How to Touch Women (with Elizabeth Anneka)

Jason Lange: All right, and welcome back, everyone. Today I'm excited to chat with Elizabeth Anika who is a touch coach for men, women and couples. From her first kiss at 16, Elizabeth has been obsessed with the art of physical intimacy. And a decade of solo world travel, certifications in NLP and transformational breathing and, and a genuine love for men fuel her no BS approach to touch connection and the gap between them. I am super excited to have her here with me today. We're going to be doing a workshop together in about a month and got connected to Elizabeth through a big men's conference I was recently at for the second year in a row. And as soon as we started talking, it just became very clear. A lot of overlap, a lot of cool stuff here. So welcome to the show, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth Anneka: Wow, Jason, what a wonderful introduction. Thank you so much for having me.

Jason Lange: Yeah, I'm so excited to have you here. And I want to kick off actually with part of what I said in the intro and that's you've been obsessed, right, with the art of physical intimacy since you were 16. That first kiss. And what did 16 year old Elizabeth notice that most people miss?

Elizabeth Anneka: Oh my gosh, this is my favorite question. Nobody's ever asked me this before. Thank you. I became obsessed with a perfect choreography of a makeout. And what that meant to me was this sounds so nerdy and I was a nerd and I am a nerd, but it was like optimizing all of the areas of our bodies. So my boyfriend was my 16 year old boyfriend. He was like the popular guy in school and I was super surprised to have bagged that, as they say, because I was not popular. I was nerdy and scholarly. But when he would make out with me, I wanted so much for him to use my clothes or like the seams of my clothes, run his hands around, you know, the, the sleeve of my shirt or under the bra strap before he would take off my bra just so that like it was, it was drawing it out. It was making this like perfect, perfect moment out of otherwise like a hasty sort of frenzied rush to the. Whatever the finish line was at that point. You know, it was probably just second base stuff until I was in my early 20s. But there was, there was this a sense that he was not optimizing my turn on and that. That's like a, that's a very, that is, it's still a very heady way of saying it. I wished so badly. I wished so much. And I would have these, I would have my daydreams in bed. And I would, I think a thought about making out with him all the time. Once we started making out, I couldn't think of anything else. I was completely focused and obsessed and I would just imagine these like kind of holographic images of what it could be. And then I would try and telepath that to him. And it didn't. Never worked. It never worked. He never got it. He never, he never. He never found those little crevices and nuances that I think. Yeah, I just don't think many people are aware of them. Consciously.

Jason Lange: Yeah. Oh, that's so beautiful. And I can see even in just how you named that, that's actually a desire a lot of the men I work with have of like, I kind of just wish there was a roadmap, you know. And obviously the challenge with that is every unique human being, particularly every feminine being, is totally different. Right. The way you interact with one partner might be different than another partner. The way you interact one day might feel completely different to her the next day. Right. But that, um. Part of what got me excited to talk with you here is. Well, we can't give you like a beat by beat exact sequence, but there's some general principles that it sounds like you've. You've kind of in some sense reverse engineered from your own experience as to what does kind of create that most conducive situation and optimized kind of for turn on. Exactly the place. One place I want to start here is you have this thing around the. The problem being skill and not desire. Could you speak to that a little bit?

Elizabeth Anneka: Sure, yeah. So I think that men have a desire, a strong desire to provide a lot of pleasure for women. I think that that is something we don't give men the benefit of the doubt on. In a very general sense. Like, I think that women have this opinion of men as they just want to get off. Like they just want their own pleasure when it comes to sex. And I think, you know, we could discuss the different age ranges of men. I think that that stereotype probably applies more appropriately to men that are in their 20s, that are really fueled by testosterone and the imperative to. To spread the seed. When I see men that get in, especially over mid-30s, 40, they're. They're converted that drive into an actual genuine desire to see women in the most amount of pleasure they can possibly be in. And I believe that men have an understanding, not consciously perhaps, that the women's access to pleasure, to the rolling phases of pleasure is unique to. Is unique in. In in the form and they. That women are incredibly lucky that we have this ability to just be in these rolling waves of pleasure and orgasm, even if it doesn't end in climax. It's like this heightened expanse that's depthless, breathless, destinationless. So the desire is there. Men want to provide that, they want to facilitate that. They want to be the ones who said I did that. Like, I helped her get there. Like, those are my hands, those are my lips. I was the one in the room. And the, the. The gap there. Because then this other stereotype is so strong is that women are not getting the kind of. That sort of. They're not accessing that, they're not achieving that. Men are not bringing them that level of pleasure for the most part. So these two, like I have the belief that that there's a desire is there. And then the stereotype very much shows that the skill is not present. So willingness and competency are two different things. And I want to be careful here because I think men, it's very easy to throw men under the bus here and be like, well, you guys want it really badly, but you can't do it. You can't ever do it. You know, and it just. For most men out there, if you're getting naked with a woman at all, you're doing great. Like I'm. I like that's your congratulations. It is not an easy thing to create an environment where a woman wants to get naked with a man. And so if you're doing that, give yourself a little pat on the back as it is. And then know that you're probably already doing a lot of things well. And what I believe is that there's a terror. There's a huge expanse of information that is very easily accessed with just a few pillars and prompts and redirections that I can give you that take her from like, eh, it's cool. Like, it's. It's okay. You know, I wouldn't kick him out of bed if he was eating crackers to. I cannot stop thinking about him. I want him in me all the time. I don't ever want to have his mouth away from mine. Get that man back inside me right away. And that's a world of difference to her. And it's a world of difference to you as the man in the room.

Jason Lange: Yeah, that's so beautiful. And a lot of the work I work with men around one of the pain points that this is kind of how I would language it, but it's deeply related. There is not knowing how to open their woman. Right. So that experience of, yeah, how do I actually take her from that place where she's just kind of in her day to day life and have her open her heart, her body so all that pleasure, connection and emotion really can come through. And that gap is often quite painful of, you know, like you said, just being in relationship. I think oftentimes we sometimes just stumble across it. It's like, oh, hey, that night was amazing. Right. Something happened there, but we don't understand why and how to create that regularly. And what I hear you speaking to is understanding some frameworks and tools that are going to create more likely conditions for her to open and have that kind of experience and really feel that draw in that polarity.

Elizabeth Anneka: Yeah, I think I've been, this is a, a, a thing that's been coming through my brain recently that I've, I've thought a lot and I wish men knew that. The way that the world is, does not make women very turned on. It does. It is not conducive to what women being in a state of wanting to be penetrated. We, we, most women especially, especially the, the alpha ones of us who are running our businesses and getting shit done and raising children and making sure that the, the PTA moms like us and we're making the right things for the snacks and the blah, blah, blah, blah. That level of project management is very doing, It's a very doing, forceful, like you think about. That's, that, that's the penetrating energy. That's great. Men, men, you guys, when you're doing that, it makes sense that you would want to continue that and be the doing, be the, the piercer, the print, the penetrator. For her to be penetrated, which is essentially the most, the deepest kind of opening you can have energetically or physically, that has to be a receptive state. And this is where I think that the, you know, the archetypes of the feminine, the masculine, like actually become tangibly useful. Like literally she has to be able to receive something into her vagina, the cavity of her body, that the energy in which to do that, the state that, that a woman has to be in, is completely opposite. It is antithetical to everything that the world, that life that, the capitalism, that our rush toward the top or the bottom as you have it, or the individuation of society, that it is completely contrary to everything about the way the world is. So if you're with a woman in the Western world, she probably, especially if she's in her adult or you know, her Post mid life years where she's. Where life is really like really quite in a real way, a challenge. She has to actively get herself in a state that is soft and feminine and receptive to you. And you can help her do that in a number of ways. And I'm sure that much of what you teach Jason is right along this, this road, but the idea that just because you're good at it and she likes it with you and you care about her, those are all amazing. That's. Don't change that. But just. But know that there is this next. There's this, this thing that has to happen for her and it's much harder than it looks. Yeah, it's much harder than it would seem.

Jason Lange: That's beautifully put. And I think something a lot of us men miss in just the way our nervous systems are wired, our sexuality is wired and that. Yeah, we're. If we're masculine oriented beings in a masculine culture, we're not having to gear shift in quite the same way to get into a sexual or relational moment. Like the feminine is who's. Yeah, like you said, having to go really against the grain of a whole system and culture and pace and just all of it that is not particularly conducive to softening of any kind. So the capacity to create that container, that space to help help her soften in transition is really important.

Elizabeth Anneka: Yes. And I think then there's something like. I always go to specifics when I can. And my wish for men is if you are looking for a way to do that, practically take something off of her plate and do it competently and manage it for her so that she. It's not, it's not. There's no oversight from her on. On it for you. That's just an easy way of being, of acknowledging how much that is, is being done by her in this department and then literally relieving some of the stuff on her plate. As I say it, I'm like, oh, wow. Like, wow.

Jason Lange: Yeah. And so one of the simplest but most potent I think, teachings you have that, that I really want to get across here. You called the bullseye mismatch.

Elizabeth Anneka: Yeah.

Jason Lange: And so, yeah, walk us through that. Because this, I think in some lingua, some sense, this is kind of like a matrix moment. Just like.

Elizabeth Anneka: Oh.

Jason Lange: And a lot of things can become very clear for men right off the bat just by this.

Elizabeth Anneka: Yeah. Cool. Okay, thank you. That's lovely. I feel excited by the challenge of it being a matrix moment. Yeah. So I think about, I think that the bullseye Is a. Is this circle is concentric circles. The inner one is red, then I believe the next one is blue, and then the outer one is yellow. If you go for prototypical bullseyes. So what if you think about putting a bullseye on a woman's body, I actually kind of articulate. There's sort of two bullseyes. One is on her chest and one is on her vagina. And she's got say, like an concentric circles outside of that men go for. They're. They're most focused on the. In the center of her bullseye. They want to make sure that the vagina moment happens. And they would really want to touch her boobs and her butt. You know, kind of. I call it tits, ass and pussy tap. So their focus is very driven toward the inter. The her most sensitive places that are most difficult for her to actually become trusting and turned on by like basically trusting or turned on by because she could trust. So she actually really wants the bullseyes touched in the concentric circles from outer to inner. She wants to be, you know, I say like contacted, accessed, touched. Literally just touched on the outer parts of her body and turned on in the outer parts of her body where she can start to gauge that his. He's reading the animal of her body well. And then that lets her understand that the internal parts of her. Her legs can open, her. Her arms can, you know, come down. So her bra. Her bra comes off like things like this. She can like actually relax and soften from the exterior inward. So the mismatch happens. Because if you put a bullseye on a man's body around his crotch, that's where he wants to make sure gets touched first. Like hit. That's the focus. Like, I definitely, like, I'm happy to do all this other stuff if she needs to, but please just let me know that I'm going to get laid tonight. Please just let me know that this is going to be a sure thing at the end of the day, you know. So his sense of focus there is what I think drives men to, you know, proceed right to the. The middle of the gui. And the soft, gooey middle, but it actually is. Is the least conducive thing because the faster you go there, the. The more likely she is to either shut down, literally, like call it off, like, no, no, no, you, you know, stop it. You're not doing it right. Or shut down unconsciously and just kind of go either into fro freeze or fawn where you. You lose. You lose that actual, like, levity. And liberty and loveliness that you're there for. Really. So, yeah, that's the bullseye mismatch. And so I, what I, what I, what I want men to realize is that you have a lot. You personally, you guys really want your woman to touch your genitals. So especially that makes sure. You make sure that that gets done because you don't, you don't want to go without, you know, sex. If you can, you can have it. But if you, I mean, it's just, it's so trite. But like, you know, patience is, Patience is a much, a much invoked. A much invoked quality that I think men believe that they have. And I think especially, you know, good men believe that they are patient and many of them really are in the way that they touch. But the visual of the bullseye should give you like an actual, like waypoints on your way toward the. We'll call it a goal, even though we know we don't. We know we don't want to hold it as such. Does that make sense?

Jason Lange: Yeah, absolutely.

Elizabeth Anneka: Is that the bullseye mismatch? Yeah, it's a, it's an unfortunate.

Jason Lange: Again, oftentimes I think for us men, it's mapping what works for us on our partners.

Elizabeth Anneka: That.

Jason Lange: Right. You know, I don't know who came up with a metaphor. You might know, but the, you know, in some sense, male sexuality is like a blowtorch. Just, it's on. Here we go. And female sexuality is more like a crock pot. It has to keep warming and opening, and it can be going for a long time. And in some sense, you know, I think the difference is, like you said, the rolling waves, the capacity of the feminine. Like, I don't know if there's a limit to how open a woman can become because obviously her body opens, but then her heart opens, her emotions open, her spirit opens, and that can just keep going to some extent to infinity. But for men, to an extent, it's like you're hard or you're not. It's like a, It's a bit of a binary in some sense. And I think we map that of. Well, that's. I'm ready to go. Like, shouldn't she be ready to go in that? The ring metaphor, I think is so, you know, another way I would just frame that is like warming up, right? Starting. Starting slow on the outside, allowing the body to relax, to transition, to not just go right for it, which I've certainly been guilty of that in the past. And, you know, I'm just thinking out loud here but for a way for men to sometimes get it, I think this is kind of maybe one of the mismatches sometimes that I actually think a lot of men are the same emotionally. We need to be, we need time to warm up emotionally. So if our partner's like, you know, tell me what's, what do you feel like, what's good? What like I'm still in work mode. Like I need to transition to where I can become vulnerable and talk about my insides. And obviously this is a generalization, but I think the feminine is often ready to go there right away just like, oh, let's talk, let's get into the what are you feeling? What's going on? And if you're a man, you know, just to think about that, that's kind of the equivalent and more honestly that their bodies have to go through. But I guess to some extent that is one of the challenges a lot of men have is culturally we are not allowed to be emotionally soft. And so we have to. A lot of the training I do with men is saying, hey, no, you actually can. And there's a lot of forces that want you to close down in order to be a man. But that, that I think just that mismatch alone, that again, it's not that women don't want to be touched there, but 0 to 60 is often creates closure. Right. It's like too fast. The body can't quite open that fast. So the bullseye analogy I think is really potent. And you know, I am curious because, you know, more and more of the guys that work with me are in long term marriages and they've been together with partners for a long time and you know, it's. Again, I've had to work against it in my marriage but you know, kind of get to the point number of years in where it's kind of the, well, I put my hand on her butt and that signals I want sex. And you know, it's not great. Like she doesn't really get opened by that in a sense. But you know, through your experiences or what you've seen with clients, you know, what, what might ring by ring look like in a long term relationship?

Elizabeth Anneka: Gosh, that sounds like a super fun thing to think about. Yeah. So I think about touch as being like basic. Like there are virtually an unlimited permutations of touch effectively. I mean, so yes, a hand on the butt is. A hand on the butt is a great example. Right. Like it at first, it's at first, when she, when he first starts doing it, it's like she's like, ooh, like he, like he likes me and oh, he's, oh, he's interested and oh, he's like into this and he's letting me know. And he's doing the thing, right? He's doing the thing we all know you're supposed to do is that foreplay starts in the kitchen or foreplay starts at 8am or whatever, you know,

Jason Lange: and

Elizabeth Anneka: then that particular signal, okay, so we can actually start, start thinking about it neurologically. Our brains are, Our brains are designed to mute the things that are reoccurring, to mute things that we, that we. That are. That happen so frequently, we don't need to pay attention to them anymore. Okay. So then, you know, a couple weeks go by, a couple months go by, a couple of years go by and the, but signal does not be, is no longer interesting. The brain has converted it into normal, like not, not exciting. Not something that she's scanning and picking up in an interesting way. And then as I feel into it, there's actually a way where it can get coded as resentment because he's, because she's like, oh, he thinks that he's just gonna get some if he touches my butt. And so now he, now she, now she's got a reason to be pissed about the butt, the butt grab or the butt, the butt fondle as a. And she want. Now, now she wants something totally different. She's, you know, she's been watching or reading romance novels about how men grab the back of women's hair and like, you know, kiss them in certain ways or grab them by the wrists and push them up against the wall. And you know, so many things, right. There's so many other things that she's now probably way more receptive to and that, that thing in long term relationships. I think that the thing about long term relationships is that much of what is good about them and the other person gets muted because our brains are doing a version of what I, what I described. And then you're actually spending a lot. You're a lot more of your awareness is on what is not good, what is not working, what is not in. In all departments, physical and emotional and financial and all the things. So if I were a guy in a long term relationship and assuming that most of my relationship is doing well, like there's not acrimony in, in other areas, what I would do is I would watch. So what I, one of my class, in one of my classes, what I do is I have men like step into the experience of a woman like Step into the. Try in, try on, like, step into the shoes of the physical experience of another woman. And if you do that, and it takes some practice because it's not. It's not an immediate. It's not an immediate Jedi mind trick, but it. It does come. It's not actually that complicated. You can sort of see. You can put your. Put your body like her body is, and see if you can think to yourself, where would I want to be touched? So I use the one. The example of a pregnant woman. If you send. If you. If you step into the experience of a pregnant woman immediately, you'll understand that her lower back's tight. Just like in a second, you'll. You'll realize, like, her lower back is tight, her pelvis is tilted forward, et cetera. So that kind of a thing, like, stand how your woman's standing, do the things she does. Hold your body like she holds her body. And then see where. Where on her body could you touch? That might be fun for you and cool for her. And I'll give you some hints. The inner. The inner forearm is really, really, really great. The inner forearm is like this gold mine. It's usually accessible, unless it's Lexus, like, bundled up in winter. It's incredibly sensitive. It actually suggests a lot that is very sensual. Her hair. Even though she might have. She might have gotten it in her head that you do not know how to touch her hair well, because most men do not know how to touch women's hair very well. But if you take a. Take a hair touching class or come to my. Come to my program, that is an area that most women are just wait. And it's basically like a gold mine of what is possible for a woman. On her scalp. So anything. I mean, you could touch the back of her elbow. You could. Oh, God, Jaz. The possibilities are endless. As long as you. As long as you dream. I don't know. It sounds so. Yeah. Just let your fingers do the walking. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I would say to somebody who's doing the same kind of touch over and over is that it's love. That it probably got coded. Yeah.

Jason Lange: Yeah. I mean, what I hear there to some extent is. And there's a lot of research, Right. Novelty and just expanding your palate. Right. So expanding the palette and that process of put yourself in her body, that's really attunement, Right. Like, attuned to what is her experience right now and can you feel into that and what might open her in some sense? Right. Like. Oh, yeah. Just a little connection on the arm. Wow. We have never done that before. Right. That's gonna turn something on potentially that maybe hasn't been turned on in a while. So I really, really love the, the simplicity of that.

Elizabeth Anneka: Yeah. And I do just want to say again, this thing or offer another little bit of a guidance on the feeling into her body thing because I think actually it sounds like it should be really easy, but I think this is the thing that men have trouble with is like, well, okay, like what do. What would she want? I don't know that. Like, I don't. I'm not her. Okay. So try holding her chin. Try holding her chin and lifting her head up to yours. Try kissing her on her. In the middle of her forehead. And when she's. If she's at some level of. And this one. Use her clothes. Use her clothes to direct your touch. So if I was your. If I was your woman and I'm wearing that or I'm sorry, if this is an audio, you won't see it, but I'm wearing like a, you know, know a shoulder, a sh. A sleeve that stops on my shoulder. So you could run your hand under the seam of where my sleeve ends, whether it's on my forearm or my shoulder or my wrist. You could do that around this. The hem of her shirt on her. On her waist. If she's partially naked, do it on any part of her lingerie. And make sure that if her lingerie is pretty or lacy that you marvel at it because it was expensive and it's probably uncomfortable. And so she's wearing it for you.

Jason Lange: Yeah.

Elizabeth Anneka: So yeah, they're like, use her. Her clothes are a great clue. And then basic. A lot of. Anything on the face is really usually a great win for women because it indicates preciousness, protection. She feels special, she feels seen. Like all this stuff, especially in a long term relationship. That's usually what. What is the feeling that women are lacking is that they're seen and appreciated by their partners.

Jason Lange: Oh, that's beautiful. And so another piece I want to make sure to get to and this. We'll be spending some more time on the workshop. We'll be talking about here at the end. The breath compass. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about what this is and why it's so important.

Elizabeth Anneka: Yeah. So this is the kind of foundational thing that I teach. It's how I got into this work. I was. I had dated many men from different cultures and I noticed that they all escalated touch and intimacy in the same way. And that was the kind of what I alluded to at the beginning with the 16 year old self, which was harried and frenzied and it was missing a lot of the components that I would put into a really perfect makeout. So I didn't think that, I didn't think I was going to do anything about that except, you know, you know, ask where it was appropriate to, to receive different kind of touch. But then I dated a man who had taught himself how to use a woman's breath as a compass for her turn on. And that was amazing. It was way more than amazing. I can't even really convey how incredible it was and what it did for a sense of pleasure in my body. But he had had to do it because a partner before me had not ever, ever, I believe, orgasmed or had a really difficult time orgasming, even with herself. She wasn't able to describe to him how to do it, how to get her there. So he had had to look for different data points. And he was a scientist, so he was very good at creating data points. And what he, what he did was he would notice how she breathed as he touched her and use gauging her intuitness or her lack of intuitness from her breath, he would adjust his touch. And so essentially he would start, start doing something that she liked and he would notice what her breathing pattern was and then he'd change it a little bit, you know, faster, harder, scratchier, whatever. And if her breath either, you know, basically became more intense in some way, it quickened, deepened, held, then he'd, he was on to something that, that there was a, a delight there or like an intrigue, he would do it more. And then inevitably what happens is if you do the same touch for a while, no matter how pleasurable it was at the beginning, the brain does what it does and it starts to desensitize that touch. And the, the, her breath, her breathing will plateau. And when her breathing plateaus, you now know to go onto a different kind of a touch. And if the thing you started, if the, if the thing that was, that was the initial touch is not the, or the first thing you try is not that great, you just go back to the last thing that was great and you do that. So essentially he's like making little forking roads of decisions. It's just like one do, like if this, you know, if, if deepen one, if not deepen zero. If like it one, if not like it zero. And he's just making little data sets all over a body and it's so simple. It's so simple. And the. The wonderful things about it are that you don't. She doesn't have to try to consciously show you with her moans or her movements what she wants you to stay with more or what she wants you to move on from faster. And so what I noticed this. And this is the. I think the thing I want to get across to men is that a woman can orgasm. A woman can climax and it not actually be that pleasurable. Like, I know it sounds really weird, but like a climax can actually feel quite like forced and sort of pressured and like. Like just kind of like, oh, like what's happening there? Oh, my God. It's kind of like a really crazy roller coaster. Like. And there's actually a feeling of like there's. It's just not. It's just not as great as I think the media wants us to kind of assume that all orgasms are. But what is unbelievably incredible is to be in a fully surrendered, released state so that she's not like. Every ounce, every amount, every quotient of pleasure that's possible within her skin at any given moment is fully actualized. That's actually, I think, what women want. I don't actually think women are as obsessed with climaxing as men think they are. With some caveats. I think that, you know, women who. Who feel like they cannot or have not or have not been given the chance to are focused and obsessed with it, and they should be. But orgasm, I think, is. Should be the. The bar is. That. Should be the bar. The low bar. Like the. The orgasms are like the lowest. The lowest bar in my world. Like, it's the kind of orgasms where she is not blown out from her body. It's the kind of orgasms that she is along for the entire time. It's the kind of orgasms that. That roll and deepen and spread and expand beyond everything she's ever known. And she forgets her name and your name and she wakes up panting and goes, how did you learn to do that? Where did you learn to do that? And that's what the breath does. The breath is this. It's a. It's a navigational instrument of the most beautiful kind of pleasure that you can lead a woman through.

Jason Lange: Fan. Fantastic. And so powerful. Because I just want to. You named it here. Contextualize it from polarity sense. Because this does come up in men I work with, right? Who I. I want to give her pleasure, right? And I. I don't Necessarily know how yet. And so particularly nice guys, I think sometimes can get obsessed with. My God, is this super pleasurable for her? Is this okay? Is this not okay? And it comes out verbally and right to. To answer verbally, like, hey, is this okay? More of this, you know, that's better than, you know, how sex goes for a lot of people. So I'm not saying that that's bad, you know, but like you said, that's the floor. The challenge with that is you have to activate a part of your brain that is not surrendered to take a perspective on what am I feeling right now and how do I want to communicate that In a very tiny way. It is stepping into your. Your directive energy, right, Your masculine energy. I have to report on my experience. What you're saying is by us men learning to attune to the breath. She doesn't have to do that. She's already giving feedback with her body. Our job is just to tune into that. Okay. Does this motion open her, deepen her breath, excite her? Does it brace her? Does her breath get shallow? Not in the good way, but in the, like, oh, there's less breath there. And so I'm going to adjust, right, without having to slow down and kind of interrupt the moment, so to speak. And then the way you tied that into. I love that. Orgasm should be the floor, not the ceiling. I think also ties into, again, like you said, that bullseye thing where for a lot of men it's like, well, our pleasure is an orgasm versus the recontextualization that I think for the feminine, a lot of times there's so much more pleasure than that available. And that's just like one tiny thing. But learning to connect over skin or even just breath, right? Just the power of breath together can be so potent. Another reason I imagine this is so powerful, because what you're teaching is attunement to her breath, which then you can learn to work that in all kinds of powerful ways. And what in your words and what you've seen with men, what becomes possible for a man when he starts to be able to use her breath as a compass?

Elizabeth Anneka: Good question. So many great things. Because if he's. If he's being aware of hers, he's also aware of his. Like, there. There is an innate. There's just an innate awareness there that cannot be, like, missed. He can't really go around that. So he's already going to be attuned or more in tune with his own breathing, which is, you know, you and I have spoken about the breath is the, the, it's the also. It's not just the most, the infallible demonstration of another person's nervous system, but it's the infallible way to get present in our own. The breath is the, the one thing that is happening within us that is present, always present, always, always present. So if he's paying attention to her breath, he's paying attention to his breath, then he is also not paying attention to this large amorphous goal out there in the future of getting her to come in air quotes. I'm gonna make. Make her come is such an aggressive phrase for what we're trying to convey. Like I'm gonna make her come. Ugh. He's, he's. His retinas are right sized. So he's look, he's now, he's looking at her breath. He's now looking for evidence in her body and her body changes that are way more minute. And when he's doing that, then he's his. This focus that men have, that like the focus brain isn't trying to get her somewhere. It's not trying to get her body to do something, to go somewhere, to experience something. It's actually just putting this laser like incredible quality of a man's attention on her, on her and the smallest changes that she has. And if there's like that is, that's a benefit to him, that's a benefit to you as a man. I'm thinking very, very clearly about what the benefit is to a woman. But the benefit to you to, for that, for you as a man is that the pressure to get her somewhere is gone. You're actually just paying attention to something that is real there in front of you and you're playing with it. You're just going like, oh, cool, like, let me try this now. Okay, that didn't do what I wanted it to do. Okay, cool. I'm going to try this now. Oh, okay. Now I don't have things to try. So now I'm going to go back to what I did that worked and I'm going to just make it faster, make it a little bit da da, da da. Make it a different, slightly different thing. So you actually have like, it's basically becomes literally play like you're playing with a woman's body, which is way more fun than trying to drive her toward this shoot of, of an experience that feels like pressure to you. And for what it's worth, it's pressure to her. Like women feel so much pressure to come and, and it's it just doesn't do anything good for anybody.

Jason Lange: Yeah, I love that. Because another way, I'll kind of frame that for the benefit for us men.

Elizabeth Anneka: Yes.

Jason Lange: I mean, the word you named is so potent, removing the pressure of, oh, I have to know what to do versus, oh, I just get to run experiments and play and then pay attention. Yes, Run experiments, play, pay attention. And that. The beauty of breath and why I think this is so amazing, it's your kind of central teaching is it only happens in the present. Right. So if I'm paying attention to my partner's breath, like you said, I have to be aware of my breath. That only happens in the moment. And guess what? If my attention is there, guess where it's not? Not up in my head. I can't be ruminating what's the right thing to do. How do I. Da, da, da, da.

Elizabeth Anneka: Right?

Jason Lange: So you're literally taking your attention into a more embodied place that's just moment by moment. And like you said, the magic of that is whether or not orgasm matters. Doesn't matter, because for the feminine, the pleasure is complete presence and attention from a partner. Like, wow, this person is fully with me right now. And I can feel that. Right. I mean, even as a man, I can feel it. When I get to. When someone has their full presence on me, it's pleasurable. It's like, oh, wow. Yeah, great. So this works on so many levels in terms of getting men out of their heads, giving them permission to not have to know how to do it. Also, I think, like, like I was saying, blows up the script route of, well, I learned how to do this thing, now I have to do this thing.

Elizabeth Anneka: And then.

Jason Lange: So first I do this, then I do this, then I do this. Because like you said, the beauty of the breath is. Yeah, that touch might have worked yesterday. Today, that same touch actually doesn't lead to that breath. Okay, so what does? I get to experiment. I get to play. It's so much more present and in the moment, in a. In a sense, and so powerful. And, you know, a lot of the work I do with men is just on our side, learning to even tune into our own breath. Then we can start to become often much more present to a partner's breath. But it really is the gateway to so much because it's, you know, it's magic, in a sense. I love that central teaching of yours and how it. It's like just by just learning to pay attention to that, in some sense, there's nothing to do. You're just Being present with her breath.

Elizabeth Anneka: Exactly. Yes. It's so well said. I really appreciate you naming the thing about pulling out of the head too, because that's one that I do say, but I've forgotten this time. And just like what you've just rearticulate. It is incredible. And I would, I love that you've just framed it in all the ways that it's great for the man in, in the moment. And I think that it would be so much more fun, as you say, to just like, be like, hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make the most beautiful creatures on the planet, basically have limitless pleasure. All you have to do is just pay attention to them. Like you get to be naked with them and you just have to pay attention to them and you got to touch their bodies. Is that going to be fine? You're gonna. Are you like that? And every guy would go, yes, I want that. I want that. I want to be naked with a woman exploring her body. That's what I want. And it's like, that's actually what really good sex feels like when you have it. It's like that there. You don't. Yeah, it's just, it's so, actually just so native and so simple and so delightful and so lovely and so incredible and so soft and so connected when you have, when you, when you're, when you're writing that vein and it's when it's just that really, unfortunately there are so many weird pressures and stigmas and sort of invisible social agreements that we're all sort of acting out when we're naked in bed with each other that are just so, take. So, so well designed to take us away from that very simple native enjoyment of just being naked with somebody else and enjoying their body.

Jason Lange: Oh, I love it. So, so aligned and so excited that you're going to be able to bring a deeper cut of this to. So we're going to be leading. Well, you're going to be leading a workshop and I'm going to be supporting. On August 10th at pm Pacific, Elizabeth is going to take you guys deeper into some of what she's talking about here and particularly this breath thing that can be such a game changer and is why I'm like, okay, this needs to happen. This is something I wish I'd had 20 years ago.

Elizabeth Anneka: Right. In terms of.

Jason Lange: Oh, yeah, great. That's the education we don't get. Right. I think another thing we didn't talk about is most men are coming in and their education is porn. And it's not how life works. It's just not for the guy or the woman, frankly. It's not how our anatomy often works. It's not how Urs does. And so what you've learned laid out here is a different pathway. And so if you're a man listening or if you're a woman listening and you know a man who might be served by this, just send them over to evolutionarymen Touch. And there's all the information about how you can register there. And as we close out here, I think we'll definitely have to do another one of these. Sometimes I feel like we just barely scratched the surface. But how. What's the best way other than coming to the workshop for men to get to know you and more of what you're up to?

Elizabeth Anneka: Sure, yeah. So my website is very simple. It's howtotouchwomen.com and I've got a free guide on there for men and for women. For men, it's essentially a guide on how to do what we talked about with the breath, using the breath as a compass for her turn on for women, I've got how to ask for what you want in bed as a free guide. And then every couple of weeks I have a free talk, a free, like just conversation, like a happy hour for men on some nights and women on other nights to just talk about touch, physical intimacy. How's it going? There's different themes and different things that we drop into about that. And if you're on my website, you'll notice that there's. There are workshops that I offer as well as a program called the Art of touch Academy. And that is my library of information for men on everything from on how to reframe rejection and use it as an information gathering tool to how to take off a bra to where to touch her when she's in missionary. Like all the things about every. Every level and stage of physical intimacy, from handshake to horizontal.

Jason Lange: That's great. Well, thank you so much, Elizabeth. And I'm looking forward to diving in with you on August 10th and until next time,