All right, so I just had a great conversation on the Purple Passion Project podcast with the host. We covered a lot of ground around sex, shame, and why men's groups are so powerful for transformation.
One thing we dug into pretty deeply is this pattern I see constantly with the guys I work with. So many men were raised in a culture that taught them their sexuality is somehow bad or dangerous. Maybe it was religious messaging, maybe it was the fallout from Me Too, maybe it was just growing up watching porn as their primary sex education. Whatever the source, the result is the same: they end up so up in their heads during intimacy that they can barely be present with their partner. They're constantly asking permission, worrying about doing something wrong, terrified of making her uncomfortable. The impulse is good, right? They genuinely care. But the outcome is they end up being timid and withdrawn when what a lot of women actually want is a man who's comfortable enough in his own skin to just lead the experience sometimes.
We also talked about something that doesn't get enough attention: how safety and relaxation impact men's bodies too. Most guys know women need to feel safe to get turned on, but they don't realize the same is true for us. If you're walking around stressed, exhausted, holding tension in your body from work or life, that's going to show up in the bedroom. And here's the thing, it's rarely the ED itself that ends the evening. It's when we collapse in shame and disappear emotionally. That's the real turn off. When we can stay present, keep the connection alive, explore other ways to be intimate, that changes everything.
The shadow work piece we covered is huge too. A lot of men are spending enormous amounts of energy just containing emotions they don't know how to deal with. That locked up grief, anger, fear, it's literally draining your life force. And if you're not comfortable with those feelings in yourself, you won't be able to stay present when your partner feels them either. That's where men's groups become so powerful, doing this work with other men who get it.
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Host: This is the Purple Passion Project with host and clinical sexologist Dr. Stacy Friedman. This is your go to podcast for raw, real and irresistibly juicy conversations about sex, intimacy, connection, and everything in between. Whether you're feeling a little stuck in your love life, curious about what turns you on, or just craving conversations that actually matter in the right place. So now please welcome the host of the purple passion project, Dr. Stacy Friedman. What do you get when you mix purple passion and permission to be your true self this podcast? Hi, I'm your host, Dr. Stacy, and this is the Purple Passion Project coming to you live and unfiltered. It's the show where we talk sex, intimacy, connection, and everything underneath the surface. Because, let's be honest, small talk is boring. And you're ready for the good stuff. So relax, drop your guard, get ready for some truth, laughs, maybe a few gasps, and a whole lot of passion. So today we are diving into the world of men, masculinity, intimacy with Jason Lange. He's a men's embodiment coach, group facilitator, and Certified no More Mr. Nice Guy Coach who's helped men wake up to deeper clarity in their purpose and relationships. So for over 20 years. Oops. For over 20 years, Jason's been committed to men's work, discovering firsthand how men's groups transform not only individual lives, but also intimate partnerships, families, and communities. So let's introduce Jason to the stage. How are you?
Jason Lange: Hey. Hey. So excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
Host: That's great. I'm looking forward to it because I know how important sometimes these groups have been. I've done some men's groups as well, and being able to have a community of people to talk about things that may not be as, you know, in the society as you know. Okay. Is nice that you're able to do things like that.
Jason Lange: So, yeah, appreciate it. I love it. I'm super passionate about it.
Host: Awesome. Awesome. Well, I can't wait. So we'll just get right into it. And I wanted to talk to you. You had said that you've done all work for about 20 years working with men. And so what was that point when you realized that this changes everything? This is something that you wanted to do? What was that shift and how did you get into it all?
Jason Lange: Yeah, really? I think like a lot of coaches, that started with my own journey. So I got into men's work and somatic work and healing and transformation. In my 20s. I was a guy who was raised in a household where there was a lot of Emotional and physical neglect. Just in the sense of no real connectivity. Like, everyone was just kind of in the same house, you know, existing. My needs. My needs were taken care of, but there was no touch. There was no emotional connection. And, you know, when you're a kid, you don't necessarily know there's anything wrong with that. And then come out into the world and adolescence and teenage years and realize, oh, hey, like, my experience was different. And it really started to show up for me when it came to dating and relationships. And in my case, I'm heterosexual. So as I became attracted to women and my body would freeze up, I'd get really uncomfortable and sweaty. I didn't know how to talk to them. I'd get really angsty in my head. And I saw friends creating relationships and experiences as I got older. And I. I would just get really stuck and actually quite uncomfortable when I got close to women. And it was so painful. It kind of kicked off a journey of, okay, there's gotta be a different way to do this because it doesn't seem like it's that hard for other people. So what's going on? Right.
Host: Like, what's wrong with me?
Jason Lange: Yeah. Lo and behold, that just, you know, took me on a journey inside to learn more about my family system and histories. And it was really through that searching, I came across men's work and men's groups and started to have an experience of, oh, yeah, okay. I also never really had a strong masculine presence in my life. My dad was just working all the time. He was doing the best he could for the family, but there was a lot of guidance I didn't get and a lot of discomfort of just being in my body. So that kind of kickstarted me just hungry for change and transformation and got around some. Some men that guided me, started getting more in touch with my body in this work and then finally started to have some success and experiences with women in my mid to late 20s. And then I just kind of stayed with it because it was. Out of all the things I tried, the thing that was really changing me the most with regularity and not just relationships, but then career and health, like, all transformation. Yeah. And at some point, I honestly just talked about it so much. I just talked about my men's group so much. Guys started asking me, like, oh, hey, can I come? Can I join? And the group I was in at the time was when I was living in Los Angeles and we just met in the office of one of our guys who was a therapist. So we could only fit Eight people, right? There was just no more room. So then I was like, well, maybe I'll start leading stuff out of my living room. And I started doing drop in meetings just basically every other Monday night for a number of years in la, posted them on meetup and started to have such a rewarding experience of creating these men. I was like, well, I like this. I want to get some more training and do this more. And it's kind of just taken off from there.
Host: That's so cool. And it's such, it's so needed, you know, I had a client that, with her and her husband, they were together for like 10 years. And I remember she came into the office with him and she said something about the way he was sexually or intimately. And she literally said in the office, she's like, just be a man already. And I looked at her and I was like, no, no, no, we don't say these things because, you know, what does that even mean? And it was such, it was in a, in a context of kind of putting the person down. And so I've heard that term a lot and, or grow some balls or something like that, you know. And I think that men's work is so important right now more than ever because these things are said all the time and we need to normalize that it's okay for men to have emotions and be intimate and vulnerable. And so why do you think that there's this shift or that it's so important right now?
Jason Lange: Yeah, well, I think if we kind of look at the trajectory of maybe take a zoom out here. Right. For there's plenty of historical context and evidence in the modern day of what happens when men are disconnected from their hearts in terms of the damage they can cause in relationship to kids, to the environment and whatnot. And many men I work with, like, like you said, I particularly work with a lot of so called nice guys which, like my buddy Dr. Glover who created, who wrote the book. The book sells more copies every year than when he published it. Right. So it's just growing in a sense. But the trajectory I kind of see is a lot of men were raised either by volatile men who were dangerous and not safe to be around, or who didn't have control over their addictions or sexual compulsions or whatever, or just didn't have access to their emotions or, or they were bullied by other men who were like that or they just, you know, particularly I think in younger generations, even younger than me, they were raised in a context of me too, that really every day There was like, another news cycle about, oh, my God, here's another horrible man who did this horrible thing and harmed all these people. And so it's created a desire. Like, literally, this is something guys say to me is, I don't want to be that guy. I'm afraid of being that guy. That is seen as being a misogynist, objectifying women, just using them for sex. And the trouble it's created then is there's a little bit of baby in the bathwater. So then they totally disconnect, right? From. I don't want to be too forward, direct. I never want to make a woman feel uncomfortable or unsafe. And so the impulse is great. The impulse is one of care, but the result is for not all women, but for a lot of women particularly, that end up with these kind of guys I work with and I include myself as one of these kind of guys, what they're missing is a man who's comfortable in his own skin and kind of goes for what he wants, including sexually, like leading in the bedroom, in terms of, okay, I'm just going to direct the. The experience. A lot of guys, nice guys I kind of work with, are so concerned with doing something wrong, uncomfortable doing it wrong, or not giving her a good experience that it's. They're timid, right? Can I do this? Can I do this? Can I do this? And basically, the essence of it often is they're so up in our. Sometimes as men, we can get so up in our heads wanting to do it the right way, create safety. When we're up in our heads, constantly asking, is this okay? Guess what that does to our partner? It brings them up into their heads, Right? Right. Yeah. Right. So they're not in their body. They can't relax. They can't enjoy it. We're not relaxed. We're not enjoying it. And it has all kinds of downstream effects then, too, right? Of ED and performance anxiety and all this stuff that often hits these men so that, you know, the. The work for not all men, but a lot of men that are, you know, at least interested in podcasts and transformation and all the things that, you know, probably magnetize men to you and me is to realize that it's not either or you don't either just have to have a sweet, safe, sensitive heart or just be kind of a raging, crazy man. We can have heart and we can have balls.
Host: Right?
Jason Lange: A lot of women are longing to feel both. A man who. Not just because he's the man, he has to do it all the time. Like My way, the highway. Highway dominating. But that he has the capacity to take the lead.
Host: Right.
Host: Just do it?
Jason Lange: Yeah. Can you just do it? Can you just guide me through an experience? Right? And I think that's the. The impulse maybe behind that. Can't you just, you know, be a man or go for it? Is. Is sometimes a longing to just like, hey, I've chosen you as a partner. I want you. I love you.
Host: I trust you.
Jason Lange: I trust you. Yeah. Let me just. Just go for it, you know, kind of lead the way a little bit. But there's just so much behind that. That gets a lot of guys, you know, stuck up in their bodies and.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: In their heads and not taking confident action. You could say it's true.
Host: And it definitely does kill a lot of the vibe many times when they're tossed between, like, you said that. Me too. Versus trying to be too nice. Because I work with clients all the time that are like, well, I just don't, you know, this is my wife. I don't want to treat her like a slut or, you know, like that. I'm like, but she's telling you she wants to be handcuffed. She's telling you she wants you to throw her down on the bed. She's telling you she feels safe for you. To do that. But the messages that they're getting is. Is difficult to kind of navigate. So.
Host: Right. And it's very similar sometimes for women too. Because for so many years when you're younger, you get sleep shamed when you actually show it. Because women are not supposed to be horny. Men are supposed to be horny, you know, and so it's like, it's like the complete opposite, but the exact same results. And so we have to be able to stop the shame and allow people to be who we are. And so, you know, obviously you said you see that a lot as eyes do. I. What are some things that you do to help them let go of some of that shame? Because it can completely ruin a sexual experience.
Jason Lange: Yeah, you know, a lot of it. Again, most of the work I do is in, in groups. And so part of it's actually just joining, you know, joining a group. I imagine you create a sex positive culture that it's like, hey, actually, you know, in the, in the work I do, the things I lead, like, we think sex is awesome and that everybody deserves to have a very enjoyable, pleasurable sex life. And that honestly, the better sex people are having, the better everything goes in life. Right? As parents, the more connected we are sexually, the better our relationship is, which flows into our kids. And, like, it's a. It's a big deal, and we're just not really taught a lot of this as well. Right. Which is where I think shows like yours have to kind of fill the educational gaps of. For a lot of kids, it's either porn or PE or the health class. Right. In. In. In school, which is like the basic minimum, but doesn't actually talk about what pleasure is, what safety is.
Host: No, it's like, don't get pregnant. Don't get disease. Boom.
Jason Lange: Yeah, good luck. And then we're like, you know, guys are so terrified or mostly raised and educated by porn videos, which creates such a distorted view of what intimacy is. Right. And not. Not only does it impact women in terms of the expectations of what bodies are supposed to look at, but, I mean, I've been shocked how much it actually impacts men too, because, again, going back to the shame, so many guys I work with, they have this story because they watch porn that I should be able to get hard on demand. I should be 10 inches instantaneously. Right. That just no matter what, I should be able to turn it on and go as long as I want. And. And. And, you know, and like a jackhammer at that. Like, that's what women want. Right. And it creates such a challenging framework. Right. For them to then come into, which is like, no, none of that's true. And, you know, one of the things you and I first talked about that I think is starting to get more attention is, you know, most guys I work with know that. Yeah. For, you know, for. For most women, safety is a big part of their turn on. If they're not feeling safe, it's hard to relax into your body and get turned on. But the same is actually true for men. And more men than a lot of people realize that if we're not feeling emotionally safe or we're too worried about performance or judgment, it's hard for us as well. And when guys start to understand that something does relax, where it's like, okay, yeah, sometimes you normalize it because you don't feel safe.
Host: Right?
Jason Lange: That's it. There's not enough connection.
Host: Absolutely. It's important to normalize that because erectile dysfunction, performance anxiety, all these things, you know, come into it all. And like you said, especially with, like, porn and things like that, they're worried, well, I'm only 6 inches versus 10. I'm not going to be good enough. I'm like, that's bigger than average. Okay, you're doing just fine. And for most women, it's not even about the size. It's about what you're doing to please your partner and how you're paying attention to their body. And so if we can help get men out of their heads and the reality of what it means to be connected, what it means to be intimate, we can get rid of some of that performance anxiety and erectile dysfunction.
Jason Lange: Exactly.
Host: Yeah. I mean, they're carrying it around all the time when they're in relationships. And I see people, especially getting divorced and going into dating, and they're like, well, I'm afraid that if I meet someone, I've only been with one person for 20 years. What is she going to think if I can't get it up? Have a conversation. Tell her that you're a little nervous. Hopefully, if she doesn't understand, go to somebody else that will, you know, Totally.
Host: And women expectation also, you know, women's like, well, he knows me. He should know. I'm like, no one should just know.
Jason Lange: What you want or need.
Host: That's what talking is for.
Jason Lange: Precisely. There's like, A learning in teaching each other and.
Host: Right.
Jason Lange: Of. Yeah, here's what works for me and my body, because my body's totally different than someone else's body. Right. You know, and it changes day to day too. Right. Just because you did this yesterday and it worked doesn't mean that's where my body is today. Right. I think that a lot of guys have to get used to as well. Wait, you mean I can't just follow the exact same script every time? No. Right. That's where the more we're in our bodies, the more we can feel our partner's bodies and intuit. Where is she opening? Where is she closing? But if we're not in our bodies, we lose all of that information. And again, then we'll get more up in our heads and we'll be thinking about it and we just. We lose out on quite a bit. So it's learning to communicate, to even pause to take time to check in. You know, it's some simple skill building in some sense that as men learn it, not only do they feel more safe, but their partners feel more safe and just kind of gets more fun. Because then it's like an exploration that never ends versus, oh, my God, a thing I have to do. Right? Otherwise, xyz.
Host: Absolutely. In my book that I have, I have a chapter specifically on exploration and how important it is. And you can get a free copy if anyone hears this. On my website, Dr. Stacy Friedman, there's a free PDF, but on the exploration, it's exactly what you mentioned, is that for so many men, if they do have any type of erectile issues, I always recommend to just take sex off the table for that night. Explore the body. How many times have you been in bed with a person and have never kissed their ankle or have never kissed their knee? And people look at me like, oh, gosh, I've been with them for 20 years. I've never done that. Explore the body from head to toe without that pressure and. And take that off. So that way the person has that safe space like you're mentioning. It's so important to just have exploration.
Jason Lange: And I mean, it ties right into, you know, one of those really interesting things. Most guys don't realize, right, that in terms of our arousal system, right, we call it an erection, and in some sense it's an activated state, but it requires us to be in a parasympathetic relaxed state.
Host: Right.
Jason Lange: So our blood vessels can open.
Host: Right?
Jason Lange: Right. So if we're not relaxed, our blood vessels in our penis can open and the Erection doesn't happen. So when we talk about safety, relaxation, no pressure, those things matter, both in the bedroom and then for a lot of guys, you know, the edge too, is, hey, it also starts outside the bedroom. If you're walking around so stressed out and exhausted that you're carrying all of this tension in your body. Even if you have a totally relaxed, open, communicative partner, you may still have challenges sometimes. And that's when it gets into, like, how are you sleeping? How are you eating? What are your boundaries at work? These are big things that sometimes guys are like, wait, what that impacts this? It's like, yes, if you're holding all that stress, your body can't relax. So there's things to do inside the bedroom and outside the bedroom. And that's where, you know, a lot of the work I do in groups, in terms of getting our lives a little bit more oriented and regulated, really helps. Really, really helps in the bedroom, too.
Host: It's a balance of, of everything. And that's why meditation can be so important for women to be able to open up, for men to be able to open up, because anything, like you said, through the day is going to affect you when you get into the bedroom. You know, that's kind of where it all should just be released and let go. Excuse me. And many times when people will say that they have issues with performance anxiety or erection issues, they go, they get frustrated, they feel shame, and then they stop. And I was like, don't stop, because if you get, oh, God, I can't get it up. I'm done. And then you walk away, then you're taking the entire moment of having sex into that one little thing of an erection. And so it's so important to be able to stop at that moment, take a breather, kiss, touch, hold, caress, whatever it is. Because. And this is for women to say, it is okay to the men when this happens. Don't shame them. Don't say, oh, God, why is this happening again? Make them feel safe. Because otherwise it is going to happen again if they don't have that safe space.
Jason Lange: So I think that's such a beautiful illustration of, you know, I've kind of heard it from both sides that sometimes for women that the fear is, oh, is it because he's not attracted to me? True. And just. Just to know that sometimes it has nothing to do, like, oh, I'm so turned on by you. But there's all this other stuff that's actually.
Host: It could have been something at work.
Jason Lange: Yeah, exactly. So that's Key on that side. But then what you said about the men, I mean, this is one of the main things I teach guys around. The shame part is it's rarely the Ed that ends the evening. It's when we collapse around shame.
Host: Right.
Host: Oh my gosh, really? I didn't know people.
Jason Lange: Yeah, right. That we, that we hold that, oh my God, it's got to look this way that I saw in the porn videos. And if I can't do that, I'm not a man. And she's gonna.
Host: Right. Open your mind.
Jason Lange: Yep. But there's so much else you can explore as a man, and that oftentimes. Right. Once you let go of the outcome and just reassert and focus on the connection, sometimes things do start to work again because then you relax and if they don't, it's okay. There's always next time. Jason Lange: Yeah, so I mean, shadow work can mean a lot of different things, but in essence it's becoming aware of that which is unconscious inside of us. So what are the beliefs or behaviors or scripts we're running by that we often don't even realize we're running by? And for a lot of men in particular, what it often points to, is there some kind of emotion I'm avoiding? And so my, my body, mind will construct these elaborate systems to do anything so I don't have to feel that. And shadow work is really the process of getting conscious of that. So we have more choice. And again, for a lot of men, particularly as we get older, energy management becomes a big thing. I just, I don't have enough energy for life. I'm too tired, like, I'm too exhausted. I feel.
Host: So I think we've all been there before.
Jason Lange: Yeah. By life and, and you know, it starts to connect to the, the culture most men are taught of. Masculinity means being invulnerable. Right. That's like kind of the M.O. out there that being a man means. You're tough and you're not vulnerable and nothing impacts you. And that's all a lie, right. In when we're avoiding feelings or we don't know how to deal with feelings just at a physiological level because you can, you know, the example I often give is, you know, imagine like a five year old boy who's in some kind of distress and, and deeply sobbing and crying and you know, dad comes up and he's like, stop crying.
Host: Right?
Jason Lange: How the boy does it is sucks it all back, hold his breath, he'll tighten up his body and he'll pack it in, actually contract to kind of lock it down. And we accumulate those Kind of lockdowns over life of all kinds of emotional content that we don't know what to do with as men. But guess what? That takes energy.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: So if I'm like, hey, flex your biceps and your core right now without moving, and you just like, tighten it up, it's like, okay. And if I'm like, do that for an hour. It's very tiring, very fast. Takes a lot of resource. So a lot of men are walking around, spending a lot of energy just containing, right? Yeah, containing. Their bodies are tight, they're clenching a lot. Which again, goes right then into how we show up in the bedroom. If we're tight and not relaxed in our bodies, sex doesn't go as well. Our partners aren't as relaxed in their bodies. So shadow work is really the process of starting to become aware of what am I holding or avoiding. That is taking my life force as a man. And a lot of times for some guys, the way they start to notice this is there's these things I keep doing that I don't want to be doing, but yet I do it anyway. Happen over, and I do it anyway. Why? Why do I do that? And shadow work is the process of going in and finding often the roots of that, of what might be unfelt, what kind of traumatic experience we had, what. What kind of internalization from our family systems, maybe we learned and we do the deep work to bring that emotional content to the surface because it, frankly, frees us. It actually frees up our life force, our vitality, our ability to be present, and our ability to actually choose what we want in the moment rather than often running these old protective scripts that we're just not even conscious of. And so for a lot of guys, you know, I'll have men come to me that there's things they've been holding on for decades, decades, that they're not even aware of or things they didn't. Things they've been in shame on and have been afraid to talk to someone about or fears around their sexuality or anger or fear or grief or whatever that might be.
Host: Just even going to a therapist is a lot of shame for many.
Host: Just listen?
Jason Lange: All I want. Yeah, all I want you to do is listen. You know, I'm a grown person. I can handle myself. I'm not asking you to fix it. I'm asking you to be present with me in it.
Host: Yeah.
Host: Right. Being able to have the conversation tiptoeing.
Jason Lange: Like so many of us guys do, which then, you know, like we said, rolls right into impacting our sex and our intimacy as well.
Host: Well, I feel that the men's group, I'm sure, is very, very helpful with connecting, because even just in. Not even sexual relationships, but personal, a lot of men may feel shame or embarrassment or difficulty even just expressing to some of their friends, because their friends might be like, what's wrong with you? You know, are you this? Are you that? Are. You know, why are you acting so weird sharing your feelings? And so it. You know, I'm assuming that because since I'm not in a men's group, but I've. You worked them before, that you believe everybody should be in a. Every man should be in a men's group. I feel that they can get that support. So give us a little example as to how your men's group works and how it could be so helpful for other men, because I think it's extremely important for men.
Jason Lange: Yeah. The idea is. And this is also. This is kind of the crux of a lot of the challenge for a lot of nice guys and a lot of men is we're raised in this culture of mostly seeing other men as a threat and competition and not safe to be vulnerable. Right. So we got to put on this tough face and hold it all together. And that stress has to go somewhere. So if we're holding it and we don't know how to move it, what do most men do to deal with their tension and stress? We turn to things outside of ourselves to try to change how we're feeling inside. Alcohol, weed, porn and masturbation.
Host: Violence.
Jason Lange: Yeah, totally. Right. And that stuff never really regulates us in the way we think. It might be temporary relief, but it doesn't deal with the thing underneath. So a good men's group, what it's doing is it's creating a space for us to get some of our connection needs met by other men. Sounds so simple, but could be touch, could be emotional, could just be deep presence of sharing what's going on in our lives in the experience of another man. Receiving that is often just revolutionary to a guy, where it's like, wait, it's not too much for you. And they're like, no, it's okay. You're pissed off. Like, bring it. Like, get angry. Like, it's okay. And suddenly the charge that we've been carrying through our lives has somewhere to move, has somewhere to go.
Host: They could breathe better.
Jason Lange: Yeah. We can literally relax more. Breathe more. We do some of this deep shadow work or release work that, like, men's bodies change. Right. Our eyes soften, our faces soften, color comes back, our diaphragm expands, our voice gets deeper. We're more in our bodies because we're not resisting all the feeling. And then a good group helps us get clear about what we're wanting in life, where we're feeling stuck in life, what the direction to get there is, and support us along the way. And can help us track the most important things in our lives over time, including intimate relationships. And what I've seen, particularly for nice guys is. Or a lot of them, like I said, they're so afraid of being alone.
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: Because they don't have a lot of connection in their lives. They will get into intimate relationships that are quite unhealthy. Right. Just to have something just because they're so afraid. So it's like, oh, my God, if it's either this or nothing. So, you know, even if she treats me poorly, even if we're constantly fighting, whatever, like, this is better than loneliness. Right?
Host: Right.
Jason Lange: And again, a men's group starts to resource us of like, oh, hey, well, what if. What if I felt connected even before I was in intimate relationship? And it tends to create a little bit more discernment of, okay, yeah, it's not working with this partner. I'm going to end things and I'm not going to be alone because now I have this tribe around. It gives you more confidence, care about me. Yeah, it gives us a lot more confidence.
Host: It gives.
Host: No, but the practice is important to give them the confidence.
Jason Lange: Exactly. We find it in our nervous system. So just like you would practice a speech, we have a place of, oh, I know what it feels like now to have my heart open and be direct. Right?
Host: Yeah.
Jason Lange: Or if we do go out, we do the default male thing, which is going out drinking side by side. And we. Right. Most men relate through triangulation. Me and you have our attention on a third thing. And we bond, watching the game, fixing the thing.
Host: Yes.
Jason Lange: Drinking. But then, you know, this is a real thing. I work with guys around, they just spent, you know, the whole weekend with their buddies, so to speak. But their buddies don't even know their marriage is about to end. Because we just like, I don't know how to. Where do I talk? We don't talk about that kind of stuff.
Host: Right.
Jason Lange: So you can be around men but still be quite alone in a sense. And what men's group teaches is, hey, put your attention on each other so you can talk about some of the other like in your life and go under the surface and realize, hey, you're actually not so special. All the guys are struggling with this kind of stuff. Right. And it's totally normal. And that in itself becomes so medicinal for men where it's like, oh, wait, I'm not Uniquely broken in a failure.
Host: Right?
Jason Lange: Turns out we all struggle as men, and there's things we're growing and ways we are stretching ourselves and having to practice. And a men's group really kind of does that in a powerful way where it gives men this space that. Yeah, I think a lot of women just more naturally do. They're. They're just in. In flow of connection. Hey, I'm having a really bad day. Okay, great. Tell me about it. And, you know, there. There's a certain type for both men and women of, you know, as. As they. They say in the healing work, like when you speak it, it gets lighter. It just. You start to speak it. It starts to move. The energy, that charge, that tension starts to have somewhere to go. And a lot of guys, well, I don't want to be a victim. I just want to be complaining all the time. I. It's not what we're talking about. You know, in a men's group, we give you room to move it, to share, to get vulnerable about it. And it'll often be met in, like, what do you want to do about that? Is there certain skills you need to build? Are there boundaries you need to set in your life? And, you know, a good men's group, over time is going to track that. So, you know, if you come in over six months and all you're doing is complaining about this one thing in your relationship, you're going to get feedback around. Well, what. What are you going to actually do to change that? Like, what needs to happen here in that level of, you know, Terry Real calls it carefrontation. I think a lot of men are actually longing for, right. Someone to actually step in and say, hey, you got spinach in your teeth, buddy. You know? Oh, thanks. Wow. I didn't know, like, you know, that fight you keep having with your.
Host: Appreciate it.
Jason Lange: Your wife. Turns out that might actually be more you. We've been listening to you for six months, and, you know, you keep saying it's her, but, hey, here's this thing you're doing. And then a man's got to actually look at that, right, and take some responsibility. But ultimately he gets supported in moving forward in his life.
Host: Can they go online, too, for your men's groups?
Jason Lange: Yeah, yeah, totally. A lot of what I do online, I mean, it's the nice thing about this moment in time is, you know, a lot of guys who are maybe in a more rural area or somewhere where there's not men's work, you can actually hop online and get connected. And it works, right? Even just over zoom, like, it works. So I run introductory men's groups. I run men's groups around dating and relationships, men's groups around shadow work. I do live retreats, and I have a podcast where I just kind of talk about all this Stuff that really kind of lays the path forward for men that, you know, even if you don't buy the, you know, emotional health stuff, it's just when guys start doing this work, I've seen it myself, they make more money, their sex gets better, their relationships get better, their health gets better. Like, it's very tangible outcomes. When we get connected to other men who can support us when we're down and frankly, yes, hold us accountable and challenge us when there's something important in our lives, we want to move forward.
Host: Perfectly stated. Lastly, if somebody is out there listening, besides joining a men's group, if they're feeling stuck, ashamed, and want to make a change, what can they do to start shifting that mindset? Maybe it is just go to a men's group.
Jason Lange: Yeah, I'd say. I'd say get connected to other men, for one, like you just said. And just. It's the biggest shift men can make is start to turn towards your emotions. We will spend our entire lives avoiding them. And the biggest life hack I found is just go right towards it. You just go right towards it, look.
Host: It in the eye, keep going and.
Jason Lange: Metabolizes so much faster. And we, we take more action and it's not nearly as scary as we think. And for men that feel, you know, really stuck, that one of the things I like to say is it's, you know, there's nothing wrong. You're not broken. Right. Often we're just disconnected and haven't been given the training for how to be present with ourselves emotionally. And a little bit, turns out goes a long way. And we get more comfortable in our bodies, we become more relaxed, we trust ourselves more. And yes, you know, Right, right. To bring it back. Like we become much more vital, connected sexual partners as well. It just gets more fun.
Host: Just improves. Everything just improves.
Jason Lange: Exactly.
Host: Very awesome. Awesome. Jason, thank you so much for being here and giving us a real look into what it. What men are craving, basically, what they're struggling with, how they could break free of shame, to be able to create that deeper intimacy that we all want to have in our relationships. So I appreciate you being here today.
Jason Lange: Thanks so much for having me.
