felt experience, because I do find myself, you know, to your point, I Think, especially in love relationship, my essence is feminine. I want to be in my feminine, also known as Omega. I like the words alpha and omega because I think they're helpful in terms of labeling these without masculine and feminine, because those come with a lot of things with them. So as an explanation, when I'm in my Omega flow, I'm relaxed. My belly is relaxed, my heart is open. I'm. I'm sort of available to be moved by life. So I'm, yeah, I'm relaxed, I'm open, I'm available. When I'm in Alpha, I'm thinking, I'm analyzing, I'm doing, I'm deciding, I'm. I'm making choices, I'm organizing, I'm dealing with my calendar. I'm perhaps, you know, doing my work. I'm, I'm this. You can hear it in my voice. I'm more in my alpha organizational place. And what I find is that in my love relationship, I don't want to be in Alpha. I. I do. I love my Alpha place. I love, you know, performing, presenting, achieving. Like, that's a big part of my world. And if that's the only part of my world, I don't feel fulfilled, I don't feel nourished, I don't feel happy. I need Omega flow to feel like myself, to really feel like my full self, my full, radiant, feminine self. And that can be with my partner or it can be, you know, lying in the sun, right? Just receiving. Anything where I'm relaxing and receiving puts me in my omega flow. Dancing, listening to really good music, watching a beautiful performance, getting a facial, getting a manicure, receiving, receiving, receiving puts me in my omega flow. And when I'm with my partner, I want to feel more in Omega than in Alpha. And what happens, I notice, you know, being around different, different men is that when I don't trust a man to lead or to be, to take alpha, to hold the masculine pole, essentially when I don't trust him to do that, then I do it. So I pick up the ball, I pick up the organization. I'm thinking of a really, you know, good guy friend of mine where sometimes I feel like I'm the one leading. Like, what are we going to do? Who are we going to talk to? How are we going to make it happen? You know, there's certain things that need to happen, and I'm kind of picking up that ball versus in, you know, a past love relationship. Felt like he was like, what would feel really good for you to do this weekend? I would like to help make that happen. So it was like, oh, I get to relax into, like, what would feel good for me. And then he's going to help execute that, which is really different than just there's no direction, there's nothing. He's not providing anything. And I'm kind of like, all right, well, I'll step into that vacuum where nothing's happening and provide some structure. So when we talk about alpha, we're talking a lot about structure, and that includes, like, time and place. Where are we going to go? What time are we going to go? What are we going to do? That's. That tends to be alpha versus omega is like dancing around, like, you know, decorating a space, kind of like filling. Filling the space. So in. In the past, we've described polarity as alpha or masculine is the banks of the river, it's holding the river, and feminine or omega is the flow. It's the water. It's the rushing of the water in the river. It's the flow. It's moving, it's movement, it's. It's, it's delight, it's. It's all of that. And as, you know, Jason mentioned, we all have both of these energies in us. But the out of whackness. Right. That you were describing, I think has been common. We've had a bunch of clients come in who we work with men who are single, and we also work with men who are getting divorced as well as men who are in relationships. And a lot of the relationship clients that we've had, they're married or in a long term committed relationship. And this is often what they're coming for. They're coming because they're like, it's not really working. Like our relationship isn't really working. And sometimes that's the sex. Often it's the sex like we're just roommates. It's not. There's no spark. We're just. It's not really working, or there's just a sense that I know there could be more here. It feels like our connection is. Is only this deep. And I want it to be closer. I want to feel closeness. I want to feel that really tender, lovely, warm sensation of, like, joy and connection. And I can feel that it's not there and that what you're describing, what you described, Jason, with the reverse polarity and the kind of repelling quality, I think there's. The word that comes to mind for me is brittle. There's a certain brittleness to reverse polarity where she's. She doesn't want to have sex with him. She's kind of turned off and turned away. Turned off and turned away. And there's a way that her heart is closed and guarded and a bit hardened. And he's kind of like, confused, maybe meandering. I mean, you can speak a little bit more towards the actual felt experience, often in shame, but a lot of confusion. I find a lot of confusion and fogginess. Our clients will come in with, like, I just don't know why this isn't working. I know it's not working, but I don't know why. And it just doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel good. So can you say a little bit about that, that side of it, of what it actually feels like?

Jason Lange: Yeah. This one in particular tends to show up a lot for. For nice guys, which is a big population, you know, we tend to work with term popularized by our friend Dr. Robert Glover. And one of the telltale symbols of that often of what leads men to us in the kind of. Here's what I've tried is I've tried just making her happy, you know, as Dr. Glover calls it, please and appease. Like, I'm just doing everything she wants, this, that. But often totally losing touch with self and what I need and what I want in the relationship. So there's a lot of men we've worked with who are. Who have been there when they come to us of like, I have been doing, like, everything I can to please my partner, and it just seems to make her more angry and closed. And that's very confusing for me. Like, what am I doing wrong here? So that's a big one that comes in. I think another one for us men is. Yeah, just when we've. When we don't have a sense of direction of where. Where we're going and where the relationship is going, it can. That's. I think sometimes the confusion like. Of, like, well, what. What is the step I need to take here? Like, what step do I need to take? Like, what do we need to do? And the second where in that it almost requires our partner step more into their masculine because if we can't orient, they have to orient. And that, again, is a pretty common dynamic. Yeah, I think confusion is a big part of it of just not knowing what to do next, not knowing how. Not literally just I want to do the right thing, but I don't know what to do here to create attraction in my relationship again. And that's confusing. That's frustrating. And sometimes that's depressing. I'm just like, well, I've kind of just given up. So sometimes men also just get to the point of starting to shut down and pull away, which then their partners harden even more and it becomes just a vicious, vicious cycle in one sense. Or there's just, you know, the kind of one, one level away from reverse polarity which we talked about is you hinted out of just like depolarized of. It's just, there's just no erotic energy between us and I don't know how to generate that anymore. Right. Like it. We just, we watch movies together, we talk, we go on walks, we do all these things together, but they're things I could do with my best friend or any friend, not with my lover per se. And how do I reclaim being in a lover relationship with this person? Those feelings, right, that, that desire, the. There's something enlivening when we feel our partner wanting us, right? When we feel them wanting us and we're wanting them, there's like a real magnetic and generative energy in that. And when that's gone, there's just like the kind of sometimes flatness that really shows up in relationship. But for a lot of guys, it's. It's. Whatever I'm doing is not working here. I'm not satisfied and she's not satisfied. And, and at the, at the, you know, the more rough end, like my relationship is one of the major stressors in my life at maybe the more mid end of just like, it's okay, but it's just flat. It's just flat. You know, we've been together 10, 15, 20 years. We've had kids, we've whatever, we kind of get along, but we're not really lovers anymore.

Melanie Curtin: Yeah. Thank you for speaking to that dynamic because I do think a lot of people and a bunch of people we've worked with have fallen into that category. And I think that there's. Part of why I wanted to do this episode is because I do think that there's a question and that there's a story in our culture that, well, this is just it. Oh well, this is just how it is, right? Like this is what marriage looks like. And I don't agree. I, I partly because I've witnessed our clients repolarize relationships so I can see it happen. I've witnessed it happen. And I think that's a damag story because it doesn't, it doesn't lead to growth. It doesn't spark more, I don't know, aliveness. It doesn't, it doesn't sort of beg the question of, like, well, what. What can we do about this? And there's. It's interesting because, you know, in prepping for this episode, we were going through sort of clients that we've. We've witnessed repolarize. And I guess I want to be clear that we're going to start to talk about how. How that happens now. And I really want to be clear that it is not entirely 100% your responsibility as a man to repolarize a relationship. It's actually not even possible for you to do that without a willing partner. You have to have a willing partner. And what we've seen repeatedly is that some men come into the program and they're actually with a partner, a dating partner or relationship partner that has borderline personality disorder or some other, you know, situation happening where that woman is actually not available for repolarization. She's not available, she doesn't want to do it, she's not interested, or she doesn't have the capacity. She's not actually capable of doing that and playing. Playing that role, doing that dance, being in. Being in a relationship, being in a healthy relationship with give and take. So we're going to start to talk about how to repolarize. And I want to be clear that if it feels like, truly feels like you can never win with your partner and it's never working, and no matter what you do, it's bad, and you don't feel any movement at all, that is a red flag. And you should listen to our episode. I think it's 128 on borderline personality disorder. And just get a feel for that, because there could be something else going on. So it's just a disclaimer because everything else rests on. On that. And then. Yeah, the other thing that I wanted to just echo was, you know, you mentioned that I'm trying to do all the right things in my relationship. I've been doing everything to please my partner, and it just seems to make things worse. And I really feel like what has been deeply inspiring to me about witnessing the men in our program that have reclaimed themselves and repolarized their relationship is that they've dug into, who am I? What do I want? Where do I want this to go? What do I want just in my life, in this moment, for this meal, just. It's so fun to watch these men find themselves and move from their. Their desire, their passion, their core. And then to see them watch their partner enjoy that like that, be inspired by that feel that energy that Power coming from them. And they're like, oh, this is actually a lot easier than what I was trying to do, which was actually turning her off. So there's something, there's a win, win quality that I've really enjoyed watching and witnessing, which is that, yes, a receptive woman partner wants you to be in your power. That's. I think what I was trying to say is I don't think a BPD partner really wants you to be in your power. And that's not what we're talking about here. But a receptive feminine partner, whatever physical body she's in, wants you to be in your power. She enjoys that. She's inspired and lit up and her radiance gets to come out when you lead, when you are in your power. And I'm. I'm wondering if you can speak a little bit, because I think sometimes that phrase can feel intimidating to men. Of what does that mean, be in my power? Like, you know, do I have to show up like Thor? I mean, our culture has really weird definitions and, and things around words like power. So can you just describe a little bit of your sort of felt experience of reverse polarity and then kind of, how did you reclaim your power or what did it mean for you to take that on and how did that affect the pattern?

Jason Lange: Yeah, I think power is such a good word, and it doesn't mean what a lot of men think it means of, like, domination, power over even traditional definitions of strength. How I work with guys around it now is you got to be able to answer three questions as a man, independently of your partnership and your relationship. Who am I? What do I want? Where am I going? You have to know that the answers to that cannot come from your partner. If it, if you need to get the answers to that from your partner, it's immediately going to be depolarizing in a sense. So power just means being clued into my body, my desires, and my intuition and then following it towards whatever vision I have. Like that. That's my sense of power. And inside that is a willingness to step into vulnerability in life by taking risks, taking chances, putting myself out there, being authentic, being myself, so to speak. Right. Real, real power is just, here's who I am. Like, it's kind of that simple in a lot of ways. And then inviting the right people along to join you. And when we're not in that, you know, again, there's a sense of being adrift or lost or not feeling in control. That's the thing, you know, one metaphor we often Get I, I think somebody even that recently graduated our program was talking about this of like, there's a feeling of I'm not in control of my own life. Life is happening to me. I'm not actually driving the car of my life. I'm just responding to little fires and moments and things here and there. But as men come into themselves through this work we do, it's like, oh yeah, I'm driving my life again. I am choosing where it's going. Life isn't just happening to me, but I'm happening to life. Here's where I'm moving, here's what I'm trying. Now that includes lots of mess ups and fuck ups and failures and not getting everything right. But there's a sense of I'm moving and I'm moving with intention in consciousness and choice. That's what makes it highly masculine is right. We're choosing it. There's consciousness behind it, there's intent behind it. And that's something that can get wiped away pretty easily for a lot of men these days. So reclaiming that, getting back into that power is super important. And oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes for whoever's holding the masculine, that alpha point or that directive energy in the relationship, there's a big link between us being in that power, in that energy and just feeling relaxed and knowing what we're here to do in the world. What's the life we're building towards, right? What are we trying to build and when we don't know that or are lost along that journey, that's often where men feel very out of their power, right. They don't know how to make changes in their life. They don't know how to move towards the things they want to in their life. And there's kind of a sense of really being adrift, right? I mean, you can think of the difference between like being in a boat and rowing it towards where you want to go and just sitting in the boat and the ocean is just tossing you whichever direction it wants. That's often the, the powerful metaphor that works here. And when we're just in the boat and it's drifting around, it's not particularly magnetic or attractive to those who are naturally in their feminine essence because they're like, well, we both can't do that otherwise nothing's ever going to happen, right? I want to do that and I want to do it with you. Like actually what I want is I want you to row the boat and me to just relax in it and say, go There, go there, go there. That looks pretty or whatever. And then there's like a synergy between the two of you. The two. So, yeah, for me personally, when I've been out of that sense, there's. There's often a lot of frustration, there's a lot of shame, there's like feeling behind or not feeling in control, there's comparing myself to others or even my partner often comes up. And there's lots and lots of rumination and self questioning. Right. Which is a. Is kind of where that, like rudderlessness, that direction is like, well, do I do this? Do I do this? Is this right? Is this right? Is this right? But you can just feel the energy of that versus like, well, this is what I'm doing. Which is totally different energy than is this right or wrong? Just this is what I'm doing. Hope it works. You know, not quite that cavalier, but there's like a, this is what I'm doing. I'm trying this right now. Now. I'm trying this right now. Now I'm trying this right now. And it's actually just the willingness to keep stepping into that is often all that we need to do. Like, I've been shocked, you know, with my own partner, or as we, we've worked with couples and guys in relationships, like, we don't need to be successful in everything we're doing. There's just like a, well, this is what I'm trying. Well, this is what I'm trying. Well, this is what I'm trying. Here's the current plan. Here's how I'm tweaking that plan. And that alone is often enough for a partner. But when we don't even have that, that's when it can be. It's. I mean, it's like a genuine depression and like hopelessness oftentimes in us men in the masculine.

Melanie Curtin: I really like what you just said, and I guess I want to reassure men listening. I can't tell you how true that is. And what I mean is I don't need my partner to be successful all the time. It's not about succeeding or rocking it or being, I don't know, the pinnacle of whatever the culture says is right. It's, it's just about, do you have a conscious sense of direction? Do you have a sense of purpose? And I'm not even talking about huge, massive purpose in the world. But for example, one of the ways I've witnessed several of our men repolarize their relationship is, is they had a series of vulnerable conversations with their women they. They went to their women and, you know, with guidance held by the group and all the rest of it, they had conversations where they said things like, I want us to be closer. Like, I'm putting a stake in the ground. I know that our relationship can be more, and I want it. They had never said anything like that before. They had never put a stake in the ground. They had never been straightforward and. And vulnerable. Because it is vulnerable to say that you don't know what your partner is going to say.

Jason Lange: What.

Melanie Curtin: What if she says, I don't want to do it? That's scary and incredibly courageous and brave. And several of, you know, many of our clients have had these kinds of conversations. And my point is that's very polarizing, right? With me as a woman receiving that, I'm like, oh, wow, okay, you know what you want. You want us to be closer. You have a sense of how we could get there. Doesn't have to be perfect. Doesn't have to be mapped out. Doesn't have to be. It's like. It's like saying, I want to go to Alaska. Like, okay, there's lots of ways to get to Alaska. But I. Now I know you want to go somewhere. And there's a certain excitement. There's a certain. There's a. There's a spark. There's energy there. There's passion around claiming. Because a lot of what we're talking about really, is claiming energy, which is, I want to do this. I want to go here. I want to accomplish this. And to your point, Jason, it doesn't matter if you actually accomplish it. It doesn't matter in terms of polarity. It's not about reaching the destination. It's not about achieving the goal. It's just about the direction. It's. It's rowing towards something. It's not whether you make it to the place you're rowing towards. It's really not for Polari. It's just the. The focus, the intention, the consciousness, the awareness, the, like, all of that that we're talking about, that's alpha. That's Alpha. And it's hot. It's really hot. And it's one of the most inspiring things that I've seen in our men, is that as they are going through the program and they're getting more clear and they're claiming themselves, they're moving into their power. They're then able to bring that clarity and direction and desire. And I'm not just talking about sexual desire, but desire to their partners. Like, this is my vision for our Relationship. This is what I'm wanting. And that is polarizing. That is polarizing. And if you bring that intention and consciousness with love, that's the perfect inflection point to see how does my partner respond? How does she respond to me? Is she able, is she able to relax into her omega enough so that we can meet here, so that we can play here? And like I said, if you're constantly getting no's and you're, you're trying, you're showing up and you're not getting any energy back, that's not a good sign. But for a lot of the men we're talking about, they had these brave conversations and they weren't easy and it's not like one and done, but their women responded. They did respond and they did relax and they did open and there was more, a lot more space for sexual connection. Right? I mean, I can't tell you how many times guys were like, yeah, we had like the most connected sex that we've had so far. Or we, or we tried this new thing that we've never done and it brought a lot of energy or heat or just there's something that unlocks between two people on a sexual level. When this polarity does get, you know, flipped back into, I don't know what's non reverse, like regular polarity, whatever that term is. And I'm thinking specifically of, you know, one client who emailed and basically said things have never been better. Things have never been better between my partner and me. And I just, I want to emphasize this is not something that happened overnight, but it's also not something that took forever. Right. We're not talking about this taking years, we're talking about months. And there's something really gratifying about. There's something particularly gratifying about the shift in a longer term relationship because what we often find is that in the clients who are showing up, who are single or who are getting back into dating, they learn how to lead and, and engage in polarity and, and polarize women basically. And they're like, holy, my dating experience is so much better now. Right? It's, and that's exciting in a different way. But there's something deeply gratifying about a long term relationship that's repolarized, where it's like, wow, they already have the trust built in many ways. Like they already have history, they have shared community, shared values. Just a lot's already working. And then you add this in and it gets pretty special. So, yeah, I think it might be maybe a Good time to read our testimonial. We have a little testimonial from. From one of our men. And I'm wondering if maybe you could read it because then it'll be in a masculine voice. But I think it sort of ties together some of the themes that we've been talking about.

Jason Lange: Repolarizing is the perfect characterization of my marriage. I came into the marriage as a classic nice guy, not really claiming my masculinity or holding that energy. Felt like I needed to be subservient to my wife. If I could do everything for her, she would have no excuses. I didn't make decisions. I didn't hold space for her. I didn't provide any safety for her. I was very passive in the relationship. By default, my wife had to take on the role of masculine in the relationship. She had to take on the strength and the structure. She had to fight the battles by herself. She became very controlling. She buried her feminine energy under her masculine role. Our relationship was completely upside down and backwards. We had moved into a stage two relationship where the polarity had reversed, causing all kinds of stress. Neither of us was comfortable, neither of us was happy. If we had been more aware of our relationship dynamic sooner, I really believe we would have divorced years ago. Then the miracle happened. I stopped waiting for my wife to tell me what we needed to do next. I grabbed my balls and got to work changing myself and really didn't care what my wife thought or not. I quickly learned that I had to be healthy and centered in my masculinity before any change in the relationship would happen. I discovered through the program with Mel and Jason, the concept of divine masculine and divine feminine energy. I learned what the masculine looks like, how it moves through the world, how it interacts with the feminine, and thus what I wanted to become. I never understood that what I wanted from my wife in the relationship was dependent on how I showed up in my masculine energy. My masculine allowed my wife to relax into her feminine, giving her the freedom to blossom into the sensual, exciting, spontaneous, creative woman that I had been craving since our dating days. It's been a hell of a lot of work, but worth every minute. The relationship has never been better. We have our difficulties, we argue, we disagree. But our communication has never been more open and intimate. Our sex has never been as exciting or fulfilling. I can bring her to orgasm through energy, movement without physical touch or penetration. So incredibly mind blowing for both of us. Our emotional connection has never been tighter. No secrets. We can feel each other and are safe for each other. To be vulnerable with. We are slowly becoming the couple we dreamed about when we were dating.

Melanie Curtin: Oh, my God. It's so romantic. It's so romantic. It's like. That's what I mean about the. It's really romantic to hear, you know, the Disney stories that we all grew up on, where two people meet and then, poof, they're in a relationship. But to me, it's actually more romantic to hear this where we weren't doing well, we grew, and now we're becoming the couple we dreamed about when we were dating. It's like there's something about coming back to the dream that you had at the beginning that's like, now just got the foundation and the essence. And one of the words that really struck me from that note was intimate. The word intimate. Intimate and intimacy. And I think that so many of the men that we work with, that's what they're really craving. It's like, yes, they want the sex, but really, they want the intimacy. They want the sense of togetherness. We're a team. We're. We're safe with each other. We're vulnerable with each other. We're. We're close, really close. And a lot of the time, that feeling has. Has felt elusive. It has felt like it's out of reach or it's not quite here. It's like it's almost there, but it's not. Sort of. Kind of used to be there, but it's not anymore. And I think that this person spoke really eloquently to when. When he was being passive, when he wasn't showing up in his alpha power, in his power. His wife took up the mantle, and she had to put up layers. And. And. And, you know, I can feel it in my body when I talk about it. It's like my abs engage, right? I start to kind of gird myself, like, okay, got to be strong now. Got to show up. Got to do the thing. And it. It's a different way of being. It's actually different physiologically the way that it feels, just all of it. And I really appreciate, you know, his level of consciousness and awareness of. Of bringing awareness to. Yeah, this is what happened. This is where we were. And I think it's really telling that. And. And what's really encouraging here, and I think the biggest message that I want to get across is he took it upon himself to grow, and that shifted the relationship. So it wasn't like she, you know, had to do all of this stuff she chose to do to grow in her own way. Too. But he led. He led. And the reason that's encouraging is because if you're out there listening and you're wondering, you know, is this going to work? Will it work? Yeah, it works. It does work. When you take the initiative and you grow and you actually re. Access your power, which is often shut down when you're young for a variety of reasons. When you do that, it really does change things in the relationship. And, you know, like we said, we. There's no guarantee because it does depend on where your partner's at. But if she is receptive, if she does want to play, if she is engaged, it is going to change. Like, the relationship is going to change. When you do this work and you grow, it shifts in the room, it shifts in the dynamic. It's. It's like. It's physics. It's like A equals B. If this, then that. And I think there's. There's something really powerful about this that I remember one of our clients speaking to where he. He was like, yeah, I came back from a trip or something. He's married with two fairly small children, like, young children. And he said, I've come back from a few different trips. And I've noticed that when I come back and I'm deeply present, my wife relaxes every. You know, the household kind of runs smoothly. When I've been distracted and not really present and not practicing the things that we talk about and all that, then there's chaos, chaos ensues. And it's like. It's almost like physics. Like, if this. Then that. How I show up as the man in the house with my family impacts everyone in the house. And of course, I'm not, you know, he's not the only one, but it was just a great contrast of like, wow, I came back last week and showed up in a different way and wow, things were great. And, you know, we had sex that night and it was really awesome. And then this week, I was distracted. I was not resourced. I was low energy. I didn't show up with presence and attention and awareness and care, and holy shit, everything fell apart. So there's a pretty immediate feedback loop, I think, with. Especially with young children, because they're so attuned to the adults in the house and what's happening. But I really enjoyed that as another example of the hope and the inspiration and the power of a man taking these steps and moving in this direction. Man, it really can change things. It really does change things. And there's. And I think that that's partly A. What's the word? Partly a result of the physics of polarity, meaning the leader and the follower. Like I think of partner dance a lot when I think about polarity. And I'm a tango dancer and in tango, the lead is, is moving the follow around the floor, guiding, moving, directing. So when you have a strong lead, even if the follow isn't as strong of a follow, even if she's not as experienced, the dance is going to go a lot better, it's going to go more smoothly, everyone's going to be safe. There's just, there's such power to that. And so I think that for those of you that do hold the alpha role, the masculine pole in relationship, you have a lot more power than you think that you have. You actually have a lot of potential to shift the dynamic from your side, meaning you, you have the control, you have the power. It might not feel like it, but there's so much that can be done when you take, take that, that on. Any comments on that part?

Jason Lange: Yeah, just to highlight that what I read just there, you know, they had been together for decades. Decades, Decades, right. The majority of the relationship was not what he just listed. That's the thing that changed within six months of doing the work in and stepping in and showing up differently. And it was like, wow, this is a whole new relationship with this person I've been with for decades in my life. So really want to highlight that. Yes, it can change and it doesn't have to take forever when you have a willing partner who's will step in there and meet you to some extent in this. But it does start with, you know, in our, in one of our trainings, one of the first things I used to talk about is it's often like the, the, the masculine often provides the direction or the spark or the, that's like what ignites things. Right. So if we don't have a spark around our desire or our direction or our own development, it often won't happen in the relationship in quite the right way. Or if it does, our partner's generating it and then that can generate some reverse polarity. But when we're like, you know what? I'm tired of not being happy in my life. I'm going to start taking care of myself and do work to get happy. I would love for you to join me, but I'm doing this no matter what. Here I go. That often starts to create that sense of momentum. It's like the, oh, okay, now there's somewhere to flow right now there's somewhere to flow and then she can flow with you in. That doesn't mean it's all going to go swimming or easy. But there's a sense of, okay, let's start trying some things to do things differently. Right. I think that's one of the big shifts out of the depolarized place to the repolarized place that I've seen in our men and I've heard countless times from women who have been on the other side of this is when we as men stop tolerating a shitty relationship. Like when it's clear we're not happy and we're clear our partner isn't happy. There's like a way we can, you know, the masculine is really good at just like putting up with things, oh, this is the way it is. Or just got to deal with this. But when there's like a, you know what? No, I think we can do better than this. I'm gonna start trying some stuff that immediately can change the energy. Right. And that often happens in those conversations. Like you said, this doesn't always mean like leading around some big adventure across the with the world or New City. Sometimes this means just leading and like having a frank conversation that often is nothing more than coming into exquisite contact with what actually is happening in the relationship and both just naming it and being with it. This isn't feeling good for either of us. Isn't it? Right now, like, I'm in pain and you're in pain. Sometimes that is the most bold, polarizing action you can take as a leader. Suddenly there's like, I mean, I can even just feel it in my body of like, generally once the truth is like resonated, there's like, ah, it's like, oh, well, we can actually relate to each other again instead of pretending like this isn't happening, which is where that. What happens when. Where we just tolerate it for so long that it's just like, ah, you know, we're. I'm not really happy. She's not really happy. We're just trudging through. But I don't want to make things worse. I don't want to make her mad at me or whatever. And there's. That is just poison and leads to so much resentment and frustration on both sides.

Melanie Curtin: And I want to really hold sacred space for why that pattern has come up. So I can't tell you how many men we've worked with where they were neglected as kids. They are children of neglect. And that can be physical neglect, but it can also be emotional neglect. And when you haven't been taught how to lead because no one was there teaching you basically anything really, of substance, then it's really hard to figure it out by yourself. And I think that's where mentorship is important. It is actually important to get the right mentorship, whether that's coaching or therapy or workshops or, you know. But there's something about quality, high quality mentorship that I have seen repeatedly be the difference between people who grow and people who don't. So trying to do it yourself isn't working. If it was going to work, it would have worked. It's not working. And there's something about, you know, naming the dynamic, like you said, Jason, of we're not connecting very well right now. This isn't. This isn't working what we're doing. I want to try something else. Here's a few ideas. That's a sense of direction and a sense of possibility, or we're not connecting right now very well. Here's what I'm doing about it. It's like, oh, okay. That's also polarizing because there's a sense of naming the moment, being with what's so. And then the action that I can't tell you how many men I've witnessed kind of reclaim their own history, like, value. Just they've figured out why they haven't been able to do this before, why leading has been tough, why having these conversations has been so scary or overwhelming or led to freeze. And it comes from a very legitimate place. So I guess I just want to say, if you haven't been able to do this before, it's. There's a very good reason why. It's not because you're worthless or you couldn't figure it out, or you're not good enough. No, it's from a legitimate place of suffering and of not having the right training. You just didn't know how to do it. You haven't been taught how to do it. And what's inspiring is all of the men that we've worked with, where they have learned, they have grown, and then it's working. Like it's. Like it's not rocket science, genuinely. Like this is. This is human behavior that you can master and do. And I think that's also important, what you said about not waiting. So I remember years ago working with a client who was in the salsa community, and he had a few people that he would dance with, and he had this epiphany about leading and polarity and dance where he said, oh, I'm Just realizing that, you know, sometimes I'll call up, like, a woman. Not a woman he's dating necessarily, but a dance partner, and say, like, hey, I was thinking about going, like, are you going to. You know, and with. With that kind of energy. And she's like, oh, I don't know. Yeah, maybe. I mean, I'll see how I feel at work and that you can hear the energy. And then he said, and I'm realizing that it. It's a lot different when I call up and I say, I'm going tonight. Would love if you join me. But it's like, again, there's that sense of. There's a stake in the ground, There's a claim. A claim has been made. And then I. As the. As. As an omega person or whatever. Weight, language. Then I get to orient around that. And I'm like, oh, oh, well, if you're going, right. If it's a sure thing that you're going now I'm going to bring my. My shoes to work now. I'm gonna. I'm gonna plan on it because. And there's a certain way that my body can relax versus if he calls me and he says, oh, I'm thinking about going, are you going? I'm like, I'm sort of in that, like, noodling place. And I also feel like I kind of have to decide or there's a certain something is expected of me versus this is what's happening, and you're invited, right? That's polarizing. This is happening, and you're invited. It reminds me a lot of the rowboat metaphor that you used where I was like, oh, God, I would love to be like, my man is like, we're going rowboating around the lake, and you get to just look at the pretty flowers. Like, this is where we're rowing. Like, oh, great. Like, we're doing this and you're invited. Or. Or I'm doing this, right? Like, I'm going stand up. Paddle boarding. I would love for you to join me. Like, okay, that sounds great. There's like a sense of freedom and delight and. Yeah, just effortlessness is the word that comes to mind. And I think that that's something that has been delightful to witness in. In men who've gone in this direction is. Then they get to witness their woman in her joy. Right? Which is kind of what they wanted all along. They're like, wow, this is so much more fun. Like, generative to delight in this radiance versus the kind of like. Like nagging, frustrated, like, Crunchy, just. Or just, like, diffused. Right. Not a lot of spark there. That was the version before. So. Yeah. Anything to add on in. In that section?

Jason Lange: So much. Just. Yeah. It's how important it is for us to kind of know where we're going again. And that immediately generates something. Because then there's. Because then, you know, one way you can think of it is the more clear we are, whoever's holding the masculine. That go. Energy, the directive energy, the more the person we're inviting or interfacing or connecting with is just all they have to. Yes. No, my body feels good. Doesn't feel good. Right. There's. It's. It's much more in the body versus, like, having to think through just. Oh, that feels great. Yeah, I'm in. Right? There's like a. It's much quicker. I don't. It's hard to explain, but it's just. And it's often much more pleasurable for the feminine to just feel like, oh, feels good in my body. Doesn't feel good in my body. Feels good in my body. Doesn't feel good in my body. Um, and. And it's fun, right? And then, you know, the highly polarized place becomes. Then. Yeah, we're rowing the rowboat and we're noticing our partner's energy. Oh, my God, she's totally drawn to that. The bunch of flowers over there on the bank. I'm gonna row over there because I can see it's raising her energy right now. Oh, my God, how much fun she's having. More fun now. Ooh. What else can I do? Ooh. I'm gonna take around the part that's a little bumpy. That'll be exciting. Right? And then we see her like that. And then you can see there's just like an. An exchange, which is what makes all of this worth it for both people. I want to be super clear. In the highly polarized place, it's. It's like both partners are getting something from each other. Right? There's an energetic exchange. There's a reciprocity, then inspires us to do more of the thing that often nourishes our partner. And then they're doing the thing that nourishes us. And it's really great in that, you know, we focus so much on the work we do with men of getting into your body and getting connected to your body and your sensations just at a basic level. And that's where a lot of this starts. Because if you're not in your body and you don't know what you want or do. You don't even have a clue. All the. Everything we're talking about here is so much harder. And that is often a problem. A lot of the men that a lot of every human being at this point in this planet deals with is there's just so much that gets us out of our body or gets us distracted or helps us numb out or not be present or not connected to ourselves that we have to do work to get in there, to get clear, to be able to step forward in these ways and realize what I want or even realize, wow, I'm actually not happy. Like, and I don't mean that in the, you know, guys sometimes will come into the come to us. And that's kind of like more in the theoretical cognitive. Like, yeah, it's just kind of flat and I don't know, it's not going well. Then we'll do some work and guys will actually get into the emotion in their body of, oh, this is really painful. This is in fact, so painful. I can't live like this anymore. I just. I can't do it in. There's often an immediacy to. Once we actually come present to the real emotions and energy inside of us that demands action. Like, it actually, in my experience, like, when I've left relationships or left jobs, when I've really come to terms and allowed myself to feel what's true in my body, it's not often I can't keep it persisting for months or years. It's when it's slightly numbed out and I'm a little removed from it. But when I really feel it of, like, now, actually, this is not working for me at all. Something has to change here. That's where my masculine often comes forward of like, okay, so I got to do something different here. That this is unacceptable. And that certainly happened, you know, in my relationship and in many men, you know, we've seen. But it's just that that willingness to. The willingness to go, I think is just. There's just something too, like, okay, here we go, without having to figure it out ahead of time, of just like a willingness to start moving forward, I think is the thing that will often repolarize these relationships and bring a lot of juice and energy back to it. And, you know, it always blows me away. Having done this work for so long now. How many guys come to us and, like, it's not even that they have flat relationships, but, like, their relationship is one of the biggest sources of stress in their life. Right? It's for some guys in particular guys who had bpd, but even guys who. It's just gone off the rails for so long. It's kind of like being day to day at war. You're just nervous system's always on edge. You're always like trying to win. There's like a hardening that happens in just the flip of that that's possible when we do get into a polarized, a healthy relationship, which again, a healthy polarized relationship does not mean I'm 100% in my masculine all the time. And it just means we're able to touch into this enough that we both feel the juice, that we both feel that spark. And that spark carries us through the majority of the rest of our life, which is not polarized. But you have to have a certain, there's like a certain dosage, so to speak, that makes it all worth it and makes the relationship itself become re, rejuvenating in the relationship. Your, your energy with your partner becomes like, it becomes a source of well being to help you deal with life. Right. It's like, ah, life's just never gonna let up to some extent. But my relationship can be a place where I go to for energy and nourishment and rejuvenation that then helps me be out in the world in a different way. And it shocks me how few people I, I've come to know actually have that in the relationship. And, and then I, I'm not surprised sometimes where men wonder like I don't even know if it's worth it to be in a relationship. It's just so much work. And of course, yeah, you're not getting any of this stuff back, but oftentimes it's because we're, you know, complicit in that in terms of how we're showing up in, in ourselves and not fully claiming what we want or sharing our truth or being connected to, you know, where we think we need to go in life.

Melanie Curtin: Yeah. Thank you for speaking to that because that's such a, such an important part of this is, you know, witnessing men come into their bodies and actually get in touch with what do I really want and what do I really not want. Right. What are boundaries that I do need to set in my life in order to feel more resourced in order to bring that energy to my relationship. You know, there's a lot of different elements here, but it's, it's pretty exciting watching that kind of transformation. It's, it's kind of like a Polaroid coming into, into Crispr. Crispr view. Like, oh, this is. This is really the life that you want. It's this. Not this thing that you've been tolerating. And I think that that's just. I just think that's very well said that a lot of. Of men that we work with have been tolerating a lot of, frankly, misery for a long time, whether that's in relationship or not. And it's brave. It's courageous to try a different. To try something new to. Yeah, to do something else. Right. To get into the, you know, the program or the therapy or the workshop or the, you know, the actual doing, not just consuming information, but taking action and doing. That's brave. That's brave. And that's really where I think the rubber meets the road. And, yeah, it's just. I'm constantly struck by how. How brave it is and how continually brave it is. Right. It's brave every step of the way. And braveness is where aliveness lives. That's where the juice is. That's where, you know, Brene Brown talks about courage. There is no courage without risk. If there's no risk, then it's not courageous. It is. It is the risk. And I. I think a lot of our clients have come in, you know, with a certain sense of, like, I don't want to rock the boat too much in my relationship because I don't want to lose it, and I want it to be better. So there's a. There's. There is. There's risk around the. The hard conversations. And it's part of why being held in a container, being held in a community is so important, because you have a safe place to come back to, to start from. Like, all of that matters in having. In doing the brave things with a partner or family members or whoever it is, because you know that you're not alone, that you are held by something greater. It makes being brave a whole lot easier. Being brave alone is really hard. So I want to just touch briefly into repolarizing and conscious relationship when you know about this stuff, when you're. When you're fluent in polarity with a partner. This comes from another one of our graduates. He says one example that comes to mind is a couple times I noticed my woman being very much in her masculine. She was stuck in her head, making logical and analytical observations, talking fast, and being a little bit emotionally closed. What I did is I tuned into her experience, recognized that she was in her masculine, and kindly said, hey, babe, I think you're in your masculine right now. And she stopped and said, oh, my God, you're totally right. And then she took some breaths and gave me a hug and softened into her feminine. So in this situation, I had the presence and attunement from the growth work I've done with you all to provide her the awareness of what was happening in the moment. This was enough for her to course correct and get back into her primary essence. Now, that is not going to work with everyone. I just want to be really clear. That is not going to work with everyone. But when you do have shared language, when you do have this grounding together, you know, there's a lot that can be done there. And I'm remembering a moment when I was really upset and frustrated about this text that I'd gotten from a friend. And I was like stewing and doing my thing and stuff. And, um, my man came up and just held me. He just physically held me and breathed really deeply. And that had me relax and soften. And I probably cried, honestly, I don't remember the details, but that is another example of. Of repolarizing, right? She's in her head, she's all stressed out, she's upset. I'm not going to convince her otherwise. I'm not. I'm not going to engage on that level. But I'm going to physically hold her and breathe deeply. And as you and I have said many times, whoever is breathing more deeply in any moment is holding the masculine pole. Whoever is breathing more deeply is holding the masculine. And I was able to soften and allow my flow to come through, right? All the tension that I was holding in my body, which often tension in our bodies results in rumination in our heads. And I was able to kind of give some of that to him, to kind of give my weight to him and allow him to hold me and soften. And so I think that's one of the great growth edges for the feminine is learning how to soften, right? Being willing to soften, being willing to open, being willing to be held. And one of the great growth edges for the masculine, for people who like to hold alpha, is to straighten, to straighten up, to hold space, to breathe deeply, to be grounded, to be that sense of support and safety and rootedness that someone can relax into. Those are both growth edges, and both people need both skills. It's not like one or the other is. I guess I think often in these conversations it can make it seem like you have to be an alpha all the time. And that's not true. That's not what we're saying plenty of moments. Plenty of moments when what's called for on your side is to soften and to allow. And I'm thinking about, you know, things you've talked about in men's groups of just really allowing men to hold you and to, to soften and to let go and to let it all hang out. Like, you gotta have spaces for that and you gotta be able to do it when those spaces are available. You can't just hold it all in. It doesn't work. That's not. That doesn't work. It doesn't allow you to be relaxed in your body, which means you can't be. You can't really hold the position of alpha when you're tense. It's a relaxed and open position of groundedness. So there's a. There's a balance to all of this. Both people need to have access to both states and for polarity, especially sexual polarity. Yeah, there's. There's nothing hotter than, like, he's holding me, he's holding me. He's got me. And I'm. I'm just, like, letting it out.

Jason Lange: Yeah. I think what I want to highlight there, and in that last share too, is it's not like when he said, like, you're in your masculine, that it'd be bad for her to ever be in her masculine. It's not like you have to be in your feminine, otherwise this isn't going to work. What he was cluing into there is, oh, it's not serving her right now to stay in this frame. Right. It's actually hurting. Like her body is closing and hurting. So I'm going to guide her out of that to something else. Not because her being in her feminine is better than her being in her masculine necessarily. There's moments in time. She absolutely has to be in her masculine, and she should be. And there's moments in the relationship where she should be as well. But the key to all this is as we get to know our partner and understand these things. It's. It's in service of them. It's not because you're supposed to be because you're a woman. It's because I see you suffering right now in how you are. And I know you well enough to know if we shift this energy a little bit, it'll feel easier for you. The moment will be better for you, actually. And that's, that's what makes it a loving act of leadership. And on both parts, in both directions. You know, in the many ways the feminine of my wife can do this with me all the time of cluing me into how not present and not in my body I am. Right? Like, you're not even here right now. Like, where are you? And it's like, oh, you're right, I'm not here at all. And oftentimes when I'm not here at all, generally rumination is a place of suffering. Like that's it just it is. And both partners can kind of guide back. So in my sense, you, you know, could guide me back to. And then I take a deep breath and I kind of ground down and my whole energy changes. And then her energy changes and then our energy changes and it becomes really beautiful in that sense, in that nobody teaches us these skills. Really. This is why another reason, in addition to neglect or certain things that happen to us, like, nobody's teaching us this stuff. All the stories and movies, particularly in mass media, they end with. And they were happily ever after, right? They, they, they aren't about like, oh, how do we keep this going? 30, 40 years down the line? And we do work with a lot of couples now or, you know, men in relationship and even our guys who come in as single. I say this stuff is awesome for your dating life and for the early part of relationship, but it is 100 necessary for a long term thriving relationship. Right? One that still actually brings energy into your life. I think that's the thing that these skills important over time because once we cross that threshold, as I sometimes talk about, like the polarity isn't there natural. It's like there's a, there's like a bucket full of natural polarity. When you first meet someone through hormones and just life circumstances that's pretty full. And over time that bucket starts to drain. And if you don't know how to refill it, that's when couples, then they have, you know, oftentimes left kids or move in together or start work. Like there's just nothing there in the tank anymore and neither person's really happy. And oftentimes that's when they come to us. You know, that's when guys in particular, and that's one of the cool things we're seeing now is, you know, for a long time it was like women were taking the lead. And we're seeing a lot of men come to us now who are like, yeah, I'm just not happy with how things are. And so I'm going my. And then that's what actually kick starts their wife's whole journey, their partner's whole journey into knowing themselves more coming into the relationship. And I think it's super exciting to. To see that emerging right now.

Melanie Curtin: Yeah. And I. I love what you said there because that's definitely a pattern we've seen where I. I can't tell you how many men we worked with where they're doing the work. And after they've been doing the work for a little while, their woman is like, I want to do the work. I want to. You know, I can see how much you're bringing and how much you're trying and how much you're showing up. And it inspires me. I want to do this too. I want to open more. I want to, you know, deal with my sexual trauma. I want to relax into my feminine. I don't even know what the fuck that means, but I want to try to figure it out. Like, there's something really. Yeah, there's something inspirational about. It's. It's that leadership, like we said. It's like, I'm going. I'm going to salsa. You're invited, you know, and it's your choice. You get to choose. I'm not, I'm not forcing you. I'm not. You're not obligated. I'm doing this thing. I'm on the track. I'm taking the path, and I would love for you to join me. So, yeah, I'm remembering, I guess, one last success story. There was a really sweet moment that one of our men had one of these sort of tough conversations and staked his claim. He was like, I want us to be closer. I want us to feel closer as a couple. And she was sort of like, oh, God, what does that mean? Like, what, you know, what is. What does that actually mean? And he kind of laid out some of what he, what he meant by it. And he's like, and I'm open to other suggestions, etc. And it was a week or two later, there's some moment later when they were in at an event together. And one of the things that they had talked about was love languages. And one of his was physical affection. They hadn't had so much of that in their relationship. And so they were at this event and she grabbed his hand, she held it. She held his hand at the event spontaneously. And it was such a sweet moment of him feeling like, oh, wow, the seeds that I planted are. Are growing. And it's such an indication. That's kind of what I meant about it. That's an indication that she's meeting him. She's trying to. She's leaning in. She's she's returning that. She's in. She's in the relationship. She might not know how to do all of it. It might not all be smooth yet, but it's like, hey, I'm here, too. I'm a. Yes, I see you. I'm trying to, you know, and there's something really lovely. I'll never forget that moment of him describing that sense of just like, oh, like love. Like sweetness and love and the kind of just warm. You know what you're talking about, Jason? Of like, oh, my life is better because you're in it. My life is more full and more radiant and more connected. More connected because of our connection. And. And relationships are hard. They're a lot of work. They're. They're one of the toughest places, I think, for spiritual growth on the planet. And so we need those moments. We need those. We need that softness, we need that delight to. To keep the garden alive. You know, that's the fertilizer. That's what helps it grow and develop and be nourished. And I think that as we wrap up here, something that really inspires me is the work that you do as men directly impacts your family as well. If you're someone that has children or is going to have children, you are breaking patterns, possibly for centuries, ancestral patterns, by doing this growth work, because you. The transmission of who you are and how you're showing up in your relationship is being picked up by the children. The children are learning from you what relationship is. And as you learn to do this and shift and change your relationship, the way you mentor the next generation will shift, and the way that they show up will shift. So I think there's something. There's a bigger picture here about being of service in the world, is something that we often think about as doing things for others. But when you work on yourself, when you do your own growth work, you are serving the world and you are serving your family and everyone that comes after you.

Jason Lange: Just one thing I want to. Kind of. One last thing. I want to tie things together here of like, okay, so I know all the reasons, but, like, how do I do it? And, you know, obviously there's countless ways to do that, and that's really the work we do with men. But one of the most important things is like, building a life for yourself again that exists independently of your relationship. I know that sounds like a weird thing. And a lot of times we're like, well, I thought my relationship was supposed to be everything. But one of the most important things we See, men do is, yeah, actually build a life so that there's other stuff going on in their. In the world in terms of their work and their meaning in the world, their relationships. And one of the ways I've seen that most easily manifest is getting into men's work and doing a program like ours. Because literally putting your attention on the program itself means your attention isn't on the relationship all the time. And that in itself is a polarizing thing. It's because there's a little bit of distance there, right. Like twice a month I go to men's group here in la and that's four hours a month I don't share with my partner. I know it sounds really small, but it's an experience I have independently of her. And that creates just. There's always a little bit of that mystery. When I come home, I was group like, what was going on? What was your night? Right. There's polarity in that. That's part of what we're talking about here. So your willingness to kind of step in and in create a life for yourself, whatever it may be, that that's part of the polarity there because it's going to create some of that. Some of that distance that's actually needed for a certain amount of polarity to exist. Right. If we're in the same room with each other all day long, it's. It takes a lot of work to generate this stuff. But when, oh, she's going off and doing this thing, I'm going off and doing this thing. And then, you know, I always have this experience when I do men's work now of like, what a amazing benefit or positive or it was like, unexpected of like, how joyful it is to be away for a few days and feel that genuine, like, I can't wait to get home and see my wife and kid. Right. That. It's not that I don't love being with them day to day, but it's. It's just different when you're away for a couple days. And then it's like, I actually cannot wait to go back and be in that space with them. And that's polarizing, right? Because then she feels that the moment I walk through the door.

Melanie Curtin: Oh, that's inspiring. I like that. So, yeah, as we start to wrap up here, if you are interested in our work, you can take our free training at Evolutionary Men, slash training. And if you are interested in supporting the podcast, you can also become a patron. Just Google Dear Men Podcast, Patreon. And if you join a 10amonth level or more, then you will get access to a live Q and A every month. I think we just had ours a week and a half ago, so another one in mid April. And again, that's evolutionary. Men slash training. If you are interested in the program and regardless of whether you work with us or someone else, I think that some of the key takeaways here are yes, get quality mentorship and get a life. I'm just kidding. Like build. Build a life that you love with time away from your partner. And I would say definitely men's work. Just closeness and support from other men. Wolves thrive in a pack. You need a pack. Lone wolves die. So find your pack.

Jason Lange: T.