Can Men’s Groups END Mental Health Stigma? (ft. Jason Longe) | Neelu Gurung Podcast

Host: Welcome to the Neelugurung Podcast. In this episode we explore a crucial do men's group intervention reduce mental health stigma? We will dive into how these groups function, their impact on breaking down barriers to mental health support, and hear personal stories of transformation. Join us as we uncover the power of community and conversation in changing perceptions and promoting mental well being among men. Stay tuned for an enlightening discussion. The episode question is, do men's group intervention reduce mental health stigma? Studies indicate that men's group intervention, including both in person and online format, have been effective in reducing mental health stigma. Empowerment and psychological flexibility are key mechanisms driving these changes. While short term benefits are well documented, further research is needed to act access the sustainability of this intervention over the long term. Here with us is Jason. He is a man's embodiment coach, group facilitator, and evolutionary guide. He helps men drop in and wake up to deeper clarity in their life's repose and relationship. He believes every man should be in a man's group for the growth and support opportunities they provide. Welcome to the show, Jason.

Jason Lange: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Host: I like to start our interview with what motivated your focus on men's mental health and the role of men's group?

Jason Lange: Yeah, absolutely. So my passion for men's groups and now leading them really is born out of my own personal journey in that I'm a white male raised in the kind of lower middle class of the United States and had a lot of privilege afforded to me in terms of pretty much all my basic security needs were met growing up. But as I became a teenager and then an adult, really started to discover that what was missing in my family life growing up was any sense of interiority, so emotional connection and honestly even touch and presence. So we just kind of lived in the same house, but there wasn't really any attunement or safety at an emotional level in my family. And so I grew up not knowing that. And as I became an adult and kind of got out into the world, I found, lo and behold, I often felt very isolated, very alone, very uncomfortable in my own skin, anxious, not sure how to connect with other people. And that kind of kick started my own personal journey of, you know, healing and growth and trying to figure out how to become a more whole and healthy version of myself. And I got very lucky in my mid-20s where I happened to be living at the time, I got connected with my first men's group and that radically changed the course of my life because it Taught me, first and foremost, how to connect to myself and get in touch with my own emotions and body and desires and wants, and then how to communicate that with other people, with other men in particular. And gave me a safe place to kind of bring my challenges, my hurts, my failures when life wasn't going my way, and get supported in the process, which ended up making me feel more connected and more resilient to do the things I wanted to move towards in my life.

Host: To dive deeper. Could you explain what men's group are and how they typically operate?

Jason Lange: Yeah, it's such a great question. Men's groups, you know, it's a term that can be very vast. In the same way we could say we could talk about meditation, can actually mean a whole bunch of different things. But men's groups in general, how I like to describe them is it's a collection of men coming together with intention to put their attention on each other, to talk about what's really going on in life, and to help each other really feel what is true in our bodies and in our nervous systems. So I focus on men's groups. But part of the magic is really just this idea that when we get to spend time with people who have had a shared experience of the world as us, we've been taught the same things, had the same expectations put on us, whatever that might be, whether we're a man, a woman, or at certain genders or races, something gets to relax. And I think that's pretty potent for men. Where a lot of men are taught from a young age that other men are competition and something we have to protect ourselves against, and other men are a threat. And so men's groups can particularly be a healing place where we can learn that no, the. The right men in our life can actually be allies for us. And so a good men's group helps men slow down, really get clear about what they're feeling in their bodies, in their lives, about what they want, what's not working, where they're going, what they need, which then gives them the clarity to move back to their lives when, with more intention and more consciousness. And a lot of us men, for various reasons, you know, kind of fall for this belief. We're supposed to just be tough. We're supposed to do everything alone, and we're never supposed to show any vulnerability. And the cost that has on men long term is extraordinarily high in terms of our mental health, our emotional health, and even our physical health. We start to feel isolated, alone and stressed out, like we're holding the weight of the world. So a men's group is a safe place to kind of bring our burdens as men and have them be seen and witnessed and supported when we're down, as I say, and sometimes also held accountable when there's something important that we want to move forward in life. So what's really important is that a men's group's not just getting together and like hanging out and watching the game or playing a sport or something like that. It's much more intentional about slowing down and really putting our attention on each other as men to get clear about what are we wanting in our life and what feels like it's in the way. And then other men can help us get there faster, in my experience.

Host: Expanding on that, let's discuss what are some common activities that take place in these groups?

Jason Lange: Yeah, so different men's groups can have different focuses, but oftentimes many men's groups will get together to do what we call embodiment practices. So sometimes these can be certain types of meditation. Sometimes these can be things like qigong, tai chi, kundalini, yoga. Really any practice that gets us into our bodies and out of our heads is often a really important part of a men's group, as is this practice of kind of checking in with the group. So it's. Every man gets an opportunity to kind of bring his voice forward and share a little bit about what he's feeling and what's happening in his life and where he might feel stuck and need some help and need some feedback and need some support. And then the other men can often guide that man to deeper into his truth so he can leave the meeting having a much clearer path forward of what he needs to do. Some groups can be accountability based, meaning, you know, we all bring a challenge or a goal or something we want to create or work on. And the group holds each other accountable to moving that forward with specifics and logistics each week. And other groups can be just more on the supportive and where it's just about getting connected to other men. Many, many men, like, like I said, often report loneliness in isolation. So some groups have more of a kind of connective theme where we're just sharing and listening to each other. A good group is going to kind of have all of these things. It's going to have some accountability, some embodiment practices, some support, and, you know, a layer of just socializing with each other as well. But there's many different ways to run a men's group, but the, the real intention is Every man, by the time he comes out of there should feel more present, more grounded, more connected to himself, more connected to the other men, and more clear about where his life is going.

Host: Shifting gears, let's examine how men's group specifically work to reduce mental health stigma.

Jason Lange: Yeah, so, you know, there are quite a few statistics about how men in particular are very susceptible to loneliness and isolation. And, you know, over the age of 30, many men increasingly these days report having maybe one to two close friends at the most, some not even that. And what this isolation does in this kind of paradigm, a lot of us men are raised in of, you know, never show vulnerability, never show weakness, always be tough. Other men are a competition is. It isolates us, and it makes us feel like we have to carry all of our stress and burden and worries and grief and fears alone. And most of us men are not equipped for that. So that shows up as tension we're holding in our bodies. We get stressed out, we get fatigued, we have heart attacks. Men traditionally have had higher suicide rates. You know, they can look at things like heart disease can be tracked to how connected you feel to social groups in your life. And that feeling lonely is just as dangerous as poke smoking a pack of cigarettes a day or being morbidly obese. And there's even some research that shows, you know, just being part of a group, not even a men's group, but any kind of group, social group or club that meets with regularity can decrease your chance of dying in the next year by like 50%. It's pretty, pretty, pretty powerful. And as humans, you know, we're wired to be social creatures, to be in relationship. And so many men have lost that. And as our society has kind of changed and structures have changed, there's, you know, even where I'm at, right, there's more and more work from home. There's not even an office to go to. You can order all your groceries and food on Amazon and just have it delivered to your house. There's less and less kind of natural places for us to meet and relate and connect, particularly to other men once we get out of school or college or certain work environments. So men get lonely and they get stressed out and they get scared and they isolate when they're in pain. And that shows up as health challenges, emotional burdens, depression. You know, there's more people on antidepressants, particularly men now, than there ever have been before. And part of what I'm speaking to here is a men's group can provide connection, which is often the tonic so many men are desperate for just feeling connected to other people who care about them and are there from them when they need it. So in men's group becomes a place we can get our connection needs met, which tends to increase our mental health and well being extraordinarily. And it teaches us men. A good men's group gives us men a place to, to bring our emotional selves. So a lot of men I know come to me when they, when they're getting into the work and they'll tell me things like, I wish I could cry, but I can't, I've been trained out of it my whole life. Or they are explosively angry when they're reactive against things. And a men's group teaches us how to be present with our emotional experience and share it in a safe way so it doesn't control us in our lives. And when we don't have that as men, what I tend to see for a lot of guys is then they reach for some kind of substance or something outside of themselves to try to make themselves feel better. Whether that's alcohol, weed, porn and masturbation, eating food, overworking. These are things that a lot of men will get addicted to. And what it's really about is they're emotionally dysregulated. And a men's group can be a place where we teach men how to emotionally regulate themselves.

Host: That brings up another question. Could you share any success stories or case studies where men's group have made a significant impact?

Host: And.

Jason Lange: And before his men's group, he didn't even think that was something he could ask for. He never gave himself permission. And it was a men's group that helped him identify like, hey man, you gotta live life sustainably. You never know what's gonna happen unless you ask. And so he asked and his life radically changed because he was able to take a break and honor himself and recharge in a way he hadn't let himself for decades. For other men, it. I've seen them go through, you know, unfortunately, like life tragedies, losing a partner or a parent or a job. And the men's group gives them a place to not hold that all inside alone and allows them to bring it forward into connection, which resources them to take on, you know, whatever the next steps in that challenge might be. So I, I've seen so many men's lives transform, being in groups and leading groups, and it's totally transformed my life too.

Host: To gain a better understanding. Could you tell us more about the challenges men's group face in addressing mental health stigmas?

Jason Lange: Yeah, the biggest one is most men are taught from a young age and have this belief that emotions are weak and showing emotion or having emotion makes you less tough. And so there's often a stigma for men around connecting to their emotions, which includes sometimes something as simple as going to therapy. A lot of men think, oh yeah, therapy, being emotional, that's just weak. And breaking through that stigma is a big part of what we have to do in men's groups. And it's why I love working in a group. Because in a group, men get to quickly see another man who might be grieving something really painful in his life or sharing a frustration and anger about something, a boundary that really matters to him in his life, but he's doing so in a way where he doesn't feel dangerous or reactive, but his anger is actually safe. Or this other man grieves completely. And we realize, wow, that wasn't. That wasn't weak. That was really strong, that that man was able to feel that. I'm scared to feel that. And so there's this impact we see in men's groups of loosening up these kind of constrictions and stories so many men have of I'm never allowed to share when I'm scared or hurt or alone. You know, for a lot of men, the only emotion they're allowed is anger. And men's group is a place where we get to kind of push back against that narrative that no, you know, actually, who's more afraid in the world, A man who's terrified of his emotions or a man who knows how to. Right. Go into them and hold them and process them in a safe and contained way. And pretty quickly, men's group can really start to help men see the ladder, that it's a real superpower, It's a real strength to be able to bring our vulnerability forward and push back against these kind of cultural narratives.

Host: Let's transition to another important aspect. How have these groups changed the way participants view mental health and seeking help?

Host: To gain a clearer understanding. Jason, could you elaborate on the role societal norms and expectations play in men's mental health stigma?

Jason Lange: Yeah. The quickest way I could summarize this is the idea of the man box, which is a term I didn't come up with, but really works here. And it's this idea that there's a box we are expected to fit in as men, and if we don't, we're considered not a man. And this box is kind of a checklist of things, ways we have to be. And that checklist includes never cry, never be weak, never show vulnerability. Other men should be your competition. If sex is available to you, take it. Override your body. Always work harder. Pull yourself up by the bootstraps. You can kind of start to get a sense of a lot of what us men absorb. You know, you're only as good as how much money you make. Like these, these. These messages get kind of hammered into us from a young age. And in general, men in many cultures are actually encouraged and taught to be disembodied, to disconnect from their bodies. Right? So stop crying or sit still. You know, these are things a lot of boys hear from a young age. And when you think about them, what they're really saying is, ignore your body and override it with your head. And so we teach men and we value men for being up in their heads and not connected to their bodies because it lets them work more. They can work 80 hours a week, they can harm their bodies. And high intensity sports. We can send them off to war, we can send them to dangerous jobs. And just all around for a lot of reasons, we're taught to not be in our bodies and not be connected consequently to our emotions, which start as sensations in our bodies. And so this pressure of the man box starts at a very young age. And then, you know, we. We actually intensify it with each other, particularly as young boys in adolescence and kind of early teenage years, it really strengthens this even more that you Always got to be tough, never show any weakness. And then men grow up and lo and behold, they're used to not sharing anything, never showing any vulnerability. And emotionally and mentally, this catches up with them pretty fast.

Host: Let's take a moment to discuss how can communities and policymakers support the growth and effectiveness of men's group?

Jason Lange: Yeah, I've never thought about it from a policy level before, so my answer here is actually going to be more from a personal level in that if you're, let's say you're a woman out in the world and you know a man who's isolating or suffering or alone, you know, to introduce to him this idea of, hey, maybe you should reach out to some friends or find a men's group where you can get some support. And that can sometimes open the doorway. And to any men out there listening, it can be as simple as being the one to go first. So not letting a conversation just stay at the surface level to talk about sports or politics or something like that, but to really slow things down and ask the people you're with, the men you're with, to get present with them, where are you in pain? What's hurting right now? Where do you feel stuck? What are you wanting in your life? What are you wanting to create more of? What are you wanting to move towards more of? And it can be a great gift to men because a lot of men feel like they have no space really, to bring themselves forward these days. And that's what a good men's group can interrupt. So, you know, probably from a policy level, the most potent place I could see this happening would be if. If something like this could get created in schools for young boys and teenage boys, for them from an early age to get an imprint of, hey, it's okay that you don't have it all figured out, that you've messed up, that you're scared, that you're vulnerable. In fact, these men here with you, these brothers, these other boys, they can become your allies in life. So I would love to see more men's groups, in particular for young boys.

Host: Let's shift our focus to future direction for research or practice in this area. How do you envision this?

Jason Lange: Yeah, I think we're at the beginning of a tidal wave of men's work and men's groups right now in particular. When I started this work 20 years ago, if you said men's group, most people would think maybe of a church group here in the US but in the last five years in particular, it's really taking off. And there's a lot more cultural presence and talk and conversation around the many ways that men are hurting. You know, everybody's hurting on this planet, but men in particular are a little left behind in some sense because we're not as well wired to socialize and to reach out for connection and community. And as our technology kind of takes over our lives and it leaves us a little more vulnerable. So I just want to see this work continuing to spread so that any man who wanted to be in one could be in a men's group. That's really part of my vision in that, you know, I'm one person kind of bringing this torch forward. But there's a lot of people, there's a lot of research, there's a lot of books coming out right now about the importance of men get connecting, getting connected to other men, starting as early as young childhood and as boys, the importance of, you know, what being around other healthy boys and what being around healthy male role models in particular can do. And it turns out even just one intervention of a younger or an older, caring, supportive, masculine figure in your life can drastically change the course of a young man's life. So I would love to see men's groups be experimented with, you know, like I said, in the school systems and beyond in terms of support groups becoming available. You know, in. In some ways they are in recovery world right now, but even for people who aren't in acute recovery that just need some connection and support in their lives.

Host: Jason, how can listeners get involved or support men's mental health initiatives? Host: It's been a pleasure having you. Where can listeners find more information about your work and get in touch with you?

Jason Lange: Yeah, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. You can find out all about me at the website Evolutionary. So it's not dot com, it's actually dot Men. And I have a podcast called Evolutionary Men on there. I have some writings, I have different programs, men's groups I run. And there's a way to contact me. So even if you don't want to work with me, you're like, hey, how do I find a men's group? You know, reach out to me. I'll. I'll help you find some resources in your area to get connected.

Host: As we come to the end of our time, what final thoughts would you like to leave with our listeners about the importance of addressing mental health stigma through men's group?

Jason Lange: Yeah, that men, this is a message for you in particular. You don't have to suffer alone. Everything hard in life is made even harder when we do it alone. And having the support of a group of men at your back and at your side, it doesn't make life necessarily easier, but it will make it a whole lot better.

Host: Thank you for joining us on the Nilugurung Podcast. In this episode, we explore the transformative power of men's group in reducing mental health stigma. We have heard how these groups foster open conversation, provide support and challenge societal norms. The stories and insights shared highlight the importance of community in promoting mental well being. Remember, breaking down stigma starts with each of us. If you are someone you know could benefit from such support, don't hesitate to reach out. Stay tuned for more enlightening discussion and let's continue to campaign mental health together. Until next time, take care and be well.