Father & Son Rites of Passage with Luke Entrup

Jason Lange: All right, and welcome back. I am super excited today to welcome Luke Entrop, a leadership coach teacher who also leads rite of passage work and passage programs for boys and their father figures. And Luke is a near and dear friend of mine who I've had the pleasure of getting to go pretty deep with these last years. And, yeah, just a brilliant, brilliant man and personality with his own kickass podcast that I've just been devouring over the last, I don't know, a couple months, which, which we'll drop a link to later on as well. But I'm here to talk with Luke about rites of passage and particularly a program Luke has coming up, just about a month and a half or so that we'll be talking more about. But first off, Luke, tell our audience kind of what inspired you to start this and what kind of brought you here to this moment.

Luke Entrup: Yeah, well, first of all, thank you so much for having me on the show. It's really great to just be with you in this way. My good friend, Jason. Yeah, so the program is the father son connection experience, and it's a rite of passage for boys 10 to 14 and their dads or their father figures. And, you know, where this came from in me is, you know, just looking at my own relationship with my son, who's about to be 12. And it's this really interesting moment in one's development of individuation. And I can feel him kind of finding in his own way, him pulling back a bit and, you know, really wanting to kind of be his own person. And it's really, as a father, I can feel it. It's like, oh, no. My son is in some way kind of slipping away and really wanting that connection to be strong so that when he enters the teen years and he's, you know, in the that full experience, that I'm there for him, that we have a really good bond, that I can be, you know, just be a helping hand, be a guide, be someone that he turns to when things continue to get a little more intense as he enters his teenage years. And so, you know, that's, for me, that's kind of, I, I, I thought about, like, what does my son need right now? And I, frankly, I designed this experience for him and As I thought about it, I thought, wouldn't it be so much more powerful if he was around other men while he had this experience? And what if there was actually a small group, like a group of 12 or so boys his age and their dads, and we all got together and we created an experience of a rite of passage for them, and that's how this was born.

Jason Lange: I love that. Something I often work with a lot of the men I coach with around is just that that is such a great example of leadership of. I'm noticing something that I feel like I could use in my life, right? This experience for my son. And, oh, wait, there's not a whole lot out there. So I could either just kind of wait or I could actually step into. If I'm looking for that. It's pretty likely others are looking for that. And I think that's just so badass on your part to help fill that. And, you know, I've. The work I've done, I've done, you know, I've talked to probably 2,000 men over the phone over the last five, six years, and the need is enormous. You know, one way I could put that in terms of just the overall sense of. Even for those of us that are quote, unquote, men, like, what does this mean? What are we doing? I wasn't given any of this transition, this rite of passage kind of stuff, and it still shows up in my life. And it's a big reason I'm in men's work now. I feel like I'm still doing some of my rites of passage. And to see it emerging in what you're creating for boys at a developmentally appropriate age is, like, so exciting and really heartwarming is kind of the sense I get of. Because I think, you know, my experience of that's an age where if there's not a powerful, you know, healthy, masculine figure, I think to turn towards things can go pretty wrong for a lot of men in terms of withdrawing away from that. And it just seems so needed in our society right now to start creating these spaces. And what I also like about your program that I'd love to hear you speak to is how it's both. It's father and son. So it's from what you're creating is kind of an experience for both sides together. And I'd love for you to kind of talk about what you see emerging there and what you're creating.

Luke Entrup: Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, I will be the father of a teenager for the first time in a year, and that's its own rite of passage, right? It's its own new experience that I've not had before. And that's the case for most. Most parents when we get, you know. You know, we get to this point. So that's part of it. I think there's also this thing just about our culture that you mentioned, which is we don't actually do this so much anymore in a really intentional way. These. These kind of initiatory rites of passage where we're honoring different phases of life, but it's really deep and baked into who we are as a species. You know, like, I would just argue that we. We will find ways to have meaningful rites of passage. If they're not presented to us in an intentional way, we'll do it anyway. And. And we see this, you know, in all sorts of kind of maladaptive ways as well, where the need to fit in and feel part of a community or a tribe is part of who we are as a species and especially as men. And when we don't have that, we will find ways to. To make it happen. Whether it's through, you know, fraternity hazing or gang violence or unconsciously climbing the corporate ladder, we will. We will seek out ways to have. To feel part of something. And so what an intentional rite of passage can do is provide a kind of a healthy pathway of belonging, a healthy pathway of mentorship. And as fathers, I was blessed enough at a young age to have some of these rites of passage experiences at a pretty. You know, at a pretty. I had my first one at 22 years old, which was just remarkable. Super blessed to have that. But most dudes don't have that, right? And so what we have is. Is. Is a culture that's largely run by kind of uninitiated men. And my expectation is that the fathers that come to this experience will probably have not had a lot of their own rites of passage. So this will be their own experience around the elements of a hero's journey while they're. While they're with their boys.

Jason Lange: I love that just vision of write a passage for the boys and write a passage, just like you said, for a lot of the fathers, stepping even into a deeper version of themselves in a deeper container and context for fatherhood, of. It's one thing as a father, I think, to hold a boy, but then it becomes another thing, as it sounds like you'll be exploring to be a father, that has to start to hold a man, right? Like, in that transition of, like, how do I hold my son through These very different developmental milestones that he's now going to be going through. Right. Of which I imagine some of the big ones around that age. Right. Like sexuality, maturity, relationships, actually going out into the world and being self sufficient, like all that stuff starts to really come online at that age and. Yeah. What are some of the themes or topics you're going to be exploring throughout the weekend? Obviously you don't have to give away all the secret sauce, but.

Luke Entrup: Yeah, yeah, well, and maybe just one more point about the father's experience, which is, you know, the, when we, when we are around a group of, you know, preteen or teen boys, it will remind us of our own experience at that age. And sometimes that's a, that was a rather unpleasant time. I know for me that was some of my kind of most painful experiences happened around that age of 11, 12. Bullying and just the social kind of anxiety of that age. And so that gets lit up in us as fathers as we experience our children going through it. So it presents an opportunity to, to actually examine kind of that part of us that maybe has some unresolved healing to do. So that's just another important component. I think, you know, we can show up so much better for our children when we continue to look at what was happening for us at that stage and heal those kind of pains that we, that we carry. So, so.

Jason Lange: Oh man, you're.

Luke Entrup: Yeah, you're.

Jason Lange: You're in my body.

Luke Entrup: Yeah, yeah. Well, I've noticed it all along the way, right. Like I remember when he was three years old and having flashbacks, memories of my parents at about, you know, seeing my parents at about that age and you know, have had these experiences all the way up, you know, and, and I think, yeah, so I think it's a pretty common experience as parents to have these kind of memories flood back of when we were at that age. So the experience, the father son connection experience, this, it, it follows the arc of the hero's journey, which is a model. We use three steps in it. Right. Like Joseph Campbell really made this famous where it was. It's a separation or a descent. Right. So we'll, when we arrive there will be. We're going to not have cell phones. We're going to disconnect from the world. We're going to be out in nature and we'll spend a lot of time outdoors. It may be a bit uncomfortable, it's a bit rugged and that's to kind of shock in a, in a, in a way shock the system a bit out of the creature comforts. Of our tech connected world. Right. And then the second stage is the ordeal. So there's an opportunity to really face some part of ourselves. And even know in traditional societies and in pretty much all societies of old, we've lost these rituals over the last couple hundred years in the developed world. But you know, in traditional societies, this is like you got a spear, you go out and you kill a lion. You know, you have to face some big thing in these rites of passage. Right. And for our program, it's much more about facing some fear, some pain of the past, facing some internal deep demon or dragon and taking a good hard look at that and healing that. And then there's a reintegration period of returning home. So what does it mean now that you've had this experience and who are you now?

Jason Lange: Right.

Luke Entrup: And so we'll be doing some emotional healing and literacy work a lot of time outside of nature, ceremony and ritual, a lot of embodiment practices. At this age especially, it's so much about being in the body. So a lot of martial arts, wrestling, just really physical play. And then on the final day, we'll have a really intentional, facilitated conversation around sex, personal power, consent. The idea is like, at this age, we want, we want to cultivate the full expression of healthy masculinity in these boys. The full power of it, not push it aside. Let, let, let us feel all of our kind of primal force and at the same time harness that power and use it for good. So that's kind of how we'll close it.

Jason Lange: That sounds like an amazing weekend. I'm a little jealous. I can't go. I don't have a son yet. I really like what you shared there at the harnessing of the healthy masculine power feels so key. And, you know, something we've both gotten to explore in our work with mutual teachers and is that really the importance of. We get that and learn that right from being around other men who are in it.

Luke Entrup: Right.

Jason Lange: There's that transmission of like actually being in the energetic space of, oh, that's the difference between aggression and just clean boundaried anger.

Luke Entrup: Right.

Jason Lange: That so many of us never got examples of. But when we see it in another man, it's like, you know, all the mirror neurons kick in and there's like a download of oh, that's a possibility I didn't know about before. Right. I can be strong, I can be fierce, and I can be open and sensitive and aware. And the fact that you're going to be helping to lay that groundwork for boys at such a young age. I mean, what a greater gift to the world. I can't think of many at this point of like, what we really need more of. Yeah, yeah.

Luke Entrup: I mean, I feel that I, you know, the question I just keep asking myself is, how do we raise good men? When we look at the world, there's a lot of challenges about, you know, the modern day man and masculinity and, and you know, in the culture, when the word masculinity is mentioned, it's probably most often associated with the word toxic. Right. And I think that's just, that's a, That's a shame that it doesn't need to be that way. And I think the world not only is asking for, but needs healthy, powerful, masculine men and, and that, you know, it's. It's all the virtues and values of that full expression of power are needed. There's a lot of really wonderful things in that. So. And I think that, that, that modeling can happen at an early age, you know, so that's partly what we were hoping to do here.

Jason Lange: Yeah. And I would love for you to speak to the importance of. Right. You're not doing this in a hotel room. Right. Where the experience is happening, I think is a integral part of what you're offering. And just the immersion in the elements in nature. Like, how do you see that supporting the container you're creating and really being able to take this work to a deeper level?

Luke Entrup: Yeah. So it's. The first one we're doing is kind of on the top of Cobb Mountain in Northern California in Lake county, about two hours north of San Francisco. And it's on an exquisitely beautiful property that's in. It's really disconnected from a lot of the. It's not off the grid, but it's. It's pretty far out there. Self service is spotty and it's just a beautiful, beautiful forest. Right. And there's something really special that happens when we allow ourselves to get quiet enough in nature and to call and to slow down enough where the earth comes alive for us and around us. And so, you know, we start to interact with the creatures of the forest or the plants or the birds, and they have all sorts of messages for us. The other thing that happens, I mean, there's obviously a massive amount of research that shows what being in nature does to regulate the nervous system. And when a boy has a massive amount of hormones flooding through his system or they're just starting to come online, One of the most important things I think we can teach is Nervous system regulation and downregulation. So just being outside in nature allows that to happen. There's gonna be optional cold plunges for those that wanna work with discomfort. And, you know, it's. There's a cool mountain stream that. That rolls through there. Part of what we. We'd like to do is send the boys out with their f. Father figures to just walk on the land together. You know, Robert Bly used to talk about the feminine and. And maybe women, but we could probably just say the feminine feel most at home sitting in a circle. And the masculine feels most at home walking side by side in nature.

Jason Lange: Right.

Luke Entrup: And there's something very ancient about a father and a son walking through the woods together. Maybe with some words, maybe with not. Not maybe not. And just feeling each other's presence, being in harmony with the world around them. And maybe there's a quest to bring back some sort of gift from the forest. Maybe there's an invitation to have a deeper conversation that's needed to happen for a while. Or maybe there's an invitation to ask each other questions about what you're needing from each other. But the forest can really hold that in a way that nothing else can. And there's so much isolation and loneliness, especially coming out of the pandemic in our culture. And, you know, even the. You know, as I've. As I've started to talk about this program, more and more, so many fathers and mothers come to me sharing how isolated their. Their son feels. And I think we're in a really important moment culturally where we need to start stitching people back to a sense of belonging. And, you know, since I was a very young boy, the place I always felt I belonged was in the forest, you know, and I just think that, you know, this being connected to the earth and feeling not as if we're necessarily walking on the earth, but we are part of the earth is the deepest sense of belonging that we can offer another human. And so that's part of just what we want to invite people into, for both the fathers and the sons to just have some private walks in the forest together.

Jason Lange: Oh, that sounds so nourishing. And it really strikes me, I don't know if it was you or who in one of my many men's groups I'm in, but they were talking about parenting, and they were like, yeah, the place kind of related to what you're sharing. The place I always get the most, like, shares out of my son is in my car because we're side by side and I'm just connecting that to. It's actually the side by side. Right. That you're then replicating, I think at an even deeper level out in the forest because it frees something up, you know, certainly in my experience, in just that timeless sense of being in the forest with the father figure, with nothing else, you know, there's nothing else hanging over the space of just we're here together exploring. Sounds like it would be so empowering to so many kids and fathers coming out of, you know, the pandemic in so many ways was like an amped up tech time.

Luke Entrup: Right.

Jason Lange: Like, so much like technology got thrown into overdrive. I feel like in terms of connection, in creating a space to kind of slow that down and bring it back to the earth. I can only imagine how. How needed that is. You know, I live in the middle of L. A and it always blows me away when I hear stories about, you know, kids that were born here and have never even been to the beach and it's, you know, 15 miles away, let alone actually out right where you're kind of in the wild, so to speak. And how nourishing and just absolutely healing that has certainly been for me. So I can only imagine what a container that's going to be for this, this, this deep, deep work.

Luke Entrup: Yeah. The, you know, the wonderful thing is like, you don't. I mean, of course anybody that wants to come to our event, please do, but this is a thing that anybody can do. Right. And I just noticed for my own relationship with my son and my daughter, but if I don't get out at least once a month for a very long hike with them, it. Things feel a little off. It's kind of our place where we reset. And so it's just a really. It's just a wonderful way to kind of just shed a lot of emotional and kind of energetic baggage that. That accumulates naturally in this culture. The other thing I'll say is there are beautiful places everywhere, including in the city. Right. We always have. If it's not a park, we have, you know, a little green space. If it's not a green space, we maybe have some water. If it's not water, we always have the sky. And, you know, this feeling of cultivating a connection to the earth is. Is for me one of the most nourishing things that I have. And. And you know, I think something that can only help. Help us.

Jason Lange: Yeah. And I would love for you to speak to, you know, obviously every. Everyone's journey is going to be unique to them, but in your Perfect world. What does a son come out of this having experienced, and what does a father come out of this experience with? What are they leaving this with that they can bring back into their lives and their connection with each other.

Luke Entrup: Yeah. So my hope is, first and foremost, that they bring back a connection with each other. There is in any parental relationship, there is. We get into ruts and loops and things get kind of concretized and it's just. It's just natural. That's being human. Right. So it's helpful to have experiences that shake us out of that, that open up some new pathways about how we're relating. And my hope is that's what this does more than anything else for both father and son is an experience that maybe it's a little jarring, doesn't need it doesn't mean it's like super, super intense, but a little bit like, whoa, this isn't what we normally do. Dad's phone's away, son's phone's away. And there's a really focused on the relationship between the two. For the boys, I hope they come out with an experience of touching some feelings and emotions and some personal power in their body and knowing how to do that in a way that feels like both enlivening and safe, where they're safe for themselves and safe for others. An experience of working with boundaries around physical proximity and touch. An experience of being part of a community in a group. Right. This is a thing. There's a couple of different transition points around rites of passage. Right. That the people that really have studied this deeply, they talk about there being two for boys. The first is around this age of like 10 to 13ish, where they're in. And for this stage, it's all about belonging. It's about being part of a community. It's about being welcomed by older men into a sense of belonging. So we see this with sports teams and, you know, music bands, and there's a sense of like, I'm part of something. And they. And while also individuating from my parents. Right. There's a second rite of passage around 16 to 18. And this is the deeper one, which is about starting to. This is actually the passage into manhood. Right. This is the passage of like, I am now a man. This is where I start to put a stake in the ground, you know, stake my claim in the world. And this is very much often about a little bit of an ego deconstruction. The. The deeper soul work can happen there. So at the earlier stage, the one we're working at. This is about divine. Developing a healthy sense of self. Right. And so we want to really have the boys walk away with a belief in themselves and who they are in the world, a sense of belonging, and just a bit of a healthy confidence boost around their own connection to their bodies, their emotions, their father. And then, of course, for the fathers, we want them to feel connected to the boys and give them some tools about how to relate to their sons and help their sons harness their own power and to really just be in a community of other fathers and how powerful that can be about that shared experience and so much wisdom about how to be a better father can happen through that, through that community.

Jason Lange: Oh, I love, love, love. I love that. You know, I only have a daughter right now, but my wife, she's pretty on top of things, so she's. She's gone off on this track recently or already reading into, like, how are we going to handle social media and, like, what it's doing. But one thing that really struck me in one of the books she was reading was about how one of the things they found that can insulate kids from, like, the. The bad effects of social media and peer pressure and all that is that deep connection with the parental figure where they're actually more concerned with kind of getting the respect of their parents. In an odd way, it, like, creates a bit of a shield out in the world where they, they have research, the kids are more resilient and more able to, like, say no and yes to what's actually appropriate for them. And if they don't get that, then all of that energy goes to the peer group.

Luke Entrup: Right.

Jason Lange: All of their approval energy goes to. I got to get it from my peers. And that's where things can go, you know, I think pretty wrong sometimes when you don't have that. So the idea of these boys getting immersed with both their fathers and then this larger container of like, oh, yeah, this is, this is where I want to be approved. This is where I want to feel belonging in that, like, making them more resilient for the world is. I just, I get chills just thinking about, like, wow, what would it be like, you know, to have this deluge of. Of young, young boys becoming men who, who are plugged in at this deeper level.

Luke Entrup: Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, look, I. It's really. It's hard to be a parent sometimes. Right. The, you know, I've. I've always kind of felt like there's a big gap between the parent. I thought I was going to be and the parent I actually am. And I think that's true for most parents. Right. We come in with all of these ideas and ideals and there's a gap. And one of the things I constantly struggle with is the amount of attention I can give to my children. It in some ways never feels like enough, or I never can give them as much as they maybe need or I think they need. And, you know, screens are part of that, you know, and I think it's. It's the case for a lot of us where being able to put the phones down for an hour or 20 minutes or a weekend with our kid is massively helpful for what you're. What you're describing around a really meaningful connection with our kids. So sometimes we just need, you know, experiences where that just happens. Right. And where we kind of force ourselves into that. Um, but, you know, it's something I'm constantly, as a father, I'm constantly working and in some ways struggling with.

Jason Lange: Ditto here. And the other thing I love is in terms of what you spoke to of the father's experience. Like, I have talked with, you know, guys I've worked with and groups or clients, and there is this like, knowing they want a stronger connection with their son. Right. But oftentimes, like a. Where do I start? Like, I don't know how to do this because I never experienced it. So the idea of them having a place to go to get some tools and a little bit of framework and experience in the actual weekend of not, just, you know, hearing about it, but having to being able to create some of these and then having, you know, a system to bring back of some ideas and some community around them, of particularly other fathers, I think is just going to be such a massive game changer for this chunk of guys who I know who have the desire but then don't know where to start. And it just sounds like this is a pretty incredible place to start, both in terms of the weekend and then what it's going to allow you to bring back to that relationship with your son and the community you can potentially create alongside that. I can only imagine going in and having these experiences and then being surrounded by other fathers and sons doing the same. You know, certainly something I know from my men's work is there's just something bonding about going through intense experiences together. Right. You know, like, that's part of. I think what brings the masculine together is that was not normal. Maybe it was a little uncomfortable and we got through it. Now we're best buds forever. You know, there's just like an instant camaraderie there and I can only imagine what's going to happen in that container of both boys and fathers.

Luke Entrup: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. My hope is that's exactly what happens is that we, you know, we shake things up enough where there's really deep drop ins and that the fathers make their own connections. We're going to offer some follow on support optional that people that want to, the, the fathers that want to keep meeting and keep going. We'll do a kind of a virtual follow on group. And yeah, I think it's gonna be, it's gonna be a bit intense, which is, which is good. I was, I was reading there's this new study, or not so new. It's a study just ended that it was an 85 year study around happiness. Have you seen this?

Jason Lange: I don't think so.

Luke Entrup: Yeah, a new book dropped recently and I was listening to an interview with this guy, the, the kind of lead researcher and he said, you know, tooth two notable things about the study. The biggest indicator of happiness is the quality of our relationships. Right. So when we looked at, they looked at three generations over 85 years, the study was out of Harvard and they did, you know, biometric screening, they did observations, they did just a, it was a massive, massive study of a couple thousand people over 80, 85 years, looked at health outcomes. And the biggest indicator for happiness is the quality of the relationships. And that could be a spouse, a partner, it could be a parent, child, it could be a friend. But the quality of our relationships indicates the level of our happiness. Right. And which I just, you know, like it's so clear that this is, this is just so elemental to who we are as a species to have really good, meaningful, deep relationships. Right. The other thing that I found really interesting about that study was the people that faced challenges, something difficult, had a higher level of fulfillment and happiness. So people that like raised children, started a business, had some sort of very intense experience. Their level of fulfillment was greater. It's actually in the struggle and how we, we come together during a struggle, during an ordeal that helps shape the, you know, our own level of fulfillment as humans. Which I also found to be very interesting.

Jason Lange: Yeah, definitely. And it strikes me as, you know, there's maybe a flavor of that in men's work that I think is so powerful of. You know, what I'd say is like just knowing what we're made of, right. Which no one else can give you as a man. That feeling of like, oh, I went through that. I know what's possible. I know how I show up in those situations, and certainly the type of confidence that's bred in me going through difficult experiences, doing difficult weekends of men's work. There's something like, oh, I know who I am. I know what I'm capable of. That seems so tied to that. And I can really imagine how powerful that would have been. To even have a sprinkling of some of that at that young age in a container with my father would be like, wow, it's kind of blown my mind thinking about how differently I may have moved through the world, as it took me decades to find some of this stuff on my own. That sense inside of me when I didn't have that guidance in a larger container and, and from a connection with my father or other similar. Like on that similar path.

Luke Entrup: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I. This is where I was super blessed myself. So my dad actually invited me to my first men's group when I was 22 years old, and I did a kind of a rites of passage initiatory experience at 22. And I was surrounded by 80 other just super amazing wise guys and, and just. It was highly formative for me. My 20s, I was surrounded by a bunch of men with living lives of passion and purpose. And. And that really was so incredibly formative to me and in such a, you know, an amazing way. And I think it's, you know, I'm imagining if we play the tape forward a hundred years from now, it's only been about 200 years since some of this was kind of know. Was forgotten. And if we play this tape forward a hundred years, you know, my dream is that this is back and this is how we raise men. That this. It's, it's. It's very possible to do this. And I don't think it will take that long. It'll take just a few generations.

Jason Lange: And very necessary, I think. Right. It's. It's not even a. Like, I think, oh, it'd be nice to have this. But, like, I know this is really needed right now because there are so many men suffering. And it does start so much at that age. Right. A lot of the work I do with men, there's always a layer. There's always a layer they're repairing or healing from that. From that age in particular, because there was no one guiding her. So no one walking us through these rites of passage, like you said, helping us just be on that appropriate pathway of development of. Right. Like transitioning. Like, there's not, you know, in the endless Stream of technology we're in right now. There's not a lot of space for transitions. Right. It's just constant deluge of more information, more information. Stay on the thing, stay on the thing. And you know, I'm dealing with that as a 42 year old. I can only imagine what it's like to be raised in that from the get go of. Right. Everyone around, you got phones, kids around from an early age, all that social media pressure coming in and just this, you know, I just get this real sense of this like beautiful bubble of just this weekend's going to create for fathers and sons to just be reminded that something else exists. And that dropping into that place is going to make going back out into the world so much easier. So much easier.

Luke Entrup: Yeah, yeah. I mean this is men's work, right. Like we have to in Menswork. We often will step out for a bit, step out for a weekend, step out for a night, step out for a month. And sometimes there's an element of physical challenge. Oftentimes this requires courage to look at our own heart and mind and our feelings and our internal landscape. And for those that have done that, which, you know, it's probably, there's probably fewer that have, there's a level of courage that's required in examining the hurts of the past, examining our fears and our doubts, examining our own self judgment, examining our traumas. There's a level of courage that is required in doing that. And when we've done that, that often just carries on into our life. Where we live a more courageous life, we live with less kind of unconscious fear where there's less things in our unconscious, in our conscious mind and our shadow that that were, that we're kind of battling to keep down. And so we, we come out with so much more life force energy, so much more vitality, a clarity of purpose. And that's, you know, I think that's just fundamental to what men's work is. Whether it's with a 10 year old boy and his dad or some 40 year olds like you and I, 40 somethings, or you know, the work of an elder in his 80s. This is, you know, this is men's work.

Jason Lange: That was so beautifully put. And one thing I like to ask all my guests because I'm pretty much just having men on at this point, specifically around men's work. You know, one of the most powerful things I see emerging and that certainly I'm dedicated to are men's groups. And one thing, you know, I've had the experience of Sitting in group with you. And I would just love for you to share about, you know, in what ways has being in a men's group impacted your life?

Luke Entrup: I mean, in all the ways, truly all the ways. Probably the biggest way, I would say, is to have, especially at an earlier age, but just the role modeling of what it means to be a powerful, badass man on mission with a clear purpose and fully expressed in one's power to see so many different manifestations of that and to sit closely with these men and be able to ask questions about how they live their lives and to just gain insight about how they think and how they run emotions through their body and how they show up for the people in their life. It's. For me it's always been the kind of role modeling and mentoring. Even in my mid-40s now, you know, it was particularly the case in my early twenties and, and even into my thirties. Just I felt like I was raised by a tribe of badass dudes, you know, and that's probably the biggest thing at this point in my life. It's a little bit more about excavating the deeper shadows and excavating the deeper, more pervasive ways that I keep myself down or beat myself up or unconsciously hurt people. Where brothers like yourself that are very perceptive and very deep and who I trust can call me out and call me in in a way that nobody else can, that they know me so well and they seen me enough to know, you know, where my own shame holds me back or where I'm, you know, maybe out of integrity. That's, that's just the, like at this point in my life, it's such a, such a gift.

Jason Lange: I love that it's been something I've been thinking about a lot on my own journey of like. It's a very unique quality of masculine love that, that like calling in, calling forth of when there is some shadow there, when we are self limiting ourselves in another man. Right. Speaks to it in an open hearted way to us. And it's like, oh, oh, like, you know, there's always a little bit of. But there's also like fuck, this guy cares. He sees me, right? And it's always blown me away how much that actually feels like love. Like, oh, it's nice, nice to feel that and feel blessed to have had that because you know, so many men I think don't quite have it in that way. And there is a more of like stumbling through the world or just, you know, more of a traditional kind of tearing each other down, but that building each other up is such a powerful thing.

Luke Entrup: Yeah. And so, and I've experienced that with you in, in several ways. So I thank you. Thank you for that and, and vice versa, man.

Jason Lange: I'm still, still, still feeling the reverberations of some of our times together. And I would love for you to drop specifics here about when the Father Son Connection Weekend, this first one is and how guys can sign up or get more information.

Luke Entrup: Yeah, sure. Just head over to the website fathersonconnection.com It's April 14th through 16th on Cobb Mountain in California. And yeah, you can, you can find out more on the website there. And if you have any questions, there's a, you can send me a message over there. And yeah, we've got a few slots left. We're, we're, we're filling it up, but we do have just a few slots left.

Jason Lange: So I would suggest not waiting. Go check it out now. And it's going to fill up. It's definitely going to fill up. So if you're feeling that call, now's the time. And I can't recommend working with Luke enough. He is just a light and a force of nature. And it's such an honor to have you here, man, and to see you, you know, really bringing this work into the world when it was just an idea and a vision to be with you in that journey. And no, it's happening and here it comes is so inspiring again. One of the reasons I love being in this world and being in this work is when you create something, it inspires me to like, oh, yeah, it's time to get on, drive things forward in my own right. So I cannot wait to see how this continues to unfold. I feel like this is going to fill up fast and you're probably going to have a lot of demand coming your way as the word gets out.

Luke Entrup: Yeah, it's happening. We've also got several people asking to bring it to their community, which we have some options for that. So if people think they might want to have us there, we just need about six father son duos. We'll fill the other six. And a good retreat center so you can reach out with that. And if you want to hear, on my podcast, I did an interview with an expert and an author around Rites of Passage. His name is Frederick Mar Marks. He's a filmmaker, just a magnificent storyteller. I did an interview with him on my podcast, Crazy Wisdom. So if you're interested in this topic, folks might, might give that one a listen. Yeah, it's.

Jason Lange: It's. It's really powerful. And Luke's podcast is amazing, so definitely check it out.

Luke Entrup: Thank you.

Jason Lange: I'll drop the information in the show notes.

Luke Entrup: All right.

Jason Lange: Well, it's been a real honor having you here, brother, and can't wait for more.

Luke Entrup: Thank you, my friend.

Jason Lange: If you're interested in working with me around dating relationships or your masculine presence in the world, just go to Evolutionary Men. Apply.