Melanie and I ended up in one of those conversations that felt like we were naming something every guy knows but rarely talks about openly. We were exploring what happens when your relationship looks perfect from the outside but the bedroom has gone completely cold, and honestly, the insights that came out of our exchange surprised even me.
We mapped out three main patterns I see constantly with the men I work with. First is what I call neutralized polarity. The roommate situation. You're managing kids, mortgage, schedules together, but the lover energy between you two just evaporated. Super common, and often exactly what these guys saw modeled growing up. Their parents got along fine, but there was zero intimacy or passion visible.
Second pattern is reverse polarity. This shows up a lot with nice guys like me who've maybe lost connection to their fire and power. They end up with partners who are leading everywhere, including the bedroom, and it just doesn't work for either of them. Sometimes this ties into guys who never quite differentiated from their mothers and want their partner to be both caretaker and lover. That's a tough dynamic.
Third area gets into values mismatches or deeper structural issues. Sometimes no matter how well you show up, the fundamental desire for sexual vitality just isn't shared. That's painful to hit, but important to know.
The thread through all of this is how a man's vitality and aliveness outside the relationship directly impacts what's possible inside it. When your only source of energy and connection is your partner, you create this vampiric need that kills polarity. Getting your purpose, your male friendships, your passions back online changes everything.
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Melanie Curtin: I would say I have left multiple partners for exactly this reason because they didn't have the support anywhere else. And I felt a little scared. Like if I stay with you, I'm it, man. I'm it. Like I am the only one that you are sharing the depth of your pain with, the depth of your closeness, your intimacy, even your love. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode. I'm thrilled to have Jason here, my co coach extraordinaire. Today we're talking about when your sex life isn't working in a long term relationship. Often many of the clients that come to us are married or questioning the marriage. Right. So maybe some divorce curious folks. So what do you do when your sex life isn't working but other things in the relationship aren't are working? You know, how do you decide what you're going to do when you particularly are married and you might have, let's say, you're co parenting some kids, you have a house together, you have intertwined finances. Right. You are in a committed partnership and your sex life isn't working. So we're going to talk about a couple of the patterns that we've seen in the men that we've worked with, how some of them have worked with it, and maybe how you can too. So one of our intentions with this episode is if this is a circumstance that you're going through for you to not feel alone. Because what we've seen is that in many of our clients, I think that sense of isolation and loneliness was one of the biggest issues when it came to solving this problem. Just felt overwhelming and all consuming and also kind of embarrassing and so something that they were sort of holding close to the vest. Whereas when it was brought to light, more and more consciousness was brought to became a little bit less. What's the word? Massive, maybe felt a bit less massive and sort of completely overpowering. So, yeah. So in terms of clients we've seen where their sex life isn't working, but other things are, you know, Jason, what would you say is one of the main patterns that you've kind of witnessed? And you've also done hundreds of calls with men as well. So you have a pretty, pretty wide, wide view of this. What is one of the most common things that you've witnessed?
Jason Lange: Yeah, one. A couple different places. One of the first I want to start with is what I think is actually a fairly, in some ways predictable and normal trajectory for a lot of traditional monogamous, married, hetero relationships. That's oftentimes the getting together, getting committed and Having kids and it's like the relationship just kind of stops. Two people get along day to day and instead of being lovers, they over time just become more and more managing life together, managing the kids, managing appointments, managing our mortgage, who's working, doing this, doing that. And it's like all that kind of polarity and connection between them two as individuals, independent of the family system or whatever kind of goes to the wayside.
Melanie Curtin: The couple itself. I know one of the things we've heard is we're just roommates. I've heard from countless men, right?
Jason Lange: We've heard that from countless guys we've worked with. And I've heard that from even more men who were raised in that. So one of the very common things I hear on some of the calls I first do with guys who are interested in working with us is. Yeah, how frequent that is. Where, you know, I don't know, we had a good family life. You know, my parents were nice to each other. And then as we dig in, it's like, yeah. And you know, did they. Did they have any intimacy or passion? And it's like, no, they were just two people in the same house getting along. Which doesn't mean things obviously weren't happening sometimes behind the scenes. But it wasn't modeled to them, which then our nervous systems absorb. I think a lot of the men that come to us didn't have that modeled for them and then kind of replay the same thing in their relationships.
Melanie Curtin: A lot of times there's something really heartbreaking about they were kind of just two people in the same house that feels really lonely. There's a way that, that feels really lonely. And that warm, gooey, sticky, fun, flirty, happy connection feels totally lacking. And one of the things I've often been surprised by, and we've discussed this before, is how much men will tolerate in terms of their. Their misery level. Just going to put it out there. You know, there are men that we talk to and we'll ask them how long they've. How long it's been like this and they'll say things like, oh, you know, 12 years. And I'm thinking you've gone through over a decade of, of loneliness and just disconnection and that, that sense of just being, just managing things with this person but not really having and. Or even maybe feeling judged by that person or. Right. Criticize.
Jason Lange: Super common.
Melanie Curtin: Not just a neutral energy, but a sort of like, I can feel her disapproval. I can. Or I can feel her disappointment or I can kind of feel her resentment or her you know, just. It's not working. And neither of us is addressing that head on. And, you know, a lot of the places. I mean, the whole reason we're doing this episode is because one of the main places this will show up is in a couple's sex life, right. They're not having sex. And one of the things I think we've heard a lot is sort of like, my wife doesn't really want to have sex with me anymore, or I feel like I'm kind of rejected a lot. Right. I'm trying. I'm trying to have sex with her and she doesn't want it. And it can be really confusing. Can be confusing, and it can just feel like fog. And then sort of, you know, a lot of the men it seems that we worked with before they worked with us had sort of given up in a way. There was a way that they had sort of this resigned energy around it. And we've seen, you know, transformation in a number of ways through this pattern. But, yeah, can you speak a little bit to that, that sense that you've gotten, the felt sense that you've gotten from the men in this position?
Jason Lange: Yeah, for some of them, it is kind of. It's almost like a defeated energy. Just like, what's the point? And so there's just like, this is kind of the way it is, which can be a really hard place for them to be in. And then, yeah, others, it's. It's sometimes even worse than that where it's. They're. They're kind of. They experience shame for it, that they, you know, that they still want to have sex. Why do you need sex, like, all the time? You know, that kind of thing, which then can often have them kind of collapse in on themselves even. Even more than that, you know, related to this in this kind of area as well. And this is an area where sometimes us men have our part, we play in that of, you know, not to put it the wrong way, but it's like not putting in the work to create the environment for romance or turn on or literally making the time for that kind of thing, I think, is one of the things that some of the guys we've started to work with and worked with over time are able to kind of bring it back. That it's like, oh, you know, yes, some. Some of their wives do kind of shame them and, you know, they're working through their own things. Others, it's. It's not like they don't want that. It's just they can't Go straight to that at the end of the day when you're just sitting in the bed and you haven't had connection beforehand. Right. Doesn't necessarily feel as good or open them in a way. And so there's a lot for men to kind of work on in this area which is I think one of the most important skills we need for long term relationship in that, you know, one of the stories I often tell is the, what I call the X cross of relationship. That when you start out, when you meet someone, lots of polarity, which in another way is there's lots of difference, there's lots of unknown, there's lots of novelty hormonally, story wise, connection wise, lots of turn on because you don't know someone. I don't know what is it like when I make love to them like this or this or in this environment or at this part of the day. And little attachment, little healthy attachment in terms of knowing each other, having bonded, built a lot of trust, built the sameness. And then as relationships progress, progress, it's like the level of polarity naturally or difference goes down. We start moving in with each other. We've heard each other's stories, we know each other's families, we kind of know what each other do in bed. Like some of that novelty isn't there by default anymore, let me just put it that way. And then our attachment starts going up. So we've built more connection with each other. We're sometimes moving in together, we have shared friends, sometimes we're working from home with each other. Oh, it's just a weekday, I'm not going to dress up, we're just hanging out. And at some point as that goes up and polarity goes down, they cross. Usually what I would kind of call after the honeymoon phase of the relationship, whether you literally are getting married or not. And then it's a whole different ballgame where there's so much sameness. But then a lot of people don't have the training, which is something, you know, we really work hard with our guys on, of how to recreate that chemistry, that attraction, that polarity long term because it doesn't automatically happen after a certain amount of time. Like, yeah, maybe like the weather, sometimes it just syncs up with the both of you. But if you're not consciously putting intention on that, it's, it'll, it literally will just evaporate. Like the, you know, dry is kind of the, like a relationship will just dry up and two people kind of pull that energy totally into themselves.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah. I'm thinking of one of our clients who will call Mitch for. For confidentiality purposes. And when he came to us, you know, I think there was a dynamic with his wife where he was often kind of waiting or asking permission of her for things, like, hey, do you want to do this? Should we do this?
Jason Lange: And.
Melanie Curtin: And kind of waiting on her for things. And I remember there was a turning point during the program where he said, you know, I just went and did this thing today. I didn't wait to ask her. I didn't say, should we do this thing? I went and did this thing. And then I said, I built this thing. Would you like to join me over here? You know, I did this thing. You want to come join me? And that felt deeply transformational to me because that energy was his masculine power. And it. It wasn't elaborate, it wasn't a huge decision. And then there was another time later on where he said, he said, you know, normally, again, he would sort of call her and say, hey, I'm thinking of getting take out or whatever. What do you think? You know, what. What do you want? Et cetera. And he said, I just went and got some. I got some. I took it home. I kind of know what she likes. You know, I tried something new and I brought it home. And I said, I got dinner. And he said, it felt completely different. It felt like a different him, a different energy, a different access to his own power. And I was really inspired by that because I think that's a very common pattern for a lot of couples, right? Of like, hey, what do you think? Hey, should we do this? And when, you know, we're going to put it in the male, female perspective, because that's kind of a lot of who we work with. But this works in any relationship. But when the person driving or when the person who wants to generate polarity drives, it does something to the other partner. To the partner who's more in their omega flow, right? In their flow. It's like, oh, you got dinner. Thanks. You know, I got to just show up. I just show up and I'm radiant. And it just happened. And you know, and it was time talking to another man. Same thing. We were sort of reflecting on his marriage, which he's transitioning out of. And I said, you know, because they had this dynamic we're talking about of our sex life isn't working, other things are kind of working in our relationship, but our sex life sucks. And I said, you know, when did you two have sex? Like, what? Because it was very infrequent it was probably maybe once a month, maybe once or twice a month, maybe. And a lot of that felt like obligation sex on her part. He said, it felt like she was just trying to appease me. And I said, you know, when. When did it not feel like that? And he, like, sort of paused and reflected, and he said, yeah, date night. And this was not surprising to me at all because it was like a little bit of what you referenced, right? It was like when he drove even a little bit, even a, we're going here and I'm taking you out. Just any kind of hedro. He led. And they were in a different environment. And by the way, driving and leading includes conversation. Like, I drove a conversation with my friend lately, me, Mel. I drove a conversation with my friend lately where I took us to brunch, and I said, let's do a reflection exercise where we talk about where we were 10 years ago, where we were five years ago, and where we were two years ago, which was just before the pandemic or just right when the pandemic hit, was an interesting contrast to see. And then a little bit of like, where do we want to go? Kind of thing as individuals. And that was driving. Driving and leading in a relationship doesn't have to be elaborate. And the shifts I've noticed in our men is that as they get more grounded and as they transform in our program, they're naturally leading more, they're naturally driving more, they're naturally showing up differently in their marriage, which inherently shifts the dynamic. And it doesn't always quote, unquote, work, Right? Meaning some men are married to women that are really difficult and don't really want to change or be open. But in this one that I was talking about with Mitch, what was so exciting was he had a really receptive woman. Right. It was so gratifying because he would get on our calls and he would talk about leading and doing all this stuff, and she would light up like she was excited about it, and it definitely improved our relationship. And one of the things that really touched me about him, and we've had several men lately that have been enrolling who've said, I know I need to be better in my marriage. I know I want to show up for my woman like she's trying, or I can tell that something needs to change. I know it's partly me. I'm committed. I want to do this. And there's something so inspiring to me about that because it's not just, I want to have a better sex life with My wife, which of course that's part of it for sure. And that's healthy and good. I must stand for that. But it's also deeply generous. It feels deeply generous of these men to say, I want to be a better partner, I want to be a better husband. I want our relationship to feel exciting and passionate. And it's really gratifying to actually see that working in men's lives. And for me as a woman to imagine like, wow, his wife's life just got better. That's fun. And they get to have more fun. And he feels more agency and more drive and more, you know, he got a promotion, he started making, making more money during the course of the program. I don't think that's an accident. I think as men are going through and transforming and upgrading that sense of drive and purpose and masculine power, it kind of affects everything in your life.
Jason Lange: And totally. I mean, yeah. Often talk to guys about this. There's almost always a hologram of what you're being called to bring forth in your deepest intimate relationship is often the same thing you're being called to bring forth in your work and your purpose out in the world. And they mirror each other. So as you sharpen and attune one, it'll start to shape the other and vice versa. Right. We're sometimes a win out in the world because we take a risk. We bring that energy back home to our lover or partner. And he was a great example of that where it started feeding both ways. And he really just felt a lot more empowered in his ability to create those types of experiences in his relationship. And you know, I think you could sum up this first dynamic is, you know, neutralized polarity. Right. It's just kind of. There's just kind of nothing there.
Melanie Curtin: The roommates.
Jason Lange: Yeah, the roommate situation, that's like neutrality, right? So it's kind of just like, yeah, we're just kind of here. There's not much juice and. And it's friendly. It oftentimes it can still be super friendly. We're like, we're still hanging out, we're watching movies, we get along, we go to things. But there's not necessarily. We're not really lovers in that sense of creating that energy between each other. And then one of the second areas that I've certainly spoken about before in some different places and has shown up in our men and is what I would call more the reverse polarity, which can show up in a couple different ways. We tend to work with a lot of guys like me who are Nice guys, big hearts, maybe sometimes a little less connection to their fire, to their drive, to their power. That often has a polarity to it and that we can sometimes then attract partners who are a little on the other side of that. Then as we start doing work, it starts to add some complexity to things on the one hand, but so, you know, there's that version of just the kind of really nice guy who then attracts a very determined woman or very just, you know, great things to have. But in terms of the relationship, things just always kind of don't really work particularly often in the bedroom in the way that both partners are really longing for. Again, they might be managing day to day fine, but in the bedroom it isn't quite working because outside of there, you know, she's in the lead and then in the bedroom she's kind of in the lead. And that's not often particularly opening to whoever's holding the feminine in the, in the partnership. There's another version of this one which is one I've seen too, which, you know, I would say is even maybe kind of a step deeper on that path, which I've. I've found for some guys who, you know, unsurprisingly, not all, but some unsurprisingly often had an absent or were disconnected from the masculine figure in their life and maybe had an over present or slightly enmeshed relationship with their, their mother that they never quite differentiated from. Is the desire is. Is guys who have a kind of slightly different polarity in that they do want, like they want to be super masculine in the bedroom, but they tend to kind of want their partner to be their mother the rest of the time. So.
Melanie Curtin: And they're not conscious of this. This isn't.
Jason Lange: Yeah, it's not like.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah, I'm thinking of a couple where he is on the spectrum and he has some limited, limited capacity that he knows about. He knows he has certain limitations when it comes to conn. Connection and attunement and empathy and all of that. And she made a comment once, she said, I just feel like he's another one of my kids. Like he's another person I have to take care of. And it doesn't feel like I ever get taken care of. And it's so fascinating because, not to put too fine a point on it, but several of us sort of were like, well then why don't you leave? Like, what is your role in this? So I guess I also see in this pattern the reverse polarity, the sort of passive man who attracts an aggressive Woman. I'm just going to put it out there. I've seen that many times. Passive man, aggressive woman. And the aggressive woman has her own stuff going on, right? It's like in any relationship dynamic and we've seen this definitely in our men, where as a man grows and steps into his power, that woman has a choice. At that point, she has a choice. She might not want to learn to soften, she might not want to become a different version of herself. She might not want to grow. And that's not going to work. That relationship isn't going to work anymore. And not every relationship is meant to last forever. If two people aren't growing together, a lot of times that relationship is meant to dissolve. And I think that that's what's so hard and risky about that, that question. Our sex life isn't working, but other things are. What do we do? Because what we've seen repeatedly, especially with people who are parents, is, well, shit, our sex life isn't working, but we're co parenting really well and should we stay together for the kids? And I would just reference any of you listening who have that question on your heart to listen to the episode we did specifically on should we stay together for the kids. I don't remember what number it is, but if you Google it, you'll find it. And I'm thinking of another man, another client of ours, who we'll call, I don't know, tj, who was married when he started working with us and kind of had this question on his heart of I do want a sex life, right? Like, I'm not satisfied. I do want more than this. And I'm completely torn because we co parent really well. You know, we are like in work together kind of thing. And it took a long time, but he eventually did transition out of that marriage. And man, he is thriving in terms of his dating life, his sex life. There really is a lot of life on the other side. And I think that it can feel intimidating when you're in it. When you're just. You're still in it. It just can feel impossible. Like, oh my God, where would I, you know, where would I live? How often would I see the kids? Like, what all. There's so much. It feels like there's so much risk. And the hint I'll give you from the other episode we did on should you stay together for the kids? Is you think there's less risk in staying, but there's actually a lot of risk to what you're role modeling for your children. There's a lot of risk. There's way more risk than you think in staying put versus taking the quote, unquote risk of, you know, possibly transitioning out of the marriage. And I think that's part of what's so transformative for so many of our men is just getting in a community where there are other men who have been in that position and are now on the other side to kind of actually talk to and. And feel into their experience and have a sense of, oh, my God, wow, you're. You really made it. You really made it. You know, and your kids are thriving too, right? There's so much loyalty and love that I see in our clients around their children of just, they want to make sure the kids are okay. They don't want to abandon the kids. And that friction between. God, you know, is my sex life even worth jeopardizing this thing I have? And I just. I really want to say yes, because it's not just about your sex life. It's your aliveness. It's your aliveness. It's your fire. It's your. It's. There's so much wrapped up in that part. And for most of the men we work with, I think you can speak to this a little bit. It's not just about the sex. Right. It's about the sex, but it's really about the love and the intimacy and the closeness and the connection that most of our men are craving when they're talking about their sex lives.
Jason Lange: Yeah, the vitality, energy, connection, intimacy. It shows up in a lot of ways. That sex just happens to be one of the deepest channels for that. That can do a lot of heavy lifting in a relationship. When there's energy moving through that channel, it can really make a lot of other things easy. And when it's not, can make a lot of other things really hard. And the risk you were just sharing about staying together ties exactly into the point I came in with, of how many men we talked to that were raised in a household where their parents were just. And then suddenly they're recreating that relationship because they never felt or saw that energy model between their parents in any other way. So it becomes. It's still work. It's still a type of work they have to do. And so the last thing I just kind of want to say about this reverse polarity type that ways this shows up, and there's lots of different ways we work with guys, and it shows up in each guy slightly different. One of them is, yeah, you know, oftentimes in long term marriages or families, women are doing the emotional labor, they're doing the labor with the kids, they're doing the labor on the house. And that doesn't necessarily leave them with a lot of juice for relating energetically, sexually opening things like that. So that's one area where guys can really kind of step forth of like, yeah, I don't want to be another kid. I want to help you manage the kids. Right. And if I want to have sex with you, one of the best ways to do that is to make sure you're relaxed in your body and not stressed out. What's going to support that? Can I step in and even give more in some of these other areas? So we're co holding that load. It may never be even, but at least there's a little bit more shared.
Melanie Curtin: And it doesn't have to be. Again, it doesn't have to be incredibly elaborate. It can be. I'm hiring us a house cleaner once a month to do a deep clean of the kitchen and bathrooms. How does that sound? Right. Or I'm planning on. This is. This is a thing I'm considering. What do you think? How do you feel about that? Yeah, that's leading. It doesn't. You haven't necessarily made the decision, but I've noticed that this is something that's on your heart a lot. I'm not the neatest or tidiest person I want to contribute here. It doesn't have to be you cleaning. It can be. This is what I'm looking at doing. How does that feel for you? She might be like, oh my God, that would be amazing. Like, that would be. It would be so much easier for us to keep things clean if someone else is doing a deep clean once a month. Let's time it at this time or whatever. And another example I think I was, because I teach a course for couples and I'm working with a couple and one of the things we were talking about was meal prep and planning. So meal prep and cooking. Right, Cooking. Actually cooking the meals. Because especially when you're cohabitating, it's every single day. You got to eat every single day. And she had been taking on like a lot of that load. And so one thing I suggested was another way to lead is to say, hey, I want to get us blue apron or one of these meal services twice a week. So twice a week a box shows up and it already has all the ingredients. Because planning a meal isn't just about cooking the meal. It's also, do we have what we need. Do I need to run to the store? There's a lot of mental load that I think you just eloquently spoke to that I think a lot of women are holding for a household. That has been true for a long time. It is still true in many households. It's not just about that one situation. It's not just about the cooking. It's about all the prep. Before that moment, there was this article. Talking about clearing off the kitchen table isn't just clearing off the kitchen table. It's where does this go and why? Where does this go and why? And that takes a lot of mental effort. It's not just putting things away. It's. This is a bill that needs to be paid. It has to go over here, or et cetera. You get the idea. And I think that was. That hadn't occurred to, you know, necessarily occurred to the man in the relationship. Oh, that's a way I can lead is to say, because in some relationships, you know, financial resources are tight and some they're not, and so everyone's situation is different. But I think that kind of thing of where can I lead? Where can I show up more, bigger, fuller, or even, like, asking and engaging in that is leading. You know what I mean? Like, leading doesn't have to look like. It's not dominating. And I think that's a thing that a lot of men sort of are intimidated. Oh, like me leading. What does that mean? It doesn't mean dominating. It doesn't mean aggression. It means holding energy and space and attention around something and saying, what's needed here and where can I provide? What's needed here? Where can I provide? It's direction. It's, it's. It's something that when you are in touch with your masculine power, you naturally do provide. Right. It seems to me like a lot of men that I know, they want to be doing that. And to your point about training, I think a lot of our men have made comments going through the program. They're like, wow, this is a lot easier than I was expecting. Like. Like, they start leading, especially our sort of single man or men who are dating or men who are divorced now back on the dating market. They're leading on dates, they're driving more, and they're like, this is a lot easier. This is a lot easier than I was expecting. And I'm getting way better results in less time. You know, it's just a different world. And it's like, yeah, because you're, because you're. You've got A polarity going now. And you're able to show up in this new way and that you, you know, it's kind of like what is it in chemistry? Two elements, right? We think, we think of ourselves as static and the other person is static. But really how we show up impacts how they show up and vice versa. So when you're driving and leading and holding space from the start, you're eliciting different responses from that person and you're building more trust with her. So everything else becomes easier too, right. You're leading harder conversations. You're being more brave in sharing how you're feeling or what you're wanting sexually. And she's responding well because you're bringing vulner and leading. Right. You're not waiting for her to bring things up or whatever. You're actually in the driver's seat. And that's been a really exciting and fun thing to witness in a lot of our men. Is like, wow, this is a lot easier than it used to be.
Jason Lange: Totally. It's always so fun to see when the light bulbs start going off and then the energy starts coming back from their partners or dates or whatever. Of like, yeah, you know that I do prefer that. That does feel good. So then just one last piece around this kind of reverse polarity thing. And one way we do sometimes see it show up particularly around this energy of kind of I want my partner to be my mother and my lover and emotionally soothe me. Can be, you know, a type of codependence. But sometimes it'll really strongly show up in guys who the relationship is it, everything else around them has fallen to the wayside, which is a real risk for a lot of men as they get into long term relationship, particularly as they have careers get busy and families get busy. As they stop doing their own hobbies and passions, they stop taking their own time away from the relationship. They let their male friendships fall to the side of metaphor. I always give guys is in engineering sense, if you think of a single circuit where it's like all the energy has to flow through one point. If anything happens in that one point, the whole system doesn't work. When we rely on our partner for everything. Emotional attunement, our sexuality, our best friending and that's it. It puts a lot of pressure on the relationship. One of the things we tend to help guys with is bring some of those structures around the relationship back online of getting connected to other, getting emotional needs met elsewhere, getting their passions and interests back online, which starts to kind of reconfigure thing and make more space for some polarity to kind of come back again and a little bit of separation and a little bit of distance and for their partner to not always have to hold them in and everything. You know, there's a fine line of, like, you know, the feminine part of all of us loves to, like, nurture and take care of who we're with. But there's a difference between, like, wow, like, you've really been getting at it. Like, life is just, you know, you're doing a lot, and I can feel that. And you're showing up in my relationship. And I just, man, I just want to love on you tonight. And I don't know what to do. I'm overwhelmed. Hold me. Right. Which it's not that you can't go there in a partnership, but if that's the only way she's nurturing you and then you also want her to fuck you, it's just those energies are really hard to hold at the same time. And that's a big one. We've had to support cement around of ways to get some of those needs met elsewhere, which then kind of allows our partner to not have to meet all of them.
Melanie Curtin: I would say I have left multiple partners for exactly this reason because they didn't have the support anywhere else. And I felt a little scared. Like, if I stay with you, I'm it, man. I'm it. Like, I am the only one that you are sharing the depth of your pain with, the depth of your closeness, your intimacy, even your love. To a certain extent. I'm thinking of one particular ex boyfriend where I. I have other connections outside the relationship. And I think one of the beautiful things I've witnessed in our program is the men that we work with getting connected to each other and actually feeling like this man gets me and I can be real with him. And I think our culture doesn't support men in that. So this particular ex of mine, he had friends, but he didn't drop in with those friends. They were people he went to the gym with or he did some activities with, but they weren't men that he could, for example, say, my girlfriend is moving away, and I'm crushed, and I don't know what to do. You know, he didn't have anyone that he was really talking to about deep things. And it's been, again, really gratifying to watch some men in our program, I know multiple men, they get off the first call and they're like, holy shit. I've never had a group like this. I've never been able to hear other men's stories in this. In this way. It's of kind, completely new. And I think that's something that, again, seems unrelated or tangential to this part of, like, our sex life isn't working, but other things are. It's actually deeply related because a man who feels, you know, like. I'm thinking of, you know, one of the clients we were discussing before we hit record in his sex life with his wife, it was a little bit like begging, like, you know, wanting, meeting, desiring sex, wanting closeness and kind of like begging for it. And by the end of the program, it was playful, not pitiful. So the way he was engaging with her, there was more of a tussle, energy and fun. And I remember he got on a call and he was like, yeah, we had a quickie right before this, and you just see how happy he was. And it was a pretty direct contrast. And one of the brave things that I think he confronted during the course of the program and continues to is, why do I need sex for my wife? Yes, why do I need sex for my wife? It wasn't just. Yeah. It wasn't just an empty thing. It was his exploration of that in community.
Jason Lange: Totally. And it's related to, I think oftentimes I see it's related to what we just talked about, that if the only source of your vitality in life is coming from having sex with your partner, it actually is like, almost like a vampiric need a fuck. I need this. Otherwise, I don't feel alive.
Melanie Curtin: I don't feel good or otherwise. I feel completely alone in the world.
Jason Lange: Yeah.
Melanie Curtin: That's why men's groups are so important, because when you really get connected, really get connected to other men and you feel deeply seen and met, there is a part of you that feels soothed, that. That calms down, that doesn't come with all of that need to this one place because it actually knows it's got it elsewhere.
Jason Lange: Yeah. And it tends to create, like, an energetic shift when I'm deepening my purpose and passion in my community and network and getting out into the world and getting out into nature, and I'm tapping into this greater drive and. And energy. Then it's like sex with my partner is she gets to share in that with me. Right. And amplify it in some ways rather than. Well, she has to be the generator of it. And if I don't give this to him, he's not going to get it somewhere. EL. And then it kind of Creates, can create that kind of pitiful dynamic where a woman kind of just gives a man sex, which never makes either partner ultimately satisfied from any couple I've talked to in that dynamic. But this shift to a man broadening his structure of support and nourishment and drive outside of just his relationship allows some of that polarity again, to kind of reconfigure underneath. And, and it can be tough work. Sometimes it has to do with going inside and doing grief work, doing emotional work. Sometimes it has to do with making different choices and how we're spending our day, our jobs, all of that stuff. But that's what it takes sometimes. That's what it takes for those kinds of relationships.
Melanie Curtin: And it's worth it. It's worth it. It is worth it. I'm just thinking of a couple of our clients where that playfulness came back online. And one thing I loved witnessing was they got braver. They got braver about initiating flirting. I remember one of our men sent like a, like a sexting, kind of flirty sext to his wife about something he wanted. And she, she wasn't open to it. She didn't want to do it. She was a no. But she loved that he asked. She loved that he asked. It was like, oh, yeah, you're bringing your fire to me more. And it was exciting. And, and he didn't collapse around the. No. And that's something I really want to highlight is I think that when you do feel supported by other men, when you are being brave in your sexuality and you know that you. And you're right with your sexuality, like your sexuality is sacred, your desire for sex is sacred, which I deeply believe. And you start to really get right with that. I watched those men keep their spine straight. They were like, yeah, it stung a little and I'm fucking proud of myself. Like, I went for it, I did the thing and I'm going to keep doing the thing. And there was just a sense of just uplifting positivity about it. And you could see almost their self esteem growing because they weren't attached to the outcome. It wasn't like I asked and she said no and therefore I suck. It was, I asked and she said no, but I fucking asked. I did my part, I showed up, I owned my desire, I did the thing. Good for me. And so there it was, like a virtuous cycle. Because that drive, that fire, that sense of I go after what I want, sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't. To me, that is masculine drive in any human being. Regardless of what kind of body parts you have, that's the, that's the capacity to drive through the world and to go for what you want, which is not that easy. It's not that easy. But when you feel supported, when you know you're connected to other people who are going to be proud of you, it's so much easier.
Jason Lange: Yeah. And you're resourced and there is a virtuous cycle in that one. In that repeatedly sharing your desire and then being fine whether or not anything happens, that's actually part of what starts to reorchestrate. The whole turn on pattern and system in a partnership is, oh, I don't have to just say yes to him when I don't feel like it. And wow, he's turned down by me a lot. That feels really good. And then it just can, can, can really start to spiral up in some ways over time. Over time it doesn't happen. It's just this isn't something you just do once, you know, and that's something we have to work with our guys on. It's like a commitment to a lifestyle and a way of being and constant attention on these types of things. Now it doesn't always, always happen that way. And that's where this kind of last area is, which sometimes sex life isn't working because something deeper isn't working. And one thing that, you know, we've kind of hinted at that sometimes does happen is values around sexuality may just not match up in that it actually really is important for me to have a vital sex life in my relationship. And maybe I wasn't super clear about that getting in to my relationship. And then later I am, I am, but I'm discovering my partner. It's just not, not their thing, right. Which can be just their temperament, which can be they may have some kind of trauma or sexual stuff they have to work through on their side. And no matter how perfectly you lead in that circumstance, and we do support guys who sometimes in that, sometimes they do get to a spot where it's like, wow, this just fundamentally isn't going to work. And no matter how I show up, you know, I can't actually open my partner more than she's willing to at least try to open. Right? And hitting that kind of structural point can be really painful for guys at first. Ultimately kind of liberating in that what we tend to work with guys is before you get out, go all in, like really show up, really bring, you know, your full self because then if it doesn't work Over a certain amount of time, leaving has a very different energy versus, well, I never really tried. We never really tried. I don't know, should I stay, should I go? Versus, like, I've really been trying for three months, and this piece is just not happening between us. And I want it to be part of my relationship in life. So I need to make a decision.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah. And that's, again, where having trusted people, mentors, groups, friends, therapists, you know, trusted other people to discuss that with is a boon, because it can feel really lonely and unclear not knowing. You know, is this an impasse? Are we at an impasse? I think we might be at an impasse to have other people reflect back. You know, this is the 10th therapy session where you've come in morose and feeling stuck and. Or the sort of examples that I gave of the men in marriages where it was working. The woman wasn't a no every single time. Right. If you're getting a no all the time, if she's closed all the time, it might not be you. And I would also encourage you to go back and listen to the borderline personality episode if you haven't listened to that yet, because a number of our guys come in with that kind of partner. And again, not all of the men that we work with end up staying in the relationship, but a lot of the men that we work with have ended relationships well, and they have been better off for it, and the people around them have been better off for it as well. So I do think that there's a certain. It's a little bit like in nature, things die and are reborn. Right. Trees don't live forever. Sometimes trees die, and then they fall over and they become places where mushrooms grow. Right. Things aren't always meant to. Just because a relationship existed doesn't mean that it's nourishing for it to continue to exist. That's the evaluation part. That's the whole point of, you know, like you said, Jason, of going all in, working on yourself, showing up as best you can, and then evaluating from there. Because sometimes the evaluation is, yeah, this. This isn't going to work. And we got to make some choices based on that. And that's brave and necessary and healthy. I guess that's what I really want to say. That's healthy. Healthy is figuring out what's going to actually work for everyone involved and doing that. It's not just tolerating misery.
Jason Lange: Yes. And to kind of start to bring things to a close here. If you're a guy and your sex life isn't working. You just have a map there of three potential areas that might be the cause of it. But it's all going to start with being the one to lead the conversation about what's really going on and what my needs are, where I'm not feeling that. What's going on for you? What do you want? What do I want? And then, you know, there's different strategies and training that we certainly help men with that can help all three of those areas to different extent. But whatever it is, you. You can do a lot of work in the relationship by being the one to lead it and admit, like, hey, the way we're living isn't okay with me. I'm no longer okay with this. I do not want to live in a sexless marriage. And then to really have some frank conversations around what might be possible from there. And then, yeah, oftentimes putting in the work to get some training to learn some tools and skills for communicating and connection and bringing structure to all that, to see then what's possible and whether or not it'll be. Be sustainable long term.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah, I mean, I think that kind of wraps it up. So if you are interested in our work, which we mentioned several times on this episode, you can go to Evolutionary Men Slash Training and take our free training that's available whenever streaming. And you can always get me directly@dearmen podcastmail.com we'd love to hear your thoughts on this or anything else.
