I sat down with Melanie Curtin on her podcast Dear Men and we dove deep into something that's probably sabotaging more relationships than most guys realize. We talked about covert contracts, those invisible agreements we make in our heads without ever speaking them out loud. What struck me during our conversation was how universal this pattern is, and how quickly guys recognize themselves in these examples once you name what's actually happening.
A covert contract is basically when you have an agreement you made up in your head about how things should work, but you never actually talked about it with your partner. You're doing X expecting them to do Y in return, but they have no idea that's the deal. Classic example: being the super nice guy who does everything for a woman, hoping she'll eventually realize he's relationship material. Or in my own marriage, expecting my wife to always cook dinner because I'm working more, without ever actually having that conversation. Then resentment builds up on both sides because no one knows the rules of the game.
We talked about how these contracts are often a way to avoid vulnerability. If you don't actually ask for what you want, you can't get rejected in the same direct way. But the problem is it keeps you stuck in this gray zone where your needs aren't getting met and your partner doesn't even know what they're supposed to be doing differently.
One thing I really want guys to hear: asking for what you need is actually how you let your partner love you. When I'm clear with Violet about what I need, like needing masculine time outside the house after months of sheltering in place with a newborn, she can actually meet that need. It becomes this powerful thing instead of me just expecting she should know and then getting resentful when she doesn't.
If you want to start untangling your own covert contracts, try keeping a resentment journal. Where do you feel resentful? That's usually pointing right at a covert contract you're running. Then the work is bringing it above board and actually asking for what you need.
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Melanie Curtin: Right now, where's your heart? If this is hurting your heart repeatedly or your self esteem, you know, protect yourself. I think that's really what came down to, for me was I was protecting myself from. From harm.
Jason Lange: I think that's so important. And I really want, you know, guys and ladies listening to, let that one sink in, that you don't have to, like, it's actually okay. You're not a bad person. It doesn't mean you were just into somebody for the sex. Like, there's all kinds of stories we attach to, but it just means it's not right for you and you need to take care of yourself right now.
Melanie Curtin: All right. Welcome back to another episode of Dear Men. Thank you for joining me again, Jason, one of my favorite guests today. We're talking about resentment and disappointment. I'm trying to make it sound exciting because it's not exciting in real life, but this is one of the core parts of a relationship. It can be the death of a relationship. And I actually think that growing out of resentment and growing into wholeness is one of the most mature things we can do as adult humans. I actually feel like it's a sign of. It's almost like the ultimate spiritual lesson. Right. Growing beyond resentment. Because if you're actually doing it right, you're learning what your own needs are and getting them met. So. Yeah. So today we're going to be talking about a specific aspect of this pattern, and it's called covert contracts. And I'm wondering, Jason, if you could maybe give us your definition of COVID contracts and maybe your experience with them, if you've had any or what you've seen in the guys you've spoken with.
Jason Lange: Yeah. So this is a big one that in terms of, you know, a lot of what we've talked about before on the podcast and the type of work we do with the guys we coach, that really is underneath of what we would call the essence of a lot of nice guy syndrome, or the problem of being a nice guy, so to speak. And oftentimes getting stuck in the friend zone. And this term, covert contracts, is traced right down to the roots of Nice Guy syndrome and was created by Dr. Robert Glover, who is a fantastic author and a friend and mentor of mine. That this is one of those matrix moment terms that every time I come across a guy or express this to a guy, it clicks within a couple minutes and they get it and they're like, oh, crap, Right? I've done this a lot.
Melanie Curtin: I've been doing this my whole adult life. Didn't even know it.
Jason Lange: Yeah. So the essence of a covert contract is really this idea that I have an agreement I've made up in my head, like a context, rules for an interaction that I'm assuming the other party knows, but we don't actually talk about it is the idea there. The covertness is. It's under the surface, it's unexpressed, it's not shared. But the contract piece is. I have some kind of behavior I'm doing, but it's attached to an expectation that it will be met in some kind of reciprocity. Right. That's just the simple formula that Dr. Glover talks about in his book is if I do X, you'll do Y for me. Right. Which is great. That's how a lot of life works. Except the problem with this version is it's not above surface. No one knows it's happening. Or maybe you kind of do in an unconscious way, but you've never actually gotten consent or agreement from your partner to interact in this contract.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah, I was looking up a few examples in preparation for this episode. I thought this one was good. And most of these are within the context of romantic relationship. This is a sex and dating podcast. So one example. You do the dishes, let's say, when you don't normally, so your partner won't complain about you watching the game. You take your partner out for Valentine's Day, so you expect sex. You keep the house clean in order to get recognition. And I loved this particular. This is a bit longer, but I think it's really, really clear. So this is an example from uncoveringintimacy.com for example, you plan a vacation. You go through the trouble and expense of booking a three bedroom suite so the kids can have their own bedrooms. You get there and then a series of things make sex undesirable for your spouse. The 18 hour drive or a sunburn, or the baby took a long time to get to sleep, or just the stress of managing the kids swimming in the ocean. You initiate sex and get a do we have to? In your mind, you had a deal. Vacation equals sex. Perhaps over the course of the vacation, you managed to have sex once, maybe twice over the course of the week. But it's vacation in your mind that all this expense and time should reap. Daily sex. That is the COVID contract. You expected vacation in exchange for daily sex. But because you didn't express that expectation in your mind, there is a contract that is broken. In your spouse's mind, you're grumpy for no reason, which is probably going to get you less sex and not more. And I loved this example for several reasons, one of which is you're annoyed, right, that this person hasn't upheld their end of the bargain. But there was no actual bargain struck. And there's, I think, a lot of hope attached to covert contracts. I know when I've done it, I've sort of been like, there's a little bit of uncertainty. I'm like, oh, I'm not really sure, but I'm pretty sure I'm hope there's some hope and there's some expectation. And then after the fact, when it doesn't happen, now I'm pissed. Like, after the fact, now I'm resentful and angry. I'm pissed. I'm like, you didn't do what you were supposed to do, but there was no communication that that's what was supposed to happen.
Jason Lange: Yeah, right. One of the clearest indicators that a covert contract is running oftentimes is some kind of resentment builds up. Well, I always do this thing for you, and maybe that partner never asked for that to be done for them. Right. And so, like, there's kind of a resentment building up. Then the other partner's like, well, that's not fair because I never asked you to do that. Right. Again, there was no agreement, mutual agreement entered into. And that resentment and that frustration is, you know, definitely one that guys we've worked with have experienced, I think, along with resentment and frustration, sometimes there can be some sadness and grief of just not being seen right. In some of these offerings or things they're doing for a partner. And that can make them sad and angry and upset. But the essence of this really just comes down to, you know, it's a strategy, not necessarily a very effective one, as we're going to be really covering here today for trying to get our needs met, but without having to ask, which ties into something. You and I just go so deep with men around this idea of leading with vulnerability that. Right. A covert contract oftentimes is a way to circumvent vulnerability. Because if I'm not asking for it up front, then I can't really get rejected in the same way. So there's these kind of sly ways we make our desires known, or we do extra things for our partner in hopes that this will magically register in their brain, go through an equation, and they'll be like, oh, this means he actually wants a blowjob tonight. Right. Like, even though that it's obvious to us, it is not necessarily obvious to our partners. But again, you know, one of the things I also associated with it, like I said, is it's much less vulnerable.
Melanie Curtin: There's.
Jason Lange: Right. You don't have to go through that open hearted moment of like, here's what I want. And then my partner could be like, no, I'm not down with that. And then, you know, that has a different kind of repercussion to it. But the whole covert contract system I really think is a way a lot of guys use to just try to get around that. Or for some of the guys we work with, kind of in the more typical nice guy. The COVID contract in some sense is the essence of one of the fundamental problems of nice guy. If I'm just super nice to you, you will at some point realize that and to honor me back, will have sex with me. I mean, like that's, you know, that's a pretty extreme generalization of that. But if I do all this stuff to you and I'm emotionally supportive to you, and I'm the one that always answers the phone when you've had a hard time and I pick you up from the airport and I check your mail or take your dog for a walk, I mean, right. The list of ways this sometimes shows up in that particular scenario is long. But the, you know, the belief underneath is, oh, and then you'll find me romantically attractive.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah.
Jason Lange: That's one where we see tons of resentment build up. Right. Like with guys we've worked with of like, wow, I did all this stuff and then she didn't even call me back or didn't even text me back.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah.
Jason Lange: And like source a huge frustration there. So that's one really strong area. You know, we tend to see this, which again, I would kind of correlate to all kinds of different stuff about us relating to our own vulnerability of actually owning what we want with a partner and what we're desiring. The moment we own, it becomes a little more real and it becomes a little more vulnerable.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah. And I think there's also an element of not necessarily even knowing what it is that we want. So I have an example and I'm hoping we can both sort of share a personal example of a covert contract. I remember I was dating a guy and we were doing long distance for a while and I sent him a pretty elaborate care package. I actually have no recollection now what it, what was in it. I just remember putting a lot of effort and I think I decorated the box or something. It was like really, really cute and sent it off. Felt really proud. I was like, this is a really good gift. Great. And he received it and really liked it and was like, thanks for the gift or something. Like, thanks for that. And. And there was a part of me that was like, that's it. Like, I was expecting, like, more. I don't know, like, fireworks or something. Like, I was expecting more gratitude or, oh, my God, you're such an amazing girlfriend. Or like, basically, I think I was expecting adoration or appreciation of some kind. So it's not necessarily just sex, right? A covert contract can also be like, I wanted appreciation. I wanted to be seen as special. I wanted you to tell me I'm special. I wanted you to tell me I'm amazing. I want it, you know, whatever it was. But I could not have told you when I sent that care package that this was a covert contract. I was not aware that I had this expectation of something in return. I thought. I really thought, which I think a lot of us do. Oh, I'm just really being generous. I just really love giving, you know? And there are instances, of course, where that is true, but the truth is, many times we do have invisible strings attached that we are not even conscious of. And that's part of why I wanted to do this episode, because I want to raise our awareness and raise our consciousness around covert contracts because I think they lead to so much pain and so much suffering. And it's interesting, in that case, I did actually bring it up with my boyfriend. I don't remember exactly how, but I remember thinking, I should probably talk to him about this, because I'm still thinking about it, like, three weeks later. And I brought it up, and I was like, you know, I sent that package, and I. I don't know, I was expecting a little bit more of a response or something like that. And I remember him being a little confused and a little defensive. And I actually think that was pretty warranted. Like, I think that. I think that it had him feel a little unsafe because it was clear that it wasn't really a gift. It was like a gift with strings, and they were invisible. And I think he could sense there was something else that I wanted or needed or expected because of it. And he wasn't sure what it was, but he was like, I guess you didn't get it. And so it felt weird to him. And looking back, and I felt a little ashamed to be. To be like, to my credit at the time, I remember feeling a little shame, like, I shouldn't feel this way. I shouldn't feel resentful. That I sent you this amazing thing and then didn't get, you're so amazing in return. I know I shouldn't feel that way, but I do feel that way. So I think there's a way that it's even, you know, before we're sort of aware that we have needs and our needs are valid and we're more straightforward in getting them met. There are all of these side angles that we try to use to get them method instead of being direct and asking for what we want. But even before that, being aware of what it is that we want, we need. Because I think that's sort of step one, which the book no More Mr. Nice Guy goes into really well and sort of lays out a straight path before. It talks about COVID contracts, talks about needs, and it talks about often how nice guys were raised. And many men with nice guy patterning were actually emotionally abandoned or neglected. A lot of neglect. Just like the parent wasn't there, the parent wasn't attuned. The parent didn't actually meet the needs of the child. And so the child sort of learned that their needs weren't important and kind of learned coping strategies around getting their needs met without sort of admitting that they had them because it wasn't really safe to have needs. So I'm sort of, you know, this is a shortcut. I strongly recommend you read the book. If you actually do think that you have some nice guy patterning, I think it's extremely worthwhile. But the point is, it's not just covert. Contracts didn't just pop up out of nowhere. They were a strategy. And as a contrast to that, I just want to sort of go back to those examples. What could be said so in the one about the game, right, of like, you do the dishes, which maybe you don't, you don't really do, so that your partner won't complain about you watching the game. Here's an alternate scenario. You address her directly and you say, hey, I'd like to watch the game this evening. I know you like to relax after cleaning up. How about I do the dishes and you can relax in a bubble bath or tinkering in the. In the garage while I cheer for my team. I'll check on you during the commercial breaks to see if you need anything. So that's a direct ask, which is, here's my proposal. I do the dishes and then I watch the game. And basically you don't bother me, right? I think the subtext, I want to be watching the game and I want to be left alone. And another sort of shorter version was, I'd really love to watch the game tonight. Is there anything I can do or help with that will make your night better? Which I think is, you know, sort of along the lines, but in both cases, you'll notice that it leads with, hey, I'd like to watch the game tonight, which is the want. It leads with the desire of this is what I want. You know, and then how do we work together so that we can make that work for both of us? Which is the direct, you know, direct path. And that was almost never modeled in people's families of origin that I saw. I mean, most people that I know didn't have functional role models when it came to their parents and working as a team and all that stuff. But to your point, you know, it's. It's sort of more straightforward in terms of leading with what you want. And I think there's a lot more vulnerability around sex. So I'm going to go back to that example, too, of the vacation, the vacation sex one, which is this was actually this uncovering intimacy.com is a man. And he said, this is actually happening. You know, my wife and I are away this weekend with the kids. And of course, in my mind, vacation equals sex. But in my wife's mind, vacation equals sleep. So there's. You can see the potential problem. I could have a covert contract thinking I agreed to this vacation, you owe me sex. And she could have a covert contract thinking, I agreed to this vacation, you owe me sleep. So how do we avoid conflict? It's pretty simple. Communicating. So in this case, his wife was like, I'm going to need a nap this afternoon. And he was like, I expected that I'm going to need some sex this evening. And she said, I figured that. And then he says, I love this. Now, it happens to be that we both expected the other's expectation. This isn't our first vacation. That was funny, but explicitly stating it means there's no room for hurt feelings. Unless the expectation is broken. But then we'll both know exactly why there's conflict. Now, this is the important thing, because I think when it's a covert contract, right? And he has this idea, he has this expectation, she owes me sex because we're on vacation, it gets to be the evening, and she genuinely has a headache. I know that's an excuse that's brought up, but let's say it's actually true. You know, she's dehydrated, she's been dealing with the kids, all this stuff. And she says no that evening. Well, that's coming with a lot more weight now. It's not just, I don't want sex this evening. It's like, he believes it's owed to him and he's pissed. So he now is now he gives her the silent treatment. So she says no to sex, and he's like, fine. And he goes and he brushes his teeth, and he's cold. And he's cold the next morning. It's. I mean, this is gonna devolve right now. This trip is gonna suck. Because both part now she's like, what the fuck? Like, what happened? Why is this so. Or she's just gonna think, you know, this is only about sex when it's like, it's about sex, but it's really about more than that. It's not just about that. It's about this covert contract and not realizing it's there. And. Yeah, I'm just wondering if you can speak a little bit to that in terms of, do you feel like you used to do this? And if so, what did that look like, particularly around sex, if that was relevant.
Jason Lange: Yeah, I'd say in times past, for sure. You know, I would kind of. I'm naturally a caregiver. Like, you know, I get shit done for people in my life and will sometimes do go through extraordinary lengths to do that. And we'll expect, you know, sex in return or to at least be acknowledged or noticed for it. And then, you know, when I'm not, that's where subtle ways, and sometimes not so subtle ways of punishment would come through. But, you know, that's definitely something I've lived. Lived through all the time. You know, sometimes it's. And this goes both ways, you know, in my. My marriage right now as well, I still have them going sometimes, and I imagine my partner does too. Of, oh, well, I took an extra shift or for a couple minutes here. So I'm expecting that you're going to take a shift later on or something or adjust your calendar or schedule or something like that. If we haven't communicated that, that's not always. That's not known. That's not the case. One thing that I think is really important to highlight about COVID contracts is if you're on the other side of them, it's kind of unwinnable because you don't know the rules of the game. So it's like, how can you make your partner happy if you don't know the rules that you're playing by? So it can become a frustrating experience for both People of like, well, I didn't know that. If you had told me that, you know, da, da, da, da. So you can't be mad at me. Like, you can kind of get into that dynamic and something I've definitely fallen prey to before in so many ways. Yeah. I'm trying to. Trying to think of any very recent examples of this that. That may be coming up in my life. But it really just. Right now it feels like child management for us, like taking little shifts or getting up a little early and then expecting, well, that means tomorrow I get to sleep in. Right.
Melanie Curtin: And.
Jason Lange: Oh, but we haven't actually talked about it. So then resentment builds up. Um, and, you know, there's expectation there that isn't being met, rather than just more the direct conversations that, you know, we have had more recently.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah. And I think that's a great example. I mean, I know that's small, but I would imagine, you know, if it were me, right? And it was like, well, I got up early. The reason I wouldn't bring it up directly is because I'm scared. It's because I have shame of having a need. Like, hey, babe, like, I'm going to get up early to take care of the baby tomorrow. Would you mind getting up early to take care of her the next day would feel vulnerable to me because I think that I was trained to think that that would be selfish, that I should just give and I don't really have the right to receive. And again, I don't think that this is conscious for a lot of folks, but I think a lot of folks were trained on that. And so for me, the fear of coming across as selfish, the fear of being judged as selfish is, like, deep, you know, Like, I've been working on it. I'm still working on it. I'll probably be working on it for my whole life. But that shame, that. That feeling of like, I don't want to expose a need that I have, or even just a want, but, like, I want to sleep in the next day is a want. And I'm expecting my man to say, well, fuck you, you shouldn't be able to do that. Which, of course is irrational, but it doesn't matter that it's irrational, Right. It's limbic. It's something that was wired into me when I was really young. So I have to work pretty. You know, I have to work to figure that out and to actually be willing to be vulnerable, like you said, with my partner, and say, this is what I want. I'm curious, you know, in Terms of, you know, you. When you've been managing this with you're with Violet or in the past or whatever, have you found that it's ever worked out where it's after the fact, like, I've already gotten up early and taken care of the baby, and now I'd like you to do the same tomorrow. Has it ever worked to say, like, hey, I didn't realize I had this expectation, but I'm noticing that I do. And I'm wondering if we can just figure this out because I didn't ask beforehand and now we're here.
Jason Lange: Yeah, that's definitely stuff we've been processing. Two areas that come to mind are cooking. I'm lost in the kitchen. I don't know what I'm doing, and I haven't really put a whole lot of effort into trying to change that I have to own. But we did kind of fall into a pattern of there's an expectation she cooks for dinner, but it was never an above board agreement because I was juggling a few more jobs at the time. So in my mind, it made sense. Right. I'm holding more work, so you're going to cook. And that resentment would build up for her. I feel like I always have to do this. We've never talked about this, and we're negotiating ways out of that right now. One of my ways around that is a couple times a month, I would order out food for us. And so that's a covert contract I run. Well, if I'm ordering out food and paying for it a couple times a month, that balances you cooking all the time. But it kind of doesn't.
Melanie Curtin: The ledger becomes even. And like, in my head, there's this ledger running. I feel like that's such a. That's so true. We all do it. Like, here's column A, column B. Four times of you cooking equals one time of me ordering out. In my head, that's totally acceptable, but there's no discussion with the other person. And, you know, a possibility could be like, hey, I want this to feel good for both of us. I want this to feel good for both of us. Let's, like, talk about it and figure out what would actually feel good and supportive and nourishing. Because, you know, it might not necessarily be ordering out. Right. It might be. What I actually want is for this. These two things in the kitchen to get fixed. I need this to be different so that I can move more freely. Or, you know, it might be something you weren't expecting. And when you actually have A conversation. I'm curious, in your case, with the two of you, like, have you, you know, figured that out, or was it some other kind of agreement?
Jason Lange: Yeah, we're. We. One of the ways we're leaning is I'm going to learn how to make keto pizza. So I can make that, like, once a week. Like, that's like a. She would love to eat that. And I'd be like, oh, great. Okay. I think that's within the realm of what I could learn to make. So that's going to be a way I can kind of participate in that. In that, you know, another area, I think a more conscious area version of this that came up with us was maybe two or three months ago, you know, after being sheltered in place for months. And then we kind of had two months before that because we had a newborn, which is essentially, you just don't leave the house. Right. Too much. Um, I was pretty clear I needed some masculine, no demand time outside of the house. No matter. Even though I just adore my wife, I adore my child. So happy. I needed some, like, legit space. Um, and what that looked like was meeting someone up in Topanga for an outdoor hike and, like, taking an afternoon and really, like, getting out. And that was something that I got pretty clear, like, hey, this is something I need, so I need to pick a Friday. How can we arrange that? And then, you know, when can I offer you the same, right, like, where I would love to take Ruby for an afternoon at some point so you can go have some kind of experience. And that was a very conscious one. It was super above board. And that felt great, right? Cause then I, you know, I check in three quarters of the way through the hike, I'm like, hey, you know, we're still kind of meeting. She's like, it's all good. Like, just stay. There's no rush. Like, I got this. We planned for it. And it energized us both then that that was one where, you know, times past, I maybe wouldn't have consciously asked for it ahead of time and just been like, hey, I'm doing this thing. And just expected, like, haven't you noticed how hard I've been working, like, you know, and trying to co parent with you? Like, so much. Like, I could feel how that version could have been there. Like, just an expectation that I should just be allowed to go versus, like, I really need. I really kind of need this.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah, I think that's really worth slowing down around because I do think that's a pattern that Happens frequently of, like, let's say it's. It's the man needing space. I'm pretty sure my parents had this going on where my dad would just dip. Like, he would just, like, go sailing, and my mom would be like, what the fuck? And I think it was probably similar of, I need space. I need some time with no demands on me, where it's just me. And that is a need for the masculine. I mean, I think that's a need for all of us. But in this case, we're talking about the masculine. And so he would just completely dip. And the level of rage and resentment that that would prompt in her was way, like, outside of what I think it would have been in this case, which is what you did was you recognized the need for it. You honored your need for it. So it's not. I guess what I'm trying to say here is, again, that fear of being selfish, that fear of being labeled selfish, that fear of being seen as selfish, I think would block a lot of men from even saying, hey, I need this. This is something I need. Because they'd be afraid that their woman would be like, fuck you. I want time off too. Like, stop being selfish when it's really like, this is actually important. This is a need of mine. I am standing in the honoring of myself. How do we make this work as a couple? If you have a need and you bring it up with your partner, and you two can't work together as a team to get that met, that's a red flag. And you should probably listen to the borderline episode Borderline personality Disorder. Because if you're coming to your woman and you're like, I need this, and I want to figure out how we can have this feel good for both of us. And I do want you to have the same, or not exactly the same, but something that feels good to you, right? Maybe it's not necessarily a day away. I don't know what it is, but something that feels good to you. If you can't work together as a team, that's a red flag. But if you can. What you just pointed to was the fact that it was above board and that it was worked out. And it felt like a co plan. Like, we've planned this. This is time off that you planned. It feels like she was way more spacious around it. Like, yeah, dude, it's all good. We planned for this. I'm doing fine. Like, I'm glad you're having a great time. It actually makes me happy that you're out with Your boys like doing your thing, you know, that's exciting. And as we've discussed, for a lot of couples, you know, healthy time away actually improves the dynamic. So it's not even necessarily taxing in the same way as it could be or would be if it wasn't communicated. If it was just one day, you're like, I'm doing this. Another person's like, I'm sorry, what? We did what?
Jason Lange: Yeah, the more unilateral version that can sometimes spring out if it hasn't worked any other way and we've kept it too covered. I'm just, I'm just doing this, right? That's another way. That's like kind of a counter covert contract, I think in a way of instead of still actually bringing my partner into it and asking for it, I just like go do it. I think that's a way a different type of man can sometimes act. And you know, what we're talking about is bringing it more into a relational leadership space, right? Of I'm actually involving my partner, sharing my needs, sharing my want, sharing my desire. And then how can we make this work? Or here's my vision, right? It's. That's the thing we teach our guys over and over. We lead a little bit and then we listen. Here's my vision for how I'd like to get my needs met. How can we make that work for you?
Melanie Curtin: Yeah, it starts with that awareness of what the hell they are. And I think that many of the men that we work with, I think come into the program not even necessarily knowing what their wants and needs are, or like I said, thinking they're selfish. That really has come up a lot. I think it comes up really frequently and I don't think I can sort of stress it enough of, you know, reframing that. Reframing that idea of being selfish into healthy self care as a sacred part of your identity and a definitive need. It's not just a nice to have, it is an actual need. And it takes time to make that shift. It takes time to kind of get there. I want to give a couple other examples because I want to make sure this is very concrete. Here were a few other covert contracts that a few men listed. Cleaning the house in a myriad of ways, thinking my wife will clean up too, eventually. Going above and beyond sexually with enthusiasm, expecting my wife would also exhibit the same sexual behavior. Eventually working on my own self improvement, thinking my wife will also want to work on herself, right? So I'll take all these workshops, I'll do All of this therapy, I will get, you know, all this assistance, but the contract is, so you should too. And it's. And it's. It's again, it's that hope. It's like, oh, well, if I'm over here doing all this stuff, maybe she will too. And I. And I'm hoping. I'm, you know, expecting this should happen, but there's not a, hey, I need you to get support around sexuality. This is a need that I have in our relationship. Are you willing to do that? That's a scary conversation. I think there's a reason that a lot of men don't want to have that conversation. Because it's like they're afraid she's going to say, no, no, I'm not going to get help for that. No, I don't want to do no, I don't want to do it. Once that no is actually present in the room, in the space, in the relationship, now he's got to just decide what he's going to do about that. I think there's a lot of toeing around of like, well, I don't want to. I don't really want to know. Right. And that might not be conscious as well, but it's like I'm so afraid of knowing the answer that I don't want to open up the discussion. Right.
Jason Lange: Yeah. I mean, that's a great sub area of this is covert contracts can allow dynamics to last much longer than they might otherwise. Right. I think what you just spoke about is when we start to name our needs and ask for, you know, what we need in relationship, when we start to get clear answers. Clear answers generally lead to some kind of more specific action. Right. Oh, I thought, you know, I was kind of doing this thing. I thought that if we, you know, I thought if we took all these vacations to Thailand or whatever, that, you know, she would relax into her body and eventually our sex life would get better. But. Okay, it's not like, hey, you know, I'm wondering, could we go see a sex therapist or something like that? No, I'm not open to that. Oh, wow, okay. Do I want to stay in a relationship with a partner who's unwilling to meet me in this type thing? So I think that is a really key point that, you know, covert contracts can extend things and just kind of keep you stuck in these patterns where without real movement, because you're not really getting that thing. And, you know, this is something I certainly, you know, there's a manifestation of this that we were talking to some Guys about a couple of weeks ago that, like, by not ever really asking a girl out or telling her I was interested in her, but kind of spending time with her and, like, kind of doing stuff with her, like, there was this weird gray zone that I would often get stuck in for a long time, and eventually the pressure would build up so much that I'd be like, oh, my God, I like you. Do you like me back? I have to know. I need an answer tonight. And then it would finally, like, break, and I'd be like, okay, I'm free of this contract. She doesn't like me. But oftentimes not being willing to ask that earlier would, like, play that out so much longer for me.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah, that's a good point. And I think that's a good example of a covert contract of, like, I'll do things for you so that you spend time with me.
Jason Lange: Totally.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah. Which I think I've seen many of our clients and my clients in the past go through that of unconsciously. They don't necessarily feel like I'm worthy of spending time with just to spend time with, because I'm. I'm worthy. It's like, I'm only worthy if I'm doing something for you. And so they're not conscious of it. But there's this pattern that keeps enacting itself of, I feel like I need to pick you up at the airport, or I need to help you move, or I need to fill in the blank for you so that you will hang out with me instead of just, you know, like friends, you know, it's like, we hang out because I like being with you and you like being with me. It's not. There's no. I'm not doing something for you so that we'll hang out. We just hang out.
Jason Lange: Totally. I think there's even a version of this, too, around the. And this is just me, you know, so this is not going to be true for everyone. This is just my opinion I'm going to own here. Of in some of the ways it played out for me. Of the, like, there can kind of be a covert contract of. And I'm just totally okay being your friend. Like, we kind of did have a talk, and then I'm like, well, no, I'm not just in it for the sex. I can totally be okay with your friend just being your friend. Right. And the way that sometimes showed up for me is there's kind of a covert contract there that, like, well, if I fulfill this role long enough and you realize I'm not just in it for sex. You'll think, oh, wow, he really is a great guy who doesn't just want sex. I think I would have sex with him. You know, like that's like the, you know, that's the kind of crazy shit I think back in the day. Right. Or you know, in some sense, but.
Melanie Curtin: I think so common. I think that speak to a pattern that we've seen in many, many, many of our clients, which is I, I just, if I just thought if I was nice enough long enough, she would realize how nice I am and then she would want me. And it's so confusing when you really believe that to keep having it backfire. It's jarring. It's a confusing, frustrating, resentment inducing experience. To be like, I don't understand. And then you add in like, I'm so much better than those assholes. I'm so much better than that creep that you went home with from the club. I don't understand why, why would you sleep with him and not me? I do all these things for you. I'm so nice. Why don't you see me that way?
Jason Lange: Totally. Yeah. And it can be, you know, at some point it can, it can be self harming. Right. I think we have this story that, oh, if I just do this contract, it'll all be okay. But when we talk about needs and wants for guys, sometimes there's the owning that. Like, oh, yeah, actually it doesn't work for me. Every time we get together, you know, there's a part of me attached to something happening here. And when it doesn't happen, I kind of get resentful or I kind of get hurt versus like, oh, it's actually okay. I. I have a want to like be in an intimate relationship with you and you don't want to be. So I don't have to be your friend. Like, if that's not the case, it doesn't mean I don't like you and respect you as a person. It's just like, wow, to respect myself. I'm not gonna keep putting energy into this relationship. And you know, that can be tough, you know, on both sides, I think. But I think there's something important for guys to know about their needs and wants in that. That like, you can be a guy with a fucking great heart and it still might not be right for you to stay her best friend.
Melanie Curtin: Yes. Yes. I mean, I remember vividly having, you know, those serious crushes. I had like, serious crush on a guy in high school and he didn't like me Back And I don't remember. I never, I don't think I ever explicitly told him, I like you, But I was paying attention to the signs and I was like, he doesn't like me. He likes this other girl in our group. And I stopped hanging out where he was like, you know, you sort of know people's schedules in high school. And I was like, oh, I know that if he was my crush, I was like, if I go here, he'll probably be there. So I stopped going to those places because I was like, it just felt bad. It felt bad. It felt bad to be around him. And no, you don't like being around me. Back to me, for me, it was painful. It was like I felt a little rejected. I felt a little, you know, bad. And instead of continually exposing myself to a circumstance that prompted me to feel bad, I chose not to put myself in those circumstances. And I think there's this, sometimes there's this like, well, I should be strong enough or I should be able to do it type of mentality. I'm not a fan of that. I'm like, you know what? No, like, kind of like you said, self harm. It's like, you wouldn't touch a hot stove at this point in your emotional development. That's a hot stove. So like, don't touch the hot stove. Maybe, maybe, maybe eventually down the road you'll get to a point. But it's like, but we're here right now, right now. Where's your heart? If this is hurting your heart repeatedly or your self esteem, you know, protect yourself. I think that's really what came down to for me was I was protecting myself from, from harm.
Jason Lange: I think that's so important. And I really want, you know, guys and ladies listening to. Let that one sink in that you don't have to, like, it's actually okay. You're not a bad person. It doesn't mean you were just into somebody for the sex. Like, there's all kinds of stories we attach to that, but it just means it's not right for you and you need to take care of yourself right now. Like, that's totally okay. There's, you know, there's one other thing I wanted to, that just sprang to mind that I just want to paint a picture of, of like why it's so important to kind of do the work we're like, we're talking about to identify your needs and learn how to ask for them in relationship is I really, truly believe it's the key to actually being able to love your partner and for them to love you. Right. If you don't know what you need and can't ask for it, it's really hard for a partner to, like, successfully love you. But I know every time I've been in, you know, in a situation with Violet where she's really asked for what she needed or I really asked for what I needed, you know, there's a part of us that's like, oh, they should just know. They should just know. But there's also like, oh, that feels so good, because now I really know how to meet the needs of my partner, and I can do that, and I can really opt into that. And it becomes a really, I think, necessary and powerful thing for, you know, sustainable relationship of if I can identify it and I can kind of bring it above board and ask for it. It's much easier for my partner to actually literally love me by doing the things that nourish me or support me. And if we don't have that, like I said, it kind of becomes this unwinnable gray zone. I'm just going to keep lobbing free throws and hope one hits, you know, but my eyes are closed. I don't know what's going on. So I think really kind of bringing it above board is just so important.
Melanie Curtin: I have a good example of this. My. My dad and stepmom. My stepmom told me the story where I think they had gone to counseling or something. And anyways, what came up was that she often felt left out when he would leave the house to go do. Do things that she didn't want to do. Like, she didn't want to play golf. She didn't want to go sailboat racing. She didn't want to do the things, but she felt a little left out. So what they came to is he would always, always invite her, and then she. She would usually say no. Like, almost nothing changed in terms of what she attended. She didn't attend anything, but she felt so much more loved. And it was an easy one that took them years. She was like, I wish we'd figured this out a decade ago, because it would have saved me a lot of heartache. And what would happen is that, you know, he would leave to go sailing or whatever it was. She would feel left out, and then she'd be a little resentful and a little cold, right? And so this whole thing would happen, and he'd be confused because it was like, I don't. I don't really know what. What happened. Like, I. When I left, we were fine. I don't really understand what just happened. And so it prevented a lot of things. And like you said, it was. She felt loved. So then instead of feeling left out, she felt loved not only because he invited her, but because they had had this conversation about how this could be resolved. And he. And every time he did it, she was like, oh, he's. He's paying attention to what we talked about. He's paying attention to this dynamic that we named, like. It just was, like, so heartwarming. And I think that's a. That's a good example of, like you said, like, the ways people need to be loved might not be what you necessarily expect. You know, you talked about cooking. One thing I've noticed is I don't mind cooking for my housemates or whoever it is if I get company in the kitchen. So it's not. I don't even need help. I don't need you to chop or anything. Just be around. You know what I mean? Just. I just need a little company that I feel, you know, I don't know, part of something or whatever. And that might not necessarily be what you would expect. It might be like, oh, you probably want me to do. Do something. Or, you know, you're even doing the dishes. And, like, I don't mind helping with the dishes. I just don't want to do them alone. I just want company. So it is important to actually discuss things. And as we wrap up here, I'm wondering if you have any advice for a man who might be listening, who might say, holy shit, yeah, I definitely have covert contracts. I'm realizing how many I've had. You know what. What steps should I take to kind of address that?
Jason Lange: Well, I have to. I'm going to start, obviously, with plugging us of, like, you can do our program.
Melanie Curtin: We're going to.
Jason Lange: We're going to walk you through identifying and starting to uncover some of what you actually need, like, in relationship and what you desire that you might be a little bit aware of and you might not be aware of. But beyond that, you know, I think it really does start with just simply becoming more aware of. You know, I like to use kind of resentments as the kind of metal detector in the world of where do I feel resentful of relationships or situations? Because, like, we were talking about, there's often a correlation there where I'm feeling resentful because I feel like I'm playing a part in some kind of contract and it's not being met. Right. Like, there's. There's Something that is obvious to me, so I assume it should be obvious to other people. And it really pisses me off that I'm not getting, you know, the reciprocity there. So just starting something as simple as a resentment journal, you know, would be one simple thing of just noticing throughout your day, throughout your week, where do you feel resentful? Okay, why do I feel resentful? And then there might be a covert contract just hanging right there of, oh, wow, yeah, you know what? I always take my coworker to work and he's never offered once to pay for gas, but I've never asked him, right? Like, it could just be something simple like that. And then, hey, you know what? I've noticed we've been doing this and I'm just wondering, would you be willing to pitch in for gas, you know, once a month or something? And they're like, yeah. And then you're like, oh, sweet, now this is fun again. You know, instead of, why doesn't he notice? I've driven every time. You know, this is one made up version of that I could see. But yeah, starting a resentment journal and then kind of decoding from there would be a huge takeaway and something we do guide guys through.
Melanie Curtin: I like that, especially because of the metal detector comment. Because like I said, I think sometimes we don't realize that we have a covert contract until after the fact. And I think not. Don't shame yourself if that's the case. It's not about, I shouldn't have done this. It's more like, oh, I see that this is here now. And then what, you know, what do I do about it? I would also add, if you are. If you. If you are resonating with this episode and you are interested in going deeper, two things. There's our program, and you can do a free training at Evolutionary Men slash training. And I would also encourage you, if you haven't read no More Mr. Nice Guy, the book by Dr. Robert Glover, I would also recommend that that's the origin. I believe he coined the term covert contract. And I think there's just a bunch of gems in that book. So again, that's no more Mr. Nice Guy, the key to getting love, sex and relationships that you really want. Something like that. There's A subtitle by Dr. Robert Glover. There's a couple different ones.
Jason Lange: So, yeah, you got. Everybody should read it. I mean, there's just some simple things there that whether you're a nice guy or not, there's some really simple concepts there that'll that make life easier? Honestly, just like, oh, okay. This is one way to approach life that's a little bit easier.
Melanie Curtin: Yeah. And ultimately feels better.
Jason Lange: Yeah, totally.
