Shadow Work & Intimate Relationships (with Luke Adler)

Jason Lange: All right, and welcome back. Excited to be back here for another episode of the Heart of Shadow series I've been doing with my man Dr. Luke Adler here, who's my co facilitator in the Heart of Shadow program. And today we wanted to talk about relationships and our experiences as men who are in long term relationships and how shadow work can impact that and relate to that and how the work we're doing in the Heart of Shadow program and the work Luke and I do with each other has, you know, changed the way we're able to show up in our, in our marriages, ourselves, and just the many ways we see men struggling and how. I think shadow work can often be, you know, another great tool to put in the toolkit when it comes to relationships and, and struggles and whatnot.

Luke Adler: It's well said. So beautiful. Um, yeah, thank you for being so vulnerable about your process too, with your wife. And it definitely stirred in me, you know, a recent process where we've been in, where, you know, I have a six year old and a nine year old and, you know, those first, you know, Those first four, five, six years raising a child or so intense and pretty much a time of survival. And my wife Emily's been, you know, telling. Telling the girls that, you know, daddy's been tired when you were younger, Daddy was really tired. And. And I kind of clued into that because that my daughters will be like, dad, you were really tired when we were little. And I'm like, why do they know that? You know, why is that? And that's a. That is something that Emily's told them. And it's. It started to. Started to irritate me. I'm like, why is that a story that's in their heads? And so part of me's been, you know, kind of a yes man. I want to keep the peace. So I'm not challenging my wife when she's saying these things, like, you know, you were really tired, you weren't around, et cetera, because I just don't want.

Jason Lange: To get into it.

Luke Adler: But inevitably, here's a. Here's a. Here's a consequence of that. She's enrolled our daughters in this whole narrative. Like, oh, my God, my daughters are going around saying that Daddy's tired, Daddy's this and that. And I'm like, you know what? The weight of providing for a family, whoever has that role, but in our marriage, it's a little bit more traditional. Like, I'm. I'm the. More of the provider financially, et cetera, and she provides more of the nurturance. And that's how it's set up. I know that's not every couple, but it. It. It's how ours is. And I just got in touch with the weight of actually providing for a family is intense. To have that in your nervous system, to be holding that and living with that is. Is intense. And it's an intense weight to hold the nurturance and the care for children like that. I'm responsible. I'm the one ultimately responsible. I'm speaking with my wife, who is shaping these children that I'm in. The choices I'm making around their food and their education and the words that. The words and the semantics and the. The culture that I'm educating my children, that I'm the. I'm owning how that's going to affect how their. Their adulthood plays out. Um, and as I started to get in touch with my fire around it, I'm like, I'm realizing, honey, you know, back off a little bit. If I'm tired, it's because I'm holding this in my nervous system 24 7, just like in your nervous system, you're holding, shaping the future of our children's lives. And so give me a little space. Give me a little space and a little credit and. And please don't share a story with my children, our children, that daddy's tired and daddy can't show up in this and that way because this is a way in which you just don't get it. And in the same way that I'm not holding what you're holding. So it's an interesting exploration because for me, it started. There was a way in which I was tolerating this kind of narrative arc. And then I started to get agitated enough to want to speak up. I could see that go two ways. Either, like, you know what? I still don't want to keep the peace. Let me bite down on this even more and go into more of a deadened nervous system where I'm tired and sub or covertly resistant or become covertly hostile towards my wife. Really pull away with a deeply suppressed fuck you in there. And it's just. I think what's beautiful about shadow work is it's enabled me to be in touch with more of my prime, my primal and primary, and I would say even soulful reaction that I don't like that story being told about me. And it's not entirely true. There's context around it that that needs to be offered and more of a gratitude scenario. Like, aren't we thankful that daddy's doing this and that to provide for us without it having to mean that I'm like some dominant white male and she's, you know, more submissive? It's. It's none of that. It's just here's. Here's the reality of our lives playing out. And, you know, had I not had a. A men's group to express that, then my default would have definitely been more towards the peacekeeping. I mean, I've had enough training that I wouldn't have put up with it forever. But part of relational attuning is what within our dynamic is beginning to deaden us and interrupt our respect for one another, which originates with ourselves. Like, I'm starting to not respect myself because of what's playing out in our relationship. I'm engaging in a dynamic that maybe I saw my parents do. So. Yeah, so this big one, yeah, it's quite a.

Luke Adler: Yeah, that's, that's eloquently laid out. That heat of the moment is just when you were describing that scene. I'm thinking about being in the heat of the moment with my wife and you know, getting better at being in that moment and feeling in me that that fire that could dehumanize her, begin to object, treat her like an object. And with the work that we've done, you know, in our, in our shadow work, as our, as our men's group, I, I can most of the times keep some awareness of my love for her in that moment. I mean, honestly, most of the time, like 95% of the time, not like 55% of the time and feel like I don't, I don't want to lose touch with her heart. And, and I, and I also get aware of, I don't want to become self righteous and resistant to her point of view either. I want to stay open to what she's saying and not, not get lost in the energy of our passion in that moment. And so obviously it's a very, it's in a very advanced move that I'm trying to pull off. But in terms of a relational edge, it's, it's so wonderful to just stay with it and then realize, okay, here there's just too much fire and we just need to take a little bit of a break right now. Pause and breathe. And you know, because we have kids now, now there's an awareness of okay, they, they've heard us tussle, they've been listening to this happen. Now we actually need to demonstrate reconnection and some apologies in front of them so the kids can see that, so that we're not fighting privately and we're not apologizing privately either, then it's all, it's all out there that whether they can see it or not, we're always on stage as, as parents and in a certain sense, as leaders. We're always on stage too energetically. This is being just transmitted into our environment. So that, that ability, I mean, to me, that skill set, that work, it's what all of our shadow work is for. You know, it's so that in those intense moments where I'd say we're learning our deepest life lessons and we're cultivating our most refined skills around conflict and confrontation and keeping the heart of the matter present, that is. That is some of the biggest growth we're going to do in our lifetime. And all of that has come through my work with men. It has not come through my work with meditation. Meditation is. Meditation allows me to stay in not just the nice guy, but the, the complete observer, you know, the, the witness consciousness, where I'm totally unbothered by it, but I'm not. I have no ability to engage right in the moment. So that's the power of, of men's work and skill. Well, shadow work and skill building around it is how do I get right in there and hold, hold right at the surface that my love and care is what's most important. And in order for that love to stay strong, I have to bring my honesty forward with as much love, respect and care from my wife, Emily as is needed without diluting what's. What's true for me. Because if I dilute the message, she doesn't receive it fully. If I'm putting too much sugar on it and making it sacred and syrupy, she's not going to feel. She's not going to get the transmission that, hey, I'm serious, this hurts me, this is bothering me, et cetera and so on, so that, that I, I think the relationship. This is where all of our work comes to, comes to bear and be, you know, the most important place. Whether you're a man who's trying to get into relationship, you or a man who's already in relationship. We're, we're all. We're practicing all this for that domain.

Jason Lange: Yeah, I love that so much. And, you know, I was actually just working with a therapist I work with sometimes, and it's been helpful for my relationship. And he, he said something yesterday that just really ties into what you're saying of like, yeah, we know we know we're growing when we start having different reactions in the same situations. Right. So when the same pattern, the same fight or the same thing keeps happening, but suddenly we are able to react differently. That's when we know something is showing up and changing. And that's what I hear you speaking to. Of, you know, this. We can meditate and observe the situation endlessly, but. Right. Why relationships are, you know, in your. And I mind, I think in a lot of ways, where the rubber meets the road is that's where your transformation shows up. Right. An intimate relationship.

Luke Adler: Our.

Jason Lange: There's.

Luke Adler: We didn't get that, our fathers didn't get that, grandfathers. I mean, in a lot of ways we're at least of our modern era, the first men who are being pushed to evolve into this kind of much more integrated way of being. And so it's being around our contemporaries, you know, men like you and I, men in their 50s, 60s, 70s, men in their 20s, 30s, 40s, who are actually templating. We're templating for each other. We're creating a template of what it is to be a healthy, loving, present, strong, visionary male. And we're learning to do that together. We're becoming that in a certain sense. We're becoming the men that this world is needing right now. And that women can't do that for us. They can't template that for us. They can template a kind of motherly nurturing energy, but they can't actually do what we need. That's why a men's group is, is crucial. It's really the only venue where this healing can play out. And I was so heartened as you mentioned our men's group. Again, Jason, because our men's group has been going for six, seven years each inside of this context. And like you said, the work we do has just gotten so much more nuanced and beautiful and attuned and we've, we've facilitated work that I, I could never even dream of creating. It's creative, it's insightful, it's nurturing on a human level, on a spiritual level. And that's why part of our mission is for groups to have continuity that it, this is why just a three day, a four day, a five day retreat for men or whoever, but for men in particular is not useful. This is why even having a retreat once a year, twice a year isn't useful. It's the continuity of a retreat with relationship building before and after, and then a commitment to meeting regularly. This is so important right like, my dad wasn't around growing up, so I'm used to being the lone wolf so I could have a great experience. And I'm like, fuck it, I love you guys. Bros forever. Peace out. And like, maybe I'll see you in a year, maybe not. But who gives a fuck? I am built to be a solo warrior. It does not work to heal our deepest wounding, our attachment wounds. It has. We have to have relationship over time. We have to make contact one another over time and build intimacy and trust. And that's why you and I put so much effort into the group's continuation. And we're fully committed to it because we've seen six, seven years of a continuous group of men staying together. It changes your nervous system, it changes your family, it changes the world. Because for so many of us, we did not have that. We might have had a person in our lives called dad, but his loving presence over time, I mean, God bless him, but wasn't there. It was interspersed, it was intermittent. Right. And it's not that we need our hands held all the time and our pat on the back. Good job, son. I love you. We don't need that all the time. When we need something that's consistent if we as men are going to heal. And that's, that's kind of like the big swan song of our work. Like, that's good. That's why we do it. That's why this program works. And that's why, you know, it, it's, it's harder for us, Jason. It's harder for you and I to do this. Like, it would be much easier to just have a five day. Love you guys. Peace out. You and I have to keep our nervous system on to some degree, even for the group we led, you know, a year plus ago. Like, we're still both attuned to those guys.

Jason Lange: Yeah, yeah. And the, the, their work still informs my work. Right. I mean, we share something now. But I think this is so important, what you just highlighted of.

Luke Adler: Yeah, it is.

Luke Adler: Jason and I know that y' all are out there listening and that, you know, you gotta be resonating with us. If you listen to this podcast and you got this far, then you're resonating with what we're. We're putting down. And, you know, if you're thinking, wow, I've got so much work to do, there's so much wounding. Just get started. Just begin. It is such a relief. It is such a relief to get on that first zoom call and have the first few men start to share, and then you start to feel what Jason and I were talking about. Oh, my gosh. Here's a present. Masculine figure. They don't want anything from me. They're not trying to fix me. They're not trying to change me. They're not trying to fucking motivate me. They're just here. They're here with their heart, they're here with their head. They're here with their loving intuition. And that helps me relax. And inside of that relaxation, something in your nervous system starts to unwind. Some twist, some knot within us that. That had to be there because we weren't loved and held in some way. And as those knots release, even in that first zoom session, that sense of. There's like a sense of taking a deeper breath than you've ever taken before. And that just, that relaxation and attunement, it grows and grows. And as it grows deeper, pains and wounds reveal themselves. That's what. That's what we're here for. And when you jump into that, you'll find the next call is rich. The next call is deep. We get together for four, three and a half days in this gorgeous place north of San Francisco. And the sense of connection, friendship, deepening, loving presence gets stronger. And we get on the phone call a week later, it's still there. And after nine, 10 weeks, you've got this really deep, powerful container that we're here to continue to serve. So if you're here listening, we've got one spot left. And we'd love for. If someone's out there and you're. You're thinking about it, jump in. This is the time to do it. Next week, you're gonna meet nine other men, and you'll be. I promise you'll be more than grateful you did. And your life will start to change. It. It really will. This isn't. This isn't New Age bullshit. This is. This is real. This is something that. That we have lived and seen, seen work. So, yeah, if you have questions, you can reach out to us on our website, heartofshadow.com and, yeah, we'd love to be with you. Whether it's in this cohort or the next. We're going to be doing this again in six, seven months. So it's our commitment to keep this rolling. This is. This is in some ways probably the place where I think, Jason, you and I, we pour it on. We give. We give everything to this program because it's. It's our way of. Of contributing to the world improving. We really believe that men transforming is the key to having a more beautiful, just equitable world. So we love you guys and reach out. We're here. We're happy to get on the phone, call, get on a chat, whatever is needed. And women out there listening. If you have a man that's interested, nudge him, push him, push him. We're here. We can hold all the things you don't want to hold. We can hold it. We're really good at it. And the kind of relationship that's on the other side of. Of a man in this work is so incredibly deep and rewarding. So, lots of love, Jason. Thank you so much for everything you do.

Jason Lange: Yeah, thanks for being here, man. Till next time. If you're interested in working with me around dating relationships, or your masculine presence in the world, just go to evolutionary men. Apply.