I loved being back on Melanie's show to talk about something a lot of men struggle with but don't always want to look at. Weed and alcohol, right? The truth is, these aren't just substances we use for fun. For a lot of men, they're numbing agents. They help us not feel everything that's happening in our bodies and lives.
What really struck me in this conversation was how these substances affect our relationships. When we're high or drunk, we're diminished. Our consciousness is literally reduced. Someone else has to hold more space, be more aware, take care of us. And if that's our partner, we're basically asking them to be our caretaker instead of our lover. That kills the polarity that keeps relationships alive.
But here's what I want men to hear, underneath a woman saying "I'm worried about your drinking" or "the weed is too much" is actually "I want more of you." She's not trying to control you. She's asking for all of you to show up. That's an invitation, not a criticism.
The real shift happens when we take responsibility. Not for what happened to us as kids or what trauma we're carrying, but for how we're showing up now. Are we using these things unconsciously out of habit? Are we avoiding feeling what needs to be felt? Because feeling is always braver than not feeling. That's the new warrior, the internal work of turning toward what's there instead of numbing it out.
Read Full Transcript Full episode text for reading and search
Melanie Curtin: There are a lot of people like this. There are a lot of people who are functioning alcoholics and functioning weed addicts that date and relate. And I remember, you know, feeling really overwhelmed at the concept of even bringing it up because I didn't know how to say, Hey, everybody, welcome back to another episode. I am pleased to have back with me Jason Lange, my famous co coach. So glad to have you.
Jason Lange: Yeah. Excited to be back. Been a little while.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah. So today we're talking about men, weed, alcohol, and love. Again, I just want to say that we're mostly talking about male, female dynamics on this podcast. And all of these dynamics can apply no matter what physical body you reside in or how you identify. So I just want to be clear about that. Sometimes I'll use the language of men and women, but I just want everyone to know you are all welcome however you identify, including trans folks and everyone in between. This is just a wording that I'm using. The dynamic I really want to talk about. And again, I'm going to frame this in terms of men and women, but this is really applicable to anyone is the dynamic of being in relationship with someone who is contending with addiction of some kind. Right. Addiction to weed and alcohol is what we're going to focus on in this episode, and I think that's very, very common. But this can also be related to something like gambling addiction or video game addiction or possibly pornography. Yeah, pornography. And I want to really be clear that my experience of this topic is that we get tripped up, and I want to say obsessed, almost obsessed with the thing that is the addiction, meaning I have a problem with your alcohol addiction, or I have a problem with your addiction to marijuana, or I don't like that you smoke so much. And I want to break this down because I have many times had the experience, and I'm going to go into a little bit of detail of being in relationship with a man who was using a substance to regulate his nervous system. Right. And we call that addiction in our culture. And there's a lot of attention and there's a lot of, again, obsession with that thing, right? With the alcohol or with the weed or with the porn or with the fill in the blank. And I think that really does us all a disservice because it becomes. What is it? It's like there's a reason that the person is using this substance, and that is usually trauma, untreated trauma, unresolved trauma. So I'm going to give an example of this, Jason, and I'd love your thoughts on it. So, for example, I was seeing a guy for not a very long time, a couple months, and he really liked me. And I. I liked him too. I didn't like him as much as he liked me, but I did like him. And I. I really didn't like how much he drank. And the way that I expressed it to some friends, because we had some mutual friends, was, I'm going to call him Tim for this episode. I said, I think that Tim has a lot of unresolved trauma from childhood, and I don't like the way that he handles it, which is to drink. So I was really clear on. I know what the underlying reason is. The reason that Tim drinks is not just that he likes beer. It's not. It's not a character flaw of Tim that he drinks all the time. He is treating his anxiety. That's essentially what it was. He was very anxious. He had a lot of stuck, trapped energy in his body, really another word for trauma. And he would soothe himself. He would numb himself with alcohol. Now, my issue was, I want a man who's doing the work. And when you're using alcohol or you're using weed to regulate and you're not doing anything else to address the underlying trauma, you're not doing the work. So part of why I wanted to have this episode and why, and I'd love. What I'd love to hear your feedback on is I never told Tim that. I never even touched it. I was like, this feels really hard and scary to say I want to be with a man who's dealing with his trauma. That feels really weird and scary. And it also feels like it's not really my place.
Jason Lange: Right.
Melanie Curtin: You're Tim, doing your Tim thing, living your Tim life. I don't want to come in and say you have to change, but there is a balance there, which is that Tim never knew why I left. I didn't really tell him the truth. I honestly don't remember what I said. I think I said, this just isn't a fit for me, which is kind of true. But the deeper truth is I don't feel secure knowing that you're not dealing with this big part of your life. And. And in a way, he was dealing with it. He was dealing with it by using alcohol. But he wasn't looking at addressing the underlying trauma. He wasn't looking at addressing the root cause of the reason he drank. He was just using it as. As medicine, kind of. So I guess my question to you is, if you were a man, would you want to know, and would it feel like I'm trying to control you? Because I think that was part of my concern is if I bring this to you, I don't want you to feel like, well, I have to stop drinking so that Mel will still date me. That's my worst nightmare, is you take some major action in your life solely because you want to continue seeing me romantically. And that's not enough. It's like, no, no. Addressing underlying trauma is like, it's an investment. Like, it takes a lot. So would you want to know? And if so, how would you want to hear that?
Melanie Curtin: Yeah. So I'm thinking back again to Tim, for example, and I remember. Yeah, I remember I never felt unsafe with Tim. I never felt unsafe. I never felt like he was a crazy, messy drunk. I never felt like he was falling over. I never felt, like, concern about getting into a car with him, which is actually interesting because I do remember him driving us around. I think he was really good at managing his alcoholism. And I think that's really what I wanted to talk about in this episode, because there are a lot of people like this. There were a lot of people who are functioning alcoholics and functioning weed addicts that date and relate. And I remember feeling really overwhelmed at the concept of even bringing it up because I didn't know how to say a little bit of what you're speaking to. Of. I didn't know how to say, I feel uncomfortable with this. And I actually think it would have been easier if I had felt unsafe. I think it would have been easier to say, I don't feel safe or I don't feel secure, because that feels so tangible and so concrete. And it was more. I think my truth was more like, I don't feel relaxed. I don't feel relaxed. I don't feel relaxed because you're holding so much tension in your body all the time that only gets calmed down when you drink. And that fact makes me uncomfortable. So I'm tense with. When you're tense because kind of like mirror neurons, my body adjusts. That's not the right word, but, you know, you've. You've used the metaphor of a pitchfork. Pitchfork. Not a pitchfork, a tuning fork.
Jason Lange: Tuning fork. You resonate.
Melanie Curtin: Which I don't know if anyone knows what that is, but I'm going to explain it real quick. If you play a note on a piano, a tuning fork will carry that note, right? A tuning fork will become the note that is played in the space. And I, I feel like that as a woman, I feel very sensitive and attuned to what is happening in the space, especially with someone I'm relating with. So when you are tense and holding tension and anxious, I feel tense and anxious and it's not comfortable. I don't feel good in my body. So I think that if I was going to actually share the truth, it would be, I feel tension when I'm with you. I feel anxious when I'm with you. And what I notice is that you use alcohol to bring that down. And I feel really uncomfortable with that. I feel really uncomfortable with that. And I don't know what else to say. Like, I. Because I think that, I think there's this thing that I do that I think a lot of people do. I'm going to use the word women, but I think a lot of people do it of. Well, if I say this, you know, Tim would never have wanted me to feel stressed out with him. He would have been very dismayed to learn this. Right? And so I feel like I protected him, air quotes, protected him from how I actually felt with him a lot of the time because I didn't want to offend him. I didn't want to deal with lash back or backlash if he, if he attacked me, if I actually shared my truth. And so I just didn't say anything at all. And I think that that is fairly common in relationship, both ways, right? That a lot of us are, quote, protecting the other person and not sharing our truth because the truth is fucking uncomfortable sometimes, particularly when we're talking about breakups or closing connections. Right. I'm ending this connection because, you know, fill in the blank. I want to share another type of this scenario, which is I was relating with a man and we, we were more serious than Tim and I and we got to a sort of point in the relationship when I knew that he was using weed to regulate himself and he was high most of the time, I would say 80% of the time that we spending time together. I don't think that he knew that I knew. I think that he thought that he was undercover about it. And I've experienced this with a lot of people. Again, People who use weed, but I'm going to stick with men. A lot of men who use weed, in my experience, I think they think that I can't tell. I think they think that they roll up and they think they're cool and I can tell. But I don't say anything. I don't say anything. I don't really act different. I don't treat them differently. But I feel a little bit of disgust. I'm going to be honest, I feel a little bit of disgust. And part of the reason, I think, is because their reaction times are a little bit slower. Their thought patterns are a little bit disordered sometimes, not always. But there are little things that feel off, that feel like, I'm sharper than you right now.
Jason Lange: Totally. You're having to hold the masculine.
Melanie Curtin: I'm more conscious. Yes.
Jason Lange: When we talk about. And so the re. This ties into part of why I think these substances. You know, it's not that there's not women that use these substances too, but, you know, I imagine the data is that a lot of alcoholics are men and a lot of people addicted to weed are men. You know, the allure of those, why we use those is they are a diminishment of consciousness.
Melanie Curtin: Right.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah. And I am remembering a recent event where a guy friend of mine showed up high and I was, I was not going to ask him for help at the end. I needed help fixing whatever. I needed help cleaning up. And I think he would have been very sad to hear that truth that I didn't really trust him in that moment. I thought, it's so. It's. It could be dangerous. He's going to be slower than other people. You know, I just didn't do it. And so again, I think that he thought that no one could tell. And I think that he thought, oh, if they need my help, they'll ask. Like, I think it's so invisible. I guess that's part of why I wanted to do this episode was to raise visibility around. If you are someone who's using alcohol or using weed or using something else to regulate. I do think the people around you are affected and I do think that it affects your dating relationships. And I think that there are many people who've left dating relationships without telling the truth around this subject because it's so sensitive and it's so personal. It feels so personal, right? For me to have said to the man that was using weed to say I'm uncomfortable with how much you use weed to numb. I think in my experience of that person, it's like, well, what the fuck do you want me to do? My life is fucking hard. I, you know, I've had these grief, you know, he had some things going on. Like, I've had some shit go down. This is what I fucking do. Like, what do you want from me? Like, that's how I imagine he would react. I don't know that because I didn't, I didn't try it. But I think that's a bit of the reaction and the response that I'm afraid of. And I can see that person's point. They're like, I found this thing that helps me do the thing I need to do, which is live my life, go to my job, take care of my kids, you know, manage my ex wife, like, be in my reality. And I could see how it would Feel like you want me to take away the one thing that's helping me live. That feels impossible. And I think that that's the part that, again, is. It's actually not. It's. It's treating a thing right. It's like, no, I don't just want you to stop doing the weed. What I want you to do is be in a men's group, invest in a mentor. I want you to be going to Al Anon or, sorry, AA and Al Anon because you had addiction in your family, at home. I want you to be doing the work. That's what I want. I want you to be doing the consciousness work to address your trauma. And I think for like, a lot of men, that's just like, what the hell are you talking about? That part feels so big that I again shy away from the conversation altogether because it feels like such a. Such a big thing to talk about. It's like, hey, I want you to address your childhood trauma so that I can feel more comfortable in our relationship. It feels ridiculous to me, but it's really the truth. Ultimately, it's like, I don't quote, unquote, just want you to stop drinking. It's not really about the drinking. That's what I'm trying to get across is it's not that I just want. Wanted Tim to stop drinking. Like, I don't actually want Tim to stop drinking. I want Tim to address his stuff, his underlying stuff, which he's using alcohol to treat. That's what I want. But it can be so easy to just hear, oh, she wants me to stop drinking. Oh, she wants me to stop weed. Like, that's not really it. And I think we get so focused on that that it detracts from the real conversation, which is doing the work.
Jason Lange: Yeah, absolutely. And it's. I mean, with all of these things, it's. It's not about stopping it forever. It's about using it with intention and consciousness. Right. There's a way to, yeah, totally get high or totally get drunk. It's a very intentional thing where you even set the container to have that experience so that people aren't taking care of you. Right. You plan that stuff out. That's possible. That's not what we're talking about here. That I think a lot of guys just. It's just like an unconscious thing. They go to a habit. And you know what I hear underneath that and what, you know, for any men who have maybe thought about this or had this reflection, right underneath what you're sharing, you're right. It's not about, I need you to stop doing this. It's, I want more of you. I want more of you. That's what you're really asking for, is I want more of you. And when you're numbing yourself and your feelings with weed and booze, I'm not getting all of you. And I want, like, I want all you. And you know what I would say is if a man closes to that, he's 100% not your man. Right? Not your man.
Melanie Curtin: Yes.
Jason Lange: Because that's actually an invitation for more. Like, I want. I want you. I want all of you. And when these things are on the table, less of you is online.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah. Yeah. And it's. It's. I want. I want more of you. And I want you to get the help you need to do that. Because I think, again, it's really easy. I'm thinking back to Tim of him saying, okay, yeah, I'll stop drinking, but not do the thing. And it's like, well, now all of that anxious energy is in your body, and I'm tense around you again. So you're probably going to go find something else. That's probably what's going to happen. You're probably going to go find something else that takes it down a notch. And what I'm really asking for is, I want all of you, and I want you. I want you to heal your stuff. There's a cult. There's a craving. There's a craving for you at your masculine essence, you, at your core, you. You healthy. You healthy and whole. Like, that's what I'm wanting. And that's not who you're being in the world right now. And I don't think it's an accident that. I believe that life calls us to evolve as human beings. I believe life calls us to evolve. And if we don't hear the call, then it knocks us over, and it's like an inevitability. Like, life wants you to grow. It wants you to grow. So it will knock politely on the door, and then it'll smash it down, and you will get into a car accident or you will experience something big to wake you up. And I think the more conscious we become, the more aware we are, the more we hear the knock at the door and we regulate and we kind of correct.
Jason Lange: Right?
Melanie Curtin: But I don't think it's an accident that a feminine being like me, which is an embodiment of life the same way masculine beings are, is calling for a man to grow. And he can either Answer that call or not. So I want to tell two other quick stories that are relevant here. One is, I was with a military vet for a while, and he also had a very strong relationship with alcohol and sleep meds, because, again, undiagnosed, I would say anxiety, depression, and post traumatic stress. I think he had post traumatic stress that was untreated. And so he was doing all the things he could that he knew how to do to manage that, which was mostly alcohol and sleep meds. And sleep meds, by the way, will make you really weird if you don't go to sleep once you take them, namely Ambien. So he would get pretty strange. And. And again, I think that conversation of, I want more of you, I want all of you, is fundamentally, I need you to get other help besides our relationship to do that. I guess that's really what I want to say, is that I don't want to hold all of you. I want all of you. And I am not your therapist. I am not your men's coach. I am not an Al Anon group. I am a woman. I want to be in relationship with you, but I want you to go be a warrior and do the work. Invest. Yes. I have invested upwards of $50,000 in myself and my healing and my growth over my life. And I feel like all this emotion coming up as I'm talking about it, I'm like, I want that from you. I want you to be willing to invest in your health and your consciousness. Yes, I want that from you. I want that from you. And if that's not there, I will leave you. And I have left you, right? I have left the divine masculine in at least the form of three men, at least because of this. And I've never told them that.
Jason Lange: And.
Melanie Curtin: And I wonder too, because, you know, you've been in relationship, you know, has that ever come up for you where you've thought, I'm leaving this woman, for example, let's say, mostly because of her depression. She's depressed a lot of the time. It interrupts our connection. It makes it hard to be intimate with her. And I'm not just talking about sex. I'm talking about all the things around intimacy, right? Like cuddling and love and playfulness and, you know, all of that stuff. And I feel like if I touch that subject, like, shit is going to go down. It's going to be an eruption. She's going to feel judged. It's going to be a whole fucking thing. So instead of saying, if we were to stay together, I would need you to get help for your depression in a real way address the underlying trauma instead of that. Did you dance around it too? Have you ever had that experience of I don't really want to touch the real reason that this isn't working because it feels too big and too scary and too personal?
Jason Lange: Yeah. It's the taking responsibility. And, you know, the thing I work with, I tell a lot of guys that feeling is always braver than not. Like that's the essence of this type of warriorship. It's the opening to what's there. Opening to what's there. Opening to what's there. And that is the new warrior. You know, the. We get all these tales and stories about warriorhood, which are always, you know, based on war and the external and going out and conquering. And that's the big shift that's happened in our generation. Now that warriorship is migrating to an internal experience. It's turning inside, taking responsibility to heal what needs to be healed in ourselves, in our lineage. And to feel like that's just it, that's the honest truth. And we're not given a lot of tools as men, you know, so, you know, guys listening to this who, you know, maybe do use weed or do use alcohol, you know, it's not. It's not something I want you to feel shame about, right. We turn to the medicine the culture gives us. These are the medicines mostly available in our culture right now. And they suck for doing this. They're okay at other things, right. But it's like a blunt instrument that's not really suited to this. That actually doesn't address the underlying problem. Like you said in the trouble with these, which I talk. Talk about a lot, is they. They keep us in place, right? It's like. It's like living life in neutral gear. We can never quite. Because we're not going into things, we're just kind of in the same spot over and over and over again. And, you know, for women out there that are listening, you know, I've done hundreds of calls with men at this point, and for a lot of them, what wakes them up and gets their asses off the couch is a woman, you know, And I think that's the great gift that the feminine has to us men who. It's very easy for us to go through life just not in our bodies. It's just that, you know, that's. That. That's the masculine experience for a lot of men. And the feminine is what invites us into, like, hey, it's worth being here. It's worth being here. Like, come feel with me and some guys, you know, I wish I could get a lot of the guys on the boat, but truthfully, the thing that brings them to us is a lot of time feedback from a woman they're in relationship with, or feedback from a woman they wanted to be in relationship with but who was like, yeah, you know, it's not going to work for me.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah, you got some stuff to work out. And I love you and I wish you well, and I hope you get there, because you're great. Like, that's what I wish I could have said.
Jason Lange: I'm rooting for you.
Melanie Curtin: I'm rooting for you. I want you to get the help. I just. I really need you to do that to be with me. I can't. I can't do this. And I remember the guy that was a veteran. He never said this out loud, but I think he wanted to marry me, and I think he wanted to have kids with me. And there was one point when I didn't say it out loud, but I was like, I would never, ever have kids with you the way you are now. You're an alcoholic. I would never. Like, I'm in relationship with you, and we have pretty good relationship for what it is. But the trust involved in raising a person, like, no.
Jason Lange: No.
Melanie Curtin: I would know that's a hard boundary for me. And I think, again, like, I think he would have been sad to hear that. I think he would have been sad and surprised to hear that. And for me, it was terribly obvious. Like, this is not. You're out of control. There's a way that you're out of control that doesn't feel like you would be a healthy dad.
Jason Lange: Yeah.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah.
Jason Lange: And I feel sadness.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah. I feel the same way about weed addiction. Like, there's. This Needs to be addressed. This underlying stuff that's here is. Needs to be addressed.
Jason Lange: Yeah. That. And the last thing I'll just say is I think that sadness that he. Right. He still would have had a choice to feel that sadness or not. But that sadness is sometimes the gateway that men need to. Oh, fuck. Fuck. Right? And so, yeah, guys, you know, it's hard to look at this stuff, but it's not impossible. When you have the right community and the right path, it really can change and it really can get better. And it doesn't have to mean you never do these things again. It doesn't have to mean that.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah.
Jason Lange: It can still be a part of your life. It's the why you're using it and how you're using it that'll often shift.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah. And it's resolving some of that underlying trauma, and that changes everything. When you actually get to the root and you complete the circle that wasn't completed, your relationship to the substance changes. It's not A equals B. But there's a compulsion. There's an obsession, there's a need. There's an addition, the addiction to it as. This is how I feel. Okay. In the world. This is how I feel. Okay. This is how I feel. Okay. This is how I feel. Okay. When the trauma is addressed and when you have a supportive community and you feel loved and you feel self love, those are the deep things. And when those are in place, yeah, you might drink, but it's not. I have to have this this weekend or I will die. It feels like I don't have this. I will die. Yeah. So, okay, we're going to wrap. If you are interested in Jason and I for mentorship, you can watch our free training, which is at Evolutionary Men Training. And I encourage you. I encourage you to get mentorship. Whether or not it's with us, it doesn't matter. But if this resonated or if you feel like there's something you need to address, get some help. There's lots out there to do and it's possible. And you can do this. We can do it all together.
Jason Lange: Yeah. Don't try to do this thing alone.
