179: Why’s it so hard for me to approach my wife/partner for sex? | Dear Men

Jason Lange: I've even had guys who, you know, it's pretty heartbreaking that their wife's like, well, you know, I don't want that, so go ahead and get those needs met elsewhere. And you would think that's every guy's fantasy. And some guys, sure, but a lot of men, it's not. They don't want to just have a thing on the side. They want to be emotionally connected.

Melanie Curtin: Well, that. Let's. Let's pause there because I think that's important to kind of highlight the contrast. Because what I heard was in the first relationship, there was no problem in the first four months. And in the second, really show the first six months, you know, you were initiating, and it sounds like it was receptive. And so can you paint a little picture of what that phase was like before there was this kind of cliff, I guess you could call it?

Jason Lange: Yeah, I've thought a lot about that. And I think on one level, it relates to a lot of what we've talked about before and something we work with a lot of our clients around, which is polarity and this idea of, you know, creating sexual tension and attraction between the masculine and the feminine. And there's a way that polarity, I think, actually shows up a lot in early relationships because of a couple things. There's a. Just our hormones support it. Right. There's nothing quite like the flood we get when we first meet someone and we open and we're connecting with them and we're having sexual experiences with them, oftentimes, you know, many times a week. And everything's new, everything's novel. There's a lot of just biochemical energy behind that. And something I've, particularly since getting married, come to realize, too, is there's a lot more. It's easy to have a lot more intention at that stage. Meaning right early on, for me, in the case of all those relationships, when we were getting together, it was because we were on dates, we were dating each other. And the purpose of the date was to be in relational presence with each other. That's what we would do when we would get together and be with each other. It was to be with each other. There's something that's exciting about the early form of dating with the two girlfriends. As we started spending a lot more time with each other. There's like more of a fuzziness. Sometimes I'm working, sometimes she's working. Sometimes we're just lazing around, watching tv, sometimes we're just hanging out in friends. It's not quite the same charged space that often early relationships. Relationships have where we're getting together to be with each other. Right. Which I think in itself oftentimes can mean sex where, you know, getting together to hang out, to be with each other and to have sex.

Melanie Curtin: Yeah. Even when you're. Because at the very beginning, there's also the anticipation of, are we gonna. Are we not gonna. There's a lot of. There's more uncertainty. And uncertainty almost always leads to polarity because those hormones, like you say, get kicked up of, how do I look? Does he like me? Does she think I'm worthy? You know, it's like there's a lot of energy in uncertainty and attraction. And before you're committed, there's also the question of, where's this going? What's going to happen? And there's. There's a lot of energy there. There's a lot of energy in anticipation and the questioning. It can also be exhausting. Obviously, it's not always fun, but there does tend to be a lot of energy. And where there's a lot of energy, there tends to be a lot of potential for attraction. Right. The sparks are often around uncertainty. And that's, I think, a part of why when there's conflict, there's also a lot of. There can be a lot of sparks, which is partly why makeup sex is so hot. Because there's just a lot of energy in the uncertainty or the anticipation around the buildup of tension. Even if that tension isn't good tension, there's just a lot of energy there. And that, you know, that stage, like you, you said with all of those, those new feelings. In the poly world, there's a term for it called new relationship energy, which is shorthand is nre. So people that are in long term poly relationships will watch their partner go through NRE and kind of smile to themselves. Oh, I remember that phase. Or it's a. It's a known thing that happens, right. NRE is a phase. It doesn't last forever. And I think people can also sometimes, we'll call it limerence, which is basically that crush phase, right. Of like, oh, I have a crush, what's going to happen? And the intentionality you just said reminded me of the ritual of going on a date. The ritual of, you know, I'm going to shave my legs or I'm going to wear a certain cologne. I'm going to a certain way. I'm going to, you know, there's. There's intentionality, not just on the date, but before the date. There's a lot of. Again, there's a lot of energy there of I'm preparing my body, right. I'm preparing myself to see this person that I like. And so there's energy there. And that is not the same as we've been hanging out at the house all day. Hey, do you think we should get takeout tonight? Sure. Right. One person's on their laptop. You're in the same clothes. There's not that we are going to a place to be together. You know, it's like, even if it's like, come over. I'll cook for you as a date, it's still. You're still deciding what you're going to wear. You know, there's a lot of energy there around the ritual of it. So I like what you said of noticing the difference between the intentionality piece versus not. When you said it started to get fuzzy in your relationships, when it started to get more serious and you started to get closer and you started to get more committed, there was. There was a piece there that happened of that intentionality might have declined.

Jason Lange: Yeah, I think that's two key components. You've underlined intentionality and energy. So at first, there's a lot of energy, a lot of novelty. There's a lot of newness, right? Have we had sex like this? Have we had sex there? Have we, you know, this time of day, that time of day, there's all of that to discover with each other. And then there's the intention behind it of like, well, we're not together yet. I don't know where this is going to go. So, you know, really putting in the effort to create special experiences for her and be really present for her and her. Her for me and whatnot. And then that starts, you know, for me, that would shift as we kind of got into a more committed place, and in some ways, things would relax. And that's, for me, actually where I noticed. So this moment of the shift of. Away from it just being kind of easy, fluid, natural. As we kind of got committed, my kind of normal attachment baggage came up. That's. That's what I, you know, in retrospect, I can see now is it's like as we, like, got into an actual, real relationship together, and there was emotionality, emotional connection and like, you know, a future emerging. Then that's when Kind of like my. Everything I learned about relationship from my family started. Started showing up, which in the family I was raised in was just two people kind of hanging out in the same house. That was basically it. Like, no ritual, no dates, no polarity, no energy. And that is a muscle that lives in me, that my body, if I'm not vigilant, wants to default back to. Something I've come to really, really realize throughout. Throughout my marriage. And, you know, early after we got married, like, you know, it got to a point where my wife was frustrated. She's like, where's our sex life? Like, I miss you coming towards me. And that was, like, hard feedback for me to hear. But she wasn't wrong. You know, she just wasn't. Wasn't wrong. And I think that's a place that, for me, it was kind of. It. As we got more intimate and connected and secure with each other, you know, this is the paradox of relationship. As we got more secure, more of the insecurities come up in a weird way. There's not, like the. All that energy and intention that can kind of blast through them in early relationships. So, you know, for me, there was an experience of like, oh, you know, my sexuality is actually too much. Because I did have some experiences where the energy I was bringing towards the sex wasn't quite where she was at. And then. So part of me would shut down after I would, you know, she would kind of shut down a little bit. And then I started to internalize that, and then it kind of ate in on itself, so to speak. And then there was like, well, I don't want to initiate that. And, you know, there's a. One way I can sum this up in terms of that. What I said about, like, the muscle I'm aware of and my body default. Wants to default to is actually a type of relational laziness where it's like, I don't want to put in the time to connect and, like, really be present and be curious and kind of nurturing my partner and slowly building up that energy and flirting like you would do on a date. You know, it's pretty rare we just get together and have sex right away sometimes. But initially it was more like after the date, right? Which is actually after the connection. And that. Yet then I would want to have. The times I would initiate it kind of be like we've been disconnected all day, and then I kind of roll over and touch her in bed, and then she's just not feeling it, and then I feel hurt. And then that was Kind of our cycle. And so becoming aware of there's a way I can get relationally lazy. Right. And I'm not actually putting in the time to warm up my partner, my wife's nervous system to act. And when she's warm, she loves it. Right. She's like all about it. When I've kind of taken the time to create an experience or taken the time to get connected, but without that, it's, it's like this way that I think I've definitely seen in some of our guys of like, it's like the zero to 60 thing of like, well, I haven't been putting in the time, but I want sex now. And that can often be hard for a lot of feminine partners when there's just not that build up.

Melanie Curtin: Which might sound like, all you want is sex. You just want sex all the time. There must be something wrong with you. I don't know why you want sex all the time.

Jason Lange: Yeah.

Melanie Curtin: Is that. Am I close?

Jason Lange: That's. That's exactly what we've heard from guys, which even with, you know, the laziness piece I was talking about, like, the relational laziness that I think a lot of guys can, you know, can fall into a trap of. There is this other thing of, like, you know, we all have actual sexual needs in relationship, and it. As we often talk to our guys about, like, it's one of the primary agreements in getting into a monogamous relationship in particular is I'm agreeing not to have sex with other people. I'm agreeing to have my sexual needs met by you.

Melanie Curtin: And so it sounds like your wife didn't say those things. She would not say, God, you just want sex. So exhausting. I don't. Why are you always, like, why do you always need this? Why is this such an obsession? She never said that. What you. What you mentioned was more like, how the approach was or what had happened. And so what did that actually sound like when she gave you that feedback? Like, what did she. Did she say, I'm not really feeling open to this? Or how did that work?

Melanie Curtin: And I'm curious, too, because I think it was really brave of Violet to bring up, hey, I miss you coming towards me. I really want a healthy sex life. Like, I miss being feeling pursued or wanted or I really want that here. It was pretty brave of her to share that with you. And how did that conversation go? And what did you. You know, how did it. Did that change things? Was it. Did it sort of wake you up to, oh, this is the thing I need to pay attention to? Like, how did that actual exchange change things?

Jason Lange: Yeah, I mean, it definitely woke me up a little bit in terms of, you know, autopilot's not going to work here. And, wow, she really wants this, too. And so there was, like, a You know, often our dynamic is when she, you know, reveals the pain she's in or the heart she's in, it's easier for me to come more present and reconnect and like, oh, okay, yeah, you're right. No, totally. Boom, here I am. And so there was a bit of that for sure. But I'd also say, you know, part of what really made me realize it was some deeper attachment stuff is even knowing that it would still show up in my nervous system. It would still be a challenge. Even though we've had the discussion and the desire is there and the permission is there, there's still a natural impulse. And that was probably the most eye opening thing to me, that even after the discussion, this is really something I have to be committed to working on and bringing energy and attention to in our relationship. In that, truth be told, I kind of probably always will. It's just part of my, you know, my wiring as a human being.

Melanie Curtin: And can you speak a little bit like, let's say, you know, you can hear that she's showering and you're like, oh, it'd be really hot. Shower with her. Like you're feeling the desire. I guess I'm curious. Was it like you would feel the desire and then thoughts would come in? Well, what if she doesn't want to? Maybe she'll feel obligated if I go in there, like, what is the. Is it you do feel the desire and then there's a part of you that's talking yourself out of it? Or what does that actually feel like? That moment?

Jason Lange: Yeah, it's either a dampening of like, oh, it's not the right time, or we don't have time, or just excuses that come up probably more than anything else. Or. Yeah, it's. It's. I'm trying to exactly name what that would be for me. Um, you know, there's like a second layer I can definitely notice of sometimes noticing that come up and doing a temperature check and being like. And I haven't put in the time. There's like. And then that almost creates like a little bit of shame. And then the system kind of freezes for me of like, I haven't been very present for her. I haven't really been connecting with her. And I think that's probably my biggest speed bump versus, like, when I know I've kind of put some energy in. Like, it's just so much easier later on to act on that. And, you know, it's something I'm definitely getting better at overall. Like, the Trend has certainly been in the right direction of just. Which sometimes includes, like, coming in and like, hey, I'm really horny. Let's have sex. You know, sometimes it is that basic, and she's totally receptive to that. Other times it is like, I got to create an experience for us to drop in with each other and actually just become humans with each other again and not just parents or cohabitors and sometimes co workers.

Melanie Curtin: Yeah, it's. You know what's interesting about the actual space conversation is one thing I noticed when you two got married. Was I really? One thing I admired about your relationship was you regularly went away for a day or two. Like, the two of you took a lot of trips. Not constant, but it was pretty regular. You'd take the dog and you'd go somewhere, and I remember wondering, which I've never asked. You'd be interesting to know. Was that like, you were noticing, hey, we haven't connected in a while. I'm going to take the lead here and get us into a different state space where we can. Where it's special. Right. Because there is something. There's something special about getting out of the house. There is. And so was that part of your sort of. I don't want to call it a strategy, but was that something that you were leading in terms of wanting to create space for the two of you as a couple once you were, you know, married in relationship?

Jason Lange: Yeah, I think part of me intuitively knows that's. That's actually easier for me because then the intentionality, the energy, like the novelty kind of all comes back online.

Melanie Curtin: What do you mean that's easier for you? It's easier to initiate on a trip or what?

Jason Lange: Like, yeah, there's a way that that's like, more my natural space than the homebody energy, which does bring up more of, like, my family history and my nervous system. But there's something about just being out on an adventure that in, like, following my, you know, my passion or interest or wanting to create an experience for her that just generates a lot of that naturally, makes it easier to step into that kind of polarized space. But, yeah, totally. You know, our relationship early on was heavy on, like, very intentional festivals and spiritual experiences and different things that, like, did give us a lot of that and that are, again, a shared value for us that we want to, like, have fun and explore the world and, you know, make the most of it. So that. That's always been a thing I love to do, you know, I love to bring to our relationship. And it does just radically change things to just get out of our own environment? Sometimes.

Melanie Curtin: And was that something that you would drive sometimes when you were sort of reflecting on, like, hey, we haven't been connecting a lot, or it's been a while since we had sex. Hey, babe, I'd love to take us away this weekend. Does your schedule accommodate that? Was that something that you kind of drove and she. Because it was even deep into your relationship, that's what I remember was you would go away occasionally for the weekend and it seemed really peaceful.

Jason Lange: Yeah, I think it's just one of those things we really love doing. So oftentimes it would be motivated by, she's just finished a big project or I've just finished a big project, or there's a band or music we want to go to. So, you know, this is where part of what we teach our guys is as a guy, you just got to be tuned into, like, what do you like doing? And then I would notice things like, hey, I want to go see Earth Harp at the sushi joint, like, Thursday. Like, we're going to do a thing, you know, and then that creates a whole beautiful night out that I get to bring her along to. But when I'm not putting in the time to stay connected to the things I care about, it becomes. It does become harder to create those special events and special experiences. And, you know, there's certain places she loves to travel and things we love to do. So oftentimes it'll be feeling into that of like, oh, yeah, cool, Airbnb, where we can bring our dog and she can run around and we can just totally unplug. And then it's super fun to, like, go and find some places and then show her some and then kind of create the experience out of that.

Melanie Curtin: Yeah. So I think as we start to wrap up here, I'm wondering if there is a man that's sort of in this circumstance that you're describing of. Yeah. You know, I feel like I have been maybe a little bit relationally lazy and I haven't really been putting in the time. And, you know, how does that man kind of get started? Or what are some steps he can take? And then I have a follow up.

Melanie Curtin: And you're talking about sexually, like sexual.

Jason Lange: Yeah, right. Like. Right. I think, I think you've had people on to talk about the Jaya's sexual. What are they? Sexual archetypes.

Melanie Curtin: Blueprints.

Melanie Curtin: Yeah, I love that. It does feel a lot like that. Getting right with that drive, getting right with that power. You know, I'm a big advocate, and I'm constantly telling our men that your. Your sex drive is sacred. It's. It's part of who you are. And it's actually. Yeah, it's your chi, it's your energy, it's your life force. It's your drive, it's your second chakra. Right. It's your. It's your sacred schlong. You know, it's like that energy is part of what's so attractive about men and so desirable about them. And I think, yeah, it's been shamed in so many ways by so many different people and for so long. For some of our guys, I think it can feel like a trap, but we've seen multiple men get out of that trap. You don't have to stay in a limbo. If you're in a limbo, you don't have to stay there. There are options. Before we wrap up, we want to ask you. You know, I think it could be easy to kind of interpret this conversation as it's always on the man to initiate sex in a hetero relationship. And I'm just wondering, can you speak a little bit to. What is the role of a woman? You know, it's. It. Because I think that's. I don't think that's the case. And I could see how that. That could be how it sounds here. So can you touch on that?

Jason Lange: Most men I know love it when their partner initiates. Like it is one of the great joys and pleasures to be, like, seduced, so to speak, and want that more from their partner. And I do think there's a time in place for that. I think what I would say the role is is not that the masculine whoever's holding that in the relationship always has to be the one initiating, but it's almost like we have to be the ones that are. Keep bringing the energy into the space. That's kind of it. Like, it doesn't mean we have to actually physically initiate, but we have to be the ones that let her know she looks cute or, you know, like that just kind of keeps. Keeps that bucket full of some life force. And some energy. And then she'll often step into, initiating through, through from that place. If, like, you know, it's just little flirting, little looks, little touches, I think. But that doesn't mean we have to fully initiate each time. It's just that we have to know, like, we welcome that and we want that. It's. It's the sharing of the desire, I think, is the most important piece that.

Melanie Curtin: Right. I want.

Jason Lange: Yeah. The more we can freely do that with a man is like, I. I want you. You're so hot. I want you. But, like, um, doesn't mean, like, I'm trying to have sex with you right now.

Melanie Curtin: Yeah.

Jason Lange: It doesn't always have to be that. It just has to be the expression of, like, I still want you, baby. You're so hot. I love you.

Melanie Curtin: And it could be during the day, you know.

Jason Lange: Yes. And if you're dropping that throughout the.

Melanie Curtin: Day, your ass looks great in those jeans. It doesn't mean we're gonna have sex right now. It's just, wow, shit. Okay. I see you. And that's it. That's just a moment during the day.

Jason Lange: Yes. And then that's the sweet spot. You know what I would say if we're kind of keeping that energy alive, she will initiate more, in my experience, and most women will. Yeah, it's just like the stage is set, so to speak. And oftentimes women won't initiate because they're not feeling connected or desired.

Melanie Curtin: Right.

Jason Lange: That's mostly what it often is.

Jason Lange: Yeah. And this reminds me of, you know, one last thing I think I heard that I really like that I want to share here comes from the teacher of my teacher. So this is David Data, who's created a lot of the known work around polarity that many people in this world swim in. And he said something once on a call I was tuned into of the feminine decides when we're going to have sex, the masculine decides how. And so that only works though when the masculine is keeps bringing that energy towards, of like, oh, I love you, baby, you look so good. I would love to do this to you. I would love for us to have this experience shared from no expectations of when just the desires here, baby. The desires here, baby. This is what I would like to do. And then it's the feminine who decides like, yeah, oh yeah, I'm ready to open right now. Right. But the, the piece that often gets missed then is, you know, the man stops coming towards the feminine and that's the energetic that certainly happened in my relationship and that I've had to work towards, you know, so, and it can be as simple, you know, in my, in my relationship, I'll share it can be as simple as just like, letting her know in the morning, you know, I would. I would love to make love tonight. And then that gives her a whole day to feel into it. And it can be that simple. Right. It doesn't have to be these overtly huge gestures or something. It's just like, yeah, I'd really love to be with you.

Melanie Curtin: That's kind of hot. Yeah.

Jason Lange: And then there's, like. It percolates the whole day, and then it changes the energy.

Melanie Curtin: That's a great point about the setting of the stage and bringing that. You know, it's like cultivating. Cultivating a garden. I think I would also add that I do think there is a role for positive reinforcement of. You know, I remember wearing lingerie to bed, which I haven't always done in all my relationships. And there was a big contrast in one relationship. I wore, like, a bra and panty set, and he went crazy. He was like, all about. It felt really nourishing, and I was much more likely to do it again. And then there was one where I was really cold out, and so I wore a lingerie top and sweatpants, and I came over and I was like, do you like my outfit? Because I was kind of nervous about it. He was like, yeah, yeah. But he kept watching tv, and I felt really kind of dropped in that moment of like, oh, I guess that's not exciting to you. And so, of course, I was less likely to do it. So I do think there's a role for.

Jason Lange: Yeah.

Jason Lange: Totally. Yeah. I think that's a great, great place to end in terms of. Again, it's kind of creating the stage. Okay. I love it when this. When this happens. I love. I'm sharing the desire of what I love. And that often is what, you know, what we talk about in our training ignites the system and the masculine shares his desire. The whole space gets energized. But if we're not sharing our desire, it's pretty unlikely, right, that it's going to work. Because for a lot of women. Yeah. If we're not sharing our desire, does he still like me? Do I look fat? Like, what's. Like, all that kind of stuff kicks in of has his attention gone elsewhere? Is he about to break up with me? Like, it can be all kinds of different stuff that we can interpret, but when we're just constantly watering that garden, so to speak, things just work better.

Melanie Curtin: Yeah. And it is a relationship. It is a dance. There are two people involved. It's not all on you as the man. You know, there's two willing participants. And I think that example you gave of Violet sharing with you from the heart of, I give a shit about this relationship. So I'm telling you, I miss you. I miss your cock. I miss you. Coming towards me is a gift of her revealing her heart. Not in a shaming way, not in a. You piece of shit. Why aren't you doing this? But genuinely revealing. And then you meeting that. Right. There's a dance there. And that, to me, is healthy relationship. If you constantly feel like you're banging your head against the wall, that's not a healthy relationship. So, yeah, before we wrap, Jason did mention our training. We have a free training. If you're interested in going deeper than the podcast, you can find that at Evolutionary men slash training. Again, that's evolutionary men slash training. So if you've been looking for something else to kind of help you immerse yourself in this kind of topic, I would recommend that.

Jason Lange: Yeah, we'd love to support you.